NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[Îdher]

Mastin, what do you think of spyrex?

[SpyreX]

spy, do you think that empking stacked all his scum buddies into the middle of his reads? (see: viewtopic.php?p=3299028#p3299028)

That was really early in the game before he was actually ran up (only Yos / Idher were voting with him). I'd lean no on a gut / what I would do in that scenario.

Of course that doesn't pan out because with 3 scum partners and 4 lists I'd stuff one high/low and two in the middle (the middle being in his list town/null).

N1 being Ethos doesn't shed any light but that aside:

Idher is dead tonight. However, there's NOTHING that can prevent that shot. So, I say one of LLD, Zeph, Kunk get lynched and the other shot. Personal preference is LLD lynch and Zeph shot by a small margin over kunk.

If both of them are scum AND not the bookie then abandon ship the next day on the last and re-evaluate. If both of them are scum and the bookie is dead then I say powerlynch the last and go from there if the game doesn't end.

Now, this is pretty heavily predicated on the lynch being scum. If the lynch is town I would still take my shot in that group but I think taking the shot is key. Just god in heaven do NOT shoot oversoul or KKB.

[Îdher]

Kunk is not at all scum. Not even close.

SpyreX, what is your read on Ludi? Why do you think kunk is scum?

[Îdher]

Oops. I've been forgetting to sign. It's been all Amrun.

[xRECKONERx]

Oversoul (1): LLD
Magister Ludi (3): Îdher, Oversoul, mastin2
mastin2 (1): Magister Ludi
LLD (2): kunkstar7, SpyreX
MrZepher (1): kanyeknowsbest

Not voting: MrZepher

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch.
Deadline is in (expired on 2011-08-09 11:00:00).

[SpyreX]

Then LLD/Zeph and we'll go from there.

Part of it is the simple fact kunk has been in from start and has a magnificent 27 posts. Part of it is the treestump in combination with the setup. 3 masons + multi-shot vig + stump is a tough hill to climb even WITH a bookie.

The biggest part is PoE though. By a margin. Ludi's pissing contest with mastin like I said before is NOT something I would expect from scum at this point at all. I think he's been solid and KoC was p town himself.

[Îdher]

Why are you trying to direct my vig shot?

Kunkstar scum makes no sense with empking scum OR LLd scum. Your suspicions don't jive.

[Îdher]

Damnit.

-Amrun

[mastin2]

Faked reaction. There's no way that was a legitimate reaction to learning Idher was town. (Really, Idher was obv-town. The only thing which made me doubt that for so much as a second was the fact that they weren't dead yet. )

UN-FOS Idher

There's no point in doing this. There's literally no reason to post this. Especially since the above linked post was essentially doing this. Ludi's need to emphasize this makes him scum.

And though it goes without saying, if someone hammers me rapidly me today, they are a STRONG candidate for vigging, because it is still possible for town to lynch scum and lose tomorrow if the scum bookie themselves, which they will probably do if the quicklynch to end this day.

Scumslip. How? This reveals Ludi knows that Idher isn't one-shot. A fact only Idher should know. The only other way to know? Either 1: being a rolecop, or 2: knowing the bookie isn't one-shot.

Either way, there's no way Ludi could've concluded that there was an extra shot at this point if he were town.

I think SpyreX is town because he is trying to diffuse me and mastin as town on town, when there is no reason to do that as scum

Yes, there is--A: in the theoretical scenario where we're both town, diffusing our fight will 1: make him look better to most people, and 2: would only be temporary. We'd be at each others' throats tomorrow--and if that were lylo, game over; he wins via stalling our fight.

B: And if one of us is scum, he has an even stronger motivation to make sure one of us is not lynched. Note how he says that if one of us were to be scum, I'd be the more likely candidate. Which means, if it came down to You-Or-Me (WHICH IT SHOULD BE! I will NOT back down from this!), he'd choose Me. That's about as close to a scumclaim as you can get.

