Lemming Mafia - Mini 1196

[TOGTFO]

Well, that's some good news considering our town lynch yesterday.

What did we decide was best as far as discussing the mission powers? On the one hand, I would prefer scum not to have more information than they already do, but I also don't want town to get all the useless missions.

Another thought which occurs to me: I don't like that other people will know what I will be getting. That could be pretty good information for the scum. Is there something we can do with regard to this? Should maybe the same people get those missions?

Vote: Jedo

This post is a person being fake town. I especially dislike the first sentence.

Quick ISO shows decent scumhunting but all on the same player. I see few reads from him on anyone.

Oversoul has also caught my eye with his comment on Mafia Kills. Maybe he assumes a doc protection because he knows mafia can not be blocked? Unfortunately, mod confirmed kill can be blocked so that idea is out the window. Doesn't mean I am not curious with Oversoul...

[TOGTFO]

malpascp (picked Cement)
Kublai Khan (picked Jack Hammer)
PeregrineV (picked Lemming Pledge)
me=weird (picked Concrete Mixer)
TOGTFO (picked Creatures)
Chuji Kunisada (picked Bookie)
mikemike778 (picked Limo)
Tazaro (Pier)
jilynne1991 (picked Fedora)
Shadow Dancer (picked shooter)
Oversoul (picked Payoff)
Jedo the Jedi (picked Cliff Diving)

[TOGTFO]

Sorry, clicked submit instead of preview on that last post.

malpascp (picked Cement)

Kublai Khan (picked Jack Hammer)

PeregrineV (picked Lemming Pledge)

me=weird (picked Concrete Mixer)

TOGTFO (picked Creatures)

Chuji Kunisada (picked Bookie)

mikemike778 (picked Limo)

Tazaro (Pier)

jilynne1991 (picked Fedora)

Shadow Dancer (picked shooter)
Oversoul (picked Payoff)

Jedo the Jedi (picked Cliff Diving)

Bookie

>Polkadot tie

Shooter
Payoff

>Race

Concrete Mixer
Cement

>Thief

Jackhammer
Pier
Limo

That means only three new cards. That is alot less then what I figured and I am really conflicted on claiming my power. I dont know the odds of it showing up again.

[Oversoul]

Well, that's some good news considering our town lynch yesterday.

What did we decide was best as far as discussing the mission powers? On the one hand, I would prefer scum not to have more information than they already do, but I also don't want town to get all the useless missions.

Another thought which occurs to me: I don't like that other people will know what I will be getting. That could be pretty good information for the scum. Is there something we can do with regard to this? Should maybe the same people get those missions?

Vote: Jedo

This post is a person being fake town. I especially dislike the first sentence.

Quick ISO shows decent scumhunting but all on the same player. I see few reads from him on anyone.

Oversoul has also caught my eye with his comment on Mafia Kills. Maybe he assumes a doc protection because he knows mafia can not be blocked? Unfortunately, mod confirmed kill can be blocked so that idea is out the window. Doesn't mean I am not curious with Oversoul...

Not to buddy, Jedo, but I do have a town read on him and I read that statement as.

Oh good that no one died last night considering we screwed up and lynched a town yesterday. Also, he proposes another plan for town to try and get the better roles and leave the others for scummy players.

I didn't realize that roleblocking a mafia member stops a nightkill if he chose to nightkill. I don't understand your last 2 sentences starting with unfortunately, though. Could you expand on that?

[Oversoul]

I reply to the question when PokerFace comes back.

[LlamaFluff]

Ive been thinking a whole lot and a hypo-target is a good database move here I believe. It really doesnt give away the power, at most it would suggest a species of power and even then its fairly ambiguous from player to player read dependant. The main point is though that its going to force scum to actually take some stance on who a power was used on, which later can be used to validate or break a claim.

Im still debating if VT or other non-active roles should fake a target to say non-active. When I get done with thinking about that I will start it or say we shouldnt.

Early game is a pain to read, you guys need to post less, and POLICY LYNCH ANI. I cannot stress enough how much of a detrement to whatever alignment he is in every single freaking game, and then he eventually replaces out. What this game needs is conciseness though, less double/triple posting one liners.

