Lemming Mafia - Mini 1196

[mikemike778]

Game stagnation, so I'll do a list of 4. Random.org choose:

Jedo the Jedi
Llamafluff
Oversoul
me=weird

If you were alive with these four players, list 2-3 people as scum and why.

Of these 4,

Llama - discussed him plenty recently but fair to say he'd be one of the 2-3 people.

Me=W - dunno maybe I've missed something obvious but I don't see any reason why he should be considered town. Defensive play and reactionary play day 1, bizarre choice of role block, on both the wagons that led to town lynches. Still got a moderate scum read on him regardless of Llama's wailing and second on this list although not sure how well he fits with a Llama/Mal scum team - he doesn't really but can figure that out later.

Oversoul - been pretty much in the background, not much he can do about it but CMAR's play early doors is pretty incriminating, refusing to answer questions is my biggest scumtell and he (CMAR) did that as blatantly as I've ever seen anyone do (at least Llama had the decency to try and wriggle out of them).

Jedi - not really had any sort of read of him recently. If I'm right with Malp and Llama then at the risk of WIFOM here, it looks to risky for Llama to bus Jedi here. And if he was going to bus him to get some kind of town cred - then it'd have to be with some sort of case. So on that basis, he wouldn't make my list.

[LlamaFluff]

Seemed pretty straight forward - why wouldn't I pick him ?

It was known no one died N1, two RBs were claimed. One of the RBed player dies, other is alive. Now I don't know about you, but I was thinking "Oh, M=W must have blocked Hydra-scum", that means M=W is town and Hydra is scum.

You however didn't think this, which I don't get. There was no obvious doctor unless you were actually looking for one in which you would have probably found TOG. I mean, as bodyguard I probably would have been on M=W last night. After the doc claim he isnt QUITE as obviously town, but still, I call him town. You for whatever reason blocked him.

@hydra - I would vote oversoul out of that list today. After looking at JJ more thats all out of that list.

[Me=Weird]

I've mostly been skimming up to this page and 44, so if I missed anything important, tell me.
I understand why mike is getting heat for not blocking chuji, but why isn't oversoul? Is it just because he got cement and concrete mixer wasn't confirmed? Furthermore, if mike is under heat for not blocking obvious choice chuji, why is nobody voting chuji?
Shadow, why such a strong reaction oversoul? Don't you agree that towniest people should get those?
Out of those four, 3 if you don't count myself, I'd vote llama or jedo, in that order. llama hasn't done much at all in the way of scumhunting, jedo less solid reasons, i.e gut/scumvibes. Plus llama feels like bussing.

If he was scum then obvious choice for the Night Kill

Except I wouldn't be, because it was universally agreed the role-blocks go to me and mal.
Are you still going on about the role-block choice?

[Me=Weird]

EBWOP: About being on both town lynches, so was mal, chuji, and jedo.

[farside22]

Mission Cards:

Fedora
bookie
Payoff
Cement
shooter
Limo
Jackhammer
Concrete Mixer
Hammer

Order of picking:

mikemike778
Oversoul
Chuji Kunisada
Shadow Dancer
Jedo the Jedi
TOGTFO
Llamafluff
malpascp
me=weird

Vote count:

Mikemike (2) Llamafluff, Shadow Dancer
malpascp (1) Mikemike
Llamafluff (1) Jedo the Jedi

With 9 players it take 5 to lynch
Day 3 deadline is August 17, 8:30 PM PST

mikemike

can pick at any time.

Oversoul

picking a mission. Next person to pick in under 12 hours

[LlamaFluff]

I understand why mike is getting heat for not blocking chuji, but why isn't oversoul? Is it just because he got cement and concrete mixer wasn't confirmed? Furthermore, if mike is under heat for not blocking obvious choice chuji, why is nobody voting chuji?

TOG claimed to have doc'ed him N1.

This is exactly why Mike is scum though for his choice. The town reaction going into last night is that M=W must have blocked Hydra-scum night one. Yet Mike decides to block M=W, the only claimed person who could have stopped a kill. That is what I dont get here.

Also there is his attack on ani for pushing on the ongoing game link, which sadly is very standard for ani. Then the back and forth on Peregrine really bugs me, especially since he eventually decides on Malp. However at deadline, he joins malp in voting Peregrine who he appeared to have a very slight town read on when there was no need to do such given deadline lynch rules.

