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Post Post #825 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:03 am

Post by mikemike778 »

malpascp wrote:I skiped Mike's post.

I re-analyzed the game at night and I thought that scum would prefer Taz to direct their NK, as he was less likely to be blocked or investigated.

I choosed him because I had a weird gut scumread on him, and he was the scumiest from the "townish" group.


Why did you feel he was less likely to be blocked or investigated ? I'm still not buying this - you had a weird gut scumread on a player you previously was your biggest townread.
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Post Post #826 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:26 am

Post by Tazaro »

Shadow Dancer wrote:
I don't believe a word of your reasoning
and can't help myself but to also realize another astonishing fact about your play which is your absolute lack of scum hunting.

I did not consider things you said against me as strong as this^. But yet, I am the one you were voting for. Just saying.
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Post Post #827 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:28 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

Chuji Kunisada wrote:
Shadow Dancer wrote:@mal: You sound like you are exactly echoing M=Ws reasoning


Where's your attack on Mew then? I mean mal can't be scummy for that if Mew isn't. I mean you didn't even really go after Mew for that, post mike's catch (as a skim of your ISO shows).


You are missing the point. It's not about what each of them is doing but
how
they are doing it.

The differences are:
- M=W is not echoing some one else
- M=W is not claiming a block on his strongest/only town read.
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Post Post #828 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:31 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

Tazaro wrote:
Shadow Dancer wrote:
I don't believe a word of your reasoning
and can't help myself but to also realize another astonishing fact about your play which is your absolute lack of scum hunting.

I did not consider things you said against me as strong as this^. But yet, I am the one you were voting for. Just saying.


Is this a: "Hey, mal is scum!"-deflection? I would prefer you to find some scum on your own.
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Post Post #829 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:35 am

Post by LlamaFluff »

mikemike778 wrote:Remind me again why I can't role block Malp ...


Because if Tazaro is scum, Malp is town who RBed him N1. Why why why why why does malp-scum come in with a fake result that will get his partner lynched when someone else already claimed what is a pseudo-guilty?

Try again. If Tazaro is scum you can block the other RBer, M=W or KK replacement. If Tazaro is town its the RBers, nieghbors or KK (actually hydra too).
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Post Post #830 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:01 am

Post by farside22 »

Mission Cards:


Bookie
Polkadot tie
Shooter
Payoff
Race
Concrete Mixer
Cement
Thief
Jackhammer
Pier
Limo

Order of picking:


Chuji Kunisada
Jedo the Jedi
Me=Weird
Oversoul
TOGTFO
mikemike778
Shadow Dancer
malpascp
Kublai Khan
Llamafluff
Tazaro


Vote count:


Me=Weird (1) Oversoul
Chuji Kunisada (1) Me=Weird
Tazaro (3) malpascp, Shadow Dance, Jedo the Jedi
malpascp (1) Tazaro

not voting:

Kublai Khan, TOGTFO, Chuji, Llamafluff, mikemike778


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Deadline is Monday August 1st, 7:00am PST

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Post Post #831 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:48 am

Post by Tazaro »

Shadow Dancer wrote:
Tazaro wrote:
Shadow Dancer wrote:
I don't believe a word of your reasoning
and can't help myself but to also realize another astonishing fact about your play which is your absolute lack of scum hunting.

I did not consider things you said against me as strong as this^. But yet, I am the one you were voting for. Just saying.


Is this a: "Hey, mal is scum!"-deflection? I would prefer you to find some scum on your own.

If I say that malpascp is scum, I did indeed do scum-finding activity. Then it's a matter of evidencing scum, not finding it.
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Post Post #832 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:55 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

You haven't said "mal is scum", what you said was "Shadow, you should vote mal and not me."
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Post Post #833 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:02 am

Post by Tazaro »

I voted for him. I think it's fairly probable that he's scum.
*Light bulb* Perhaps scum with roleblocking ability planned to roleblock a role(s) that the Mafia thought could be a vigilante; the mod suggested that Pier was the place where other Lemmings could die, and Pier was the mission I chose. Scum also may not want to kill certain power roles they could use for themselves, perhaps doctor?
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Post Post #834 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:05 am

Post by Tazaro »

Double post:
Is it conceivable that a scum who did roleblocking might have assumed wrong about his ability to also nightkill?
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Post Post #835 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:10 am

Post by Shadow Dancer »

Now that we're talking about this: Please elaborate on the flavour that came with "Pier" to "explain" why it is a vanilla card.
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Post Post #836 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:18 am

Post by Tazaro »

The flavor: my eyes were to be attentive to the pier; doing nothing else but seeing the view.
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Post Post #837 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:41 am

Post by Chuji Kunisada »

Llama- why are you now saying roleblockers should roleblock players (other than neighbors/each other) now? I don't understand why you want kk replacement blocked. Why have you gone back on the decision that roleblockers should be negated?
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Post Post #838 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:39 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Chuji Kunisada wrote:Llama- why are you now saying roleblockers should roleblock players (other than neighbors/each other) now? I don't understand why you want kk replacement blocked. Why have you gone back on the decision that roleblockers should be negated?


