Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[Rainbowdash]

Going to get dragged away, but at this point I will say other scumreads are Beefster, Nintendo and jmurph, who I know only has a couple posts but they raise my hackles beyond reason.

Beefster in his recent catchup is all over the place with kendall, but he isnt focusing on anything except for kendall. For the most part he is just parroting other peoples reads and not explaining why they are scumtells, infact half of his tells are apparently null tells since they are listed as newbtown/scum mixes. There also is apparenty a running tally or something for scumpoints which is why he is voting kendall, I would love to see this complete list if it actually does exist.

Nintendo is more gut. I just don't like the way he approaches kendall compared to most of the rest of her wagon. A very nice bulleted case would be good to see from him here.

Jmurph did the semi-reliable double random vote tell. The time the second vote occured though the game was underway enough to make it stick out. Just the formating and everything of that vote feels far more forced then natural though.

If its not obvious, I am not answering any of those early game questions.

[SodaSpirit17]

Hey guys. Sorry I havent been posting much. Im posting via phone. Ill be home monday so ill get a read then.

[k e n d a l l]

@bobsnox

kendall - I did explain my vote. denying that basic truth is just bad.

yea yea yea
we all know,
you think i'm "trying too hard to seem town" which is basically the same thing as saying "you're too town, it makes me suspicions."

i want to know why you think i'm most likely to be mafia.
how am i trying too hard?
how does this make me suspicious?
why am i your highest suspect at the moment?

what do you think of umbrage?

@beefster

I don't like kendall's interaction with Flavour. kendall: Scum++

what don't you like about the interaction and why does it make me scum?

I feel like kendall is too up in arms about everything and is afraid of getting lynched. Newbtown++, Scum++
But is also unusually aggressive... Scum++

well of course i'm afraid of getting lynched; i want to play the game to the end and meet my win condition. don't we all?

also, how many times do i have to remind you all that i'm not

unusually

aggressive. this is how i always play. in fact, this is just my personality; i'm a bitch. can you all accept this ever?

how can you call it

unusual

if you've never played with me before?

Good point, but doesn't really count since it's a stock phrase... Newbtown++, Scum++

"stock phrase?" care to elaborate?

I have a TF2 analogy for you.

why don't you quit with the analogies and start explaining?

Some allied sentries are under slight fire, so you see an Engineer approach a sentry from a really weird location. It looks helpful, but then a few seconds later, after momentarily looking away, you see a sapper on the sentry. Why didn't you shoot the obvious spy?

what in the fuck?
rephrase this entire thing in a less retarded language

kendall appears to be the leader for scum points

do you really think a scum leader would be so blatantly aggressive and stick their neck out with each thought and opinion on day one?

if so, why do you think this?

[Umbrage]

you fail to answer the question "why?"
other than saying that i am aggressive, you have no reason to suspect that i'm mafia.
another question you fail to answer is how me being aggressive is a scumtell.
this is another example of voting me out of dislike, rather than actually having a reason.

OK. Here are more reasons:

You don't scumhunt.
You spend most of your time explaining why you are not mafia.
You seem either too arrogant or too afraid to change your style of play.
You're paranoid that someone will buddy you and make you look bad.

Cool. But I prefer not to line up lynches.

MGHNH. If someone volunteers to be lynched, it's not lining up lynches. This is a cop-out. A 'I'm not sure what town would do here so I'm going to excuse myself' knee-jerk reaction.

I love how you accuse me of WIFOM, and then use WIFOM of your own. Bad Umbrage.

I love how you accuse me of WIFOM, and then don't bother pointing out the WIFOM. Bad diddin.

Find the motivation in her actions..and then you can push the wagon.

The motivation is for her to look like she's scumhunting while she does nothing. She's so paranoid, she can't stand the slightest hint of suspicion on her.

And by the way, saying you refuse to play the newbie card is playing the newbie card.

Any opinion as to why you feel bob is scum?

Nope. Total gut read.

Being aggressive is not, nor has it ever been a scumtell but a playstyle tell. The fact that he is pushing this as a tell is in itself a tell. He continues to miss the fact that you actually need someone to push pace of a game too, or it has no direction and stalls out early. The game needs someone to take reigns, its better if that person is town, but I would rather be replacing into a game that scum did this then one where everyone sat around twiddling their hooves.

Aggressiveness, particularly early aggressiveness, is a scumtell. Going RARA LET'S GET SCUM is a good way to hide that you're not actually scumhunting.