Need to really look at this more with removal of M=W and TOG from the equation as there might be some things that are able to be ruled out.

Big thing I have against malp-scum at this point is that his team basically needs to be in (oversoul-hydra-JJ) which does make sense... this really annoying.

[mikemike778]

If he was scum then obvious choice for the Night Kill

Except I wouldn't be, because it was universally agreed the role-blocks go to me and mal.
Are you still going on about the role-block choice?

Night 2 when I went blocking.

EBWOP: About being on both town lynches, so was mal, chuji, and jedo.

I know - Malp is on my scum list, I've discussed Jedi. Unlike Lama I don't over-rely on VCA for my logic but it obviously has to be considered. Not sure about Chuji.

Seemed pretty straight forward - why wouldn't I pick him ?

It was known no one died N1, two RBs were claimed. One of the RBed player dies, other is alive. Now I don't know about you, but I was thinking "Oh, M=W must have blocked Hydra-scum", that means M=W is town and Hydra is scum.

You however didn't think this, which I don't get. There was no obvious doctor unless you were actually looking for one in which you would have probably found TOG. I mean, as bodyguard I probably would have been on M=W last night. After the doc claim he isnt QUITE as obviously town, but still, I call him town. You for whatever reason blocked him.

@hydra - I would vote oversoul out of that list today. After looking at JJ more thats all out of that list.

If you are town then your problem is you get too blinkered and think one thing, lock it down as fact and work on stuff from there. Gullible springs to mind. If scum you are incredibly dangerous given you are trying to wrap everyone round your finger ... tbf if you are scum and it works I'll be pretty impressed.

There were 12 players in the game most of which have some sort of non-vanilla role - the chances of not a single one having a protective element - virtually zero. Giving someone a guaranteed pass based on they claimed (unproven) a role block is pretty stupid really.

Not only that but if MeW was scum then how do we know he actually blocked the hydra anyway given his justification for doing so was bollocks ?

Fact is it was a zero risk move to block him - we lose nothing in terms of info or power and could have potentially gained a scum-find and blocked a kill. There's no other pick you could say that about other than Malp who is being blocked anyway.

[mikemike778]

Also there is his attack on ani for pushing on the ongoing game link, which sadly is very standard for ani. Then the back and forth on Peregrine really bugs me, especially since he eventually decides on Malp. However at deadline, he joins malp in voting Peregrine who he appeared to have a very slight town read on when there was no need to do such given deadline lynch rules.

I've never played with Ani before ... daft point.

Since when did I have a town read on Pere, are you making this up as you go along. Malp and Ani were my first choices but there was no support for them so instead of wasting my vote put it on Pere as he seemed more likely scum than Taz. Pere was always the likely lynch so if I was scum why would I put my name on the wagon for no good reason.

In fact ...

lets get this straight.

MeW blocks his town-read for no apparent reason
Lama decides he's town

Malp blocks his town-read for no apparent reason which leads to a mislynch
Lama decides he's town and we aren't mislynching (although seems to be bread crumbing a 'well I wasn't sure' comeback which has been noted and just confirms your scumminess if Malp flips scum)

I block my scum read
Lama decides I'm scum because I don't agree with him

Lama logic is just getting ridiculous, has to stop. And does anyone for a second buy the utter crap about his JJ vote.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Llama

[Chuji Kunisada]

I think we've gotten enough information for this.

Myself
Shadow
TOG
Mal

Only the above respond to the following. Anyone else attempting to influence their decision one way, or another, is scum:

Am I just about confirmed town (as in, you will not lynch me) if I claim that I have a guilty result on someone, and they flip scum?
Would shadow be confirmed town if he gave me a role (inventor of sorts), and it made me a 1-shot cop that got a guilty on someone?
Would TOG be confirmed town if he used a doc ability on a town player (If I am confirmed town, then my kill wasn't RB'd, therefore the doc protect is the reason for the no kill)?
Would Mal be confirmed town if there is confirmed scum on his wagon yesterday (scum wouldn't run up one of their own to distance from a mislynch)?

I want the answers to these questions, as if we all agree and are correct in agreeing, town has won the game. I will not reveal who I got a guilty on until a plan is agreed on by the above, to avoid a possible quicklynch. For if we agree to lynch only those who are not listed above, scum's hiding places are severely hampered and scumhunting can limit it to only 3 players (of which 2 must be scum, and we get 1 mislynch before lylo).

