Open 319: Jungle Republic - Day 5: Calamity *GAME OVER*

[Shadowmod]

Heeyho... Splendid news! I caught those flakers... whasname... Kondi and ... that hess guy... Were trying to crawl home through the woods, they bastards... You hungry? I think I still got some arm lying around somewhere to munch on... And a lung... But there's little on it, mostly air... but a real delicacy, I can tell you... Oh, I see, it's not really your taste... It's a shame that you humans don't apreciate good food...

TheFool (3/7) - CMPunk , DonJosh , DeityKabuto , whispersilk Sky (0/7) - FightingShadow DeityKabuto (1/7) - DeityKabuto , DonJosh , blindfaeth , CMPunk , Sky , BBmolla , TheFool CMPunk (3/7) - Sky , FightingShadow , Ray Montano , Sky whispersilk (0/7) - DeityKabuto DonJosh (0/7) - DeityKabuto The Tick (0/7) - whispersilk Ray Montano (4/7) - Thor665 , The Tick , DeityKabuto , TheFool , FightingShadow , DeityKabuto , TheFool , CMPunk , BBmolla Not Voting (1/12): The Tick With 12 Players alive it requires 7 Votes to lynch / 6 to nolynch. Deadline will be reached on Thursday August 18th 2011, 6:00 p.m. Forum Time [UTC-6].

(expired on 2011-08-18 18:00:00)

till Day 1 Deadline

[blindfaeth]

@ mod

- that's incorrect I unvoted DK and voted Thor, sorry if I did it in an unclear manner ^^;

[Shadowmod]

I am pretty sure my vote count is correct. If I did not count your vote then what you describe as "unclear manner" might in fact be just an invalid vote. May I kindly point you to the rules, more specifically section III where it states that unvotes are required and that votes must be bolded and in separate lines.
If my assumption is wrong, be so kind and tell me in which post I can find the vote in question.

[blindfaeth]

fair enough ^^

unvote DeityKabuto;
vote Thor

[DeityKabuto]

@MOD: Post #347, my vote is on Thor, please fix~

[DeityKabuto]

I might do the ISO catchup tomorrow over the posts I missed today since I am getting lazy ._.

[blindfaeth]

@MOD: Post #347, my vote is on Thor, please fix~

you have to do it on a separate line <3

[Shadowmod]

What I told blind is most likely at least as applicable to you, Deity.

[DeityKabuto]

I haven't read anything but the VCA, as I said I will make my catchup post tomorrow, sorry.

Unvote
Vote Thor

[whispersilk]

My, what a pleasant mod we have.

Going to bed now, but will be around tomorrow to catch up on all the RAWR'ing and MEOW'ing goin on.

[CMPunk]

V/LA for weekend

Got a few things on, heading out of town so will have limited access to internet. This is probably going to be every weekend.

[blindfaeth]

lol btw I loved the public announcement xD

[BBmolla]

I have a request that BBmolla answer his own questions from wayyyy back on Page 2, it will affect my read on him. Please and thank you ^^ And I'll answer them as well so as to not ruffle feathers~

Woah, thought I answered them. My mistake.

1. I've completed two games so far, one game with a town win, and the other is still in progress. I played EpicMafia for a while, as well as some "attempts" at playing in real life. I have not played with anyone else in this game. I've seen The Tick around, but that's it.

2. As a seer, if I got a guilty, I would probably subtley hide my guilty in a post. For example "yeah, Joey Is Where I think we'll find our connections with johnny. Wolves are probably distancing themselves from each other..." Probably more subtle, but you get the picture.
I think a cool play we could do is have everyone claim Seer D2 and give a report. This will allow the real Seer to post his report and if he's killed it will confirm the report for an automatic werewolf kill. I'd need other thoughts on this, but yeah.
In general I think it really depends on the situation. D2 would probably be a bad time to claim, but if he's alive D3, it'd probably be a good time to out reports if he has at least one guilty.
However, if he thinks that the werewolf he got a guilty on could possibly mislead the entire town, then he could claim.
P-Edit: A possible flaw on the strategy with the mass seer claim is if a seer gets guilty on a werewolf that's truely the werewolf, the werewolf will probably be suspicious and kill the true seer. But I mean, it's still a for sure Werewolf lynch. I donno.

