Mini 293: RE4 Mafia (Over)


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Post Post #25 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:45 am

Post by Glork »

Sotty7 wrote:
Glork wrote:Guys, we should really kill Dead Rikimaru. Seriously, he's the right lynch today.
How come?
Three reasons, really.
1) I feel like stirring the pot early on.
2) Obligatory first-to-comment-on-the-night's-deaths scumtell.
3) One very small, but very important word I found in Rikimaru's first post. The word "A."



Dead Rikimaru wrote:One of the nightkills was
a
mafia leader!
A
mafia leader? As in, there are more than one? How else would a player know this unless they were a member of a/the mafia?

It could have been an honest grammatical mistake but, given the fact that we had two nightkills (which fits in so perfectly with having two mafias... imagine that!), I want to explore it a little more.
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Post Post #26 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:30 am

Post by Centoaph »

I'm in for this one. I know it's a tad early to start bandwaggoning people, but why not?

vote: dead rikimaru



Well, at least that saves me the touble of having to random vote :)
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Post Post #27 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:28 am

Post by Dead Rikimaru »

2) Obligatory first-to-comment-on-the-night's-deaths scumtell.
When I entered the forum I noticed day 1 was up, so I posted.
Do you usually wait for other people to post first to avoid looking scummy?
A mafia leader? As in, there are more than one? How else would a player know this unless they were a member of a/the mafia?

It could have been an honest grammatical mistake but
,
I am not a native English speaker, but I don't think there is a grammatical mistake there.
You purposedly misunderstood the meaning of my words just to look smart. Or to lynch an innocent.
given the fact that we had two nightkills
(which fits in so perfectly with having two mafias... imagine that!)
, I want to explore it a little more.
It is possible there are two Mafias, but due to the number of players in this game I don't believe it.
We have either Mafia and a SK (most probable) or a Mafia and a lucky Vigilante (less probable).
If we have two Mafias they may have only two members, because two groups of three wouldn't give the town a chance in a 12 player game.
Also, being based on RE4 there is a high chance of having a cult in this game.

I don't share your ability of finding so much in a letter, but if I try I can find one thing or two in some words. You said:
Guys, we should
really
kill Dead Rikimaru.
Seriously
, he's the
right
lynch today.
You look very confident of my guilt in this post.
It's much more than just stirring the pot, and you don't show any sign of thinking that "It could have been an honest grammatical mistake".
Actually it looks (to me, at least) very much like you wanted everyone to think you had some role-related information and you knew without a doubt that I was scum.
I would like to know if I was the only one to have that impression.

One more thing: As far as I'd like to vote you I don't think we can afford a speedlynch. Let's have more opinions first.

Meanwhile:
FOS Glork
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Post Post #28 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:00 pm

Post by Centoaph »

So...if you are a townie, you're trying to get some type of investigative role to come forward? Good thing my votes already on you.
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Post Post #29 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:17 pm

Post by mikeburnfire »

Vote count:

2 - Dead Rikimaru (Glork, Centoaph)
2 - Glork (Akonas, Vyolynce)
1 - Sotty7 (Der Hammer)
1 - Vyolynce (Sotty7)

Not Voting: AniX, Brian McQueso, Dead Rikimaru, Lloyd,
"It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill with rope and a slim majority."

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Post Post #30 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:01 pm

Post by Dead Rikimaru »

Centoaph wrote:So...if you are a townie, you're trying to get some type of investigative role to come forward? Good thing my votes already on you.
Wow, another one who reads too much into what people say!
Am I the only one to see a pattern here?

I didn't request him to claim.
Actually, I didn't request anything from him.
I said in post #22 he sounded very sure of my guilt (as if he knew by a role power, not becfause a letter in my post) and I asked if anyone else had the same impression.
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Post Post #31 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:53 pm

Post by Centoaph »

No, you didnt explicitly ask him to claim, but thats what he would be doing if he came out and said "I have role based information that DR is scum". And, while you didn't ask anything of him directly, it's not like he's going to make that last post and then drop the subject entirely either.
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Post Post #32 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 3:36 pm

Post by BrianMcQueso »

Dead Rikimaru, your behavior does come off as rather scummy so far. One of the basic principles of Mafia is that the bad guys have a lot more information about what's going on than the good guys. From all the "speculation" you've put forth so far, plus what seems like a few Freudian slips, it seems like you do know more about what's going on than we do.

