Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[The Book of Oa]

Votecount 1.1.3

Toogeloo (4) - Nikanor, Lady Lambdadelta, zMuffinMan, Friend
Andrius (3) - mastin2, Mr. Subliminal, inHimshallibe
vezokpiraka (3) - ooba, hiplop, Apokalyptika
ooba (2) - WeyounsLastClone, Candle Jack
ToastyToast (1) - Andrius
Lady Lambdadelta (1) - Toogeloo
FrozenMirror (1) - tanstalas
nopointinactingup (1)- ToastyToast


Not Voting (8) - FozenMirror, Kast, marco1610, Ghostwriter, vezokpiraka, kondi2424, Oversoul, nopointinactingup

[Toogeloo]

I'm still down for a massclaim. Think the game is breakable (even to a degree- destroying the scumteam/Cult would be worth it IMO)

Were you thinking along the lines of Color and Name, or did you want a full on claim, like role and all?

Also, I did find my sent requests in my Sent Box like you mentioned.

1. Non-Lantern
2. Colored Lantern
3. White/Black Lantern

[tanstalas]

2. Why are you

totally

ignoring the mafia when there is multiple times more mafia than cult currently in this game

Do you have information that I do not? I was thinking that there may be 2 cult members to start so if one gets killed today or killed at night there is still another around to recruit. Because having the recruiter be BP last game was so fucking imbalanced it wasn't even funny. Also think there is probably an SK and probably a 3 man scumteam, so 6 anti-town/mafia in total.

The way you stated the above makes me think you have inside information on the setup.

Unvote
Vote: Candle Jack

[Candle Jack]

Do you have information that I do not? I was thinking that there may be 2 cult members to start so if one gets killed today or killed at night there is still another around to recruit. Because having the recruiter be BP last game was so fucking imbalanced it wasn't even funny. Also think there is probably an SK and probably a 3 man scumteam, so 6 anti-town/mafia in total.

The way you stated the above makes me think you have inside information on the setup.

X

I assume there is one cult recuiter to start the game, and a scum faction. This would make the scum faction multiple times larger than the cult faction.

I believe it is standard fare to include a single cult recruiter. Multiple cult would be entirely unusual.

Let me get this straight. You think that there is a multiple man cult team, and that someone who talks about a single cult recruiter must be cult because they are directly counteracting your own inside speculation of a multiple cult team? If so, wouldn't your assertion of me being a single cult recruiter directly counteract your own speculation (of multiple cult members), making you speculation null and void and actually making my speculation true and

thus your reason for voting totally full of noise

? You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

FOS: Tans

Bringing up you own speculation about a multiple man recruiting scum team, and then parlaying that suspicions of inside knowledge into a vote while simultaneously speculating

about the size of the cult team, the mafia team, and a serial killer as well, is completely disingenious

@ Tans:

1. You think the mod put a scum team into the game that can be outstripped by the cult as early as day three?
2. Can you explain why you have not brought up your speculation until now, and have ignored several other people talking about a single 'cult recruiter', like mastin and ooba and Andrius?
3. Why do you think there is a serial killer in this game?

[Nikanor]

^This is Tar talking, right?

[Apokalyptika]

Well, I'll admit that I've only briefly skimmed BNM, and that was a while ago. Clearly I'm going to have to go back and read it again, because it seem to me that Andrius' massclaim proposition is utterly insane. Does anyone who played in that game have a reason why massclaim would be viable now? From where I stand, it looks pretty antitown.

I see where you're going with that, tanstalas, but it seems to be a reasonable assumption. The cult can grow, after all, but the mafia eother stays the same or shrinks.

[Candle Jack]

^This is Tar talking, right?

Nope, I'm currently busy with Mind Screw V signups for a bit (OhGodMyInbox). Haven't posted since I probed Andrius (result was to my satisfaction).

I'll be around to lay out the case on Toast and ooba (oh yeah, there's a case there) in a bit.

(Only potential issue with the ooba wagon is that I'm pretty sure given his play so far ooba is Mafia, not Cult.)

- Tar

[tanstalas]

@ Tans:

1. You think the mod put a scum team into the game that can be outstripped by the cult as early as day three?
2. Can you explain why you have not brought up your speculation until now, and have ignored several other people talking about a single 'cult recruiter', like mastin and ooba and Andrius?
3. Why do you think there is a serial killer in this game?

1. Obviously I do think it is possible, as I already said what I think the setup could be. Why are you asking stupid questions?
2. Do I need to comment on everything anyone says? They can think what they want, I can think what I want. Is setup speculation scummy in your experience? If not, what is with this line of questioning?
3. Can you explain why you think there wouldn't be?

[tanstalas]

Well, I'll admit that I've only briefly skimmed BNM, and that was a while ago. Clearly I'm going to have to go back and read it again, because it seem to me that Andrius' massclaim proposition is utterly insane. Does anyone who played in that game have a reason why massclaim would be viable now? From where I stand, it looks pretty antitown.

I see where you're going with that, tanstalas, but it seems to be a reasonable assumption. The cult can grow, after all, but the mafia eother stays the same or shrinks.