He misses another simple point here of scum only are nervous of being tied to other scum, so unless he is calling for a FA partner, this is very moot. Infact scum love it when they look like partners to town, so why is FA scum? This question goes to EVERYPONY who is harping on her for this null to town tell.

I don't think so. There are more town than scum, for scum, tying themselves to a townie means a big sacrifice for a smaller gain. Besides, kendall freaked out when it was still way too early to be concerned about buddying. That's paranoia, and that's scummy.

This one is argueably a scumslip even, as he is already assuming that we have two teams when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a multi-scum setup.

I would even say this is more likely a single scum faction setup for reasons that I do not wish to disclose at this point

but will become obvious as the game progresses.

The bolded is argueably a scumslip even, as she is already assuming that we have one team when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a single-scum setup.

[k e n d a l l]

@umbrage

You don't scumhunt.

how have i not scumhunted? the entire reason mafioso are pushing to lynch me is because i am "too aggressive" in my scumhunt.

You spend most of your time explaining why you are not mafia.

this is also not true. i've stated several suspicions throughout this entire day. as i stated before, that's why people are pushing for my lynch.
find me a single post where i

only

said i'm not mafia. the majority of anything i've posted that can be considered WIFOM is "the mafia want me dead, because i've voiced so much content." the content is separate and has, for the most part,

still

yet to be discussed.

You seem either too arrogant or too afraid to change your style of play.

i am arrogant. i'm not afraid to change my play, i just don't want to. my play is effective.

You're paranoid that someone will buddy you and make you look bad.

well no shit, shirlock.

The motivation is for her to look like she's scumhunting while she does nothing. She's so paranoid, she can't stand the slightest hint of suspicion on her.

provide examples of how i have done nothing. you won't find any. in fact, i have my vote on bobsnox right now, that's certainly not nothing. earlier you said i was not scumhunting. pick one, umbrage; either i look like i'm scumhunting, or i'm not scumhunting.

you completely contradict yourself in that sentence. how can one person

look

like they are scumhunting, but actually be doing

nothing

try to explain that; i guarantee you can't.

i want to see that bobsnox is lynched. if/when he flips mafia, you're my next target. you either hinted to a third party, or distanced yourself from bobsnox. you essentially said "

kendall is mafia, bobsnox is scummy but not on the same team as kendall

"

i think you and bobsnox are allies.
i think you and bobsnox are mafia.

And by the way, saying you refuse to play the newbie card is playing the newbie card.

how?

Aggressiveness, particularly early aggressiveness, is a scumtell. Going RARA LET'S GET SCUM is a good way to hide that you're not actually scumhunting.

why do you think mafia would be so eager to draw attention to themselves on day one? that doesn't make any sense. also, yes, the point of this game is to catch mafia, so my motive is to catch mafia and i came in the game eager to do so. are you not eager to find mafia?

Unvote

Vote: Umbrage

he's voting for me, admittedly, because i am eager to find mafia.

Going RARA LET'S GET SCUM

Going RaRa LET'S GET SCUM

town reminder: mafia members are threatened by players with a voice. i guarantee that the mafia want me dead right now.

like i said, the mafia don't like a player with a voice. players with a voice catch scum.

kendall freaked out when it was still way too early to be concerned about buddying. That's paranoia, and that's scummy.

how is it too early to be concerned about buddying?
this is where potential alliances are established: day one.

[Hiraki]

[quote="UmbrageThe bolded is argueably a scumslip even, as she is already assuming that we have one team when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a single-scum setup.[/quote]or a reaction test.

Either way, this is classic Umbrage VI.

Moving on.

[Scott Brosius]

Vote Count 1-5

Beefster

(1)- jmurph3,

bobsnox

(0)-

Bogre

(0)-

chkflip

(0)-

diddin

(0)-

DonJosh

(4)- Flavour Analysis, SnakeSide, glowball, NanookTheWolf,

Flavour Analysis

(1)- diddin,

FourseenCircumstance

(0)-

glowball

(0)-

hiraki

(0)-

jmurph3

(0)-

k e n d a l l

(7)- SodaSpirit17, Umbrage, bobsnox, Ray Montano, nintendoaddict1, DonJosh, Beefster,

kondi2424

(0)-

mb53

(0)-

mikehart

(1)- hiraki,

NanookTheWolf

(0)-

nintendoaddict1

(0)-

PeregrineV

(0)-

Rainbowdash

(2)- chkflip, FourseenCirumstance,

Ray Montano

(1)- PeregrineV,

Silver1337

(0)-

SnakeSide

(0)-

SodaSpirit17

(0)-

Umbrage (2)- Rainbowdash, k e n d a l l,

Not Voting (5)- Bogre, kondi2424, mb53, Silver1337, mikehart,


With 24 alive, it takes 13 to lynch. Deadline is August 18th at 1pm EST

[Ray Montano]

Cool. But I prefer not to line up lynches.

