Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[Flavour Analysis]

Yes I agree. My other head has to address Kendall first, but she says it will be the last time she will address her.

I will

no

t ignore her if she states things that are legit or scumhunting. But if it's garbage, I'll ignore it.

I also see she requested me to point out her flaws, I did, and she has not responded to it. :/

[Umbrage]

You are acting like its the best tell you have though.

I'll take that as a complement.

Oh no, im just mocking the fact that you have suddenly switched to saying kendall is the SK because its the only reason newbie players would ever be that aggressive.

I find scum, I don't identify the exact species. Scum is scum is scum is mafia is SK.

I get plenty paranoid throughout the entire game but just keep it out of thread so other ponies take more more seriously. Second guessing yourself and wondering why people are making the moves they are with relation to you is something anypony who is competent as town does, and deals with in their own way

You're trying to get off topic. We're talking about Kendall throwing a hissy fit because somebody agreed with him. Discuss.

WOOSH point dodge! You still are entirely failing to give me refrences to this suddenly existant past game where you have seen this exact thing pan out before, and are failing to explain why its indicative of scum instead of town.

Oh. I didn't know you wanted a reference.

ISO boberz.

I always thought saying "Somepony is scum" means that you think they should be lynched. Still this is blatantly setting up possibility of a bob lynch for if kendall flips

anything

. As I have said, flavor gives away some things that will be brought to the surface later in the game by me or others who from their few posts have obviously seen what I did. Calling two scumteams though is quite likely a slip.

Heheh... what? Declaring a gut scum read = setting up a lynch? Kendall flipping ANYTHING = lynch bobsnox? You're just making shit up now, aren't you?

[Flavour Analysis]

Paranoia is justified.

How does paranoia clear a player as town?

Those two things aren't even equivalent. Being paranoid is justified, it doesn't make her town- but that aside I believe kendall is town and I believe her wagon has at least 2 scumz on it.
Now, we should do an exercise for all of you newbies who INSIST on labeling things scummy that are NULL. How about you tell me exactly how that could work in scumz favor.

STARTING WITH
Kendall is playing the newb card, or she isn't- yes she is....blah blah blah
One way or the other how doesn't being newb help scumz? Outside of Road to Rome it really does no good- it's actually more of a death sentence than anything else. It doesn't make a person town either, so....
IT.
IS.
NULL.

Find the motivation in her actions..and then you can push the wagon.

From what I see, kendall is probtown....Hiraki's gamble was spot on to you guys, although lining up lynches is never good I get what he means. You guys aren't using the logic that you should all have.

From this post to your #354 your read changes from "probtown" to "obvtown" on Kendall. What changed from there to now to make your town read on her stronger?

Also I disagree on Hiraki's gamble. If you believe that Kendall is town then Hiraki's gamble can go either way, town or scum gamble. It's much easier to make this gamble as scum if the player is town because you have nothing to lose, and as town it just means he has a very strong town read, which idc about. I want to find out people's scum reads. IGMEOY Hiraki.

Question to all Kendall wagoners...
What is more likely of a scum partner in your opinion: bussing, defending, or ignoring?

I'm not on the wagon but I want to answer this anyways. Bussing and ignoring seem to be the most tactics. Bussing because they give scum town credit when one of their buddies flips scum and they were pushing them, and ignoring more out of instinct to avoid a connection. Defending isn't scumhunting and leaves obvious connections.

@flavour analysis

Kendall

:

Again, you haven’t responded to my question, Kendall. Do you know what a hydra is

? (This is important, please answer)

no. what is a hydra, and what is the point of a hydra?

Your second point, doesn’t bother me, my other head will address this. Again, neither I nor her find you suspicious.

this hydra bullshit is already pissing me off.

We know know the cases against you are doo doo, but she just ain’t a fan of your style of play.

okay, well tell your other personality to fuck off and quit telling me she doesn't like it; i don't care. i'm getting sick of explaining to people that i'm not going to change my personality.

Just your play might help scum condemn other townies without you noticing. Just try to keep a clear head.

noted. it's important for people to understand that just because i state a suspicion doesn't mean i think that person is mafia. i provide them with a chance to explain the potential slip up. if i think someone is mafia, i make it known.

you should all be well aware of that by now.

Btw, I’m sorry for calling you newb. As Glow has said, I say newb as in new to the site. You are one of the better players that are ‘new’, and I’m sure you are good enough to adjust.

i'm not going to adjust to any form of playstyle; i like my play.

