Brightest Day Mafia, Part 1 - GAME OVER

[Candle Jack]

Candlejack is here and ready.

[Candle Jack]

Mastin, if you're a lyncher this time, might as well claim target now and be done with it - letting a Lyncher win and the Cult Leader die is a good thing in my book. [/Mafia92]

---

Mass choice claim you say?

SnakePlissken chose Nonlantern/Colored/White or Black when sending in Lantern choices (pity, I'd have preferred the exact opposite order, I wanted possible White Lantern anti-Cult powers and I'd rather start Cult than be recruited anyways). Wound up colored lantern so...

Usually I'd be up for mass name claim (hey, it's me, I'm ALWAYS up for massclaim if the rewards outweigh the risks), but my extant research on Brightest Day says that there's a couple of role names whose roles are fairly obvious and probably should be kept hidden. (Speaking of that: Andrius, if you're town now might be a very good time to shut up about Saint Walker.)

Vote: ToastyToast

for now - post 100 reads off to me for some reason.

Pre-post edit:

@Andrius: Given that he said that in the giant 25 previews I got whilst creating that post, STFU.
also, your speculating too much.

We don't even know who the scum is, which of white/black is cult, how the non-lanterns are going to fit in...all spec and no hunting, aside from some ooba-defense and mastin buddying....interesting *takes notes*

Okay, feeling quite confident about that ToastyToast votenow. Seriously, his tone is passive as all hell, and utterly hypocritical about speculation to boot.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

(Speaking of that: Andrius, if you're town now might be a very good time to shut up about Saint Walker.)

Tar, I handled myself very well last game despite all-but-claiming my name and color D1, and my role D2. I have hope enough that I'll be able to do the same here.

I have rolebased that says you need to elaborate and/or nameclaim in your next post.

Unvote, Vote: Andrius

(Sorry hiplop, I'd follow your rolebased but I need to get this resolved first.)

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Andius answered our question.

Unvote
Vote: ooba

This wagon needs to happen. Firstly, Ooba starts the game with a joke about voting LLD, which is normal, but then immediatly glosses over joke voting LLD, despite given a golden opportunity to do so with her 'slip' when she typed goon, instead rolling the dice and going with their results on who to vote. I'm not sure why he did this, but it is more likely that town would have plunked down a vote on LLD without worrying instead of ignoring that opportunity and moving onto something else alltogether. (voting vezok)

Also, the fact that through nine posts he has not gotten a single thought in about who is more likely scum than town, or who the cult recruiter is (instead promising it in three days (?)),but has instead talked about the flavour of the game (and his speculation isn't even that helpful) definently is more likely to come from someone anti-town who wants to wait and see how things unfold.

Ooba,

1. I want to hear who you think is cult recruiter now, not in three days
2. Why are you

totally

ignoring the mafia when there is multiple times more mafia than cult currently in this game
2a. Do you think mafia and cult act differently?
3. Who do you think is mafia?

[Candle Jack]

If we had full agreement at this moment we would be tempted to vote Andrius. His tone reads much like scum Andy trying to fake Town Andy. Also based on what we have stated before in thread a mass-claim ISN’T going to magically ‘catch’ the scum based on the variety of ways the Mods can form the scum-team from ANY of the three categories. He has to know that this set-up isn’t likely breakable via the groups like Blackest Night.

@Frozen

1. What

specifically

sounds like scum andius instead of town andrius?
2. Do you think his attempt to try and break the setup is more likely to come from someone anti-town?
2a. Also, why do you immediatly discourage talking about the possibility of breaking the setup?
3. What sort of massclaim are you talking about, the one we are currently doing, or something else?

[Candle Jack]

Do you have information that I do not? I was thinking that there may be 2 cult members to start so if one gets killed today or killed at night there is still another around to recruit. Because having the recruiter be BP last game was so fucking imbalanced it wasn't even funny. Also think there is probably an SK and probably a 3 man scumteam, so 6 anti-town/mafia in total.

The way you stated the above makes me think you have inside information on the setup.

X

I assume there is one cult recuiter to start the game, and a scum faction. This would make the scum faction multiple times larger than the cult faction.

I believe it is standard fare to include a single cult recruiter. Multiple cult would be entirely unusual.

Let me get this straight. You think that there is a multiple man cult team, and that someone who talks about a single cult recruiter must be cult because they are directly counteracting your own inside speculation of a multiple cult team? If so, wouldn't your assertion of me being a single cult recruiter directly counteract your own speculation (of multiple cult members), making you speculation null and void and actually making my speculation true and

thus your reason for voting totally full of noise

? You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth.

FOS: Tans

Bringing up you own speculation about a multiple man recruiting scum team, and then parlaying that suspicions of inside knowledge into a vote while simultaneously speculating

about the size of the cult team, the mafia team, and a serial killer as well, is completely disingenious

@ Tans:

1. You think the mod put a scum team into the game that can be outstripped by the cult as early as day three?
2. Can you explain why you have not brought up your speculation until now, and have ignored several other people talking about a single 'cult recruiter', like mastin and ooba and Andrius?
3. Why do you think there is a serial killer in this game?

[Candle Jack]

^This is Tar talking, right?

Nope, I'm currently busy with Mind Screw V signups for a bit (OhGodMyInbox). Haven't posted since I probed Andrius (result was to my satisfaction).

I'll be around to lay out the case on Toast and ooba (oh yeah, there's a case there) in a bit.

(Only potential issue with the ooba wagon is that I'm pretty sure given his play so far ooba is Mafia, not Cult.)

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Ludi, get over to the hydra QT so we can reason this out.

2. Why are you

totally

ignoring the mafia when there is multiple times more mafia than cult currently in this game

Do you have information that I do not? I was thinking that there may be 2 cult members to start so if one gets killed today or killed at night there is still another around to recruit. Because having the recruiter be BP last game was so fucking imbalanced it wasn't even funny. Also think there is probably an SK and probably a 3 man scumteam, so 6 anti-town/mafia in total.

The way you stated the above makes me think you have inside information on the setup.

Unvote
Vote: Candle Jack

Nah, Ludi's just making bad assumptions (like, say, assuming that a Cult that starts with only a single person is balanced in double-day).

Honestly, the biggest thing in favor of a Cult with recruiter and backup recruiter is the double-day mechanic, which is very very powerful for us (and from a design standpoint the potential of "get rid of Cult if you lynch correctly twice D1" which mirrors regular Cult recruiter getting lynched D1 is very, very elegant). I'm inclined to agree on a starting 2-man Cult.