Another typically scummy behavior you've presented is attacking Glork for his suspicions of you. Just because a person suspects you of being scum doesn't make them scum. Townies can accuse each other, and the Mafia will usually sit back, watch it happen, and take whichever side is easier. But your reaction to Glork makes me think that you're not just trying to defend yourself, you're trying to get Glork for his quick jump on you. Day 1 is a good day to test peoples' reactions, and your reactions so far haven't exactly reeked of pro-townness.

With that being said, while you do illicit some scummy behavior, it's not enough to convince me to lynch you this early on. I'd like to hear more discussion, especially from you.
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Post Post #33 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 5:18 pm

Post by Glork »

Dead Rikimaru wrote:
2) Obligatory first-to-comment-on-the-night's-deaths scumtell.
When I entered the forum I noticed day 1 was up, so I posted.
Do you usually wait for other people to post first to avoid looking scummy?
No, it's not the fact that you posted. It's the content of the post. For some unknown reason, the first person to comment on the Night One kill(s) tends to be a scumbag. It's not a major tell, but it contributes nonetheless.
Rikimaru wrote:
A mafia leader? As in, there are more than one? How else would a player know this unless they were a member of a/the mafia?

It could have been an honest grammatical mistake but
,
I am not a native English speaker, but I don't think there is a grammatical mistake there.
You purposedly misunderstood the meaning of my words just to look smart. Or to lynch an innocent.
I didn't purposefully misunderstand anything. The artcicle "the" implies that there is exactly one of something. The President, for example. On the other hand, "a" usually implies that you are talking about one of many. A politician. A mafiate. So the way you wrote that first post ("A mafia leader") indicated to me that there is more than one mafia leader, and that you knew this.
Dead Rikimaru wrote:It is possible there are two Mafias, but due to the number of players in this game I don't believe it.
We have either Mafia and a SK (most probable) or a Mafia and a lucky Vigilante (less probable).
If we have two Mafias they may have only two members, because two groups of three wouldn't give the town a chance in a 12 player game.
Also, being based on RE4 there is a high chance of having a cult in this game.
Anything's possible at this point. I'm not going to speculate on the setup of the game right now, but I will point out that mini agmes have had multiple mafias. (I can't think of one off the top of my head right now, but if you want me to go find one, I can.)
Dead Rikimaru wrote:
Guys, we should
really
kill Dead Rikimaru.
Seriously
, he's the
right
lynch today.
You look very confident of my guilt in this post.
It's much more than just stirring the pot, and you don't show any sign of thinking that "It could have been an honest grammatical mistake".
Actually it looks (to me, at least) very much like you wanted everyone to think you had some role-related information and you knew without a doubt that I was scum.
At this point, I'm not going to say if I have any role-related information on you. I will, however, make a point about my language.
I tend to make bold, sometimes irrational, oftentimes joking/biding/sarcastic comments. That was one of them. In recent games, I've also made similar comments about other players. It's not actually a statement of fact or certainty. It's a pseudo-joke that says, "I suspect this guy right now, and I think that we should take a closer look at him." It's used to gague the reactions of the person I'm pressuring as well as those of the other townspeople. And in this case, I'm thinking I may have struck something.
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Post Post #34 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:39 pm

Post by Akonas »

Glork wrote:
Dead Rikimaru wrote:One of the nightkills was
a
mafia leader!
A
mafia leader? As in, there are more than one? How else would a player know this unless they were a member of a/the mafia?

It could have been an honest grammatical mistake but, given the fact that we had two nightkills (which fits in so perfectly with having two mafias... imagine that!), I want to explore it a little more.
Not to defend him or anything, but that's the way I would have written it. If you don't know how many there are, it's correct English to say "a" leader rather than "the" leader, because there may be multiple mafias or leaders or whatever. I do, however, agree with BMQ that he shouldn't have attacked Glork so much. That deserves some looking into, and since it's all we have to go on, this isn't too bad of a wagon.
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Post Post #35 (ISO) » Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:42 pm

Post by Dead Rikimaru »

