Toy Story Mafia (Day 9)

[jmurph3]

VOTE: SnakeSide for being overachieving first poster.

Also,

@Mod: I will be V/LA this Saturday and Sunday

.

[jmurph3]

1] Why did you decide to give mafiascum a try?

I was playing Mafia IRL and stumbled upon this site and decided to give it a try.

2] How do you react to people attacking you?

Normally I try and defend myself against their case, particularly when it's completely illogical.

3] What will you be known for in this game?

Probably being one of the only girls in this game

4] What is your time zone?

EST, CST for a few weeks in August

5] How frequently can we expect you to post?

Hopefully at least once a day. Grad school starts for me in September, so I may have to reevaluate my playing situation then, but I doubt anything will change.

VOTE: jmurph because you caught me as scum in a newbie game once.

I'm fairly certain that, unless I missed a game, in the game we were in together, you were town.

UNVOTE: ,VOTE: Beefster LYNCH ALL LIARS RAWR!!!!

[jmurph3]

Back from V/LA and catching up on the like 8 posts since I was last here. I do have to say this though: kendall is town, and by focusing on her, we're entirely distracting ourselves from catching scum. At this point, scum has to do nothing but sit back and let us drive ourselves into the ground. So let's get off of that, ok?

Additionally, umbrage is a name that I see popping up on my quick skim of what I missed (I'm going back through currently and reading a lot closer than I initially did). Can someone on the wagon sum up what he did that's sticking out as so scummy? All I saw in my very brief reread was a vote against kendall, which doesn't stick out as that much more scummy than some others (beefster's, for instance, seemed hugely scummy to me).

I will hopefully have more reads tomorrow.

[jmurph3]

@Flavour: not sure what you mean exactly by he double random vote thing. I mean, I saw where rainbow pointed it out, but not sure what you want me to say or address in regards to it. Rainbow says it seemed forced? Well I guess that's because while it occurred in what, by my best estimate, was still RVS - not everyone had posted yet, I don't think - it wasn't purely random. Beefster placed a vote on me based on a previous game, but got the facts of that game wrong, and whether an accidental mistake or not, it stuck out to me as enough to change my vote.

I'm not sure if that answers your question or not...?

@Ray: see the bottom part of my post where I said that I'm posting more reads tomorrow...

[jmurph3]

@Flavour: partially jokish at the time, absolutely. Sort of an IGMEOY. And in my reread, I did notice some other things that further made me feel uneasy about Beefster. My vote may well stay where it is in all sincerity, but it will not be because of the circumstances when I first cast it.

[jmurph3]

(Also, in general, if ever I were to post something in all-caps followed by RAWR, it can hardly be serious, can it? I mean, do people actually cast serious votes that way??)

[jmurph3]

Alright, so I promised some reads, and here they are. In particular, I want to comment on the two biggest wagons, as I find that most relevant at the moment, and since if I were to publish my lists of reads, I would be mostly noting that half this town is sitting quite solidly at "null".

On Umbrage:

Umbrage's initial vote on kendall seems no scummier to me than several other players, so that's not enough to push me towards thinking that he's scum. However, as he continued posting, I noticed some things that I really didn't like. In particular, this post seems really bad to me. And I really hate in this post how he says,

Being aggressive is not, nor has it ever been a scumtell but a playstyle tell. The fact that he is pushing this as a tell is in itself a tell. He continues to miss the fact that you actually need someone to push pace of a game too, or it has no direction and stalls out early. The game needs someone to take reigns, its better if that person is town, but I would rather be replacing into a game that scum did this then one where everyone sat around twiddling their hooves.

Aggressiveness, particularly early aggressiveness, is a scumtell. Going RARA LET'S GET SCUM is a good way to hide that you're not actually scumhunting.

He misses another simple point here of scum only are nervous of being tied to other scum, so unless he is calling for a FA partner, this is very moot. Infact scum love it when they look like partners to town, so why is FA scum? This question goes to EVERYPONY who is harping on her for this null to town tell.

I don't think so. There are more town than scum, for scum, tying themselves to a townie means a big sacrifice for a smaller gain. Besides, kendall freaked out when it was still way too early to be concerned about buddying. That's paranoia, and that's scummy.

This one is argueably a scumslip even, as he is already assuming that we have two teams when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a multi-scum setup.