Actually, with Idher as vig and no shot coming last night, I'm going to assume that the mafia have a rolecop in their possesion.

There shouldn't be any "assume". This is faking it. Why? Because everyone noticed the mod mis-flipped Empking twice--once as bookie, once as rolecop. Which means, everyone could logically conclude that both those roles were on the scumteam. In other words, there's no "assume" in it. It's common sense.

A hidden three man mason group is very powerful, and combining that with a vig would about balance out a rolecop and a booker. There is clearly no cop, so there probably is no tailor.

TOWN WAY OF DEDUCING THERE'S A ROLECOP: The mod slipped on Empking, it's in the setup. I mentioned it on the previous page, even! (Or somewhere around there. I've said it today, for sure.) Idher mentions it again on 61, too. SCUM WAY OF DEDUCING THERE'S A ROLECOP: Trying to use logic to come up with a scenario which justifies its existence.

This also contradicts with Ludi's stance at the beginning of the day, you know, that whole "cop with guilty" thing he was complaining about in the Massclaim idea. When everyone already knew there wouldn't BE a cop. (Had one claimed, I'd have lynched them, knowing full good and well that the scum had a rolecop and therefore the town probably didn't have a real cop.)

Yosarian was on Mr. Zepher and I think that may be it.
Thus, the killed Yosarian, but also why no one else picked up on suspecting Idher with me

I recently rediscovered an old gem: Here's my counter-theory. Nobody's really used Yosarian2 in their arguments except for you, Ludi. So, my counter-theory? You killed Yosarian2 to put additional pressue on Zepher and Idher, your 'suspects', by pointing out his reads and saying that's why he was likely killed.

Honestly, this is the most classic case of scum WIFOM there is.

Side-note: SypreX and Ludi are the two who've spoken strongest against Idher having been obvig. Coincidence? I think not.

@Mastin: If only one of myself and LLD can be scum, and you seem to believe my treestump claim, are you finally willing to act on your suspicion of LLD and get on her wagon?

No. See also--me advocating strongly for Ludi/myself to be lynched. Even if LLD is scum, I will not let Ludi slip through the cracks, will not let this debate drag on to future days, lingering around to lylo. It needs to be settled, today.

Mastin, what do you think of spyrex?

VOTE: SpyreX.

01. Lady Lambdadelta saporovirus (replaced out D3) The Mask (replaced out D1)
^Scum.
02. MrZepher x Swag136 (force-replaced and blacklisted D1)
^Town.
05. Magister Ludi Knight of Cydonia (replaced out D3)
^Confirmed Scum.
06. kanyeknowsbest x | x
^Strong town lean.
07. Îdher (Amrun + Ether hydra) x | x | x
^Confirmed town.
09. SpyreX
^Obv-scum.
15. Oversoul x
^Obv-town.
16. kunkstar7 x | x | x
^Conf-town.


So,
TOWN:
Idher
Kunkstar
Oversoul
Zepher

Kayne

SCUM:
Ludi
SpyreX
LLD

[Magister Ludi]

Finally,

Unvote
Vote: MrZepher

I'll comment on the last few pages in a bit, didn't see anything directly addressed to me.

Spoiler: For Mastin Only

I skimmed mastins wall, as I no longer read his posts because it makes me so angry, saw this,

05. Magister Ludi Knight of Cydonia (replaced out D3)
^Confirmed Scum.

Can you please shut the fuck up with your whole confirmed scum bullshit over and over and over again when I am 100% town.

You are scum, so of course infuriating me and other players probably plays towards your win condition.