On the flip side, I'm pretty sure you are SIGNIFICANTLY underestimating the power of the Mafia (or possibly Mafias, but I have my doubts given the special rules). Four players is standard at 24 players, and since double day is so powerful I strongly suspect that we're dealing with a 5-man faction (plus 2-3 neutrals/Traitors), outside shot of two 4-man factions or a 6-man faction. (Also note that double day significantly weakens the Cult - since we can lynch 2 Cultists per day and they presumably can only recruit once per night, the usual "lynching recruits doesn't really do anything to stop the Cult" doesn't apply.)

Something to deal with later, at any rate.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

@CandleJack: You still need to answer what makes my tone passive and WHY a passive tone is scummy.

@Andrius: Given that he said that in the giant 25 previews I got whilst creating that post, STFU.
also, your speculating too much.

We don't even know who the scum is, which of white/black is cult, how the non-lanterns are going to fit in...all spec and no hunting, aside from some ooba-defense and mastin buddying....interesting *takes notes*

Why is the quoted post scummy: Because you described Andrius's speculation as "interesting" when clearly you meant "scummy".

Why is being passive scummy? Because there are two parts of a scum mindset that favor being passive - wanting to avoid scumhunting (admittedly not as strong here due to known multiscum) and the survival motive (being active tends to make enemies which can get scum lynched).

CandleJack asking for a claim already pings me as scummy (even if its only a name-claim).

BULL. FUCKING. SHIT.

Can you seriously not figure out why I would question Andrius over hiplop's ROLEBASED attack on vezok? Or are you refusing to do so because you're scum and want a mislynch?

I WON'T be elaborating on this further.

[Candle Jack]

Let's get one thing straight
- Black lantern(s) are mod-confirmed to be cult (Dueling cults is fun to speculate on but barring new info, I'll just assume it's one cult)
- Really shouldn't matter who the scum team is right now
- "Lynch scum for the first lynch; lynch cult for second lynch" is funny. Cult's obviously the growing threat and trust me - we are going to have a hard time lynching CR even if two lynches are spent on the cause.

Also, finally, Andrius is not cult - so your votes are better used elsewhere.

I'll whittle down the rest of the list for possible CRs and come up with a lynch list - expect a post on this in

(expired on 2011-07-31 15:59:59)

Take a good look, everyone - ooba just dropped the single largest possible tell in a multiscum game.

He wants us to focus exclusively on the Black Lantern cult instead. There are at least two gaping problems here:
- Cult growth will be weaker than in a game with a single lynch per day, since town can outlynch Cult.
- So, what happens when we spend, say, three game days focusing lynches on Cult (assuming 4-5 kills per cycle [lynch x2, Mafia kill, SK kill, Vig kill?), managing to get a few of them but not finding the leader? Well, unless we managed to accidentally catch a Mafioso or two along the way we probably LOSE, because that would leave about 10 players alive and we're probably dealing with a larger-than-normal Mafia group.

See, I'd say the wiser course of action is to lynch scummy players D1 and start focusing on one faction once we've seen a few flips from the other faction.

Now, why does ooba want us to focus exclusively on one scumgroup D1? Because he's scum from the other faction (Mafia) and wants to a) buy a pass for not hunting other members of his faction and b) potentially buy his faction a free pass into lategame.

Dogpile on ooba, everyone, he's not town. We can find the Cult Recruiter with the second lynch, kay?

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Ooba
Andrius
Candle
nopoint
Kast
Bogre(Friend)
ToastyToast/marco/Ghost*

Our lynches today should be among these names.



If anyone disagrees, they better make a DANG strong argument.

Yeah, here's the argument that invalidates this: You're probably not town.

Remember how I brought up Mafia 92 earlier? I brought it up because your play there is EXTREMELY similar to your play here - enough so that I suspect that your win condition is the same in both games (I've NEVER seen you pull anything like this "must lynch within these names" stick outside of that game, and I remember playing with you a fair bit before my site break).

As a double-check (I HAVE been offsite a while), I've been reading through your recent completed games. I don't see ANYTHING like this in them (Mafia 125, Mafia 129, Mafia 132, etc.).

I'm not sure what faction you're in, or for that matter whether you're even IN a faction (Neutral seems likely - as I noted, your play here is VERY similar to your play as Lyncher in Mafia 92 - in which case you can wait for later since Cult and Mafia are larger threats), but I'm not going to rule out lynching a large number of players just because a single nontown player says so.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Never mind on mastin, regardless of how much his play is off I forgot something very important (thank you Ludi for reminding me).

Not very trusting of ooba's Governor claim, but it's probably not worth wasting a lynch to test.

Unvote, Vote: Toogeloo

for obvious reasons. (If I'm right, I have to applaud dana for adapting the role I think he's using for this game.)

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

1: And I see classic OMGUS. 2: You're speaking, Tar, instead of your other head, and I have a fair guess as to why. But still. 3: If you bothered to do your homework, you'd realize that I do this in all of my games. I've been in every New York game, as well as Powerrox's Mini and Mini 1180. (Plus Newbie 1048.) In pretty much all of them, I forced an "X or Y" on others. "Ald or nobody", "zdenek or me", you get the idea. It's my style. Has been since I came back. Your failure to realize this, makes you scum.

4: It's not only that you're using meta wrong--it's that you're using meta at all, really, instead of paying attention to in-thread reasoning. To quote the guy who invited me to this game,
"Meta is how you lynch town. Scumhunting is how you lynch scum. The two have nothing in common."*

(*Not quite, but close enough. Meta is a valuable tool, but it is just that--a tool. Using it as a foundation of a case against someone is just asking to be called scum. I've got a ramble on the subject of meta, but it's best left for MD. I do not like MDiscussion inside a game.)

5: You're voting ooba, who's on that list. Yet you're arguing that my list is wrong, because you don't think I'm town. The two mix extremely poorly.

3: I DID my homework (only way I can get a fucking read on you). I've seen play from you SIMILAR to what you're doing here, but this continued "must lynch within this set of players" and joking references to mod questions (unless dana pulled a "let's imitate Tar roles") is very unusual.

Doesn't matter right now given what Ludi pointed out, so whatever.

4: Don't even try to give me shit about "he's using meta so he must be scum". I try not to use it as my only tool (there's quite a few more reliable tells, though several take a while to kick in), but "your play here reminds me of PLAYER X's actions back in COMPLETED GAME" is NOT a scum tell and I'm not about to let you get away with claiming otherwise.

Hell, you should know this mastin, you played in games with me enough back before my site break. If you want a more modern example, go take a look at Mafia Invictus.

5: I was voting ooba because he's independently scummy. I wasn't going to stay off the wagon of a player I think is Mafia just because a player I think is neutral posts a list which I suspected had ulterior motives.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Gonna

Unvote: vezok

, since my complaints about him have been cleared up and

Vote: ooba

for reasons that have been mentioned--his deadline's running out soon, also, so we should see some fun stuff soon. I must say, I'm quite entertained by these ACCIDENTAL MOD PM SHENANIGANS. Dare I be so bold as to ask for clarification?

