Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[camn]

Well.. lets ask him.

Yos

: convince me. What is so TOWN about Incog this game?
He is usually a beacon of towniness.. but I am not seeing it. Enlighten?

[Yosarian2]

Well.. lets ask him.

Yos

: convince me. What is so TOWN about Incog this game?
He is usually a beacon of towniness.. but I am not seeing it. Enlighten?

Ok, let's go back to the beginning of the game. A lot of people attacked him for things that are actually town tells. The whole "hey, let me flip a coin to see who I'm goign to vote for" when he had two very early game suspects was not a scum tell at all; i can't imagine Incog doing that as scum, can you? It dosn't make any sense as a scum play, only as a townie having fun and trying to get reactions.

The way he questioned you about the whole "mass claim" thing, doing fairly extensive meta-research and quoting what you've said in other games, felt very town. From the way he went about it, it's pretty clear that his goal was to put pressure on you and get you to explain yourself; the town motive there was fairly obvious. On the other hand, if he was scum and you were town, I'd have expected him to either buddy up to you or try to get you lynched directly, not pick a fight with you and Haylen at the same time.

Based on BM's behavior, I think it's extremely unlikely that BM and Incognito were scum together. I already explained this before, but not only was BM attacking Incognito, he was trying to prevent other people from defending Incognito. If he was distancing from a buddy, he wouldn't have done it like that.

In general, if you look at Incog's posts throughout the game, it all looks like honest scumhunting to me. I can understand how it dosn't feel like that to you, since a lot of it has been directed AT you, heh, but he's generally been pretty aggressive and straightforward.

When Incognito is scum, there's a certain thing he does where he talks like he's thinking things through and he sounds reasonable, but his votes don't quite match what he's saying. He gets town v town fights going, and then subtly encourages them. It's subtle, but once you know what you're looking for, it's recognizable. He's not playing like that this game at all.

[Thor665]

[3] Incognito - Pine, TripMyWire, camn

Also, if we think Incog is town - than there's pretty certainly 1 scum in the above list.
Oh, hey TMW and camn, how're tricks?

[TripMyWire]

@TMW - also PoE and ennui.

What's ennui?

Google is your friend;

Gosh I'm dumb. Since it was immediately following a mafia abbreviation I thought it was some mafia term...

Oh, hey TMW and camn, how're tricks?

Huh?

Yos is stridently against the Incog lynch.
I think Yos is town.
I'm giving him benefit of the doubt on the read.

Noooooooo. Sigh. I think Yosarian is town. I also think Incognito is scum. Does that just not compute?

[2] camn - Incognito, Thor665

A camn wagon? I can possibly see it in her actions lately. Alright, so it seems no one has looked into the interactions between camn and BM yet and since that is the main reason people are voting for me I figure it would be the best way to help clear my name.
BM mentions camn very little in his posts. He first 'PoS'es her jokingly. Then he asks why someone thinks camn is town. Then he defends camn against Yosarian in the same post he defends me against Yosarian. "I suppose i'll offer a courtesy FoS: Yosarian2 for inconsistency of argument. Why are you attacking Tripmywire for something (admittedly i hadnt noticed this) that i am equally guilty of? I'm not buying the point about Camn either." He 'FoS'es Yosarian. He uses this as a stepping stone to his vote against Yosarian. camn was a part of his Yosarian case just as much as I was but he had more to go on with me. He definitely could also have been wanting to defend camn just as much as he could have wanted to defend me. Then in post #186 he says "i think we can safely assume Camn is town, simply from the fact that everyone is happy to buddy her at this point. lol more later" I think this could definitely be scum defending his scum partner in an innocent way by using everyone else as his excuse. In the very next post he says "btw, please take anything i am posting now with a pinch of salt, as i might have incurred a concussion." Though, in my opinion, this is not a serious post, he may have felt that he 'revealed' too much in the previous post by posting some illogical reasoning, that he had to immediately post a "qualifying" (did I use that term correctly?) post. So I guess she's moving out of my "undecided" category towards the "scum" category, but I still think Incognito is our best bet.