I have tried to read you as town, and it is impossible. Even as town, you never consider yourself wrong, or that you have a bad read. You are perhaps the most anti-town player I have encountered in any of my games, and continually posting bullshit all over the thread makes me wonder why I replaced in here. I remember, it was to play with players I like, like Yosarian2 and SpyreX and actually use fucking logic, not your mastin crap. If I was scum I would nightkill you to get you out of my game as soon as possible. Also, for your town ego, You basically have shit reads in everygame I have ever seen with you, and I don't even think you care at this point. Hell, you fucking deleted your main account because your read WAS SO FUCKING BAD someone bet you out of your account. If I wasn't so against bets, I would place a bet down on you that if we are both town, you would quit the site FOREVER, and delete all your accounts.

[mastin2]

Can you please shut the fuck up with your whole confirmed scum bullshit over and over and over again when I am 100% town. You are scum, so of course infuriating me and other players probably plays towards your win condition.

Oh, you're frustrated, alright.

But it aint town frustration.

You're furious that I've caught you, that I'm nailing you with every single post. You're outraged that I've given so many conclusive reasons why you're scum. You're ticked off that I'm getting you lynched with something you've acknowledged is more important than logic or gut--I'm getting you lynched by pure willpower. (This is a reference to an MD topic Ludi contributed to. The question the thread wanted answered is "which is better, logic or gut?" Ludi's first answer was "willpower".)

Even as town, you never consider yourself wrong, or that you have a bad read.

This is an admittance that I'm town from Ludi.

You are perhaps the most anti-town player I have encountered in any of my games, and continually posting bullshit all over the thread makes me wonder why I replaced in here.

This admits that him saying "anti-town" to me earlier wasn't calling me scum(my). It was calling my playstyle anti-town. In other words, it's contradicting with his earlier stance and he says that I'm effectively null by this.

If I was scum I would nightkill you to get you out of my game as soon as possible.

But I only started really going against you today. You had no motivation to want me dead until today.

Spoiler: This One's a bit long

Also, for your town ego, You basically have shit reads in everygame I have ever seen with you, and I don't even think you care at this point.

No. My reads never drop below mediocrity in their accuracy. Never. In my last game with you, I stopped a mislynch day one and had two separate people (Gollum and farside) nailed as scum. We were onto the trail of Pine as well, something the whole town failed to do. Seriously, you. let. him. live. despite. him. being. caught. in. a. lie. We were also on the trail of hohum. We were never told he was scum. We figured it out by knowing Pine's meta.

In other words, we did better than most of the players. That's why we were night-killed: because we were a THREAT. And yesterday, I wasn't. Yesterday, I stopped an LLD lynch and focused on a Chair lynch. Yesterday, I was the scum's best friend. Yesterday, the scum had no clue what they were letting live. They had no idea that I become exponentially more dangerous the longer I have to nail the scum.

Quite frankly put. You didn't see me coming. I took you by surprise by going so hard and fast against you. I caught you off-guard, and you're paying the price for letting me slip through your fingers, for letting me live rather than Yosarian2. You didn't think I had it in me to stop you, you didn't think I had it in me to nail you down.

Hell, you fucking deleted your main account because your read WAS SO FUCKING BAD someone bet you out of your account.

Wrong. mastin2 was created on my scumday. October 8th, 2009. My one-year anniversary for signing up on MafiaScum. That should give you a hint as to my intentions on the account--I had ALWAYS intended to switch over to mastin2, because it's a name I quite frankly feel more comfortable as. It's the name on my home-forum, after all. It was my choice to switch.

You trying to use this as leverage against me, makes you scum. You're trying to use past failures (which I LEARNED from) to justify me being wrong this game. You're trying to argue that because I was wrong in the past, I'm wrong now. You're no longer attacking my play. You're attacking me, as a player. That kind of low-blow is something which can only come from scum.

[mastin2]

Oh, and by the way:

why I replaced in here. I remember, it was to play with players I like, like

Yosarian2

and SpyreX

'Nother reason Ludi would kill Yosarian2--respect. Respecting Yos2's scumhunting abilities, and fearing them.

Like a classic newb-scum tell, in fact--killing the IC because they fear the more experienced player. It's a dead-ringer for that.