Most of the scum had green lantern fake claims, so it woulda busted the shit outta that game had they massclaimed. Dana has a lot more people to work with this game. Hell, Batman or Superman could be fakeclaims. He isn't limited to just certain color factions this time around, basically any superhero could be a fakeclaim.

I'm torn on the massclaim idea for the above. I'd like to massclaim though because if we bust a scum and his fakeclaim was a superhero (non lantern) then bust another scum and he had the same fakeclaim type, then we can probably safely look at those people who claimed that type. And when I say massclaim, I mean names only.

[Friend]

Massclaim is clearly a bad idea at this point.

[tanstalas]

^scum

[Friend]

No, I have my reasons.

[ToastyToast]

And when I say massclaim, I mean names only.

Why do you need names if its the factions that make it breakable?
We could just say which corps/non-lantern group we are in

[tanstalas]

And when I say massclaim, I mean names only.

Why do you need names if its the factions that make it breakable?
We could just say which corps/non-lantern group we are in

In case all the scum are in a specific color group.

Dana has a million places to give fake claims, maybe there are no indigo lanterns in this game that are town for example.

Can anyone familiar with the comics let us know if one of the factions suffered more casualties to the black lanterns than another colored faction?

[Candle Jack]

Ludi, get over to the hydra QT so we can reason this out.

2. Why are you

totally

ignoring the mafia when there is multiple times more mafia than cult currently in this game

Do you have information that I do not? I was thinking that there may be 2 cult members to start so if one gets killed today or killed at night there is still another around to recruit. Because having the recruiter be BP last game was so fucking imbalanced it wasn't even funny. Also think there is probably an SK and probably a 3 man scumteam, so 6 anti-town/mafia in total.

The way you stated the above makes me think you have inside information on the setup.

Unvote
Vote: Candle Jack

Nah, Ludi's just making bad assumptions (like, say, assuming that a Cult that starts with only a single person is balanced in double-day).

Honestly, the biggest thing in favor of a Cult with recruiter and backup recruiter is the double-day mechanic, which is very very powerful for us (and from a design standpoint the potential of "get rid of Cult if you lynch correctly twice D1" which mirrors regular Cult recruiter getting lynched D1 is very, very elegant). I'm inclined to agree on a starting 2-man Cult.

On the flip side, I'm pretty sure you are SIGNIFICANTLY underestimating the power of the Mafia (or possibly Mafias, but I have my doubts given the special rules). Four players is standard at 24 players, and since double day is so powerful I strongly suspect that we're dealing with a 5-man faction (plus 2-3 neutrals/Traitors), outside shot of two 4-man factions or a 6-man faction. (Also note that double day significantly weakens the Cult - since we can lynch 2 Cultists per day and they presumably can only recruit once per night, the usual "lynching recruits doesn't really do anything to stop the Cult" doesn't apply.)

Something to deal with later, at any rate.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

@CandleJack: You still need to answer what makes my tone passive and WHY a passive tone is scummy.

@Andrius: Given that he said that in the giant 25 previews I got whilst creating that post, STFU.
also, your speculating too much.

We don't even know who the scum is, which of white/black is cult, how the non-lanterns are going to fit in...all spec and no hunting, aside from some ooba-defense and mastin buddying....interesting *takes notes*

Why is the quoted post scummy: Because you described Andrius's speculation as "interesting" when clearly you meant "scummy".

Why is being passive scummy? Because there are two parts of a scum mindset that favor being passive - wanting to avoid scumhunting (admittedly not as strong here due to known multiscum) and the survival motive (being active tends to make enemies which can get scum lynched).

CandleJack asking for a claim already pings me as scummy (even if its only a name-claim).

BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.

Can you seriously not figure out why I would question Andrius over hiplop's ROLEBASED attack on vezok? Or are you refusing to do so because you're scum and want a mislynch?

I WON'T be elaborating on this further.

[Candle Jack]

Let's get one thing straight
- Black lantern(s) are mod-confirmed to be cult (Dueling cults is fun to speculate on but barring new info, I'll just assume it's one cult)
- Really shouldn't matter who the scum team is right now
- "Lynch scum for the first lynch; lynch cult for second lynch" is funny. Cult's obviously the growing threat and trust me - we are going to have a hard time lynching CR even if two lynches are spent on the cause.

Also, finally, Andrius is not cult - so your votes are better used elsewhere.

I'll whittle down the rest of the list for possible CRs and come up with a lynch list - expect a post on this in

(expired on 2011-07-31 15:59:59)

Take a good look, everyone - ooba just dropped the single largest possible tell in a multiscum game.

He wants us to focus exclusively on the Black Lantern cult instead. There are at least two gaping problems here:
- Cult growth will be weaker than in a game with a single lynch per day, since town can outlynch Cult.
- So, what happens when we spend, say, three game days focusing lynches on Cult (assuming 4-5 kills per cycle [lynch x2, Mafia kill, SK kill, Vig kill?), managing to get a few of them but not finding the leader? Well, unless we managed to accidentally catch a Mafioso or two along the way we probably LOSE, because that would leave about 10 players alive and we're probably dealing with a larger-than-normal Mafia group.