I'm finding myself suspicious of mastin2, as well. There's a lot of throwing about of names and alignments, but not really any justification of them. The VCA is especially misleading; what with the whole Day 1 just began and nobody's flipped yet thing, it disguises more of the same baseless name-bandying as something more substantial.

Andrius is still terribly misguided.

Gut is SCREAMING about this post, reads "not genuine" as fuck. Also IIoA given that he's got all these comments about theory and game events but isn't using them to push towards a conclusion about who the scum are.

Looking back at ISO, I don't see any evidence of scumhunting earlier - his only votes have been on players implicated by other players claiming rolebased.

I don't see this kind of post coming from a Mafioso, especially if ooba is scum. It DOES make sense for a CR, though. Moreover, suspecting ooba AND mastin suggest he's from the one faction that I'm pretty sure neither of them belong to.

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we may have found our Cult Recruiter.

HoS: Apokalyptika

, will vote once Toogeloo is dealt with.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

With a Red Lantern down I'd rather take out the probable Cult Recruiter first, actually. Ooba can wait until tomorrow.

Vote: Apokalyptica

for reasons mentioned earlier.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Frozenmirror;

I asked these questions to you:

@Frozen

1. What specifically sounds like scum andius instead of town andrius?
2. Do you think his attempt to try and break the setup is more likely to come from someone anti-town?
2a. Also, why do you immediatly discourage talking about the possibility of breaking the setup?
3. What sort of massclaim are you talking about, the one we are currently doing, or something else?

~~~~

Apok,

1.

Heh. So the post you quoted, in which I directly make accusations against mastin,

This statement of yours is disingenious. You do not, in fact, make any sort of direct accusation towards mastin or about his reads that you disagree with, you say this,

I'm finding myself suspicious of mastin2, as well. There's a lot of throwing about of names and alignments, but not really any justification of them.

Which is very passive and vague, and not direct at all.

What exactly makes you suspicious about mastin?
Which reads do you agree with, and which do you disagree with, and why?

2.

Vote: ooba I just noticed the specifics of tans' claim. I thought he might have misunderstood, but evidently he explicitly gave his powers to Luthor? Not really buying it.

So despite disagreeing with mastin extensively, you would rather vote ooba over the fact that some flavor is tickling you chin in just the wrong way? Now, I could see you getting on ooba if you think his ability is anti-town, or his play, but sheeping a wagon because someone else refers to his FLAVOR in a way that doesn't site right with you is a terrible reason to vote.

3.

Andrius is still terribly misguided.

Why? I can't believe how many throwaway reads you think you can get away with here.

4.

The point is that these orange guys are up to no good.

This is just weird. It screams of trying to chain lynches off of one of their flips, or just cast mass suspicion around. Can you explain what you mean here?

[Candle Jack]

Unvote

This apok wagon seems to be going nowhere fast despite the awesomeness of it.

~~~~

preview: I'm ready to hammer on ooba.

[Candle Jack]

Time is now.

VOTE: OOBA

[Candle Jack]

Well then.

Giant hammering intent

FOS: OOBA

[Candle Jack]

CANDLE JACK explain yourself now, boy.

I would, except that *I* don't know what the hell Ludi was thinking there with that attempted ooba hammer. Best I can figure out from my questions on the subject so far is that he had a bad case of (paraphrasing) "OMG I get a chance to hammer I WANT TO HAMMER HAMMER TIME".

Apparently he wasn't listening to my lecture about "ooba might be scum, but we can lynch him tomorrow because HIS BEHAVIOR SUGGESTS MAFIA AND I WANT TO LYNCH THE CULT LEADER TODAY AND THAT CULT LEADER IS PROBABLY APOK".

Seriously, is it possible to have a role where one hydra head is town and the other is scum? Because I'm starting to wonder given the way Ludi is acting lately.

Unvote, Vote: LadyLambdadelta

for testing purposes. And because LLD is probably scum given tone in 689.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Correction: Is it possible to have a role where one hydra head is town and the other is scum *outside of a Tarhalindur game*?

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

HIS BEHAVIOR SUGGESTS MAFIA AND I WANT TO LYNCH THE CULT LEADER TODAY AND THAT CULT LEADER IS PROBABLY APOK

If that were the case you wouldn't have unvoted Apok and stated intent to hammer ooba.

Seriously, is it possible to have a role where one hydra head is town and the other is scum? Because I'm starting to wonder given the way Ludi is acting lately.

Smooth.

Who the hell said I was the one who unvoted?

And no, it's not smooth, it's not forced, I'm just getting really annoyed right now.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Tar, it wouldn't matter if someone shifted your vote UNLESS YOUR VOTE WAS STUCK.

Because it's 12 to lynch, and your vote would have been the hammer, just you POSTING THAT IN THREAD should have hammered him, if your vote works.

Because even if your vote can secretly be CHANGED, it would have landed on Ooba for a split second at the LEAST and resulted in his lynch.

In other words, if your vote moves onto me, you or Ooba have some explaining to do.

If your vote doesn't move, someone froze your vote.

ARE YOU EVEN READING THE FUCKING GAME?

NIKANOR WAS UNDER THE IMPRESSION THAT I UNVOTED APOK AND THEN LUDI TRIED TO HAMMER.

I POINTED OUT THAT THIS WAS NOT THE CASE.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FACT THAT I AM APPARENTLY UNABLE TO VOTE OOBA.

[Candle Jack]

EBWOP: - TAR

[Candle Jack]

CJ I assume you're claiming ignorance to this whole votesticking business?

Correct.

Sorry, picked up my prod. Relatively caught up. Actually not sure what took so long for the Ooba lynch to reach this point. Probably has something to do with all that pointless LLD suspicion being thrown around, despite the fact that she's damn near confirmed town based on some of her earliest posts. Also, just to see if I understand this, I'm scum because I assumed people were taking what I had also assumed was a mod error (what with me getting a deleted PM from the mod and such) to be mod-confirmation of town status? A status that several people are now challenging? Before the messages went out, I had a scummy read on Friend. But, no, he got a message, he's tots safe though no one knows what the message said. However it's cool to suspect CJ after finding out he got the same message? Seems hypocritical to me.

But speaking of CJ, I'm assuming we're waiting to see what the heck is going on with his vote not going through?

Uh, where does this "finding out he got the same message" come from? I don't remember anything about this.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

OH CRAP. I thought of a possibility.

Let me check when nopoint unvoted Apok.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Can I get one - and ONLY one - volunteer to vote Apok and IMMEDIATELY try to move their vote off?

I think I may know the kind of ability we're dealing with here.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Okay, nobody else vote for Apok until we've had a vote count.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Tar: Which role are you thinking of?