I would even say this is more likely a single scum faction setup for reasons that I do not wish to disclose at this point

but will become obvious as the game progresses.

The bolded is argueably a scumslip even, as she is already assuming that we have one team when I see nothing in the flavor that suggests a single-scum setup.

He seems to be acting very aggressive against rainbow for almost no reason, not to mention that most of his arguments are, generally, not even correct (mainly, aggressiveness =/= scum, and paranoia =/= scum). And he continues going after rainbow in his following posts, which really gets me since the only that I can see him having against

However, as bad as that is, his latest post really throws me:

Also: HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

KENDALL'S REPLACING OUT????????????

WHOOOOOOOOO, BABY, THAT'S A SIGNED CONFESSION!!!!

We've got ourselves a lynch boys, I'm gonna lurk and do other stuff now.

SEE YOU TOMORROW! WHOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*rides off into sunset*

This just seems HUGELY off to me. Not necessarily in a scum way, though. As horridly WIFOM-y as it is, I can't really imagine scum saying that. Definitely strongly-leaning-scum, but I dunno.

For the moment, then, I'm more inclined to agree with this:

umbrage is still a vi

DonJosh:

His vote against Kendall was scumtastic. The timing of it and the way he threw it out there and just disappeared is hugely scummy to me.

HoS: DonJosh

The reason why only hand of suspicion is because I actually highly like my vote where it is, on beefster. As I mentioned yesterday, my initial vote against beefster was mostly RVS, but I'm not liking a lot of what he's been doing since then. In particular, I don't like his vote against kendall since he came in so late with it that he should have been far enough removed from the situation to react with a slightly clearer head. That's a minor point, admittedly, but coupled with his lackluster catching up posts, I'm thinking it's adding up toward scum. Especially this point:

I rarely read very closely anyway. My suspicions are usually based on recurring patterns and posts that stick out.

This just seems like a very convenient excuse to me, and one that can be manipulated in the future to excuse a variety of scummy behavior, and I don't like it. I understand he's still catching up, but for now, my vote stays precisely where it is.

In other news, I've commented on who I think is important. If anyone has any specifics they'd like me to address, kindly point it/them out.

[jmurph3]

And speaking of flying under the radar:

In other news, I've commented on who I think is important. If anyone has any specifics they'd like me to address, kindly point it/them out.

Its nice that you commented on the two leading wagons but really that doesn't provide much discussion. There are more persons of interest that have been the discussion of a lot of hot topic but you know, just commenting on Umbrage and DJ is a real great way of keeping yourself out of hot water.

As I said in the same post, I am more than happy to address any specifics if/when addressed at me. If you're looking for me to list out every single person and give an opinion on them, you're out of luck. Additionally, I also commented on Beefster and why my vote is still there, but I guess you missed that part of my post.

Big wall coming tomorrow, cuz I have things IRL today, and I still need to finish catching up.

I sincerely look forward to seeing this.

[jmurph3]

Ninja'd by Umbrage...

Why isn't Kendall dead yet?

Oy. Just...oy. At least it's affirming my VI read on him...

[jmurph3]

Sorry, all, was busy yesterday. I agree that Peregrine's sudden reemerging just to win the mini-game is suspicious, to say the least. Though I slightly agree with mikehart that it may not be in the spirit of the game as Scott set it up, I agree strongly with the plan as being in the best interest of town, as it will prevent something like this from happening in the next mini-game. Even if Peregrine is scum who got the power, the plan to pick one person will hopefully weed the rest of the scum from doing the same thing. From this point on I would argue that answering the questions without town approval/permission is synonymous with claiming scum.

[jmurph3]

The DonJosh lynch is fine by me. I was hesitant to jump on the wagon when it first started because it seemed as if half of his wagon was just voting him for lurking, which isn't necessarily scummy, but since his return and his subsequent fail-boat of reads, etc., I think that he has to go. UNVOTE: , VOTE: DonJosh.

Umbrage is still reading as a VI to me, though I'm willing to reconsider if a reread poses anything. Additionally, I still think Beefster is hugely scummy. His play today has been awful, and I do not approve. However, for the sake of town unity, I'm willing to let that rest, but IGMEOY.