[Thor665]

Trip wagon really should have happened yesterday.

We're blaming Pine and Haylen for that, right? I just want to know who we're cursing about after endgame

[Haylen]

Night shifts, camn, night shifts Also, not gonna lie, a me-wagon probably would make me more active. That's a null tell though. <-- I love being bandwagonned. It makes me feel at home in a game :p I will really, genuinely try to be more active though.

*shrugs* I stand by my opinions. Don't do something you don't believe in.

ML, what is you actual case? I'm seeing nothing, by the looks of it you're voting me for voting for Bvoigt, which if I'm not mistaking is a chainsaw.

I'll post some more in roughly 8hrs 30mins time. Don't expect it to make as much sense as my usual posts though, it'll be 6.30am.

[camn]

The way he questioned you about the whole "mass claim" thing, doing fairly extensive meta-research and quoting what you've said in other games, felt very town. .

Hmm.
FTR, he actually did very shoddy meta-research, if any at all, quoting a single game years ago that he was in. My actual current meta was 180 degrees different from his argument......... . But your other points make some sense.
It is kind of along the "He plays more pro-town LOOKING as scum", though. Hmm.

I will think this over.

UNVOTE: Incognito

@ Incog, and Yos, regarding my lack of a claim. I was thinking about this.. and I wanted to ask you both: do you really think I would be caught without a rock-solid fake claim as scum? You both know my penchant for planning.... so is this the argument that you are making? That I am withholding because I lack a decent fake?

[TripMyWire]

Trip wagon really should have happened yesterday.

We're blaming Pine and Haylen for that, right? I just want to know who we're cursing about after endgame

Awww I guess you didn't like my post... *sniff* Would it help if I buddied up with you on your camn wagon?

Mod: I will be V/LA Friday through Sunday for a stupid wedding. Grrr.

[Thor665]

I dunno - try it and see. But you already gave me the opportunistic shift to now seeing camn as scum and now you're asking permission to vote someone instead of having your own conclusions - so really you're just making me want to lynch you dramatically more that as soon as one other person moves onto you I'll be there too.

[TripMyWire]

I was just making a joke since you're always talking about how people should buddy you and sheep your vote etc. What shift did I give you? And I don't need permission to vote someone. I'm voting Incognito, not camn. I'm not convinced camn is scum. I've been looking into the possibility (two posts ago) but I'd rather go with Incognito. Your post saying that I really should have been lynched yesterday came immediately after I made my post about camn/BM... what part of that message made you say that?

[Thor665]

A camn wagon? I can possibly see it in her actions lately. Alright, so it seems no one has looked into the interactions between camn and BM yet and since that is the main reason people are voting for me I figure it would be the best way to help clear my name.
[snip]So I guess she's moving out of my "undecided" category towards the "scum" category, but I still think Incognito is our best bet.

Basically for that part of it. You appear to be setting yourself up for a functional push to camn while supporting the Incog wagon (which, I submit, is Camn's baby)

In other words, in that post, you supported the counter wagon to you and shifted your view on another player who was the other potential wagon. Just looks scummy as all get out and reinforces my belief that you should have been dead yesterday - hence my post.

And, yes, people should sheep me. Buddying is optional.

[TripMyWire]

Oy. I see what you mean.

[camn]

Trip wagon really should have happened yesterday.

Agreed

VOTE: TRIPMYWIRE

1.Pre-emptive strike.
2.we need VCA.
3.Maybe I can make something of this night phase.
4.Correcting yesterday's mistake.

[Yosarian2]

@ Incog, and Yos, regarding my lack of a claim. I was thinking about this.. and I wanted to ask you both: do you really think I would be caught without a rock-solid fake claim as scum? You both know my penchant for planning.... so is this the argument that you are making? That I am withholding because I lack a decent fake?