BBmolla - scummy. You have pro-town play but I have a strong gut feeling it is a front. There are little things you say that nag at me like no other and I think its your werewolf teeth nipping at my ear. I'll have more to say on this after you answer your questions from page 2, and I'm off work for the day.

I don't really understand this, your post seems to say I'm so pro town I'm scummy. Should I try acting more anti-town?

(And is it just me or does Thor remind anybody else of Gaston from Beauty in the Beast? I've been reading all his posts in Gaston's voice for some reason.)

OH OH WHO AM I
Also, definitely doing this from now on.

I think Blind is town atm. His scumhunting, while I may disagree with some of it, has true effort.
Need to see more from The Tick.

Vote stays on Ray for now. Still not convinced he's aligned with the town.

[Thor665]

@Ray - I have no idea what you're even coming at me with there, but am pretty sure you misunderstood what I was saying - I'll restate;

1. Faeth "knows" you claimed an alt and a desire not to provide game info - thus excusing your refusal to help meta yourself.
2. You say it exists.
3. I deny this exists in thread and desire him to show it to me due to a belief it showed up in a scum QT. I ask you if you think he metaed you to be aware of the quote.
4. He provides a quote from Fighting Shadow with a 'lol wrong player' and also defends himself because 'he couldn't be talking in the scum QT right now. So...in other words he does a 50% good defense and a 50% please hang me defense. Par for the course.
5. You accuse me of believing the meta doesn't exist in another game and show me it does, answering nothing I asked and proving me wrong of a stance I never took.

That's my understanding of the flow there.

@Blindfaeth - now that we've established that Ray never denied desire to provide meta info on himself, what is your take at his standoffish behavior to provide any backing to his commentary? Look at the case I've made on him, and note the repeated times I've asked him to produce stuff (that he says exists in this thread) and recognize he thought I was town during those exchanges.

What are your thoughts on that?

[blindfaeth]

I'm not exactly sure of what you're asking.... I think it's interesting that he thinks you are town when you are pursuing his lynch so hardcore. I think he is just trying to keep his cool and avoid the hammer. Whether that is a good or bad thing I can't tell. Everyone is going to want to survive their lynch. I would find it a little strange except both The Tick and BBMolla, who I have voiced suspicion of, have voiced the opposite opinion of me XD It always puts me on edge and I try to read intentions into it. On one hand, that person could potentially be mafia or werewolf and know that there is a good chance I am town-aligned as I am not on their team, and are trying to gain my trust or keep me a little quiet. On the other, that person could be a townsperson who genuinely thinks I am trying my best to help the town and are open minded enough to see past my suspicion of them.

So basically, I didn't answer your question XD What backing to what commentary are you looking for from him, exactly? You wanted him to tell you past game info or something and he told you to do the research or something right?

Personally, if I were in that situation I would react similarly - the difference being I would summarize an answer for you, maybe point you in the right direction. But I'm not sure I would go out of my way to do your homework & quote things. Does that make sense?

Again, if I didn't answer your question.. please rephrase ^^

[Thor665]

Wanna point out where I misrepped you or me in that exchange?

Would you like to quote some of the scumhunting and rub my face in it for laughs?

Here are two things I requested that have zero to do with meta - he politely told me to fob off both times.

I'm honestly confused why you're asking this - do you not understand my case on Ray? It started with a discussion of meta and scumhunting, but it's really got nothing to do with whether or not he'll link me a past game. I am starting to not feel like you read clearly through the game now.

In any case, off memory or off a re-read, could you offer me your views of my case on Ray, and specifically his actions during the period he thought I was town, which I do not feel your last post did.

[blindfaeth]

Could you kindly point me to your case on Ray because we must have different opinions on what a case is. To me, something like this is a case.

I'm not trying to be a smartass, bear with me. Basically what I gather from your exchange with Ray is this (please correct if I'm wrong):

You vote him in RVS for being an experienced player. (BTW I am reading your sarcasm better when you are in ISO.. I see that you purposefully tried to create a bandwagon to see how people would react amirite?)