[jmurph3]

What happens if he flips town?
What information do we gain from his lynch?
Did anyone besides me look at his meta to see how little he cares for mafia?

1. Then we've lynched a lurker who wasn't contributing anything anyway, oh well?

2. Lots of information. More, I would definitely argue, than from Umbrage's, and we'd get a ton of information regardless of his flip. Whether town or scum, it will give us a way to look at who got on his wagon, when, how, what reason they gave, etc, to try and parse who is scum and who isn't. Because make no mistake - I honestly think DJ is scum, but I also honestly think that there are scum on this wagon. And any information regarding his alignment helps us determine who's who.

3. Meta is crap, in my opinion. You may have found two games where he flaked and flipped VT, but it's a logical fallacy to thus assume that in this game, because he's flaked then he must be VT. People can and do play to their meta regardless of their alignment, so it's at best null.

I think Glowball is pushing just a little too hard for his lynch. Stating in one post that DonJosh is probscum, but yet he's not your number one choice for this day is ok. What I don't understand is how Umbrage will be off the hook tomorrow, or a much harder player to lynch. If umbrage continues to be scummy, there will be others who will support the lynch.

QFT.

[jmurph3]

For Christsakes, people, are you fucking serious right now? Hiraki, I've never played with you before and have nothing against you, but seriously, you're acting like a spoiled child who has decided to take his toy from the sandbox to go play by himself because all the other kids were mean to him (a surprisingly apt simile, given the theme of the game). Grow a pair, put your big-boy pants on, and chill the fuck out. We're not all going to agree on everything, but at this point, we're going around in circles and gaining literally nothing. At this point I'm willing to jump on whatever wagon has the most votes, whether they're scum or not be damned, just because I feel like we're going nowhere and tearing ourselves apart for no goddamn reason. It is D1. There is a significant chance, statistics-wise, that we will mislynch. If we don't lynch who you want today and the person we lynch ends up flipping town, then you have all kinds of new information that you can use the next day to not only prove that the people on the wagon were idiots, but that some of them might be scum.

I am sick and fucking tired of everyone's ego getting bruised in this game. IT IS A GAME. And one that we seem to have a severely less chance of winning if we don't get our fucking acts together and concentrate on flipping

someone

so we can get some goddamn concrete evidence to work with. If you don't like that, sit down and shut the fuck up scum. Because we'll be coming for you next. [/rant]

P.S. I don't typically use language like this and don't expect it from me again. I'm just beyond frustrated at this point, and I feel this is a healthier way of dealing with my frustration than, say, replacing out...

[jmurph3]

UNVOTE: ,VOTE: Umbrage.

For the record Umbrage is not even close to the top of my scumreads, but at this point I just want this day to end

so damn badly

. I would also consider a lynch on Fourseen, since his whole random "What do people think of me" post seems incredibly bizarre, ill-timed, and scummy as all get out.

[jmurph3]

UNVOTE: ,VOTE: Umbrage.

For the record Umbrage is not even close to the top of my scumreads, but at this point I just want this day to end

so damn badly

. I would also consider a lynch on Fourseen, since his whole random "What do people think of me" post seems incredibly bizarre, ill-timed, and scummy as all get out.

So basically if Umbrage flips scum you're not to blame because you didn't suspect him.

Um...no? Pretty much the opposite, actually. More like I'm not to blame if he flips

town

, but as I said in my post here, I'm willing to lynch whomever majority of the town agrees on because I very much don't want us driving ourselves apart any more than we already have.

Also,

Oh I know its just amusing. Classic jmurph. Glad to see she hasn't changed *rolls eyes*.

Have we played together in the past?

[jmurph3]

Hey all, I am

V/LA through tomorrow.

I'm moving into my new apartment and will catch up when possible.

[jmurph3]

Holy SHIT tere's been 8 freaking pages since I last was here. Catching up now. Don't expect a post til tomorrow; there's a ton to read.

[jmurph3]

I like the Nanook wagon. I liked it when I was reading through all the D2 stuff that I was catching up on, and I like it now. Nanook just seemed to keep burying himself in deeper on D2, anad never really supplied any satisfactory answers for the inconsistencies and suchforth that people kept pointing out and calling him out on.
VOTE: NtW.

Also agree with this:

No speed wagon of course but lets make sure diddin wins the prize game which we will wait for today.