Tessa Testarossa (Mind Screw 3) - specifically the Brand ultimate (and its "targeted player cannot be unvoted for rest of game" aspect).

Though why it would be a Rapid Action here confuses me.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Okay, so it's not a Brand and somebody just locked down our vote.

Somebody want to claim that? (*glances at mastin*)

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

CLAIM THAT SHOT NOW.
CLAIM IT CLAIM IT CLAIM IT.
TOWN =/= BULLETPROOF.
FOR FURTHER EVIDENCE READ LAST GAME.
BULLETPROOFS WERE SCUM, SCUM, AND SCUM.

Actually I'm bulletproof so this theory is terrible. Scum probably tried to daykill me.

KILL IT WITH FIRE.

I'd vote Nik for that claim, but there's a small but important problem with that...

HoS: Nikanor

---

In other news, I thought it was blatantly clear by now that there was at least one Blue Lantern in the game.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Yeah,

mastin2's case pretty much boils down to "these X players are scum and CJ is in them" plus Ludi's hammer attempt (and he can justify that himself when he gets back).

---

Wait, people still haven't figured out that our so-called Masons are actually a Vehmgericht?

Seriously, people.

---

TAR THERE HAS BEEN A BLUE LANTERN IN THE GAME FOR AWHILE NOW.
YOU'RE NOT PAYING ATTENTION.

Yeah, but some people don't seem to have figured it out.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Vezok. What does your freezer ability do? If you don't want to answer this, tell me whether it's a day ability and whether you used it on someone yesterday.

I

think

vezok targeted CJ yesterday. It doesn't say much about either vezok or CJ's alignment, but it does explain a lot.

I fail to see how a vote-freezing ability makes sense on town. If you think that vezok is the source of the vote freeze, why aren't you voting him?

And for that matter, why the hell out your suspicions BEFORE vezok answered? There's NO town motivation for that.

HoS: zMuffinMan

, with intent to vote for second lynch (after Apok flips cult).

----

Okay so guess what? I fucked up the OMGENIUS gamebreaking a bit. Luckily, it can still be salvaged.

No more WLs claim EXCEPT the following.

If you are one of the following please state whether you have received a ring yet:
- Andrius (assuming no)
- Candle Jack
- WeyounsLastClone
- GhostWriter
- ToastyToast (assuming no)
- Apokalyptika
- Oversoul

No need to have someone out themselves when they aren't in lynching range.

No ring here.

---

Vote: Apok

for reasons provided yesterday. (Not sold on WLC, I've seen him act like this as town.)

Now I need to read the rest of the ~8 pages that cropped up.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

I probably skimmed over something, but why are we announcing "Oh btw I activated your abilities last night, who now has a PR?"... or am I missing something with this delayed white ring thing?

This makes a lot of sense. It probably is prudent to reveal at some point what you people here are planning on doing because outting all of our (unrecruitable?) power-roles for a plan that 'could' or 'could not' work is not a very good strategy

Just to be clear, what type of scum are you accusing me of being? Cult or Redscum or other scum or not sure?

I find this line of argumentation highly suspect. Why does it matter which of the anti-town factions we think you are as long as we recognize anti-town intent from your play and actions? The only reason you plan on asking this question is if someone attempt to put you into one of the groups you can strawman the argument by saying, well, I don't fit into that group, (be it cult, redscum whatever,), so I must not be scum and your argument is invalid! It doesn't work like that muffin.

? Because he was right the first time. I also think its a really bad gambit.

If he was right the first time, that obviously means you believe he is town, or at least some sort of cop. Can you clarify what you thought his alignment was yesterday and now today, because from reading this I get the impression you think he was a town cop (whether or not this is true is irrelevant, its what you thought), and today you are later accusing him of not being a cop but of being some kind of scum cop (?)? I can't see how you would make this switch logically.

I'm willing to lynch Nik now. If he's scum, and we leave him, we'll be in martyr syndrom and if he's jsut an arrogant ad ballsy townie who's willing to fake claim SK results on someone he thinks is MAFIA Jailkeeper, then he's a retard that made a false clai mdesigned to keep mafia alive longer and lull the town into a foolish assumption.

Hold on what is going on with this statement. First, what does martyr syndrom mean to you in context of this game? Second, the fact that you acknowledge someone could be a ballsy townie but you are willing to lynch them anyones is not a town mindset. Thirldy, from the progression of actions nikanor jokingly (?) claimed a SK result on toasty, toasty over-reacted and then claimed JK, and then nikanor argued that he was probably a scum jailkeeper. He didn't fake a result on someone he thought was a mafia jailkeeper, he faked a result on someone who after several actions transpired he now thinkis is a mafia jailkeeper.

Not sure what you're also talking about with keeping mafia alive longer and lulling the town into anything. This post is disingenious.

FOS: KAST

(Nikanor said many of the same things in 1024)

The JK role working as normal is weird..

I don't know if I want to tip my hand yet.

If you can prove toasty is lying, or dishonest, state so.

You think they gave scum fake WL PMs? I don't know, bro.

Why do you think this?

[Candle Jack]

-Oh hi there, CandleJack. When's the other head going to explain the quickhammer attempt, what with ooba flipping town and all? Also, I'd like to know if you think a specific faction froze your vote yesterday.

I have no idea which faction or person froze our vote yesterday, and I don't know why you think we would have a clue why who did it. Who do you think froze our vote yesterday? Also, when are you going to explain your vote on obba, what with him flipping town and all?

Nikanor's "result" and all the resultant flailing is hilarious, given that he claimed he was faking yesterday.

I take it by flailing you mean scum fakeclaiming and then getting frustrated? What did you mean by flailing, especially since you say later you consider him confirmed town,

Why in the nine hells are you voting Nikanor just because of a stupid gambit? He's pretty much confirmed town.

Flailing is not the word I use to describe people I consider confirmed town.

I delayed oversoul.

This is awesome. What I think this game needs is more vague and cryptic claims coming from all angles. What does this even mean?

That's mistating my point; I don't want a Nik lynch, but I'm willing to lynch him.

Thanks for clarifying your antitown intentions.

Oh, and while I'm at it, I'm going to vote: Andy, with understanding that I'm quite willing to lynch cult if someone actually makes a good case.

How does this even make sense? If someone is acting anti-town and scummy, you'll only place a vote down on them if you can get them to configure to a view where they are cult?

Why are you avoiding the question?

I hardly avoided anything, I answered it already. It doesn't really matter to me which of the anti-town factions you belong to if we lynch you and you flip anti-town. What are you hoping to gain out of this question?

[Candle Jack]

It interests me. Apart from the fact that your whole "recognition of anti-town intent" is that I asked vezok a question and didn't assume he's scum (ya, totally anti-town, my apologies), I just want to know specifically whether or not you think I'm cult or mafia or something else. If you don't have an answer, just say so. No need to tiptoe around the issue.