See, I'd say the wiser course of action is to lynch scummy players D1 and start focusing on one faction once we've seen a few flips from the other faction.

Now, why does ooba want us to focus exclusively on one scumgroup D1? Because he's scum from the other faction (Mafia) and wants to a) buy a pass for not hunting other members of his faction and b) potentially buy his faction a free pass into lategame.

Dogpile on ooba, everyone, he's not town. We can find the Cult Recruiter with the second lynch, kay?

- Tar

[ToastyToast]

Why is the quoted post scummy: Because you described Andrius's speculation as "interesting" when clearly you meant "scummy".

So my

diction

is scummy? Really? If you could clearly tell that I meant scummy, then my point obviously came across. Anyone who didn't get the tone imbedded in the word "interesting" isn't trying very hard.

Why is being passive scummy? Because there are two parts of a scum mindset that favor being passive - wanting to avoid scumhunting (admittedly not as strong here due to known multiscum) and the survival motive (being active tends to make enemies which can get scum lynched).

?? I am being active? I am scum-hunting? ok.....

Can you seriously not figure out why I would question Andrius over hiplop's ROLEBASED attack on vezok? Or are you refusing to do so because you're scum and want a mislynch?

@hiplop: What was vezok’s scumslip? “Pretty sure” also suggests that its not a scumslip at all

So, people (who have posted) that are slipping towards scummy: nopoint, Andrius, hiplop, tans

As you can see, I did take issue over hiplop. Not to mention that I put him in my scummy list, not you. Also, I didn't ask you to elaborate.
Given the fact that I had ONE ISSUE with you and didn't put you on my scum-list, how can you say I'm trying to get a mislynch? Someone's being defensive and nit-picky....

And I think I know why you questioned Andrius. But over-reacting like that and coming so close to claiming? Yeah, I would generally consider to be more protective of their name. Also, you were attacking Andrius for crumbing Saint Walker, which is small compared to the other reasons for voting him.

[ToastyToast]

So, what happens when we spend, say, three game days focusing lynches on Cult (assuming 4-5 kills per cycle [lynch x2, Mafia kill, SK kill, Vig kill?), managing to get a few of them but not finding the leader? Well, unless we managed to accidentally catch a Mafioso or two along the way we probably LOSE, because that would leave about 10 players alive and we're probably dealing with a larger-than-normal Mafia group.

This is interesting, but I think we should at least hear the results of ooba's LET"S FIND TEH CULT search before gettin' all up on him

[ToastyToast]

Oh, I'm sorry. That should read "This is good." Don't want to be confusing anyone.

[nopointinactingup]

Just double-checked. They did have full fake-claims in the last one (with the exception of pictures)

@nopoint: So you think tans' claim is truly town? Also, to me,

Back to scum hunting,
1> I don't think Toog is scummy.
2> The miller claim was a null leaning town and I wouldn't suggest lynching/vigging him.
3> tans Larf's claim seems legit.
4> Andy's wagon is funky

Doesn't

give the WHY

that is necessary in most instances of scum-hunting. Getting major scum vibes from this one.

I'd like both Andrius and nopoin to respond

to what I said in my last post. Bouncing in-between the two of them atm.

Good luck with those.
And yes, I think tans is townish with his name claim

@Andy:
funky2
adj funkier, funkiest
Slang chiefly US

evil-smelling; foul

Indicated by:

Alright. So the mod compromised with me. The mod decided to send me the alignment of all the players who posted before the mod came in on page two. That means I got information like this:

SCUM:
Andrius

VOTE: Andrius. Make it happen.

NIKANOR. <33
Oh god its kondi.
Can we please organize a policy lynch on this guy? Reference available upon request. (HINT: READ FIRE EMBLEM MAFIA.)

baaa

Vote:Andrius

OH WAIT
<3

*mysterious whisper*

*mysterious whisper*

*mysterious whisper*

*mysterious whisper*

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Andy

@Tans: I don't think the mod will continue even division of role between the 3 types. And name claims can really tell us nothing
@Friend: Yes or no?

Liking Candle's case

Vote:Ooba

[tanstalas]

@Tans: I don't think the mod will continue even division of role between the 3 types. And name claims can really tell us nothing

I'm still torn between name claim and not. I can't see any disadvantage to a name claim at all, unless someone specifically needs to kill someone else, which I doubt.

People who are against a mass name claim are suspect in my book.

[ToastyToast]

I'm still torn between name claim and not

People who are against a mass name claim are suspect in my book.

?????

[Nikanor]

Lyncher+cult would be weird.

The thing that worries me about mass nameclaim is that it reveals a lot about each person's roles. For example, when you claimed Larfleeze I looked the character up on wikipedia and that made it pretty clear that you are probably some kind of ability thief. If someone claims Saint Walker, we can probably say goodbye to our doctor, and if someone claims Swamp Thing, we can probably say goodbye to the white lanterns ever becoming activated, etc etc.

[Nikanor]

I would totally be up for a lantern/non-lantern MC though.