You are making a stretch there. People are saying you are trying to fake being town, so your rebuttals are invalid.

how are my rebuttals bad? which ones are bad, and why?

Yet, their reasons are bad, and you are being pro-town. Don’t let it all get to your head. It’s more that,

there is no evidence of you faking being town.

Got it? Good.

have you missed the times that i said this?

Another thing, please don’t address people’s responses to others. I haven’t had the chance to reply to Mike Hard yet, and yet you answered. Now you can’t tell if my content is original or not. Please keep that in mind in the future.

quit telling me how to play this game. you just apologized for calling me a noob, and now you are treating me like one. i have no intention of adjusting to the norm on this website; i don't have to. i like my playstyle, and it is very effective. if i respond to something that is not addressed to me, i don't speak for the person who the question it's addressed to.

(Basically, if someone asks a question, wait for the person addressed to answer first before giving your own input) This annoys me greatly, but I'll give you a warning. If you do it again, I'll yell at you, and any others that do the same.

fuck off
yell at me all you want, but your warnings are not going to work on me; i don't care.

A hydra is two people who play on one account. The point of a hydra depends, sometimes its just because you want to play with someone and know their alignment, sometimes its because you can't take on a game or another game on your own, to work on reads and reasoning by bouncing ideas off another person while the game is happening, etc.

I made ONE post about how I dislike your playstyle, so don't tell me to fuck off. Your play style is distracting and thus anti-town, and so I wanted to point out some things that you do that are not helping. We won't be defending you anymore, mostly because I think that on both sides of the spectrum people are writing you off as town because of your playstyle or scum because of your playstyle when really you are imo null. Sink or swim on your own for all I care. This is a lot less angry than it would have been had my other head not articulated my anger for me before I got to post.

@Kendall: What are your thoughts on Glowball? Why did you accuse us of buddying you but you are completely fine with Glowball’s defense of you?

I don’t like Umbrage’s assumption and loose reasoning for Kendall scum in his #287, glad that SnakeSide pointed out the issue with it in his #289.

Umbrage v. RainbowDash reveals a lot of good points, and RainbowDash makes a lot of good points as to Umbrage’s scumminess and his weak attack on her and attempt to cast suspicion on her by saying she had a “scum slip”.

Mb53’s intro post is not only thorough but gets into questions and scunhunting right away, and really thinking about kendall’s play by disagreeing with the votes on her for being aggressive but agreeing that parts of her play are just dumb.

[Umbrage]

That is not the case on Umbrage. The case on him hinges around his pushing of kendall on two weak points that he continues to fail backing up despite multiple requests (overagressive as scumtell and not liking people buddying) and his slip saying that this is a multi-faction scum game, which no mod post mentions.

OK. Here are more reasons:

You don't scumhunt.
You spend most of your time explaining why you are not mafia.
You seem either too arrogant or too afraid to change your style of play.

[bobsnox]

So what are we supposed to do. Let kendall ride through the days and hope a vig gets a kill on her?

I'mma laser her tonight actually, so I guess we can move on

UNVOTE: kendall

In other news, my scumdar is going crazy in Hiraki's direction. I feel like he's usually stronger when he's town. I could go for a Hiraki-lynch.

Flavour: 409+ is right on. I'm about to sheep you for being my best town read.

[Rainbowdash]

Oh no, im just mocking the fact that you have suddenly switched to saying kendall is the SK because its the only reason newbie players would ever be that aggressive.

I find scum, I don't identify the exact species. Scum is scum is scum is mafia is SK.

Scum are always far more interested in finding a SK than town is. My wondering is why you are pushing SK specifically since its really impossible to get a 'must be' SK read on anyone, even if you are the best player ever.

I get plenty paranoid throughout the entire game but just keep it out of thread so other ponies take more more seriously. Second guessing yourself and wondering why people are making the moves they are with relation to you is something anypony who is competent as town does, and deals with in their own way

You're trying to get off topic. We're talking about Kendall throwing a hissy fit because somebody agreed with him. Discuss.

Paranoia, natural. Its a bit much of a freakout, but you can't POSSIBLY think that his reaction is more likely to come from scum than town. Infact you haven't even said why you think it comes from scum at this point, just continued insistance that its a scumtell.

WOOSH point dodge! You still are entirely failing to give me refrences to this suddenly existant past game where you have seen this exact thing pan out before, and are failing to explain why its indicative of scum instead of town.

Oh. I didn't know you wanted a reference.

ISO boberz.

Yay point proven for me! Its a playstyle thing not an alignment thing.