[mastin2]

And by the way, this is the exact same type of scum rage I just finished a game in had--Mini 1180, Alduskkel on day two. He was FURIOUS at me. He gave off the same vibe Ludi is here. "I CAN'T BELIEVE HE CAUGHT ME FOR ALL THOSE *BEEP* REASONS!" He's not arguing that he isn't scum. He's arguing that he isn't scum for the reasons I'm laying out.

[Magister Ludi]

Did someone speak?

[mastin2]

Logic is a human creation, humans are flawed. There are action, and there are reactions. I think we delude ourselves into believeing we are greater than ourselves, greater than our minds.

Mafia is at heart a game of will. Who has the greater will to survive, and to impose.

Logic is probably better than gut.

But I think both are inferior to will. It is why some people are very hard to lynch, why their opinions hold weight, why others look for them in games. Those players have exerted their will, their persona, they exsist and therfore others are forced to be diminished.

If you look weak, if there is no fear of you, you will be lynched. As the game progresses, those 'willful' either are never lynched because they're scum and win, are nightkilled, or familiarity has breed enough contempt, so to speak, in those around them that they overcome their fear and rise up to meet their 'oppressors', and vote them.

These are what I'm talking about.

[kanyeknowsbest]

hey ludi. do you think mastin is scum. if so how strongly do you believe that?

[kanyeknowsbest]

hey zepher i want current reads from you asap. doesnt need to be detailed tho that would be extra nice. thanks :)

[kanyeknowsbest]

you too lambda.

[Magister Ludi]

I feel fairly strongly that mastin is scum, though I actually feel stronger that MrZepher is scum.

Its been kind of hard to calibrate my read regarding that spot {Mastin} because she has been pretty incendiary and illogical towards me, so i've had trouble figuring out his alignment in my usual sense.

[Oversoul]

I feel fairly strongly that mastin is scum, though I actually feel stronger that MrZepher is scum.

Its been kind of hard to calibrate my read regarding that spot {Mastin} because she has been pretty incendiary and illogical towards me, so i've had trouble figuring out his alignment in my usual sense.

You're letting your emotions cloud your judgement...

I think he is following a certain wiki guide that ABR posted, but I don't know.

And why would he do that, though? He's been around awhile anyway. :s

[SpyreX]

Why are you trying to direct my vig shot?

Kunkstar scum makes no sense with empking scum OR LLd scum. Your suspicions don't jive.

I dont know how many times I have to repeat my statements to get it through.

We'll try it from the other way. Explain how a non entity "makes no sense" as scum.

Of course its moot because if I'm wrong there that many wrongs on my side is going to be me lynched tomorrow for the loss OR just shot tonight which would be some blessed freedom from mastin trying his hardest to lose this game.

Realistically if I'm wrong I'm wrong about him so if you're going to feed the beast and omg look at him directing my shots shoot whomever the hell you want.

[Magister Ludi]

I promised a LLD towncase as well, I'm still beavering away on that. I think MrZepher is a much preferable lynch, however, from anybody who has null/scum reads on both (SpyreX! )

[quote="Oversoul]You're letting your emotions cloud your judgement...

I think he is following a certain wiki guide that ABR posted, but I don't know.

And why would he do that, though? He's been around awhile anyway. :s[/quote]

Huh what who he ha? I think I asked you a question about your vote on me a while back, I would like it answered. I'm also not sure what you're saying here, but If you're saying i'm getting pissed at certain elements in this game, then yes, you're right.

[Magister Ludi]

hmm, aparantly, I can't quote properly.

[MrZepher]

I'm here, but I can't post now. I caught Kanye's question.

Also, where the fuck did SpyreX get all the PoE nonsense from?
Mind explaining that a bit?

And basically confirming night kills and vig shots looks bad.

[kanyeknowsbest]

And basically confirming night kills and vig shots looks bad.

what?