MGHNH. If someone volunteers to be lynched, it's not lining up lynches. This is a cop-out. A 'I'm not sure what town would do here so I'm going to excuse myself' knee-jerk reaction.

This is stupid. Listening to someone whine about how we all can lynch him if someone else flips scum is stupid.

[Hiraki]

Ray. Who else is scum?

Dumb question. Don't waste my time.

Answer the question now.

[SnakeSide]

Any inside info?

I don't like this question. Asked to anyone by anyone.

There is no reason to believe there is 2 or 1 scum team at this point. There as been no deaths and saying I don't see a person on the same scum team looks suspicious to me as well.

The bolded is argueably a scumslip even, as she is already assuming that we have one team when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a single-scum setup.

I read the first page it's vague. How do you get 2 lines from the mod to = 2 scum teams?

[mikehart]

It doesn't make her scum- it's just the newbie way of thinking. It's easy for me to fall into that trap too, if I know I am town and then all of a sudden tons of people vote me it is very easy in the newbie mindset to think all of them are scum, the whole "it's not me, so it must be you" thing. It's null, and when they get a chance to breathe they will realize that friends aren't town and enemies aren't scum. It's a null tell, and so is all the reasoning against her.

See how it says ... R.I.P. he trusted mathcam beneath my avatar. The above explains exactly that. I too played similarily when I first started playing mafia. Mathcam took me under his wing so to speak in the game and I fully trusted him so much that in the end, it was I who was killed and scum won a victory. If Kendall isn't scum, I'm sure scum see him more as a puppet who they can get to do whatever they need.

The game is much different in person because you can read faces and feel out vibes. Playing mafia on a website is almost like a little girl talking to some pervert on the internet. The whole time the little girl just thinks she's chatting with one of her friends. Sick comparison I know, but it's the best relation that I could conceive.

For the above reason, I'm inclined to continue watching Kendall.

This for the record was absolutely beautiful play by mathcam. I remember reading that thread and being in awe of what cam was able to acomplish.

its a hard thing to describe without relooking through the thread and I'm about to get off work and can't exactly peruse the thread and drive at the same time so tonight when I sit down at my pc ill give you a better answer but for now ill try to describe what my brain puts in front of me as I think about it.

She seems like she's worried about being seen as scum and just reiterates over and over again that the scum won't like the fact that she is aggressive and noisy. She strikes me as scum who is doing everything in her power to appear protown instead of just being protown.

Like I said ill have to go through the thread again. Maybe its the aggresiveness that I just cannot see as town behavior.

She reminds me a lot of IS actually so maybe its a projection thing.

I don't like your reasoning at all. I feel if she was scum she wouldn't put attention to herself by saying "Oh stop buddying me" "Don't give out your town reads", if she were scum she would ignore the 'buddying', and being called town is a good thing for mafiat's, so why fret about a town read on you if you are scum? I feel anyone would think buddying = Scummy because I as a newb thought buddying was scummy, until an experienced player told me it was actually a null tell. I blame the wiki. So I feel it's valid to see a newbie considering buddying = scummy. Plus her play has been pro-town. You are my third suspect because I think you should know better, seeing from the way you post. How much experience do you have with mafia again?

Why fret about a town read on you when your town? Fretting about a town read is extremely weird to me no matter what your alignment is. kendall is not a noob to your whole buddying argument is invalid. I haven't found her play to be particularly protown. I don't find her play to be antitown either though which is why I never voted her but FoSed her. I found and still find her play strange which is why i find her suspicious. Weird/strange play is suspicious to me.

#171 is mucho scummy. In fact,

Unvote, Vote: mikehart

Why? He unvoted and then only FoS'd one person. If he voted, that'd be cool. But he didn't.

So because I removed my RVS vote and shared my suspicions of a player I'm scummy? Ok. I didn't vote kendall and continue to not vote her because I don't think she is a good lynch yet but I do think she is suspicious.

Unsure about Mike. Didn't like the unvote and fos on past 171. What is the point of an FOS and why not vote.