I always thought saying "Somepony is scum" means that you think they should be lynched. Still this is blatantly setting up possibility of a bob lynch for if kendall flips

anything

. As I have said, flavor gives away some things that will be brought to the surface later in the game by me or others who from their few posts have obviously seen what I did. Calling two scumteams though is quite likely a slip.

Heheh... what? Declaring a gut scum read = setting up a lynch? Kendall flipping ANYTHING = lynch bobsnox? You're just making shit up now, aren't you?

What was the meaning of "bob is scum but not with kendall" then? I think ive tapped out every possibility except "bob is not scum" at this point. Was it "I think bob is scum no matter what kendall flips but not enough to vote him upon kenalls flip but at the same time enough to be the only other person [at said time] that I am going to call scum"

[glowball]

Paranoia is justified.

How does paranoia clear a player as town?

Those two things aren't even equivalent. Being paranoid is justified, it doesn't make her town- but that aside I believe kendall is town and I believe her wagon has at least 2 scumz on it.
Now, we should do an exercise for all of you newbies who INSIST on labeling things scummy that are NULL. How about you tell me exactly how that could work in scumz favor.

STARTING WITH
Kendall is playing the newb card, or she isn't- yes she is....blah blah blah
One way or the other how doesn't being newb help scumz? Outside of Road to Rome it really does no good- it's actually more of a death sentence than anything else. It doesn't make a person town either, so....
IT.
IS.
NULL.

Find the motivation in her actions..and then you can push the wagon.

From what I see, kendall is probtown....Hiraki's gamble was spot on to you guys, although lining up lynches is never good I get what he means. You guys aren't using the logic that you should all have.

From this post to your #354 your read changes from "probtown" to "obvtown" on Kendall. What changed from there to now to make your town read on her stronger?

She refuses to buckle and keeps fighting. Scum with this much heat would have back down long ago so the more time that goes by and she is still holding strong says a lot. I mean it's ridiculously ignorant for any player, but scum would never let it get this far. I mean Kendall has a very me against the world type mentality which is just stupid- being paranoid is one thing, but as town SOMEONE else is working towards the same goal as you and she's just being unhelpful. That being said being unhelpful doesn't make someone scum, and her will and blatant disregard makes her obvtown to me.

I do hope however, if there is a vig out there with no other leads- shoot her because her whole attitude is getting old really fast. If she coasts through to end game with an equally as disillusioned player town will lose because k e n d a l l is making herself a scum asset.

[Beefster]

I don't like beefsters point system but.... w/e. Hes probably not going to change for me.

It's an experiment, I guess. I just kinda started doing it this game. We'll see how it works.

[Flavour Analysis]

Anyways.

I believe Beefster isn't really reading closely enough. He believes he saw Kendall catch a contradiction, when it was really a misunderstanding from Kendall. Slightly scummier from him... Has anyone else besides Jmurph played with Beef?

You Guess? Beef, tell me your thoughts on this post right now.

[bobsnox]

She refuses to buckle and keeps fighting. Scum with this much heat would have back down long ago so the more time that goes by and she is still holding strong says a lot. I mean it's ridiculously ignorant for any player, but scum would never let it get this far.

that's not true dude. she would be under even more of a microscope if she changed her attitude. the more she rants and raves, the more people start spontaneously calling her town and pushing to move elsewhere.

but it's ok - she dead soon

[glowball]

She refuses to buckle and keeps fighting. Scum with this much heat would have back down long ago so the more time that goes by and she is still holding strong says a lot. I mean it's ridiculously ignorant for any player, but scum would never let it get this far.

that's not true dude. she would be under even more of a microscope if she changed her attitude. the more she rants and raves, the more people start spontaneously calling her town and pushing to move elsewhere.

but it's ok - she dead soon

Well we aren't here to compare our game theory...and you don't have to keep saying that last part. We noticed the first time, just do what you need to do if you can.

[bobsnox]

it's relevant to this game so I brought it up. We're not just going to ignore that debate because it's theory...

[glowball]

it's relevant to this game so I brought it up. We're not just going to ignore that debate because it's theory...

What you believe scum do, and what I believe scum do have to do with game theory and are not relevant to scumhunting in this game. If we go back and forth about what scum would or would not do we aren't getting anywhere...

So you telling me, that my feelings on k e n d a l l's actions are untrue is not helpful and therefore unnecessary for discussion. Unless you can tell me how you rebutting my OPINION is helpful to finding scum.