First of all thanks Brian, for trying to clarify things.
I will try to clear point by point of Brian's and Gloak's posts and will be available to answer any further question from them or anyone else.
BrianMcQueso wrote:One of the basic principles of Mafia is that the bad guys have a lot more information about what's going on than the good guys. From all the "speculation" you've put forth so far
The reason for speculation is not excess of information, but lack of information. I don't know how many enemies I have and what type are they, so I try to figure it out based on what i know from the RE4 game and the most usual setups of Mafia games.
Now we know almost nothing, but as the game progresses and we get more information and reduce choices, so we may end up having useful information.
How is that scummy? If were Mafia and had extra information I would hide it, not try to share.
BrianMcQueso wrote:plus what seems like a few Freudian slips, it seems like you do know more about what's going on than we do.
I don't have enough knowledge of the English language to let inner things from my mind slip through it, more on this later.
BrianMcQueso wrote:Another typically scummy behavior you've presented is attacking Glork for his suspicions of you. Just because a person suspects you of being scum doesn't make them scum.
I never attacked Glork.
He said he was suspicious about me and explained why.
I answered his comments and said why I was suspicious about him, he answered.
Why am I scummy and he isn't? It's not fair.
Also centoaphs comments were wrong. I never meant that.
And probably people are thinking I attacked Glock too much because I was trying to convince centoaph that I didn't want him to claim.
BrianMcQueso wrote:. But your reaction to Glork makes me think that you're not just trying to defend yourself, you're trying to get Glork for his quick jump on you.
That's exactly what I accused Glork of in post #24. He had 2 votes in him and if I OMGUS him I could have been seen as scummy for trying to quick lynch.
I said that at the time but didn't think he was scum for that. Because I know it's common trap on the start of the game. I didn't take it that seriously, but when in the second post he brought up the A thing than
I
thought he was attacking me too much and that's when mentioned my previous suspicion.
When I asked people's opinion about that I was hoping someone would get to that conclusion too.
Of course people would be able to vote me or him, question me or him, in order to clear that.
Instead of that what i got was more accusations from centoaph, and more posts by me trying to convince him, and everybody thinking I was "attacking too much".
BrianMcQueso wrote:I'd like to hear more discussion, especially from you.
Discussion is what I always wanted. I won't evade any question.
Glork wrote:No, it's not the fact that you posted. It's the content of the post. For some unknown reason, the first person to comment on the Night One kill(s) tends to be a scumbag. It's not a major tell, but it contributes nonetheless.
I hear about it a lot. I will later check old games and see how much of truth is in it, statistically. But it seem just a good reason to random vote, and I don't like to random vote, even in day 1.
Glork wrote:I didn't purposefully misunderstand anything.
To me you did. I thought I was writing the right way.
Glork wrote:The artcicle "the" implies that there is exactly one of something. The President, for example. On the other hand, "a" usually implies that you are talking about one of many.
I think it's not fair to use this knowledge as evidence against a foreigner. I always post in forums with Google open in a browser so I can confirm the spelling of many words (that's how I do, not as accurate as a dictionary, but I like it because of Image search). English articles have correspondents in Portuguese, but looks like not all rules are not exactly the same. It would be very sad to be lynched because something like that.
Glork wrote:At this point, I'm not going to say if I have any role-related information on you.
And I asked and never wanted to know. What I do know is that if you have any you didn't use in me because I am pro-town.
Glork wrote:I tend to make bold, sometimes irrational, oftentimes joking/biding/sarcastic comments.
As I said before, I would have ignored that if it were not for your following post.
If you could point your suspicious about my letter A, why couldn't I point mine against your use of words.
For Gods sake, if they didn't see anything wrong with it they could have said insted of accusing me of other things. If I were completely sure about your guilt I wouldn't ask anyone, I would vote. I myself said we couldn't afford a speedlynch (if people agreeing with me bandwagoned you) and only FOSed you. and if you like to make sarcastic comments you should have recognized the sarcasm here
I don't share your ability of finding so much in a letter, but if I try I can find one thing or two in some words.
Why is my sarcasm considered attack?
Glork wrote:And in this case, I'm thinking I may have struck something.
Feel free to suspect me as much as you want. Nobody is confirmed in this game. Neither me, nor you or any other player.
I will do the same.
Akonas wrote:Not to defend him or anything, but that's the way I would have written it. If you don't know how many there are, it's correct English to say "a" leader rather than "the" leader, because there may be multiple mafias or leaders or whatever.
If you are American thank's for pointing that out. Make me feel much better about my English knowledge.
[i]"Dead Rikimaru is... well, dead. When the lights came back on, he was found turned inside-out, somehow. Disgusting, really. Anyway, he was "Dead Dead Rikimaru" (Self-fulfilling Prophecy)".
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Post Post #36 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:55 am

Post by Der Hammer »

Im just a mindless sheep so

Unvote, Vote:Dead Rikimaru
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Post Post #37 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:30 am

Post by Vyolynce »

Personally, I think DR's being
waaaaaay
too defensive in response to a second vote. He's up to three now, halfway to lynch.

On the other hand, the argument being put forth from Glork and Cenotaph is weak at best.