[jmurph3]

@Farside: I've had a scumread on Beefster for awhile, and Oversoul has done jack to alleviate those suspicions. In fact, I found his speculation on scum flavor to be odd and decidedly odd-timed, and he hasn't contributed much more. Chkflip is up on my list as well, bobz's softclaim (hardclaim? flavorclaim? not sure how to call it...) rubbed me the wrong way (I'm actually getting a SK vibe from him), and mikehart and silver both for being lurky and not contributing much.

[jmurph3]

Apologies for the slight wall; lots to respond to.

Was the glow kill probably a vig kill? Why only one?

Well, either the vig kill was blocked, and glow was the scum kill, or the scum kill was blocked, and glow was the vig kill. What difference does it make to you?

Diddin: Any reason you are voting Murph there?
I know I had a scum read on him when I was reading over some players last night.
Mostly the defense of Umbrage and DJ and not saying much going on in the game.

When did I defend DJ?

@

Jmurph

: I want you to look at Beefster's #962, and tell me what that makes you think of him. Also consider that he plays the same way regardless of alignment.

It's probably the most town thing he posted during his entire time here, but one post does not make him town. And if he plays the same as town or scum, what makes you so sure that he's town, and not scum? I don't believe I've seen an explanation of this from you.

Jmurph has the two random votes, the fact that his vote landed on Beefy and then stayed there for reasons that he never elaborated on but mentioned existed.

Pretty sure I explained that. The random vote on Beefster was because he lied, and I wanted to point that out. I kept my vote on him because he brushed it off in a manner that rubbed me the wrong way, and nothing he said after that merited a vote-switch.

He makes what looks like a case on Umbrage, but then brushes him off as a VI using some other ponies logic for calling him such, and instead latching onto DJ for a one liner. While continuing to subtely push the Beefy lynch along, calling Umbrage a VI and jumping on the Peregrine hate. Its worth noting that Peregrine is likely town here.

I honestly thought that Umbrage was playing as a VI. It was completely my mistake for assuming that this then meant he was town. VI is almost always town simply because it's too risky for scum to pull it off (since VI almost always gets lynched fairly quickly to get him out of the game). This is why I was only marginally on the Umbrage wagon; I thought him likely to flip town, and wanted to keep options open for actually finding someone who was actually town. Not sure what you mean by Peregrine being likely town and my reaction, since I was hardly the only one who felt that way about Peregrine at the time.

Now he is voting NtW who I suddenly have reason to think is town.

And it'd be real lovely if you could share those reasons.

Jmurph - I didn't suspect anything of Jmurph until just recently. Lurker, sure. Otherwise everything was good until #1537. She's sheeping and it's day 3. Never ever mentioned at any point in the game that she thought I was scum. Suddenly she votes because I never gave any satisfactory answers for inconsistencies and suchforth? That is crap. What were the questions Jmurph? If you thought this during day 2, then why not mention it? If you did a reread through the night, why not add a better reason to your vote?

Did you miss the part where I was V/LA for almost all of the incredibly short D2? I actually didn't even know a lynch had been reached until I found the thread locked and went forward to the last page. I hadn't caught up in time to make any comments, and I don't think a better reason for my vote was necessary, since my vote was a pressure vote.

As a pressure vote, I feel its mission has been accomplished. NtW isn't cleared in my book by any means, but his reaction has been well enough to alleviate the need for a vote on him. As such, UNVOTE: .

[jmurph3]

@FA: That makes sense. I had honestly missed that entire discussion (mostly because I didn't go far enough back to see what it was in response to). I still don't think he's as town as you do, but it's enough for me to take a step back and reevaluate things.

[jmurph3]

@Blonde Doctor: Firstly, can you get an avatar? It's distracting that you don't have one. Secondly, I think part of FA's frustration, as I share it, is that it seems to be taking you an awful lot of time to catch up on things, and that in the meantime, you keep missing a whole bunch of important stuff going on. I'm not saying that you should just skip what's already happened, but it does get to a point where you have to realize what's important and what isn't, and skip over some of the decidedly less important stuff. Especially since we're waiting on your reads at this point, and thus far you haven't contributed anything.