[Shadow Dancer]

Uh... OK... I guess this is a moment where I just let you know I am still here (i.e. prod dodge) and then shut and watch further things unravel...

[Shadow Dancer]

shut up... I mean..

[Shadow Dancer]

OH, I see, you ask

us

from your list and not every one else... Whatever...

Yes I agree - safe the mal point. That seems a bit weak to me... Nut I'd have to reevaluate that point once I know who said guilty result is.

[Shadow Dancer]

Nut... nuts... I am nuts with typos Obviously meant "but"...

[TOGTFO]

@Mike- I think you are missing the point. Yes there could have been more reasoning for a no-kill but for the moment, there was only one left and that was CKscum being blocked by M=W. Now the issue is that you blocked M=W when it is more then likely he is town having blocked scum. You should have blocked CK as that was the most likely solution for who made the kill night 1.

@CK-

Am I just about confirmed town (as in, you will not lynch me) if I claim that I have a guilty result on someone, and they flip scum?

That mixed with a doc protection means yes for me however did no one target you at all for the roleblock last night? Plus, I dont know if there is a cop in the mission cards.

Would shadow be confirmed town if he gave me a role (inventor of sorts), and it made me a 1-shot cop that got a guilty on someone?

No he would not because we dont know the logistics of the role. Maybe he gives a random role and was trying to appear pro town or maybe you two are scum partners. This is different then claiming a guilty as bussing in a small mini theme with such diverse powers is not the best tactic.

Would TOG be confirmed town if he used a doc ability on a town player (If I am confirmed town, then my kill wasn't RB'd, therefore the doc protect is the reason for the no kill)?

I am town but I think llama considers me town due to when I claimed and how I did it, not who I targeted and/or saved.

Would Mal be confirmed town if there is confirmed scum on his wagon yesterday (scum wouldn't run up one of their own to distance from a mislynch)?

This is the same as bussing with a cop guilty in my opinion so I wouldn't considered alignment with lynches, at least not drastically just yet.

[Shadow Dancer]

@TOG:
Would it help if I would elaborated further on my role?
Wouldn't a false guilty on some one in case Chuji and I were scum partners be a horrible gambit, one mislynch for two scum heads? Also there are things to back up these claims.

[Chuji Kunisada]

We really need to agree so we can form a voting bloc and win!

Shadow- The reason I ask you is that scum can't try and influence the decision to their favor. Concerning the Mal reasoning- Mal was almost lynched instead of Taz yesterday. Scum wouldn't have put a vote on Mal in order to distance from a mislynch.

TOG- I didn't recieve a roleblock, as my ability went through. I also did not draw cop, but instead was gifted it (hence my opening post yesterday about the "present"). If shadow gives random roles, why risk giving it to town when he could have given it to his partners? I don't understand your last point (it seems like you believe me and shadow could be bussing a third partner, and something about not considering alignments without lynches or something.

[TOGTFO]

Can we stop the soft claiming and just get out what it is you want to say? You have given so much information already so it seems pointless to beat around the bush.

Claim everything right now and lets decide how to handle it.

[Chuji Kunisada]

I'm just trying to prevent the inevitable quicklynch on mike when I reveal that I got a guilty result on him. We need to come up with a voting block. The fact that you are making it difficult is pissing me off right now.

Mike is scum.
Wagon on Mal makes mal town, as it was supported by Mike. Mike heavily pushed Mal.

Scumhunting wise:
Mew is prob scum, as I believe yesterday that the whole Mew/Mal are both scum and him focusing on Mal over Mew made it seem like weak bussing of Mew.
Llama is prob town, as mike and llama have been attacking each other too much for them both to be scum (more specifically, Llama's recent vote prompted others to vote mike which makes it even harder to believe).

There, no one fucking vote. We need a damn voting bloc for the rest of the game in order to win. We are allowed only 1 more mislynch so we can't make a mistake of letting a small, small doubt cloud what is obvious.

Shadow- Why do you say Jedo is town? I know you gave him a role, but what role would that be and why would that make him town?

[Shadow Dancer]

Not really surprised about Mike...