The only reason you would be asking this question is because if you are scum of some sort you think you've significantly distanced or established yourself apart from whatever antitown team you're on to be confident. Confident enough that if I do correctly place you a scum team you could 'prove' that is impossible based for whatever reasons on actions you've taken. Its equally likely you could be some solo third party, (could be anything quite frankly), so again, I'm going to say, anti-town.

[Candle Jack]

Also, why are you only saying what happened from Nikanor's perspective? That was NOT a joking tone, and that was NOT an overreaction

I think it is highly likely Nikanor is town. It seemed joking to me from the outside. What specifically, am I saying that is coming from 'Nikanors perspective' that is bothering you?

Delayed means that his actions will resolve the next night instead of this one.

um, why did you do this? Did you have a scum read on him going into night, because that is the only way delaying someone's action make sense from a town point of view.

I clearly stated my preference to lynch cult over mafia, but as I didn't see any merit to the arguments against WLC and Apok as cult, I instead voted the most obvious mafia member, Andy.

For one I happen to think Andrius is town, not 'the most obvious mafia member' at all. And my point stands, if someone else is acting anti-town and most people agree on this, (and you too possibly), but think he is mafia, you are saying you wouldn't place a vote down on them because they 'aren't cult'?

That wasn't addressed to you, it was addressed to me. Please try to read in context. You get distorted and completely wacky interpretations when you do that.

Oh thanks I didn't realize at all. The point here was that Apok used a verb most common to scum 'flailing' to describe someone he thinks is 'confirmed town'. There is a dissonance here. I could care less that he addressed it to you.

2) I was in a game with Nikanor in which the scum-team fake-claimed masons and won. So yeah, the connection worries me a lot.

Is this the game where another set of masons had already flipped and the scum masons that had claimed day one were both still alive? There is a clear difference between these cases

[Candle Jack]

@CJ,

Just to be clear, what type of scum are you accusing me of being? Cult or Redscum or other scum or not sure?

Also, why does it matter that I outed my suspicion before vezok answered?

1) Unsure, leaning Red given D1 play (Toog vote could be a bus, rest of play suggests Mafia "hunt Cult first" motivation).
2) Because you're giving your target a lifeboat rather than giving them the chance to out themselves as scum with their own words. I have trouble seeing a town motivation for that (and if you ARE town you need to quit doing that at once, so it's a win-win to call you out on it).

Why does it matter which of the anti-town factions we think you are

Why are you avoiding the question?

Probably because Ludi was waiting for me to get back to answer. That would be a good guess, methinks.

---

Ultimatum time: If you are town and responsible for the vote freeze yesterday, CLAIM IT IN YOUR NEXT POST.

My operating assumption is that it is a scum ability (*probably* Red Lantern, WWTD suggests it's a Mafia ability rather than a Cult or SK ability) but I'm not sure about that. As such, we're going to treat that ability as the equivalent of being a Miller - if you don't claim it now and do claim it later we will lynch you on sight.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Note: Unsigned Candle Jack posts are from Magister Ludi.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Tans, honestly, I was originally suspicious you were mafia of you after reading through Day 1, but after your interaction with Andy today, I am fairly positive you are not mafia.

This is terrible logic. You are basing assumptions about whether people are town or scum, (here, tans is town, and you list lists vezok as scum) based on your presumed knowledge of Andrius alignment which has not yet revealed and I strongly believe to be town. This means your chaining lynches and clearing other people for no apparent reason based on your own read which is probably incorrect.

---

FOS: Peregrine

You list you suspects here:

More suspicious of:
WLC
Apok
Tant
Andrius

But your first post in the game is this vote on us with no reasoning and you seem to abandon it all together. It reads like you're talking out of your ass when listing people you think are anti-town or not. Not to mention the fact you seem anti-MrSub who at that time was claiming to be able to break the game.

Caught up.

Read everything through night with ooba/Toog flips, will go through with new flips. Until that's done,

Vote: CandleJack

@MrSub- Why claim? I don't feel like the game was broken, so not sure why you did it