In other news, oh boy, fun times with the claim game. I believe both claims, but I'd kind of like to know who the third alien is. After all, if one of the three is assumedly scum, it'd be nice to be able to gauge our guess of who is said scum based on full disclosure rather than partial disclosure. It might also, you know, help convince us (nor not) of the claim itself. That's just my opinion though, and it's open to debate or interpretation.

[jmurph3]

Are we still having diddin answer the trivia question?

[jmurph3]

@Juls: and you didn't think to ask, or even to look through the thread to see if anything had been mentioned? Scum or not, that's a self-serving and ultimately anti-town move. Since you replaced into a lurky, scummy slot as is, you did NOT do yourself any favors.

[jmurph3]

@Juls: if the town agrees on someone for you to shoot at twilight, will you shoot that person if we lynch you?

[jmurph3]

@Juls - Does this ability stay or is it only for this game day?

This is the important question to me and why I haven't voted Juls. If the ability is only for today, then I say our best bet is to lynch Juls. If she's scum, hey, we've still lynched scum, even if we trade a townie for it. If she's town, we get the ability to use the shot on someone we think is really scummy. But that's just me.

[jmurph3]

I have a question for anyone who can answer it: as this is my first theme game, and the first time I've played with a potential of safe-claims, if scum do have safeclaims, would then third-party roles (i.e. SK) also have safeclaims? I'm just not sure how this whole thing generally works.

Also, I see no reason to lynch Juls today if the ability doesn't expire today.

@Rainbow: in your defense of why you think NtW is town, you keep talking about gambits and such that would be foolish for scum to do. Can you point out what/where these are?

[jmurph3]

@Rainbow: in your defense of why you think NtW is town, you keep talking about gambits and such that would be foolish for scum to do. Can you point out what/where these are?

NtW scum in activating claw while letting himself get lynched gives two townies (again, no more than one of us can be scum) a vig that scum would not know who is going to perform the kill, and one of them, me, being very twitchy and constantly changing her thoughts.

I am not sure scum would actually go through with an action that confirms two town and gives them a vig shot. So from that I dont think that NtW is scum, and will not be voting him today.

Here's the problem that I have: yes, NtW has stated that he will carry through with activating the claw and letting himself get lynched, but unless we were actually lynching him, we'd have no way of knowing that he actually would do so. So his statement that he'd be willing to do so is null at best. That, coupled with diddin's conviction that one of the neighborhood is scum, is making me particularly leery. After all, I would imagine that any of you three, if scum, would make the exact same promise to activate the claw and proceed to not do so. So if that's your only reasoning for thinking that NtW is town...I'm not sure I'm buying it.

Moral of the story: I'm more than comfortable with a NtW lynch, and I'm also fine with a TJ lynch. TJ is reading very much as scrambling scum to me, especially since I ISOed him and was particularly interested in the fact that half of his posts were from D3, once suspicion started heavily falling on him.

[jmurph3]

V/LA until probably Monday, at least

. Hurricane Irene has forced an evacuation, so not sure where I'll be/what the status of internet will be.

[jmurph3]

Back from evacuation to find my place still standing (hooray!). Catching up as soon as possible!

[jmurph3]

Ok, so, I'm down with the oversoul lynch. I can be persuaded toward the DN lynch, but I had a pretty strong townread on Hiraki (the replacing out non-withstanding). However, DN's latest posts are so just plain awful that it may merit lynching just for that.

I'd really love for chkflip's replacement to check in, for more people to come back and post (myself included, I know), and for Oversoul death.

Additionally, I like the plan of TJ hiding behind NtW, as that can help confirm NtW's status, which it's clear we're not going to do otherwise (too many different factors involved to confirm him one way or another as is). I'd also support bobs being investigated, as I still don't trust him and think that BP is far too easy as a safeclaim for scum/SK.

Finally, VOTE: Oversoul.

[jmurph3]

3.)

jmurph3, please explain your reasons for voting Oversoul.

Well, I never liked Beefster and had a leaning-scum read on him from the get-go. I was open to the slot upon Oversoul replacing in, but he's done nothing to prove he's town. Twice has he speculated on scum flavor in what seem to me like oddly timed posts, and a way of talking about scum without actually having to concern himself with finding them. First he posts:

You suspect FA because of your fake watcher claim that actually caught someone? What has FA claimed? Woody? I am having a hard time believing Woody would be a vig as he is very passive and docile towards violence. Jailkeeper on the other hand, I could see.