Then you add to the plate that he isn't scumhunting. Doesn't make him helpful but doesn't damn him either.

You ask him to link you to a completed scum game and he tells you to do your own research.

You admit its more of a gut case than an experience case and announce you think his refusal to link you is either a lazy townie or scum hiding something.

He asks you when you are finally going to stop following your gut and you respond when the game ends. (I agree gut feeling can sometimes be your strongest ally)

And thats the end of it. I don't really understand what specifically is the case. But to answer your question as best I can.. I don't understand it, honestly. I get why you voted him in RVS; I get now why you reacted the way you did to the quicklynch attempt, what I don't get is why you drew the conclusion that Ray is scum from that bandwagon attempt. The analysis makes sense.. yes, tyhess might be town because he wanted to prolong discussion and not end the lynch, etc etc.

As for the entire time he thinks you're town. I see your point that you feel he is attacking you and trying to discredit your name INSTEAD of your case. But I have to agree that it doesn't feel like a case, maybe more an assortment of points against him. I think it's interesting though he says here that you don't have a case to argue because it isn't correct. I would agree that the points you bring against him are for the most part correct, but his opinion of scumhunting may be different than ours. But up until #265, he was posting mostly fluff IMO.

here you make a good point but I think his response is fairly decent. I seriously hope we would not be lynching someone on page 11, I am a strong advocate for discussion. But he should definitely have been on his game the entire time, thats for sure.

(By the way, thanks for making me do this. I seriously am seeing things in a different light this evening. Your tunneling of him is making a LOT more sense to me now xD)

So you thought in addition to all your points his reads made no sense and he doesn't understand because you hadn't commented on them, you'd been focused on him. You assert that specifically, his town read of you doesn't make sense and he responds that he thinks your analysis of post-bandwagon gave him good vibes. Then you ask him to comply again by providing scumhunting quotes or completed scum games and he says no, again.

I think his assessment that you are town is understandable, not everyone OMGUS's. I don't think someone should be expected to suspect you because you suspect them. It does kind of leave you wondering, though - you had honestly been focusing so very much on him, and so little on your reads of other people, is that one post of yours really enough to convince him you are town?

IDK, something is not quite adding up. I want to hear what whisper has to say, she has a clean head on her shoulders.

[blindfaeth]

that is basically, again, my way of rambling on without answering a question. But that helped me a lot ^^ And I think I understand you and your posts better. For now I will send my vote his way and bring him to L-2 because I agree something is not quite right. But I don't think we should be quick to lynch him or anyone else, we have PLENTY of time, srsly. And if I have the time tomorrow I wanted to do an ISO on BB because I had a gut scummy feeling. ^^

unvote Thor;
vote Ray

[blindfaeth]

Seeing you online down at the bottom of the screen, BB, reminded me to respond to your question.

I don't want you to act more anti-town lol. The only people acting are the scum, everyone else is just being themselves. "Anti-town" behavior or ideas are subjective. My gut was telling me that you were trying too hard to appear townie instead of actually being one. Let's see what I think tomorrow :p

[BBmolla]

@Thor and Blind
Guys, you've been arguing for about 3 pages now.

While I do understand that you think Thor is scummy Blind, remember that there are five anti town players. If you focus on Thor, all it does it help the scum because you aren't pressuring them at all.

I'm reading this as town on town anyway, but even if you're completely convinced of each other's scumminess, I doubt either of you will be the lynch for today.

TLDR; Focus on other players so the thread stops being a "Thor vs. Blind Brawl."

I mean, if I was scum I could easily let this go for days on end, but as a town member, I think your arguing is unhelpful.

I responded to your post Blind, could you address that?
TheFool and FightingShadow both have only ten posts. What do you guys think about their small amount of posts?

P-Edit: You posted while I was typing this out. Feh.
ISO me and point out what things you think are exactly anti town. I'll explain my thought process behind them.
I will ISO a few players myself in the next day or so just to give a general idea of my reads.