Also, as I am finding Kast largely townish,

Why?

~~~~

Unless I was misdirected andy is one hundred percent not cr. Though he could be mafia

What are you talking about and how do you know this?

[Candle Jack]

Are you actually going to tell me why you tried to quickhammer, or are you going to clumsily try to dodge the question again? Also, protip: Being on a townie lynch =/= trying to quickhammer that townie, nice try.

I never dodged any question. We basically started and drove the wagon on ooba on circumstances that legitimately looked like cult to us. We were more than happy to vote for him the entirety of day one, but only shifted onto you after the first lynch because we had suspicion of you and we thought you had a higher chance of flipping cult recruiter. Once I realized your wagon was going nowhere, with only our vote on it, I made to shift back to ooba who I had thought was cult the entire first day.

Now, its not just you being on a townie lynch, its your reasons and excuses you make to hop onto it. Here is your first vote for ooba. You sheep the reasons you say 'have already been mentioned', a good majority of which come from us. You first sheep us and then try to blame us for suspecting that same player? This is warping logic here.

since my complaints about him have been cleared up and Vote: ooba for reasons that have been mentioned--his deadline's running out soon, also, so we should see some fun stuff soon.

And your second reason for voting him is equally as bad.

In other news, ooba is still WIFOMing and frantically scrambling for survival. Vote: ooba I just noticed the specifics of tans' claim.

You then try and chain tans lynch off on top of ooba's lynch as well.

I thought he might have misunderstood, but evidently he explicitly gave his powers to Luthor? Not really buying it. Earlier, he was fairly eager to tie himself to ooba, but now he's backing off quite a bit with the whole cross-role-PM confirm thing. The point is that these orange guys are up to no good.

You mention again on day one you think tans is some sort of anti-town

People I feel to be anti-town: tans, for reasons previously stated.

Yet you haven't mentioned him at all today. Especially since you considered him a high chance of flipping anti-town, totally not mentioning him again is a point against you.

Then you have the gall to say something peregrine does is scummy:

Reeks of laying a foundation to chain lynches, especially with double lynches.

When you yourself did the exact same thing, with tans and ooba.

[Candle Jack]

Two quick notes, hopefully more from this head shortly.

1)

Tarhalindur head is V/LA until Wednesday. (Mostly a preemptive measure, I'm not sure what my internet situation will look like.) Ludi to the best of my knowledge has normal access.

2) I'm guessing this game is using Green Lantern 48 flavor for the Mafia (alliance between Red and Yellow Lanterns).

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Oh right, nearly forgot about this post while rereading.

THIS IS BULLSHIT FOR MULTIPLE REASONS.
NIKANOR IS COPYING THE SCUM-GAMBIT FATE PULLED IN FIRE EMBLEM MAFIA

I'm Star Sapphire, JAILKEEPER.
I FUCKING JAILKEPT Nikanor last night
That means
1) He couldn't have gotten a result on me
2) I'm too hot to not be in this game
3) Nikanor may have been the target of a kill, but he also had bulletproof. CALLING EVIL CULT OF FAKE MASONS

So don't you guys dare even think this isn't a one on one. Lynch nikanor or lynch me.

Vote:Nikanor

Jailkeeper? It's possible, but I have my doubts.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

Let me reread the beginning part of this day again. Our vote is probably going to wind up among {Kast, Peregrine}

[Candle Jack]

Vote: PeregrineV

[Candle Jack]

Andrius, why is WLC a better lynch than peregrineV?

[Candle Jack]

Kast is vezok still mafia for you?

[Candle Jack]

Who is the scum roleblocker again?

[Candle Jack]

Out of the two players GW and WLC, I would probably support Ghost because I can't really see the WLC case (and Andrius never came through with his promise, meh), but I believe that is still an inferior lynch to PeregrineV.

Nikanor, any chance of switching over?

[Candle Jack]

Apok used his vote steal on CJ. That is a fact. What I don't understand is why he'd use it on a) a person not generally thought to be town, and b) a person voting for him. If I were Apok, I wouldn't use that ability on the guy voting for me, for fear that it would trace back to me. The best explanation for why he used it on CJ is distancing.

If anything, this is a perfect reason why me being mafia makes no sense at all. After we lynched Toog, I went straight onto Apok, and there was a very real chance at the beginning of the day I could get him lynched. If I was mafia, no way would I be willing to bus a buddy having already lost another scum member in the first lynch of day one. I'm sure he used his ability when his wagon was not picking up steam so It would look bad when we tried to change our vote, either that day (or maybe subsequent days?).

(I also continued to pound him here on part one of day two.)

Actually, I want to test if his power is still in play here.

Unvote

[Candle Jack]

Ok, back on the PeregrineV wagon

Vote: Peregrine

Has a little heat on him, so he thinks making an entire list of all players with their roles will look very helpful and 'townie', instead of pinpointing who he thinks is scum.

I'm pretty solid on this lynch.

[Candle Jack]

nopoint, I don't think quickwagons are necessarily bad, the back end/50% of the Apok wagon took place over a very short period of time.

That being said, PeregrineV is still the best lynch for today.

[Candle Jack]

Is GW hammered? Andrius was already on the wagon I thought.

Not to late for a PereV lynch here guys.

preview: so maybe not?

[Candle Jack]

Yeah, claiming your targets isn't a good idea. We basically want the cult recruit to fail sometimes, otherwise they're slowly going to grow out of control, and claiming who we're going to target lets them maneuver around some of the power roles out there.

The less claiming, the better actually.

[Candle Jack]

Stop claiming.

I'm not exactly sure what andrius and tans are, and its best not to delve too deep. We want to limit the amount of information we give cult. If they're roleblockers, great, they can block people. If they aren't its not a good idea to let cult or mafia know that.

There are many things that could go wrong with your plan. For one, cult may now have roleblocking powers of their own, or any number of ways to get around an assigned list of people blocking them. We also don't know the alignments of everyone currently in this game, so it is quite possible that cult and/or scum and trying to influence who to action on tonight so their faction isn't effect detrimentally by whatever town is planning to do.

And that is glossing over the fact that there is still a scum team out there, and they would like nothing more than all the town power roles to claim so they know where they are standing.

And you also addressed another concern, if one of you is in fact not town aligned, this whole planning thing becomes seriously anti-town skewed, and starts to hurt town.

[Candle Jack]

meh, Nikanor, I don't think toasty is the play today regardless, he has a very very low chance of flipping cult recruiter, who we want to be lynching as soon as possible over possible mafia candidates.

Mass claiming of any sort is still very bad. I'll basically skimmed the last five pages, but that looked to be the upshot of what several players are trying to do.

I'm not a big fan of GhostWriter coming in, noticing the second largest wagon on WLC, and then voting it, yet I still think he isn't the right lynch. And of course, PeregrineV still draws breath.

[Candle Jack]

I actually have my own thoughts on the miller claim. Basically, its only of relevance right now if you think he is the cult recruiter who claimed miller to gain two or three nights to recruit before being lynched out of the game if he wasn't playing well or vigged if he was. To that effect, it makes no difference what sort of miller he claimed as long as it guarantees him several days of time. I'll reread him over to see if I can confirm my feelings or if he has actually been sliding under the radar.

Another thing concerning me here is the lack of people noticing PeregrineV AT ALL, and the way the GW wagon has just.... stopped, so that people can have round about arguments that appear to be leading nowhere. That sort of behavior is what I would expect of a scum or cult wagon when an important power-role is close to being lynched and the player is nowhere in sight/playing badly, a lot of empty rhetoric to derail the wagon at its zenith.

[Candle Jack]

Will get to this game in the morning.

[Candle Jack]

FINALLY back from V/LA and had a chance for a reread.

Point 1: There's lying scumbags somewhere in the list of players who have/had blocking/protective abilities. Probably two (either two Mafiosos or Mafioso/Cult).
Point 2: Does somebody want to claim responsibility for the creation of the Justice League masonry? Because if I don't see somebody claim it soon I'm going to assume that it is triggered, and that means there are scum in it (probably Mafioso + backup Cult Recruiter by What Would Tarhalindur Do?). I'm STRONGLY leaning towards WLC being the Mafia Roleblocker, and Nikanor as bulletproof backup cult recruiter makes a lot of sense to me.
Point 3: Kast/WLC, refresh my memory: What Lantern colors are you? I vaguely remember Green/Green, but want to confirm. (There's a reason for this that I will explain once you two have confirmed Lantern color - I *think* tans just outed himself as scum, but I'm not sure...)
Point 4: On a related note, SOMEBODY want to explain that ability that targeted me last night? More specifically, why the hell do I now have a colored ring that isn't a Blue Lantern ring (at least that *appears* to be the flavor behind me losing my original ability and gaining a new one).

Speaking of that, I have no problem claiming what my original role was: Saint Walker, regular doctor. Protected Andrius N1 and nopoint (oops) N2. (Speaking of that, either Nopoint's suicide was unstoppable or his death trigger was slightly delayed... flavor suggests the former.) I'd rather keep the new ability under wraps for now, but I'll claim it if necessary.

Vote: Blackberry

for now.

- Tar

[Candle Jack]

WLC and CJ can you confirm your full role name? "anti cult doctor" or what EXACTLY is ur title?

No, our role was simply doctor, not anti-cult doctor.

~~~
Mr. Sub, I'm not really sure what's got you convinced we're anti-town at all, and your reasoning here has left much to be elucidated upon, especially since you started with a blackberry vote, weakly switched to us, and are now proclaiming you 'don't see yourself switching', which is in contradiction to what you've been saying today and all game and seems to be topped off with weak reasoning.