Who wants to bet that Sid is a scum member? Remember how he mutilated toys? That is who I think FA is, personally.

That Teddybear is also going to be a scum member.

Then later:

From Fourseen's flip I am going to assume who the scum flavor roles are most likely going to be..

Zerg
Zerg minion
Sid
Sid's dog
Ken (possible lover with Barbie?)
One of Sid's fucked up toys
Bear from the Third movie

Neither of these were relevant to the discussion at hand, and were about the only thing those posts contain, which to me is the definition of active lurking. He appears to have yet to catch up on the game, which I can't fully fault him for, but he does seem to be dragging his feet on making reads and coming up with arguments a lot more than I find plausible (like in this post).

Overall, his lack of productivity, coupled with my unease over Beefster, makes me strongly suspect that he is scum.

[jmurph3]

I agree. Oversoul's post seems really town to me. I also think his claim is believable (and for once it's not another PR...sheesh ). I'm a little torn about the fact that he was so eager to crumb a VT role that he forgot to scumhunt, but willing to put that on the backburner provided scumhunting picks up (which I think it has in the aforementioned post).

UNVOTE: ,VOTE: DeathNote.

[jmurph3]

Just look at who is on the wagon: Peregrine, TJ, jmurph, kunk.

I'm no longer on the Oversoul wagon, Rainbow.

Also, @Spyrex: flavor for your claim? Also, I'm not too familiar with PGOs, but are you saying that you only shoot if you're lynched? Who then do you shoot (as there will clearly be more than one person on your wagon)?

[jmurph3]

What happened to claiming?

I know bobs has been confirmed scum and all, but wouldn't it be helpful to the neighborhood at the very least to hear some claims?

Just sayin.

To be entirely honest, I'm afraid that by doing the massclaim today, the scum will somehow try and wriggle out of bobs being confirmed scum by throwing a wrench in the claiming or something like that. In my opinion, if we have confirmed scum today, there's no point massclaiming, since that just outs all the remaining power roles.

VOTE: Bobs

[jmurph3]

I don't believe Bobs' claim in the slightest. In fact, it actually more confirms him as scum to me.

[jmurph3]

Your AtE is fooling no one, Bobs.

[jmurph3]

I thought you wanted BD to claim first, but sure.

I am Bullseye. I am a lonely neighbor - i.e. a very limited neighborizer. I can pick one person a night to neighborize, but will only successfully neighborize them if they are Woody or Jessie, and even then, can only be neighbors with them one at a time. I neighborized Ray on N1 with no result. I neighborized FA on N2, and found that he was, in fact, Woody (which is yet another reason why I think Bobs is full of it). On N3 I neighborized Spyrex with no result.

[jmurph3]

Oh, and flavor for my role is the Bullseye gets very lonely without his pals Woody and Jessie and thus is always looking for them.

I want RandomActs to claim next.

[jmurph3]

@RandomActs: Are you VT?

[jmurph3]

@NtW: I mean that upon finding FA, a thread was opened for us to talk to each other (though not until N3). We can only talk in it during the night phase.

@RandomActs: If I neighborize you tonight, we will not be able to talk until N5 (assuming we are both still alive). If you have a pertinent role, it might be best to claim it now before the mystery of it leads to your death.

[jmurph3]

@NtW: FA is a hydra. I'm assuming the us and we are in reference to their dual nature.

[jmurph3]

@Bobs: I'm sorry, could you be more specific? Which lie are you referring to? You've told so many this game...

[jmurph3]

Also, I agree with this:

Also, fyi, with new information I'm now PRETTY SURE there has to be a scum in the vig neighborhood.

[jmurph3]

So, in other words, you want to know your scum motivation for, after a large wagon starts on you, suddenly changing your claim to a much more powerful role? Golly gee whiz, I don't know, possibly self-preservation? Trying to keep yourself from being lynched? Does that really seem that far-fetched?

[jmurph3]

My excuse when you flip town is that the scum must have mysterious powers that I don't know about because 1) TJ died while hiding behind you, which means you're scum, and 2) FA is basically mod-confirmed as Woody, meaning he'd have to be lying about his role - but NOT his character - or there have to be two JOATs (highly unlikely, in my opinion), in order for you to not be scum.