I think I'll leave my vote on Glork now and see how this develops, but
FOS: Dead Rikimaru
.
In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded. -- Terry Pratchett, [u]Lords and Ladies[/u]
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Post Post #38 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:59 am

Post by Glork »

Of course my argument is weak, Vyolence. We're on Page Two of the game. :P
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Post Post #39 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 5:22 am

Post by Sotty7 »

Hmm...I'm not to sure what to make of all this. DR is being mega defensive but I really don't like the way Der Hammer just jumped on the wagon there either.

Unvote
for now
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Post Post #40 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:39 am

Post by Vyolynce »

Glork wrote:Of course my argument is weak, Vyolence. We're on Page Two of the game. :P
Glork wrote:Guys, we should really kill Dead Rikimaru. Seriously, he's the right lynch today.
Make up your mind. Is your argument weak or is he the right lynch today?
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Post Post #41 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:41 am

Post by Sotty7 »

He already said that was a sarcastic comment
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Post Post #42 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:56 am

Post by Vyolynce »

If he's going to jump on DR for semantics, he should expect the same fine-toothed scrutiny of what he types in return.
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Post Post #43 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 1:51 pm

Post by AniX »

[quote="Glork"

No,
i
t's not the f
a
ct that you posted. It's the content of the post. For some unknown reason, the first person to co
mm
ent on the Night One kill(s) tends to be a scumb
a
g. It's not a major tell, but it contributes nonetheless.

I didn't purpose
f
ully m
i
sunderst
a
nd anything. The artcicle "the" implie
s
that there is exactly one of something. The President, for example. On the other hand, "a" usually implies that you are talking about one of many. A politi
c
ian. A mafiate. So the way yo
u
wrote that first post ("A
m
afia leader") indicated to me that there is more than one mafia leader, and that you knew this.[/quote]

Put the bold together: I am mafia scum.

I think your own words speak for themselves. You wrote your own ticket when you alerted me to the idea of really paying attention to words in people's posts. Your genius "take a close look at the words used in this post" really opened my eyes and this is the result. Its quite ironic the very tactic you used to confuse the town would reveal your own evil nature.

vote Glork
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Post Post #44 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:17 pm

Post by mikeburnfire »

Vote count:

3 - Dead Rikimaru (Glork, Centoaph, Der Hammer)
3 - Glork (Akonas, Vyolynce, AniX)

Not Voting: Brian McQueso, Dead Rikimaru, Lloyd, Sotty7
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Post Post #45 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 4:27 pm

Post by Glork »

Vyolynce wrote:
Glork wrote:Of course my argument is weak, Vyolence. We're on Page Two of the game. :P
Glork wrote:Guys, we should really kill Dead Rikimaru. Seriously, he's the right lynch today.
Make up your mind. Is your argument weak or is he the right lynch today?
I thought my stance was perfectly clear, though if you want me to state it again, I can.

I felt I saw two early scumtells in Dead Rikimaru's post. I wanted to explore the notion a bit more. My second post was (in retrospect) an ill-advised bit of sarcasm to evoke a response from the town (especially DR). I'm not one bit satisfied with DR's response, but I'm not fully convinced that he's scum.

To further clarify: I'm perfectly willing to concede that my initial evidence was rather weak. In fact, I've already done so. It's awfully hard to find something truly legitimate from a player's first post in the game. But if you'll examine DR's response, you'll find further scumtells. (I'm not going to bother pointing these out, beacuse BMQ has already done so.) My argument is weak. However, DR's flagrant counterattack and his over-defensive nature on a small bit of Page-One "evidence" now indicates that I might in fact have been onto something.
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Post Post #46 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 4:55 pm

Post by Lloyd »

Vote: Glork
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Post Post #47 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:22 pm

Post by Glork »

Well, before I get bandwagoned to death, I suppose I should claim. I'm Jill Valentine, another Cop. Yes, I investigated Dead Rikimaru. Yes, he's scum. I was trying to find an alternate way to get him lynched, but apparently that plan backfired pretty badly.



Now please unvote me and lynch Rikimaru.
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Post Post #48 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:51 pm

Post by Centoaph »

...you can't be serious. Please tell me no one, and I mean NO ONE, is voting for glork because of that little bolding letters joke. If someone says they are, I am going to push for lynch tomorrow something fierce.
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Post Post #49 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 6:06 pm

Post by Glork »

Trust me, Centoaph, I'm more irritated over this bandwagon than you are. Despite my result, I'm not happy to be claiming on Day One.


Nevertheless, what's done is done. I can't unclaim, and I can't change the fact that I had four votes on me over this. I know for a fact I'll be investigating someone who was on my bandwagon. I just haven't yet decided who that will be.
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