Example here is;

UNVOTE: Blackberry
VOTE: Candlejack

Die faster.

At this point, we really don't see us voting for anyone but Candlejack.

I would like some more explanation than, "well, I randomly processed of elimination according to my own hidden formula, and thus you're cult recruiter", because that looks exceedingly like you're pulling stuff out of thin air with no real basis behind it. Especially since you say this,

Lynching mafia right now isn't the goal, so, yeah. This can be revisited later.

but don't seem to be actively taking an issue at all with people who are calling us

mafia

. Its pretty circular anti-town reasoning, especially since I think we've acted pretty pro-town this game.

~~~~

Anyways, having just dealt with succession II mafia, I can first hand say that claiming at all is a very bad idea in a cult game. Stop claiming for one thing, and doubly so if you are unrecruitable (!) Which makes no sense at all to be claiming. In that game, claiming could arguably said to be one of the main reasons town lost.


P:edits, will deal with in next post.

[Candle Jack]

Sorry, i've been pretty low access and was assuming Tar was going to be posting in this thread. I'll read the last few pages and get back in a bit.

[Candle Jack]

Ok.

So, we protected Andrius Night one because he was our biggest town read.
On night two, we protected nopoint for several reasons. One was that Friend was exceedingly adamant about him being town, we suspected some sort of role information to be at hand (and it was, as they were masons, though nopoint was recruited night one by then.) {maybe outside chance of a night zero recruit}. Plus, I also had a pretty good ( I thought) read on him being town so I convinced Tar to protect there.

Anyways, at the end of the night last night, our role shifted (for reasons still unknown) from Doctor to Rolecop, in the orange lantern corps.

To that effect, I've been asking Tar to get his and expand on his third point, as he had some convoluted idea behind it, but seeing as he's been missing in action and mafia is not top priority right now, I'm going to wait on it.

It is, though, highly likely someone is totally lying/misclaiming what abilities they posses here, as there appear to be way too many roleblocks and I'll sort through myself to try and figure out what, if anything, that means.

Also, going to reread to try and hit the cult recruiter. To that effect nopoints day two, (and possibly day one) will be of import.

[Candle Jack]

On nopoint.

He seems pretty town on day one, probably ruling out a night zero recruitment. He seems oblivious to how the cult actually worked

I think cult would get a bland kinda fake-claim like a VT. Tans confirmation that Lex Luthor is in the game is more reason to think Ooba's not a fake claim,

Seems pretty read to pick a fight here with mastin

Spoiler: quote

LOL Unchanging "Cult Leader" list of 1 (option). You don't even pressure your read or explain your choice. You think making useless list can get you let you cruise through the Day?
THIS is OMGIA(wesome), it's clear and righteous and justified and it tell us who needs to die

Unvote.Vote: mastin2

Cult can wait. Get this scumbag off my back

Day two, however, is a lot less cohesive.

Nikanor is town and Toasty is genuine as fuk.

Lol at Kast for wanting a Nik lynch

I could settle for WLC lynch or both WLC and Apok. Me thinks we have good chance of cult poping there.

@Kast: I think BB's fine, considering he just replaced in
@inhim: Why is CJ, Andy and Kast in your list of baddies? Your list of town looks legit though

No third suspect yet. Maybe Andy for purposing painting me bad while I'm on a roll with lynching scum

Something doesn't feel right about the GW wagon. It's too fast to be on scum

Calls WLC and Apok cult specifically, and obviously neither flipped cult. Was wrong about the GW wagon.
Called Nikanor, Toasty, BB, CJ, Andy and Kast as all town

Wait .. how da fuck do you know Cult can begin to recruit on Night 1 ? In BNM cult didn't even appear till night something

In response to berry accusation of a night one recruit. I think its pretty obvious that Berry is not cult here, based on play and definitely role.

2> Why do you trust and love BB that much?

That read through wasn't the most productive, but it did help.
~~~~~~

And heres the list of players. nopoint being recruited night one is pivotal to this.

- Kast
- Andrius
- Candle Jack
- Blackberry
- hiplop
- Mr Subliminal
- ToastyToast
- vezokpiraka
- tanstalas
- Nikanor
- zMuffinMan
- inHimshalibe
- Oversoul

I know i'm not cult, and I heavily doubt Blackberry is as well;

- Kast
- Andrius
- hiplop
- Mr Subliminal
- ToastyToast
- vezokpiraka
- tanstalas
- Nikanor - was 'jailkept' by toasty night one. while this doesn't say anything about toasty (did nikanor confirm he got any confirmation of being jailkept?), it does rule nikanor out of being cult recruiter, as it seems apparent nopoint was recruited night one.
- zMuffinMan
- inHimshalibe
- Oversoul - was delayed by vezok. Same as with nikanor, these rules out oversoul of being cult recruiter. Also, this rules out

vezok

as well, because apparently oversoul got some sort of confirmation message, so vezok did action on oversoul night one. now, unless vezok is a double targeting cult recruiter/delayer, he's out.

Oversoul, if you got no role information that vezok actually delayed you, please speak up.

So, now we're onto this list

- Kast
- Andrius apparently is power stolen by tans?

(off of BB spread sheet?) Andrius, can you again confirm this? If so, both he and tans are gone.

(adding on to this is the fact kast tracked tans to andrius. I'll need to reread to see who claimed first, tans, andrius or kast.
- hiplop
- Mr Subliminal
- ToastyToast
- tanstalas
- zMuffinMan
- inHimshalibe

~~~

- Kast
- hiplop
- Mr Subliminal
- ToastyToast
- zMuffinMan
- inHimshalibe

Well here we are. pending a reread, going to rule out kast

- hiplop - claimed 'unrecruitable'
- Mr Subliminal ???
- ToastyToast -claimed jailkeeper
- zMuffinMan - claimed 'unrecruitable'
- inHimshalibe- claimed miller.

Of these, I do have suspicion on inhim for a miller claim, as it did exactly what a CR could hope, coast deep into the game based almost solely on his claim. I'm very interested in how his replacement acts when he gets here.

I''m down to two unrecruitable claims, a jailkeeper claim which is unconfirmed, and mr subliminal. I'm actually a little paranoid that one of the unrecruitable claims could turn out to be the cult recruiter, as no way town is going to want to lynch that claim and it allows deep coasting, again based on claim. I think if one of them was CR it would by far be hiplop, as his claim sort of dripped out weirdly, as if he wanted to claim unrecruitable expressly not to have suspicion on him.

Got to look at mr. sub again too. I think BB might be onto something with toasty though

So my little list would probably go hiplop -> Mr sub -> toasty.

[Candle Jack]

huh? Mr Subliminal claimed doctor?

[Candle Jack]

It actually doesn't appear that anyone has fakeclaimed an actual active role yet, so i'm going to lean towards the cult recruiter is part of the passive/unclaimed/halfclaimed role set (and there appear to be no vanilla townies in this game) {unless it is toasty}. Mafia probably have claimed their actual role as well, so searching through this list again after hitting the CR will be beneficial in that regard.

We've still got to explain where the 'attempted' (?) kill day one came from, the mastin kill day two, and the other night kills are coming from (doesn't appear to be anti-town SK unless last night the mafia hit peregrineV hoping for a CR flip and the third party killed friend)

(there is an alternative, like in Succession Mafia 2, where the CR could send a recruit to do the recruiting. Does anyone else think this is likely coming from dana (especially since SM2 wasn't over when this game begun))

