Mini 291: Clue Mafia.....Game Over!

[BabyJesus]

eh? what do you call this?

let's just finish off flay....

id say thats pretty bandwagon pushingish...
honestly though guys.. can we please pick up the conversation a bit... this is really starting to drag a bit.. BJ is the biggest offender, not having posted in 3 days

sorry

[BabyJesus]

BJ is NOT playing the way he usually does. I'm pretty sure he is scum. .

Because I didn;t post in this game for a bit I'm scum?

unvote, vote Tamuz

Talk about a reach. Seriously.

[BabyJesus]

Unvote: elvis_knits, Revote: BabyJesus

- elvis and I can "talk" tonight. Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.

what do you mean you talk at night....did I miss a claim somewhere?

[Tamuz]

You missed the point where you were claimed to be a mafia or SK.

[Fuldu]

Finish reading before you post, BJ. Flay already answered that question.

Obviously "talk" (quotes mine) was an analogy for the fact that I feel I can prove my role/innocence by being in the room with at least one other person tonight.

I think he overestimates the "obviously" part of that sentence, given that two people asked about it, but his explanation is a reasonable one.

[MeMe]

elvis and I can "talk" tonight. Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.

I don't get this. What do you mean that you and elvis can "talk" tonight? You're obviously not masons or you'd not suspect one another. And scum are people who

do

talk at night, so if BJ doesn't do that...well...

That's an inane analysis of what I said. If I was scum, would I announce it? If we (elvis and I) were masons, would we announce it D1? Obviously "talk" (quotes mine) was an analogy for the fact that I feel I can prove my role/innocence by being in the room with at least one other person tonight.

Wow. Such vitriol. It wasn't an "analysis" (inane or otherwise) -- it was me saying I didn't understand what you meant. I think you can admit that you worded it unnecessarily weirdly.

Tamuz - seriously, what's up? You're following me around the game voting for my people, and what's the "Flay Gaurentee" supposed to be?

Tamuz's reference to your guarantee came quite a while back -- why didn't you send up a flag about it earlier? If anyone should've noticed/commented on its weirdness, it should've been you.

I think he overestimates the "obviously" part of that sentence, given that two people asked about it, but his explanation is a reasonable one.

Flay's explanation may be reasonable -- but his attitude is, in my opinion, quite defensive.

Flay, please convince me that you haven't simply talked yourself out of the possibility of being lynched today by pretending that you'll be able to prove yourself tonight. I unvoted you because suggesting that we discuss the room aspect seemed more pro- than anti-town to me...but now I'm second-guessing that and wondering if it was simply diversionary.

And now something else I've been pondering: since I agree that it's unlikely that scum will be able to nuke an entire room, I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, scum has to be in the room with only ONE innocent in order to make a kill (which seems sensible as survivors would probably witness any murder).

[BabyJesus]

You missed the point where you were claimed to be a mafia or SK.

If that's what he's claiming, and he's willing to be lynched when I come up innocent, that's fine. I'm pretty sure it was a tongue-in-cheek comment however.

[elvis_knits]

And now something else I've been pondering: since I agree that it's unlikely that scum will be able to nuke an entire room, I'm starting to wonder if, perhaps, scum has to be in the room with only ONE innocent in order to make a kill (which seems sensible as survivors would probably witness any murder).

It could totally work that way, but I don't think it would be smart of scum to broadcast what room they will be in with their victim. I mean, we'll be looking at the other person in the room as the primary suspect. For that matter, even if it doesn't work that way, scum could set it up to look that way by killing only one of me and Flay.

Because we don't know how this works and because scum can manipulate us to think it works a certain way, I think we should concentrate on the normal he's-acting-fishy way of detecting scum, rather than trying to figure it out from game dynamics. (I won't discount game dynamics, but let's not rely on them).

I also feel a little cheated to let Flay go because we're trying out his hypothesis about proving he's town. But I am curious to see what will happen. And if he really can prove himself, that would be worth it.

Also, still disconcerted in Flay's and Tamuz's lack of reasoning for voting BJ. Lynching him just because he's BJ is

not helpful

.

[BabyJesus]

You missed the point where you were claimed to be a mafia or SK.

wait a sec, did we even have a night phase yet? I thought we started with day...

confirm vote: Tamuz

for using false pretenses to bandwagon hop...

[elvis_knits]

There are only two factions in this game: scum and town. If your role PM said you were scum, you win with the scum. If your role PM identified you as anything else, you win with the town.

Does this mean that all the scum are in one group? (AKA only mafia and no SK).

Just wondering if you'd phrase it this way if there were competing scum groups.

(I'm mostly wondering because Tamuz keeps talking about an SK).

[elvis_knits]

BJ's already quoted this twice, but I'm doing again anyway:

You missed the point where you were claimed to be a mafia or SK.

Why doesn't Tamuz just say "scum"? He goes out of his way to say "mafia or SK."

[Fuldu]

You missed the point where you were claimed to be a mafia or SK.

wait a sec, did we even have a night phase yet? I thought we started with day...

confirm vote: Tamuz

for using false pretenses to bandwagon hop...

As far as I can tell, that was just Tamuz being an ass, not suggesting that anybody had ever claimed they had an investigative result. He thinks you're scum and is becoming increasingly loud about it without anything I've seen even approaching the vicinity of an argument.

[Tamuz]

BJ's already quoted this twice, but I'm doing again anyway:

You missed the point where you were claimed to be a mafia or SK.

Why doesn't Tamuz just say "scum"? He goes out of his way to say "mafia or SK."

I haven't read our dear mod as closely as you, but yes I see now that Mafia is the correct way to phrase this.