These two facts combined mean that you must die. If you somehow die and flip JOAT, then hugely intense scrutiny will fall on FA (and if magically there are two JOATs, then I will eat my proverbial hat).

[jmurph3]

@Mod: Can we get a prod for the people who haven't posted yet? Ray, kunkstar, BD...not sure if I'm missing anyone...

[jmurph3]

I didn't think FA's reasoning was necessarily the best, but I'll let them explain.

[jmurph3]

FA is Woody. There is no doubt about that. As I've said before, I cannot guarantee that they are town JOAT, but they are not lying about their character or else it would be impossible for me to neighborize them as I have, and I see no reason for a confirmed Woody to lie about being town JOAT. Bobs, on the other hand, has every reason to lie, and thus needs to die (incidental rhyming there). Kunkstar also needs to eat bullets tonight, and will confirm RandomActs one way or the other on the cop claim, while I confirm on the Jessie claim.

[jmurph3]

Also, @Peregrine: I don't know 100% if this was FA's reasoning for not doccing a vig neighbor, but we discussed during the night the possibility of there being scum among the neighbors, and we both seemed to find it rather likely.

[jmurph3]

@Juls - it's ok, it looks like we may have some mod death coming really soon. Which should help this game pick up nicely.

[jmurph3]

At the moment only Ray looks at risk of being modkilled. 1 possible townie is worth the price of getting this game moving again and lynching us some scum.

[jmurph3]

@Mod: I say if the person who asked to replace InHim can come in and post with 24 hours after you letting him/her know that they're in the game, then fine. If they can't, then please just modkill the slot. At this point, drawing the game out with replacements will only cause more people to flake.

[jmurph3]

@Rainbowdash: As you wish. UNVOTE:

[jmurph3]

BD claimed here.

Spyrex, you're up.

[jmurph3]

@Peregrine: did I notice anything in regards to...?

I do think it's very interesting that we appear to have two neighborhoods AND a mason group. If it were just the limited neighborhood with me and Woody/Jessie and the Masons, that would make sense, but the additional vig neighborhood is problematic.

Also, VOTE: Bobsnox.

[jmurph3]

The only reason that I want a bobs lynch is because I'm leery over his initial claim of bulletproof. It's coming off as very much of an excuse for why he won't be NK-ed, and that worries me. In case he is somehow NK-immune, I'd rather lynch him and have kunkster by vigged.

Also at this point, I think it would be suicide for any of the vig's not to go with the kunkster NK. I don't think we need to worry about that at this point.

EBWOP: ninja'd by Juls, but yeah that's essentially my point.

[jmurph3]

@Rainbowdash: I'm confused - why are you concerned with cutting the day short? We have confirmed scum.

[jmurph3]

Why don't you tell us what you talked to FA about last night and did you neighborize Random Acts?

Last night FA and I discussed whether or not they would be lynched straight off, and the seeming improbability of having two neighborhoods and a mason group, all with no scum. I did neighborize RandomActs, and it went through, though I will not be able to talk to him until tonight.

[jmurph3]

Since FA has fully claimed their role and actions, I am going to VOTE: Kunkstar. That's L-1, people.

[jmurph3]

Yes, I was specifically told that FA was Woody. In order to have full disclosure, I was NOT told specifically that RA was Jessie, or vice-versa, ONLY that the neighborization had gone through. However, that could easily just have been a mistake on Mod's part.

[jmurph3]

I've PMed the mod.

[jmurph3]

Now is probably a good time to note that Mod did list myself and RA's roles in our QT as Bullseye and Jessie, respectively.

@Spyrex: I agree with your plan. The only thing that I might consider, based on the discussion that RA and I had last night, is maybe taking out Rhinox. Rhinox's claim was Barbie, and since things seem to be playing really to flavor thus far, the fact that Kunkstar claimed Ken made us think there might be a connection there.

[jmurph3]

What happened with the QTs is this:

In the PM confirming my neighboring of FA, which Mod sent to myself and to FA (i.e. we got the same PM), the Mod listed us as Bullseye and Woody. The Mod did not list these roles in the PM to me and RA; HOWEVER, I PMed him, and he noted that this was simply a mistake on his part, and thus he listed RA and my role as Jessie and Bullseye respectively in the first post in the QT.