If Tazaro is scum I would be happy with KK slot vigged, so naturally blocking it would be fine as well. If Tazaro is town... its still midway up the list.

With the recent mod ruling though of players not being able to perform double action, the nieghbors and the roleblockers are perfect targets for being blocked, since any other scum would be forced to give up their card ability to make a kill. Makes scum have to deal with WIFOM. I would also be thrilled if specifically mike and KK replacement were blocked after a scum flip. Blocking outside of the designated range is grounds for policy lynch however.
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Post Post #839 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:07 pm

Post by Chuji Kunisada »

You are not making any sense. Since when is vigging kk part of the plan to find out if mal/mew were lying? And since when is blocking outside YOUR designated range grounds for a policy lynch? You've taken this very simply plan and warped it around your own reads and are basically trying to control all of the town. Screw that.

I suggest the two people with the roleblock abilities, roleblock the neighbors mal and mew (easier if whoever gets cement blocks mal and whoever gets cement mixer blocks mew). Then at day break, we know who lied. It also prevents those two from performing any night kill, thus narrowing the pool for trackers. It's simple, void of bias (unlike llama's has been going towards), and any vig abilities should kill whomever they wish (though, I'd suggest not mal/mew tonight).

Now, any thoughts on who to lynch today? I'd say lynching taz based on mal's claims, before the plan happens, is wrong. Now, I support his lynch based on his scummy play D1 (though other head hasn't really weighed in yet). But lynching him because he could have been blocked just seems wrong when tomorrow we will know whether or not he was blocked or not.
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Post Post #840 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:09 pm

Post by Chuji Kunisada »

Also, whomever gets close to lynch should pick pier in order to get rid of that role and it will tell us if taz really was vt or not.
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Post Post #841 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:21 pm

Post by Me=Weird »

mal wrote:@M=W:Man what's wrong with you? I'm not changing my mind only because you decided to use Caps and to support Taz.

But what did you have to gain by not telling you're target, knowing that if you did claim your target, it might nail down some scum? Also, several people strongly urged you to claim your target. Speaking of which, this really cinches things for me.
Unvote, Vote: Tazaro

togtof wrote:Taz is not auto scum for being roleblocked and Malp voting him was stupid because of it. However, Scum voting their roleblocking target? I dont think so...

Except that taz is very likely scum now. Especially with what appears to be overdefensive caught scum. And in these circumstances, why shouldn't scum rb's vote for their target, assuming for an example scum is mal and taz is target?
oversoul wrote:I don't think that is wise. The role could come back into play on a later day. The only way to remove a role is by lynching or killing the player.

Actually, I don't think that happens.
MOD: Do missions return on later days, i.e. a mission from D1 come back on D4?

Either way, I am at least somewhat supportive of any doc missions claiming.
I have to agree with mal's point that if taz really was vanilla and scum, he would almost certainly have submitted the kill.
mike wrote:Unlikely I guess but if they are both scum, its possible. If it did lead to a 2nd and 3rd mislynch it would probably leave them close to a win.

The thing that's making you look scummier to me is this, how you keep bringing up very unlikely scenarios and saying "well, it's possible.".

llama, what's up with changing JedoJedi to mikemike for roleblockers? Also, I agree that me and mal should be blocked, though like chuji, I don't see where the KK slot comes in.
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Post Post #842 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:55 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

Chuji Kunisada wrote:You are not making any sense. Since when is vigging kk part of the plan to find out if mal/mew were lying? And since when is blocking outside YOUR designated range grounds for a policy lynch? You've taken this very simply plan and warped it around your own reads and are basically trying to control all of the town. Screw that.


Yeah, if no one else is going to even make an attempt im going to lead fully instead of what I have been doing. Having a KK death doesnt help find the root of the mal/M=W problem, but it makes sure that nothing there is prevented from occuring as that is already solved by the current location of RBers.