[Thor665]

It's 12:40pm my time so I'm not going to try to get clever with thoughts on this now, but that is an *awesome* vote change for consideration later. Something fascinating happened here, yes.

@Ray - preemptive - thoughts on Faeth's vote move? (I know it's against your playstyle to actually offer opinions on actions in game, but I'd love to have you shake things up )

@Faeth - short answer to the non-analysis needing part of your post. I vote via reactions/gut, PoE, and vote analysis. So my playstyle is intended to be difficult to ignore, and to create wagons and vote movement. Insomuch as you seem to somewhat grok that - yes, you're tagging me perfectly.

I'm actually of the opinion that about 10-13 pages is all that's 'needed' for Day 1 in a mini though, I've been wanting a hammer and a flip for at least 5 pages now.

Could you kindly point me to your case on Ray because we must have different opinions on what a case is.
[snip]
But I have to agree that it doesn't feel like a case, maybe more an assortment of points against him.

Cases are for wusses.
Also, an assortment of points against someone is a case.

@BB - we're not disrupting things enough for it to be an anti-town fight. We're getting reads on each other.

[blindfaeth]

That's not exactly the response from CMPunk I was expecting, I was maybe hoping for even an acknowledgement of the votes received? >.>;

[TheFool]

No. If I thought Thor was scum, I would say so. I'm saying that I believe he is skilled at scum hunting, but the fact he is being aggressive in this game does not automatically make him town in my eyes. Is what I said that hard to understand?

Yes, I wasn't sure what you were getting at in that statement, and was surprised by the lack of comment on Thor?Ray in your ISO. Thank you for the clarification.

Hmmm, what took you so long to get here?

It was 12 hours into the game...

This is pretty lol coming from someone with 1 post and 0 content. Care to explain how you can find someone with 14 more posts than you scummy? Or how this equates to virtue?

In my two posts I comment on the state of the game, express suspicion of a player, and follow it up with explanation and a vote. The first point at which I have any idea what Ray thinks about anyone is iso 28, 5 days into the game. And from there on out he largely ignores his three scum-reads anyway, focusing instead on specifically not defending himself.

If Ray's wagon had so much virtue, why jump on DK's? Was it because you thought his wagon was a safer bet?

I has hoping to get something coherent out of DK. It even kinda worked!

I don't like how you suck someone else's reasoning into your answer, without offering anything of your own other than your 3 previous meh reasons, especially as you then withdraw your vote a few posts later.

Agreeing with other people is not scummy. Inconsistency is, so I'm not sure how it's a "meh reason".

How about you give your reads on everyone, instead of jumping on and off the obvious wagons and offering nothing yourself?

...

I'll take that over 8 posts, 3 wagon hopping votes, no real voiced suspicions of your own, no reads, and fluff content at best.

Sure; list of reads incoming later today when I get a chance.

My case on Ray was unstated prior to me, so I'm not sure who's suspicions they are, if not mine? You seem to think that joining existing wagons is scummy; I'm not sure how that works.

I don't agree with quick lynches either.

Yes, that was my point. Quicklynches deprive the town of information and are often led by scum. His "quicklynches are bad" (iso 22) is a good example of what I mean; he comments that speedlynching DK would be bad, but manages to refrain from actually commenting on DK himself.

Bit of advice: Don't bother trying to divert attention attention away from yourself by making me look bad or by playing dumb. Once I have a gut feeling, I don't let go. I think you are scum, and until you do something drastic to change my mind, I will focus on you and I won't stop until my questions are answered.

That's not my intention; I'm not much for mudslinging, and if I'm being dumb, it's not playing. :(

That said, I do agree that I need to be more productive, and will try to ramp it up a bit. I have a bad habit of assuming my motives are self-evident and not explaining myself well enough.

[DeityKabuto]

Where have I avoided talking about either of them? I have a neutral read on both of them for very good reason, one of which I've already mentioned. I believe Thor is skilled, and I'm not sold on this Ray wagon. Yes, I know some of you think he is scummy, but I've seen it all before, and it's going to take more to convince me. I do not like the initial reasoning behind the wagon, nor do I like how everyone else, particularly you, jumped on it for no reason. Out of all those who hopped on, it pleases me the DK was the first one to jump off. It's one of the reasons I have a major town read on him at this point. He questioned why he was there in the first place, and decided it made no sense.