[jmurph3]

Back from V/LA and catching up on the like 8 posts since I was last here. I do have to say this though: kendall is town, and by focusing on her, we're entirely distracting ourselves from catching scum. At this point, scum has to do nothing but sit back and let us drive ourselves into the ground. So let's get off of that, ok?

Additionally, umbrage is a name that I see popping up on my quick skim of what I missed (I'm going back through currently and reading a lot closer than I initially did). Can someone on the wagon sum up what he did that's sticking out as so scummy? All I saw in my very brief reread was a vote against kendall, which doesn't stick out as that much more scummy than some others (beefster's, for instance, seemed hugely scummy to me).

I will hopefully have more reads tomorrow.

[Flavour Analysis]

So what are we supposed to do. Let kendall ride through the days and hope a vig gets a kill on her?

I'mma laser her tonight actually, so I guess we can move on

UNVOTE: kendall

In other news, my scumdar is going crazy in Hiraki's direction. I feel like he's usually stronger when he's town. I could go for a Hiraki-lynch.
I h
Flavour: 409+ is right on. I'm about to sheep you for being my best town read.

Hmmm. Well I suggest you vote Donjosh. Available alternatives: Umbrage, Mike Hard. Spy is a possiblity. I am hoping for a better explanation when he has the time to catch up.

[Flavour Analysis]

Back from V/LA and catching up on the like 8 posts since I was last here. I do have to say this though: kendall is town, and by focusing on her, we're entirely distracting ourselves from catching scum. At this point, scum has to do nothing but sit back and let us drive ourselves into the ground. So let's get off of that, ok?

Additionally, umbrage is a name that I see popping up on my quick skim of what I missed (I'm going back through currently and reading a lot closer than I initially did). Can someone on the wagon sum up what he did that's sticking out as so scummy? All I saw in my very brief reread was a vote against kendall, which doesn't stick out as that much more scummy than some others (beefster's, for instance, seemed hugely scummy to me).

I will hopefully have more reads tomorrow.

I think when you first notice his posting, you'll notice instantly why he is scummy. Oh, lol yeah the vote on Kendall was what I felt to be scummy. Initially.

I'd also like you to address the double random vote thingie Rainbow spotted earlier on. Thx.

[Ray Montano]

Back from V/LA and catching up on the like 8 posts since I was last here. I do have to say this though: kendall is town, and by focusing on her, we're entirely distracting ourselves from catching scum. At this point, scum has to do nothing but sit back and let us drive ourselves into the ground. So let's get off of that, ok?

There have been a lot more discussions between players than just about kendall. Who are you getting scum reads on?

[jmurph3]

@Flavour: not sure what you mean exactly by he double random vote thing. I mean, I saw where rainbow pointed it out, but not sure what you want me to say or address in regards to it. Rainbow says it seemed forced? Well I guess that's because while it occurred in what, by my best estimate, was still RVS - not everyone had posted yet, I don't think - it wasn't purely random. Beefster placed a vote on me based on a previous game, but got the facts of that game wrong, and whether an accidental mistake or not, it stuck out to me as enough to change my vote.

I'm not sure if that answers your question or not...?

@Ray: see the bottom part of my post where I said that I'm posting more reads tomorrow...

[Flavour Analysis]

Hmmm, so I assume it was still not completely serious then?

[Flavour Analysis]

Rather, even though your second vote wasn't purely random, I still assume it was partially jokish?

[jmurph3]

@Flavour: partially jokish at the time, absolutely. Sort of an IGMEOY. And in my reread, I did notice some other things that further made me feel uneasy about Beefster. My vote may well stay where it is in all sincerity, but it will not be because of the circumstances when I first cast it.

[jmurph3]

(Also, in general, if ever I were to post something in all-caps followed by RAWR, it can hardly be serious, can it? I mean, do people actually cast serious votes that way??)

[Flavour Analysis]

oh lol. That's one of the reasons I thought it was an RVS vote. Haha, forgot about that. (Also because it was your second post of the game)

But yeah. I vote saying RAWR SCUM all the time.

[Flavour Analysis]

Not Voting (5)- Bogre,

kondi2424

, Silver1337, mikehart, Beefster,

These guys right here. WAIT A MINUTE. LOL.

Mod: Kondi was replaced :p

Anyways. The four not voting, why aren't you voting? (besides Bob, who should vote soon)

Note that Silver and Bogre haven't even posted content. Expected from Silver. Bogre I don't know.

[Ray Montano]

@Ray: see the bottom part of my post where I said that I'm posting more reads tomorrow...

I wasn't going to bank on you "hopefully" getting more reads tomorrow, so I wanted it to be clarified that you will.