I suggest the two people with the roleblock abilities, roleblock the neighbors mal and mew (easier if whoever gets cement blocks mal and whoever gets cement mixer blocks mew). Then at day break, we know who lied. It also prevents those two from performing any night kill, thus narrowing the pool for trackers. It's simple, void of bias (unlike llama's has been going towards), and any vig abilities should kill whomever they wish (though, I'd suggest not mal/mew tonight).


The only problem I have with reducing the pool to such a small number is that we guarentee that scum will be able to perform a kill. If my reads on you and TGO are right, opening the pool to include others will prevent scum from just sending an odd member out to submit the kill. Sure it can burn up a card for scum which likely wont even be useful, but at the same time it allows them to make a WIFOM free night.

Now, any thoughts on who to lynch today? I'd say lynching taz based on mal's claims, before the plan happens, is wrong. Now, I support his lynch based on his scummy play D1 (though other head hasn't really weighed in yet). But lynching him because he could have been blocked just seems wrong when tomorrow we will know whether or not he was blocked or not.


Its based on the D1 play, todays play, the block claim, and to an extent preserving my own sanity. Once we get the necessary roles drafted I will hammer him.
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Post Post #843 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:03 pm

Post by TOGTFO »

Considered replacing out but instead will post this:

V/LA all next week.


I will be able to read at night and give my thoughts but due to me being really tired, I will not be doing much in the research department.

I am having a hard time believing Malp as scum. Roleblocking Taz as he did and voting based on it is a pathetic excuse to buss a partner or lead on a town. I will need more proof based on this but at the same time... Taz does not look like a decent lynch either.

I would be more satisfied with M=W despite what I said earlier.
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Post Post #844 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:08 pm

Post by mikemike778 »

LlamaFluff wrote:
mikemike778 wrote:Remind me again why I can't role block Malp ...


Because if Tazaro is scum, Malp is town who RBed him N1. Why why why why why does malp-scum come in with a fake result that will get his partner lynched when someone else already claimed what is a pseudo-guilty?

Try again. If Tazaro is scum you can block the other RBer, M=W or KK replacement. If Tazaro is town its the RBers, nieghbors or KK (actually hydra too).


Best hope you aren't scum then as if you are then that it looks like they don't have to worry about their kill being blocked ...

You are a long way from confirmed town so you are not going to dictate who picks what and what they are going to do - if everyone wants me to pick from your little list and I end up with a RB then fine I will. Otherwise I'll RB whoever I want and I'll be announcing it tomorrow. Not today.
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Post Post #845 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:10 pm

Post by mikemike778 »

Chuji Kunisada wrote:Also, whomever gets close to lynch should pick pier in order to get rid of that role and it will tell us if taz really was vt or not.


Agreed 100%
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Post Post #846 (ISO) » Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:14 pm

Post by mikemike778 »

Chuji Kunisada wrote:You are not making any sense. Since when is vigging kk part of the plan to find out if mal/mew were lying? And since when is blocking outside YOUR designated range grounds for a policy lynch? You've taken this very simply plan and warped it around your own reads and are basically trying to control all of the town. Screw that.

I suggest the two people with the roleblock abilities, roleblock the neighbors mal and mew (easier if whoever gets cement blocks mal and whoever gets cement mixer blocks mew). Then at day break, we know who lied. It also prevents those two from performing any night kill, thus narrowing the pool for trackers. It's simple, void of bias (unlike llama's has been going towards), and any vig abilities should kill whomever they wish
(though, I'd suggest not mal/mew tonight)
.

Now, any thoughts on who to lynch today? I'd say lynching taz based on mal's claims, before the plan happens, is wrong. Now, I support his lynch based on his scummy play D1 (though other head hasn't really weighed in yet). But lynching him because he could have been blocked just seems wrong when tomorrow we will know whether or not he was blocked or not.


Why ?

They have a neighbour card so we don't lose anything there. If Taz is lynched and flips town then any vig should definitely aim in that direction. If he flips scum then its up to the vig.
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Post Post #847 (ISO) » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:15 am

Post by ConSpiracy »

Hi every body.
Farside's computer crashed and until she finished the quarrels, I will take everything over of her.
If somebody has tools to fix my scumdar, pm me.
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Post Post #848 (ISO) » Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:35 am

Post by farside22 »

as conspiracy stated im having computer issues. please if you guys could please send him you role. mission assignment and action taken that would really help. I may be without a home compter from 2 to 7 days
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Post Post #849 (ISO) » Sun Jul 24, 2011 6:40 am

Post by Chuji Kunisada »

Ok I am alive and yes lazy outside of work. as far as me posting at work the IT people blocked the MS website from me while i was at work so I can't do that anymore at all