Right now for me, Thor and Ray effectively counteract each other, leaving me with a neutral read on both of them, with a slight scum lean on Ray. It's not enough to get my vote yet tho, and I'm more interested in the reads I get off of everyone else who jumped on the wagon. Particularly you. Let me be clear. I think you are scum.

Thor is not very skilled, he does have a lot of experience, but if you've played games with him, and do a Meta, you'd find his patterns and ways very predictable. I don't like your Neutral reads, look into the case more. There is a possibility Thor and Ray are both scum, and that's what I'm leaning towards. But I agree, I've suspected TheFool early on as Null-Scum, so I have no problem making sense of your case, whispers.

Oh, and whispers, can I call you Nana?

I don't like the name whispers at all, and every time I write it, I misspell whispers as "whipsers" and it's getting pretty tiring.

No. If I thought Thor was scum, I would say so. I'm saying that I believe he is skilled at scum hunting, but the fact he is being aggressive in this game does not automatically make him town in my eyes. Is what I said that hard to understand?

Thor is not skilled at scum hunting at all, he is simply as scum pressuring on another's lynch. In every posts all he says is "Lynch Ray" and other pushy words pressuring on Ray's lynch. I don't think that is Pro-town at all, and I am devastated that you don't see this.

I think Ray is defensive, and I think I would be too, after having someone start a campaign of voting on me for no reason. I'm not blind to what has been said, but I guess I'd still like to know why Thor jumped on him just because he made a comment about being away from this site. Am I missing something here?

One other thing I will say about Ray is this: I like his scum reads in post #262. They are pretty much my thoughts exactly.

On to you Fool:

Honestly, I beg to differ. Ray hasn't come up with any defensive which looks bad on him, but I am not saying that's what makes him look all that scummy.

Bit of advice: Don't bother trying to divert attention attention away from yourself by making me look bad or by playing dumb. Once I have a gut feeling, I don't let go. I think you are scum, and until you do something drastic to change my mind, I will focus on you and I won't stop until my questions are answered.

Don't focus on only one player, or I'll get the intention you're trying to pull of a Thor, *pressure for one guys lynch non-stop*. Thor is so focused on Ray right now, my balls are about to fall off.

Whispersilk proves she's better at reading comprehension and basic logic than blindfaeth.

@Whisper - you and DK seemed excited by blindfaeth showing up. If the game you're in with him is ongoing please don't quote specifics, but were you excited because he was a friendly/familiar face? Or were you excited because you think he's a good scumhunter/pro-town force?

Trolololol.

Possibly because I drive discussion and make statements that obligate people to respond to them - aka. scumhunting.
Are you accusing me of being nonactive here?

Blindfaeth can go into the scum list now.
OMGUS!
Also, still want Ray lynched, but now actually have someone I would get off Ray to lynch as well.

Wrong. All your reads divert the attention to one person, you adding Blindfaeth to the scum list means nothing since you will continue to hop on Ray's dick. I am saying your methods are fake and you are scum.

Montano is ridiculously unhelpful and anti town. I mean seriously, why do you have to be so defiant. You're the most anti town here sir, but I feel that you're not worth the lynch. Something tells me that he is so overly defiant that he couldn't scum, and more just a disgruntled townie. I'm not joining that wagon, although I do not like his play.

I was going to say something about whispersilk being on the fence myself, so I agree with what TheFool said. But she's come through with a good case against TheFool who I think is edging on scum.

I'm looking at at CMPunk though. His reasoning for his votes is hardly there, and when they are, they are basic. Like his vote on DK. It just seemed unoriginal to vote him as he joined a wagon he was unsure of. I think everyone who joined the first Montano wagon was unsure of it. He unvoted DK for no reason and then jumped on Montano's. I need more evidence from you.

Vote: CMPunk

Isn't CMPunk V/LA for the weekend?

I'd ask that you take the time to look at Thor & Ray's case as they are dragging a good amount of attention.