I was thinking about the only 2 investigations from the cop, and it sort of makes sense if you think about the fact that both FA and Bobs' JOAT powers were also limited in number (it would have made more sense if cop had had 3 investigations, since that fits closer with the JOATs, but...).

[jmurph3]

I am willing to hammer but I want to wait for Spyrex to answer diddin's question. Also, PJ, why is FA scum according to you?

[jmurph3]

Goodbye, Jessie. Bullseye will miss you...

In any case, I agree about the Masons, and it's something that RA and I had discussed. Additionally, we talked a lot about the possibility of Juls-scum, which is something that I want to look at more today.

[jmurph3]

@Spyrex: Only problem that I see with that plan is that there are only 7 of us alive. Thus meaning that if we take Juls out and she somehow isn't scum, she has to take scum out with her venge-shot.

However, I think this is very easily remedied by looking at one of the votes which stuck out to RA as an anomaly: the D2 mislynch of FC. Look at the final count:

FourseenCircumstance (11)-

TheJakalope, DeathNote, bobsnox,

diddin,

farside22,

Flavour Analysis, NanookTheWolf,

Rainbowdash,

Ray Montano,

SpyreX,

glowball,

The only people left on this wagon are the claimed Masons, NtW (who I am very willing to be is the same as Rainbow and Farside), and FA. As RA and I discussed, there

has

to have been scum on this wagon. There is literally no way that there isn't. Assuming the Masons are telling the truth (which is the only thing I don't fully trust at this point), and assuming that NtW is simply Alien survivor, if Juls takes out FA, one way or another between the two of them, there will be scum.

[jmurph3]

If Juls is town, I have faith that she will pick someone who has an honest chance of being scum. If she is scum, then it really doesn't matter too much who she chooses.

VOTE: Juls

[jmurph3]

@PJ: If the Juls lynch results in an FA kill, what's the difference between you voting FA and you hammering to get FA killed? You're just not going to get the support for an FA lynch today.

[jmurph3]

@Juls: why would you not shoot one of the masons to confirm them, then? You have that opportunity and you're not taking it, and at this point, I don't see why you're not doing so. If you are town and believe the masons to be scum (which, if you are town, is quite possibly the case), why not take your shot on one of them to determine if they are or aren't?

[jmurph3]

Alright. The "Masons"

have

to be the remaining scum. There's no way around that. I neighborized FA again last night. Same flavor-based result. Unless Mod is pulling a hugely bastard move by having Woody be scum, it's gotta be the masons.

[jmurph3]

Why do the masons have to be the remaining mafia? It's called PoE. I know that I am town. I can only, by Mod's rules, neighborize those with the flavor of Woody and Jessie. Since FA is Woody, that makes he and I town (again, unless mod is being bastard with flavor. Which thus far hasn't been the case). Given the PRs in the town, my guess is that there are 2 scum left. Spyrex and Diddin confirmed each other. That means that unless one of them is a liar and scum with you, PJ, they have to be the two remaining scum.

[jmurph3]

Because there's a big difference between a role name - i.e. cop, doc, etc. - and flavor. I don't recall ever stating that Woody was FA's role, just his flavor or character.

And the big difference is in RA's flip. The Jessie flip - and the confirmation of my neighboring with RA - proves what I'm saying. We talked about it and it just doesn't make any sense otherwise.

[jmurph3]

FA and I. But stop trying to change the subject. The distinction was implicit, and I think I might have even said something to that effect when the confusion between Bobs and FA was happening. If I've only ever claimed to confirm FA's flavor or character, and haven't said one thing about his role, then clearly I have no way or knowing or trying to know about his role.

[jmurph3]

Wow, I'm not even going to get into the whole he said/she said thing. If glowball cheated, well, at least it didn't affect the game outcome.

Good game, all. And a huge thanks to Scott for modding!! I know it can't have been any easier for you than it was for us. This was my first large theme game, and I have to say that it's not my favorite, haha (no reflection on this game, just on the whole large game in general). I think it'd be easier to be killed early rather than slogging through.

[jmurph3]

Hey everyone, sorry to spam the thread, but if any of you are interested, Nexus is running an Artemis Fowl large theme that you all should totally be a part of! There's only 4 spots left, but we want to fill it quickly!