Note to shadow dancer and all those that care. I, PF, have signed or stated I was PF everytime I have posted as CK except 1.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3243745
That would be the one time I didn't signed and yet it was still me. The other CK posts are all Battou

I'll confirm that yes CK and oversoul were neighbours last night. Niether side has a gaurantee of the others alignment and all we got was the chance to talk to each other at night. Not sure if we were considered to be targeting each other last night. Us being neighbors seemed to be a flavor aspect of the roles. it wasn't like we chose to target oversoul or he chose to target us so it wasn't like someone chose to do neighboring by player. Only choosing going on was us picking bookie and cmar picking payoff. Because CK chose bookie, Batt thinks we may have been making a targeting action. I am not so sure in general since everything was all enforced by role flavors. basically i think neighboring was all passive and thus not a blockable action

overaoul wrote:Llama, you said CK is probably the smartest person on the thread right now. Wouldn't you think the smartest person would know masonry can't be blocked? I was origiy suspicious of CK after Pere's death but was surprised when I was in a masonry with him. I held off voting for him today because he brought up good points about Mal and Mew in the QT. Yes I am basically shipping but I am still a newby and I too though CK was a rather intelligent poster so I followed him. He acted odd in the QT almost as if he was distancing himself from me intentionally. He made a comment about oh that would mod confirm your alignment as if it was a bad thing, and I asked why wouldn't you want it. He said oh no I would like it, less people to hunt but Farside is too smart to do that. Another curious thing is that he didn't wants to out the roles when the day began like I wanted, in order to, I assume, save their usefulness until we needed to put them, but he has now chosen to pick another role most likely. Why? I wanted another masonry with you CK. I guess you don't think I am worth it though. My theory is that he knows the masonry is either going to be useless after being putted for whatever reason, or someone in it will die, also making it useless.

I'm not sure why you considered my actions as distancing from you. I doubted farside would answer that stuff because mods normally don't answer that stuff. I was in Farside's first newbie game with her, and seeing her in other games has generally given me the impression she has gotten very knowledgable about the game of mafia. So I don't think she would answer that stuff and another reason I told you "I thought she wouldn't answer" was because I guess I wanted to save her the trouble of her telling you all that. And because I figured I didn't want you to spend your time waiting for farside's info. I did answer some of that stuff for you to the best of my ability. another reason I said that stuff is I guess I'm a generally fair player. I don't like it when mod slips decide a game or effect a game so I guess I didn't want that either. Besides I have had a generally town read on you and your predecessor during this game so confirmation on your alignment is not generally something I am looking for. Does all this makes sence to you? Now that I have said it all, perhaps you thought I was distancing from you because I generally found you town and didn't feel a great need to interogate you at night

Taz wrote:Thus, this "mason" thing is a result of Chuji's action since you were not starting as masons, but since masons are mod-confirmed to each other as townies and a scum might have picked up Bookie, and still might, the qt must actually really be more of a neighbor thing, because you are not confirmed to each other, or a lover thing that Chuji did not tell you and is probably not the case.
I do not understand why Chuji would have some SERIOUS explaining to do to you, Oversoul. There is nothing perverse about a person neighborizing with someone who looks town (i.e., you on day one, Oversoul) and is a very pro-town tool. Further thought later.

Yes the 2 of us were neighbored for 1 night and we did not start the game as neighbors nor did either of us get any alignment confirmation. As far as lovers go I got nothing that would imply lovers from my role and oversoul didn't seem to hint he had anything like that so I would assume the 2 roles are not lovers in anyway

Like I said earlier I PF picked the bookie role because I like gambling and thought the role involved gambling. As me and Battou are hydra we decided earlier in the game that we would alternate mission picks. I picked bookie day 1 and I guess battou wants polka dot tie day 2. Not sure why he wants it though as he has not told me yet.

Why have i not gone after M=W yet today? well I have been generally flakey I guess. Me playing poorly is the reason. Battou hasn't really said much about M=W all game so reason he hasn't gone there is, he doesn't suspect him like I did

To brake it down I suspect Mal, M=W
Battou suspects Taz, Mal, mike
Mal is only guy on our lists so battou obviously went in that direction earlier given my absence and figured I'd correct him if I thought it was necessary when I showed up. considering how far behind I am compared to battou, hey battou, you don't need to wait for me. If you got some suspcion or big case you got in mind at any time do not let me hold you back

Note: all the above was written while I PF was catching up and before I read post
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p3261165
looks like battou explained most of what I already said. I am so behind its not funny. I think I am going to wait to read everything and then post as continuing to post while reading doesn't seem like a good idea when i am this far back
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