But nonetheless, I agree that CMPunk is quite suspicious and I won't stop you from looking any further.

Please explain why you're so convinced he isn't. Regardless of whether DK is scum or not, there are two factions. DK does not have to be tyhess' teammate to be scum. Oh wait, that's right. You think that tyhess is town because he voted with you on Ray, right? Anyone who agrees with you is good and anyone who doesn't, or accuses you, is bad, right? Wrong.

Partially why I believe Thor is scum, his play is involved.

DeityKabuto, Bro you're hopping like a kangaroo on speed. You've gone from suspecting Ray Montano to TheFool to Thor in just the span of a COUPLE PAGES. Scum or not, that's just insanity.

And you're still on notice for having breakdowns when in the hotseat. Whisper says that's just how you play--it's still destructive to the town.

WITH THAT SAID, Thor's case on Montano was pretty much baseless. What did he, or anybody for that matter, have on the guy? It started out as a random wagon, then the wagon was "justified" by Montano's lack of scumhunting...n1 scumhunting. Jesus Christ. Okay yeah, being active is important, but give it a damn PHASE at least to see if someone is really just dicking around. I mean come on...

I even think that if Montano had hit L-1, everybody would've backed off out of fear of a mislynch. Then we'd be right back to square one.

(And is it just me or does Thor remind anybody else of Gaston from Beauty in the Beast? I've been reading all his posts in Gaston's voice for some reason.)

Thor and DK are my scumreads right now. The only town read is CM Punk. Don't mean to sound sexist, but she has a similar post style to many female Mafia newbies I've seen when playing. You know. Spunky, headstrong, but doesn't say too much unless the thread is really heated.

Plus her feud with Triple H has been pretty cool so far. Too bad Raw's ratings still suck.

Are you one of those retard subs?

No way in hell is CMPunk a confirmed Town on your read. And if you were to post your reads, why only CM, Thor, and I?

I would throw down a vote, but since you accuse me of vote hopping, I will stay my vote on him. I just wish that I could vote multiple people at once, that how I feel right now, if I could it would be you, Thor, The Fool, and CMPunk.

But Punk doesn't speak up when the heat isn't revolved around her. There have been heated moments between other players and she makes sure to steer hell clear of it. Also, this week's Raw was awesome.

I think Thor's reacting really poorly to the suspicion on him from blind. It doesn't sit well with the read I had on him earlier. I'd also like for DK to grow a brain and contribute something original instead of piggybacking on everyone else's cases in this game.

WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? HOW DO I PIGGYBACK?

READ POST #214, I POSTED THE MOST BIGGEST READS EVER. LEARN UR PLACE NEWB.

Ehhh... The Tick's suspects and town reads don't make me any less suspicious of him from his predecessor tyhess

Tick reminds me of one of the worst subs ever. It was here [quote="http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=17534]Post #307[/url]

The guy named Toro subbed in, all his actions were scummy, everything he did made no sense and he flipped scum.

A retarded sub, I must say.

Oh man, you are obvious town. Help me lynch Ray!

This sounds like scum trying to gain Town followers, and false town creds. Rofl.

Oh, and I'm not saying Ray isn't scum. Just saying you are slipping if you are scum, Thor.

Yes, that was my point. Quicklynches deprive the town of information and are often led by scum. His "quicklynches are bad" (iso 22) is a good example of what I mean; he comments that speedlynching DK would be bad, but manages to refrain from actually commenting on DK himself.

I am the one who mentioned Thor and how is trying to quick lynch Ray with each post,

AM I THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICES THAT?

[Sky]

I was going to say something about whispersilk being on the fence myself, so I agree with what TheFool said. But she's come through with a good case against TheFool who I think is edging on scum.

Who do you lean towards more though?

Between TheFool and whispers? TheFool. Why do you find CMPunk to be not only not scum, but town?

Unless CMPunk was out the door for his V/LA, it irks me that he didn't respond to his votes.

There's a lot of text I still have to read. This game went nuts in a period of 24 hours. And DK has started up again....

I'll try reading it on the road, because

I'll be V/LA till Sunday

My vote currently stays.