Then again, I am reading all of this out of Flay. I never thought of Flay to be one to make chuck norris jokes so when I read

Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.

I take that rather seriously.

Other points:
*Once isn't a "keep talking"
* Interesting how elvis points out that there is one killing group, but makes an insinuation to scum having ability to kill two scum. Maybe Fruedian, maybe more knowledge of the killing process.
* Interesting as well how BJ shows up en masse now
* Flay is a talky, Seolic (if you will), player. I like following assumptions on the big talkers D1. Assume they are town with me, giving me a two person point of view. With the big talkers you can catch more mistakes this way, or see more perspective towards thinking others are scum. Without solid information I find this does work fairly well D1 as far as information gathering goes...

[BabyJesus]

tamuz in full spin mode I see....

[elvis_knits]

Then again, I am reading all of this out of Flay. I never thought of Flay to be one to make chuck norris jokes so when I read

Bj doesn't talk at night, he kills.

I take that rather seriously.

There's no reason to take that seriously when we are starting in DAY.

[elvis_knits]

* Interesting how elvis points out that there is one killing group, but makes an insinuation to scum having ability to kill two scum. Maybe Fruedian, maybe more knowledge of the killing process.

Interesting how Tamuz writes "scum" at every possible interval. Maybe Fruedian, maybe more knowledge that he is scum.

unvote; vote Tamuz

[bigAl]

* Interesting how elvis points out that there is one killing group, but makes an insinuation to scum having ability to kill two

scum

.

Is this supposed to say two

people

? If so, I very much see it as possible (unlikely, but possible). If not, then where/how did she say (or insinuate) that?

[Tamuz]

For that matter, even if it doesn't work that way, scum could set it up to look that way by killing only one of me and Flay.

That leaves the hallways quite open to "Scum could have multiple kills". With her already noted statement of no SK (although, thank you for reading the mod and correcting me).

You call me on saying SK and mafia, I affirm the idea of scum only being in this game as far as mal killing roles. I tell myself scum only scum only since mentioning a second killing group is not helpful thanks to your mod quote.

As to taking flay seriously, I don't see why not to, In what I have read with Flay I have never seen a reason to read what he says with an overly comical tone.

BJ, wash I believe.

[MeMe]

I need to see a count, please!

[Mr. Flay]

Unofficially

, I think this is where we're at:

Tamuz - 3 (bigAl, BabyJesus, elvis_knits)
BabyJesus - 2 (Mr. Flay, Tamuz)
elvis_knits - 1 (Bamboomancer)

Not voting: MeMe, kops, Fuldu, TSAGod

Except that I'm going to

Unvote: BabyJesus, Vote: Tamuz

to put pressure on the bandwagon (that's 4 of 6 needed, I believe) and because his behavior is more overtly irrational. He also hadn't made any comments about relying on me having some sort of Night Knowledge™ before yesterday. I'd be content lynching either today, though.

MeMe, you asked about why I didn't suspect Tamuz earlier. First of all, his votes have been following mine, so it'd be sort of odd for me to jump down his throat, yes? Also I was more concerned with the bandwagon on me earlier, and the people on it. Now that that seems dealt with for today, I'm looking elsewhere. I honestly have no idea what the "guarantee" was supposed to be, unless he honestly thinks we had a N1, in which case he should be committed, not executed. If I made a List it'd probably be something like:

1. Tamuz/BJ
   
2. elvis_knits/Bamboomancer
   
3. bigAl/MeMe
   
4. TSAGod/kops
   
5. Fuldu/Mr. Flay

Flay's explanation may be reasonable -- but his attitude is, in my opinion, quite defensive.

Flay, please convince me that you haven't simply talked yourself out of the possibility of being lynched today by pretending that you'll be able to prove yourself tonight. I unvoted you because suggesting that we discuss the room aspect seemed more pro- than anti-town to me...but now I'm second-guessing that and wondering if it was simply diversionary.

Okay, here's my POV: Players who can "talk themselves out" of a D1-with-no-preceeding-night lynch are just capable of composing rational defenses and rebuttals. I can't "prove" anything today, but tomorrow I will/should be able to, assuming I live through the night. One reason I voted for BJ originally was that he usually advocates the "run somebody up a pole" D1 approach to get to night, and I'm very curious about the fact that he hasn't in this game, except for a half-hearted attempt at me. Maybe it's a sign of his game maturing, or maybe it's a tell (or maybe he's just busy/uninterested, I suppose). But do "good" players (and I'm not great, but I at least have some skill at logic) usually get killed D1?

I wish I had more time to come in and post here; this is the only game I'm in right now on the site and I can't even make it here every day; it's very different than my older posting style, though I'm glad to see I'm still "Seolic".

Further catchup...

If that's what he's claiming, and he's willing to be lynched when I come up innocent, that's fine.

Who is "he" in this statement, BJ, me or Tamuz? I'm not willing to trade you one-for-one necessarily, although I think you're a better-than-average lynch for D1. Not as good as Tamuz right now, though.

Orbiting's "town or scum" comment might indicate one group, or only a pair of SKs, which would also make sense in a game this size. Obviously we'll know more after a day/night cycle.

[BabyJesus]

unvote, vote kops

\\pretty sure he's scum.

[BabyJesus]

unvote, vote kops

pretty sure he's scum

fixed

[elvis_knits]

What?

BJ, why did you just jump off Tamuz?

[BabyJesus]

What?

BJ, why did you just jump off Tamuz?

because I think kops is scum...

I'm still in favor of Tamuz claiming though, or I may hop on back

[MeMe]

vote: TSAGod

And why

not

?