OK, now that you already claimed my last crumb to you... This should be out now. What I gave Jedo was a vig shot. That obviously does nothing to per se to make him more likely town, but I wouldn't have given it to him if I had doubts in my town read on him :\

[Shadow Dancer]

Oh, if any one doubts our claim, read and Chuji's and my comunication with each other on Day 2. It's laden with crumbs and sumliminal messages. His "neighbours dog" crumb really totally creeped me out. I thought it was a reference to my avatar at first, but the PM states nothing about recipients knowing whom they got their items from, so I asked Far and she confirmed that Chuji coulkd not have known... So I guess he was more spot on thatn even he knew by pure coincidence

[LlamaFluff]

Yay mike is scum.

To explain the whole RB thing though again since Mike doesnt get it - My first reaction to the lynch of Tazaro was along the lines of "shit I read that wrong, CK is scum who got blocked by M=W". Your reaction is argued to be "Oh, there must have been a third blocking/protecting role N1, so M=W is scum". That type of mindset only comes from someone who knows that the kill didn't go through but wasnt RBed.

Cop result just confirms all this and if I was right out the gate D3, awesome beyond reason. If JJ really has a vig shot we are controlling it tonight (like he is killing Oversoul). Mayyyyybe M=W is scum, but I doubt it still.

No quicklynching still.

I want to think about cards first.

[malpascp]

Ooooooooooooooooooooooooh god

Either we believe Chuji's claim or not. Anyway, claimed cop result is claimed cop result. Our best move would be to lynch Mike today.

Also, I agree on Jedo being probtown. Scum would defenitivelly use the vig-shot. Unless it can be stored to the next night.

[Chuji Kunisada]

PF here, yay yay been long time I think retirement is best thing for my mafia career after this game. Loosing time and desire for the game I guess. I have read to 1105. I trust batt has been keeping you all company. I am at my parents place atm and will post more when i get home, but here is what I got so far

PF here

I realize part of this was asked before but I wanted to add more and didn't get the chance

@ Mal and M=W
Can you explain why you thought your previous blocking target was scum?
Who did you think were their partners? And why?
And why wouldn't those partners have sent the kill instead?

Again?

Is the first question about our opinion on the targets before or after N1?

Before. I suppose you could give me both if you wanted

Poro was likly killed because he bodyguarded successfully. I realize "most" roles are sent out at nightfall but I figured I'd try and search Poro's posts for crumbs anyway in case his role did come to him early like thief did to TOGTFO. But as suspected I found nothing. Poro likly didn't get his role until nightfall and since he gave know solid town reads, where he went is any man's guess

Anyway, I will reveal it now. My hunch is that if both of the roleblockers target the same person, that person will be killed.

That is why I have asked everyone to name their top 2 scum picks.

We will be lynching the first with the majority and then the roleblockers will kill the person with the second most. I would not mind a Mal>JtJ personally.

However, this plan will only work for one night as one of the roleblockers is most likely going to die.

Yeah its possible. In fact thinking about it, you might be right I assumed it was concrete on the same player in different nights but its probably concrete and cement at the same time.

If we go down this plan then whoever picks second last picks bookie or payoff - assuming they are going to co-operate.

I don't follow. Why should second last pick bookie or payoff, how would that help this plan?

[Chuji Kunisada]

wow quick glance at this page shows batt already sprung our hidden card and shadow is who i thought he was. Kinda wanted mal and M=W to answer my questions at them before batt said that but its all good. Getting that info now ain't much different

[Chuji Kunisada]

Jedo isn't confirmed town to me. However, the vig ability should be used on either Mew or Oversoul (don't claim which to avoid scum doing something with the information such as scum doc). Failure would mean he is scum. If he does it, then it is for survival and can't be heavily implied to mean town, even if he kills scum.

Mal- You didn't answer my questions. Would you agree that the 4 ppl I listed are confirmed town, or at least someone you wouldn't want to lynch. Also, the ability can be stored.

Tomorrow, since I will probably be killed tonight, I would probably look at Mew/Oversoul (depends on who is alive) and on their interactions with Mike. Mew seems obv scum to me just from memory of yesterday. Also, anyone who uses polkadot tie should be lynched. It's a governer role. I don't think scum would use it, as it would out themselves (not necessarily the person they used it on), but the WIFOM of that demands that anyone who uses the role, is lynched.