~~~
Not buying that all the WL here are all town, especially since I've reread hiplop.


this claim by hiplop

I thought that too {all wl's being unrecruitable}, never bothered to claim

seems out of place considering nopoint was a mason WL lover and got recruited, and hiplops then had pretty sub par content since then. Seems distinctly like a fake claim

Vote hiplop

unless I missed something pretty important this is my number one pick for CR

[Candle Jack]

heh, When I've been low access completely across the boards here (6 posts in about 6 days or something) and Tar is missing in action, its not hard to see why we haven't posted massive amounts.

@Ludi's claim of Blue-Doc -> Orange-Rolecop seems strange.

Can you explain why exactly, considering thats what happened. What is stange, and what does that mean?

TBH, it seems more likely that CJ got recruited and perhaps he got a corresponding role change to assist his new faction.

Ok, so you think i'm a recruit and then vote me. For one thing, I'm not a recruit, but for another, voting a recruit when we're trying to hit the leader is actively stupid and anti town.

Given the RBs and claimed BPs, I don't buy that a doc is a necessary role in the first place.

Can you explain which RB's you believe and BP? Why do you think a doc is not necessary? Because we claimed last? If we had claimed one page one, you probably would switch it around to 'given a doc, i don't buy all these RBs are necessary."

Also with BB's claim confirming the missing role, plus the already confirmed watcher, my tracker, and another claimed watcher/tracker, game balance doesn't suggest/support a town rolecop.

who is confirmed watcher? (do you mean you?) What missing role? Is there a reason you believe any of these other roles?

[Candle Jack]

IF you mean kast, Yeah, I think its unlikely he is the CR as well. He quite possibly could be anti-town though, and maybe a recruit. Given that he's got info that confirms tans, it seems unlikely he could recruit and do whatever on the same night.

However, if you mean hiplop, I'm not so sure. Though, this needs answering

Hiplop, are you X of mastin fame?

[Candle Jack]

Well, I consider nopoint town based on two things, friends complete insistence on him being town, and how I thought his play was at the time (pretty town). Looking back on it in hindsight, there are differences that can be spotted when actually looking for them carefully.

But looking @ Andrius, he has been very CJ-is-town for, like, ever. If CJ was *hypothetically* CR, and his two recruits were in fact who he targetted each night (Andrius N1, then nopoint N2) that might actually make some sense...

I think this was established earlier today that killing comes before recruiting, so this situation is impossible.

[Candle Jack]

meh, I don't think you can just wave your hands and go "these players are not cult recruiter" based on a claim especially when considering it is pretty plausible the cult recruiter is either hiplop, sub, toasty, inhim or zmuffin.

[Candle Jack]

Why are we mass claiming? The last time town mass claimed, in Succession Mafia 2, led directly to a cult victory.

[Candle Jack]

huh? I claimed Saint Walker several pages back (and even bread crumbed in insanely heavily in the early game)

[Candle Jack]

Blackberry, hit me with your thought on hiplop

[Candle Jack]

No. Our flavor mentions our ring initially, as the power of hope working to enhance the power of the other corps, giving them an 'unbreakable shield'. Our ring has since changed color, with the ability to 'search peoples hearts'.

So yeah, we're now part of the orange lantern corps.

[Candle Jack]

BB, check out the part where hiplop claims unrecruitable, almost as a throwaway comment, and then doesn't really do much. I think he was given a fakeclaim (or just fakeclaimed) that he was unrecruitable so he would never get lynched (hopefully) and so he would never have to prove an ability which he couldn't prove.

[Candle Jack]

also look at d1 on vezok, and the subliminal ENTITY claim. Its pretty obvious I am indeed WL

It seems the most obvious/probable thing to me is that you were provided a white lantern fakeclaim, and can't figure out why people are suspecting you despite it. This wagon isn't going away because you pronounce yourself 'must be white lantern' over and over.

I claimed nonrecruitable, then went on V/LA ._. , thats why i "didnt do much"

it wasnt throwaway at all? it was the only thing in the post...

Yeah, and not doing much is a pretty big cult recruiter tell. Sliding through with not much suspicion and just surviving makes a lot of sense as cult recruiter, don't appear too suspicious, but also don't appear really overly town either.

And exactly, that's why it was a throwaway fakeclaim. Muffinman brings it up, and you, seeing that, decide to either add that onto your claim already almost like "yeah i'm unrecruitable too, just remembered", or it was provided already to you and you decided then was an opportune time to claim it. Its such a bad claim because there is no reason to claim unrecruitable. If you are, you know it yourself already. You want to make cult waste a potential recruit by hitting an unrecruitable player. Claiming unrecruitable in a cult game, and in this case in particular, looked like an effort to claim a role that town would be very wary of lynching, in an effort to, well, not get lynched.

Claiming at that point was definitely out of place, looks like a last second fakeclaim, and was a claim so that you wouldn't be lynched or have suspicion on you. Plus, claiming unrecruitable isn't provable at all, so you wouldn't have to worry about anyone calling you out on it (a la being tracked somewhere you said you weren't, etc.)

I think you're suggesting that we lynch white lanterns + miller one by one? Because that makes a fuckton of sense and is a very pro-town idea. No, really... ... ...

I'm actually suggesting we lynch those players I think most likely to flip cult recruiter, one by one, regardless of what they are or claim to be. That is pro-town.

But since most of your suspects have not claimed, and pretty much all of your non-suspects have already full-claimed or mostly claimed, why are you against a mass claim?

We only have one lynch. Forcing someone into claiming vig or similiar now is pretty anti-town, we want to keep cult as much as possible in the dark about what roles town has. Role means nothing when someone can be recruited, and by out all the roles it allows cult to play around the power roles. Seriously, go read succession 2 mafia, where town mass claimed and cult used that to win the game. It's exactly what

should not

happen here.

What happened to the activity of this game...?

A few votes on hiplop, and a lot of drop in activity it seems. Seems people are hoping the suspicion goes away here.