I unvoted to remove my RVS vote and didn't/don't feel that kendall is a good lynch. I FoSed her because I found her play suspicious and wanted some discourse on the subject. I never intended to start a BW on her, but to air out my suspicions. Her reactions still don't sit well with me and I will keep an eye on her but I don't feel she is a good lynch for Day 1. I find her scummy, not scum. There is a key distinction and that's why I am not voting her.

[Ray Montano]

Answer the question now.

No. When I think I've found scum you'll get my push on them. Also, get over yourself.

[NanookTheWolf]

@Moderator - Please note that I'm not currently voting for bobsnox, I'm voting for DonJosh as of post #310. Thankyou.

Fixed.

nanook - get your facts straight dawg. I DON'T think kendall is playing the newbie card. nintendo does, but he's using it out of context.

You're correct. I misread your previous post. I withdraw that argument.

[Rainbowdash]

Being aggressive is not, nor has it ever been a scumtell but a playstyle tell. The fact that he is pushing this as a tell is in itself a tell. He continues to miss the fact that you actually need someone to push pace of a game too, or it has no direction and stalls out early. The game needs someone to take reigns, its better if that person is town, but I would rather be replacing into a game that scum did this then one where everyone sat around twiddling their hooves.

Aggressiveness, particularly early aggressiveness, is a scumtell. Going RARA LET'S GET SCUM is a good way to hide that you're not actually scumhunting.

Nope, null tell. Town and scum both love to take controll of a game because it plays to their wincondition. Kendall is pretty off compared to most people, but that type of aggressiveness induced meltdown is probably town.

He misses another simple point here of scum only are nervous of being tied to other scum, so unless he is calling for a FA partner, this is very moot. Infact scum love it when they look like partners to town, so why is FA scum? This question goes to EVERYPONY who is harping on her for this null to town tell.

I don't think so. There are more town than scum, for scum, tying themselves to a townie means a big sacrifice for a smaller gain. Besides, kendall freaked out when it was still way too early to be concerned about buddying. That's paranoia, and that's scummy.

How is tying yourself to a townie a bad thing as scum? Where is the sacrafice in having someone think that you are parters to town? Its scums best dream to have people think they are partners to him, good scum will actually spend the entire game trying this. Paranoia is also a mild town tell, so kendall is town for that as well.

This one is argueably a scumslip even, as he is already assuming that we have two teams when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a multi-scum setup.

I would even say this is more likely a single scum faction setup for reasons that I do not wish to disclose at this point

but will become obvious as the game progresses.

The bolded is argueably a scumslip even, as she is already assuming that we have one team when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a single-scum setup.

There actually is something suggesting single scum faction due to balance ease, and I am not pointing it out yet. Assuming non-standard in multi-scum is not only something that allows scum to introduce suspicion of players to the game as you already are here saying that we should still lynch people who arent partners to a first player.

I feel as if im being ignored, others should be commenting on Umbrage at the very least here if not wagoning him.

[Hiraki]

Answer the question now.

No. When I think I've found scum you'll get my push on them. Also, get over yourself.

Translation: I have no other scumreads because I my scumpush is so oblivious I'm not caring about anything else.

[Ray Montano]

Translation: You're not getting what you want so you're resorting to bitching.

[Beefster]

@bobsnox

, the only "

evidence

" that you have "against me" is that my actions are too pro-town. that evidence certainly does not incriminate me; in fact, it does the opposite.

Nice strawman. It's not that you're

too protown

but that you're

trying too hard

. You are trying to seem protown. Big difference. Minimizing the distinction is scummy.

I'm even more satisfied with my vote. Especially when your response is to tout yourself as being super helpful and super protown etc etc when it's day one and very little has happened yet. You certainly haven't caught scum since your vote is still on me.

Basically all you've done is intentionally prop yourself up as the epitome of townieness. The keyword is intentionally. You shouldn't have to do that or even worry about that if you're really town. Your play should speak for itself. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who reads that as a huge scumtell.

Excellent point. You just explained exactly what I have been seeing.

[Beefster]

if i haven't done anything anti-town, i don't see how you can logically think i am mafia. if you haven't found my posting to be good for the town, explain why. don't just post things, back up what you say. provide specific examples of what i've posted that is not good for the town and why.

if you fail to do that, your argument is null because there is not one.

arguments need supporting evidence. you have failed to provide that.

Scared scum is scared.

[Hiraki]

Translation: You're not getting what you want so you're resorting to bitching.

Nope, I'm cool.

Seems you're a bit hot though.