(shrug)

Normally, I'd consider you refusing to claim to probably be a town-tell, if anything. This is kind of a weird situation, though. Tell me; did the fact that last time we played together and we were both town, that I refused to claim in the same way, influence your decision to not claim here? It's kind of a coincidence, and part of me is wondering if you might have done it expecting a positive reaction from me.

[camn]

Didn't even think about it. And I have very different reasons.

[Thor665]

@Yos - what are your thoughts here, I'm strongly conflicted by the whole camn interaction with the TMW wagon.

TMW looks uber bad, and his brilliant defense to me pointing it out is to say "oh" and as far as that goes it's par for the course as he looked functionally scummy yesterday. But camn is clearly suddenly getting religion on that point, and after all the headbanging from yesterday the sudden shift feels non-natural. I don't have your meta experience with her, but she really looks to be flopping around in an unhappy way. Her appeal to you for the claim thing makes sense and felt townish to me, the way she claimed initially did not feel townish to me in any way, and now the sudden flash of insight on Trip just feels canned.

I think we need to lynch Trip, and do so today. I would like to have you spell out some specific thoughts about camn prior to going into night as I'd like to have them from you on the table in case you end up deadified.

[Medicated Lain]

I want what is best for the town.

unvote, vote: Tripmywire

This may be the only way to get that right now.

[Thor665]

That's L-1, who wants to be my hero?

[Thor665]

Wait, I'm confusing games. That's L-something or other. If it's L-1 I'll hammer him, but I want to hear from Yos first.

@ML - feel free to, y'know, weigh in on the camn thing as well.

[Medicated Lain]

By weigh in, you mean state an opinion, or a vote? i would certainly vote for her too, if requested, and plausible. I think the chances she is scum are higher than the chances that Trip is scum... but I want this game to move on a bit.

[InflatablePie]

D3 VC #5 - The Did You Take Your Medicine Votecount

[4] TripMyWire - bvoigt, Yosarian2, camn, Medicated Lain
[2] Incognito - Pine, TripMyWire
[2] camn - Incognito, Thor665
[1] bvoigt - Haylen

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or No Lynch.
Deadline is Friday, August 12th, at 1PM EST.
Please point out any votecount mistakes.

Trip will be V/LA from 8/5 through 8/7.

stupid wedding

Have fun!

[bvoigt]

Oy. I see what you mean.

Do you have a legitimate response to Thor's case?

[Yosarian2]

@Yos - what are your thoughts here, I'm strongly conflicted by the whole camn interaction with the TMW wagon.

TMW looks uber bad, and his brilliant defense to me pointing it out is to say "oh" and as far as that goes it's par for the course as he looked functionally scummy yesterday. But camn is clearly suddenly getting religion on that point, and after all the headbanging from yesterday the sudden shift feels non-natural. I don't have your meta experience with her, but she really looks to be flopping around in an unhappy way. Her appeal to you for the claim thing makes sense and felt townish to me, the way she claimed initially did not feel townish to me in any way, and now the sudden flash of insight on Trip just feels canned.

I think we need to lynch Trip, and do so today. I would like to have you spell out some specific thoughts about camn prior to going into night as I'd like to have them from you on the table in case you end up deadified.

Camn could go either way. It really wouldn't surprise me if she flipped town here.

I don't think her unvoting Incognito is a scum tell. I don't know, I guess I just wouldn't be surprised to see someone finding my argument convincing, heh (especially someone with a lot of meta experience with Incog). In any case, if she was scum, I really don't see her dropping the suspicion against Incog quite like that; if she's scum, she would really want to lynch Incog either today or tomorrow, since she's in the top 3 suspects (top 3 suspects right now are probably trip, camn, incog).

Meh. She might be town. She is tricksy, though.

[Medicated Lain]

What do you mean she is tricksy?

[Thor665]

He means that trickery and her are a possible combination.

Also;

STOP.
MJOLNIRTIME!

Unvote: Camn
Vote: TripMyWire