Lose a game of hot potato?

[nintendoaddict1]

Mod I am really sorry but I need to replace out, I have a lot going on and will be unable to give this game the attention it deserves.

[k e n d a l l]

@mikehart

Why fret about a town read on you when your town?

why fret about a town read on you when you are mafia? mafia want to blend into the town, so it would be poor play for a mafia to decline a town read. it's important to fret about a blatant town read on day one if you are town, because alliances are established in this day. mafia are known to buddy up to a town player; oftentimes, they choose a town player that is vocal, therefore a target. while some mafia join the vote against that player, it's common for a mafia member to do the opposite to ensure different, seemingly pro-town voting patterns.

Fretting about a town read is extremely weird to me

no matter what your alignment is.

so you agree that it is a null tell, then?

O haven't found her play to be particularly protown.

why? what about it is not pro-town?

I don't find her play to be antitown either though which is why I never voted her but FoSed her.

this is very scummy. casting suspicion on a member, while keeping your name clear of the vote. also, you say that i'm not pro-town, but i'm not anti-town either, again this equals to a null tell.

I found and still find her play strange which is why i find her suspicious. Weird/strange play is suspicious to me.

what is suspicious about my play?

So because I removed my RVS vote and shared my suspicions of a player I'm scummy?

yes. FoSing a player without a vote, as aforementioned, directs negative attention to that player, without putting your name on the vote.

Ok. I didn't vote kendall and continue to not vote her because I don't think she is a good lynch yet but I do think she is suspicious.

again, i ask you, what have i done that is suspcious?
and why?

Her reactions still don't sit well with me

what reaction did you not like, and why did you not like it?

I will keep an eye on her but I don't feel she is a good lynch for Day 1.

who do you feel is a good lynch for day one, and why?

I find her scummy, not scum. There is a key distinction and that's why I am not voting her.

why am i scummy? why do i not have your vote if you think i am scummy? who does have your vote?
why?

@Ray

Answer the question now.

No. When I think I've found scum you'll get my push on them. Also, get over yourself.

it's very odd that you refuse to answer questions. are you hiding something?

@bobsnox

, the only "

evidence

" that you have "against me" is that my actions are too pro-town. that evidence certainly does not incriminate me; in fact, it does the opposite.

Nice strawman. It's not that you're

too protown

but that you're

trying too hard

. You are trying to seem protown. Big difference. Minimizing the distinction is scummy.

I'm even more satisfied with my vote. Especially when your response is to tout yourself as being super helpful and super protown etc etc when it's day one and very little has happened yet. You certainly haven't caught scum since your vote is still on me.

Basically all you've done is intentionally prop yourself up as the epitome of townieness. The keyword is intentionally. You shouldn't have to do that or even worry about that if you're really town. Your play should speak for itself. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who reads that as a huge scumtell.

Excellent point. You just explained exactly what I have been seeing.

scum buddies.
umbrage
bobsnox
beefster.

[Ray Montano]

it's very odd that you refuse to answer questions. are you hiding something?

I'm not going to answer stupid questions like "Who is scum". If I think I've found scum I'm going to push on them but I'm not going to push scum reads that I only half-ass believe in.

[Scott Brosius]

Assuming my first replacement has adequate offsite experience, found a replacement for Beck.

SpyreX replaces nintendoaddict1

[SpyreX]

Ohhh game we're gonna have us a good ol' time up ins.

Expect the fury tonight.

Kendal may be a pants on head ninja but is town. That wagon ends now.

Unvote, Vote: DonJosh

You'll get your reasons later if you need more than "look at his vote on kendall and then be ashamed he's still alive when I replaced in"

[Rainbowdash]

it's very odd that you refuse to answer questions. are you hiding something?

I'm not going to answer stupid questions like "Who is scum". If I think I've found scum I'm going to push on them but I'm not going to push scum reads that I only half-ass believe in.

Without giving us anything though you are removing everyponies ability to be able to get reads on you and other based off what you are saying. The game requires ponies to actually throw out theories and give suspicions, even if they are not a sure thing because that kicks off other theories, and that makes for other cases and soforth. When somepony refuses to give any suspicions, they are going to actively hurt the rest of the town.

If you had to vote *somepony* right now, who would it be. Things along the lines of "I don't know" are not acceptable answers to this question. It's not who do you expect to be voting at the end of the day, but who is your current and subject to change highest scum read.

Hopefully a third active pony here can help in finally dismanteling the kendall wagon.