[Oversoul]

Ive been thinking a whole lot and a hypo-target is a good database move here I believe. It really doesnt give away the power, at most it would suggest a species of power and even then its fairly ambiguous from player to player read dependant. The main point is though that its going to force scum to actually take some stance on who a power was used on, which later can be used to validate or break a claim.

Im still debating if VT or other non-active roles should fake a target to say non-active. When I get done with thinking about that I will start it or say we shouldnt.

Early game is a pain to read, you guys need to post less, and POLICY LYNCH ANI. I cannot stress enough how much of a detrement to whatever alignment he is in every single freaking game, and then he eventually replaces out. What this game needs is conciseness though, less double/triple posting one liners.

You do realize that Ani was replaced by Shadow a long time ago right?

Also, I am probably not going to pick Payoff and instead will either choose Race or Thief since they are new and I didn't particularly like the last one I (my predecessor) picked.

[TOGTFO]

@Mod, if someone roleblocked the Mafia member who sent in the kill, will the kill still go through?

Roleblock ability always comes before a kill in any game.

This is what I was referring too.

[Oversoul]

@Mod, if someone roleblocked the Mafia member who sent in the kill, will the kill still go through?

Roleblock ability always comes before a kill in any game.

This is what I was referring too.

Either way, why is everyone automatically assuming it is a roleblock? I thought it was a doctor because I thought that was the only role that could protect a citizen and a jailkeeper falls under a variation of the doctor in my opinion.

[TOGTFO]

Protecting a citizen is not the only option. Someone could have easily blocked the target person who preformed the kill instead.

[Oversoul]

Protecting a citizen is not the only option. Someone could have easily blocked the target person who preformed the kill instead.

Now that we are all up to speed...

What is your opinion on Mal and Mew?

[LlamaFluff]

You do realize that Ani was replaced by Shadow a long time ago right?

He should have been policy lynched before that fact. Most VI players are actually very readable and harmless if you know how to manage them, he isnt all that readable and really just does his own little distracting thing. Sadly I have a very slight town read there, but the whole beginning of the game teeters between insanity and uselessness. People talking a lot and saying nothing never wins games, just loses them.

If the hydra got JKed I would put them town way before scum simply because not reading the game at all, they appear most competent through playerlist along with KK (not a shot at anyone but they do).


Read wise though

TOG is prob town, this goes much more so if both whoever ani is now and tazaro are town, both of whom I really want to know the alignment of since most of the early game centers around them.
JJ-Tazaro arent partners, dont think both are town though.
M=W bugs me a whole lot
mike leans town to me, scum flip from M=W makes it all the more likely
I agree with oversoul way to much on current reads

@Shadow - RB or JK? Difference there is significant.

I need to think about this a little since I really dont see a push of the magnitude D1 coming from scum since Peregrine was likely to be lynched from not that long into the game.

[TOGTFO]

Mew was an early scum read of mine but has turned null. I would have to look back and see why and I am not up for that tonight. Mal i have no current opinion on.

[LlamaFluff]

Im wondering if it makes the most sense to do the complete opposite of what people have been suggesting for role, meaning give the good ones to the people who are up for lynching (save VT/useless for the lynchee). The point of doing that is that it will force scum to either kill non-role threat people who are viewed as town, or role threats who are possible mislynches down the line.

The most essentail role for this actually is the RBer though, as that is something we dont want in the hands of the scum. If that one shows up, it goes to lynch consideration (but not lynch) player and force them to NOT use it. This accomplishes keeping the RB (which is weak for town until one scum left) out of the mafia hands, while at the same time, prevents them for accidently stumbling into a good role (like if vig suddenly entered the game).

Just a thought, but I think ensures all other players are free to do anything they want night action wise, with no town on town blocks, and no scum blocks.

[Chuji Kunisada]

I find your above post, LF, to have a bit of a scumslip in it (or at least faulty, faulty logic).

I don't know about you, but I vote for people who I think are scum. So, giving people I think are scum powerful PRs (such as RB) is just wrong. Now how I see this as a bit of a scumslip is that you expect the people we string up to be town ("mislynches down the line"). I don't really see that coming from town mindset.

FOS: Llamafluff

[LlamaFluff]

I don't know about you, but I vote for people who I think are scum. So, giving people I think are scum powerful PRs (such as RB) is just wrong.

They cant do anything with it though. If someone gets roleblocked the person who we gave RBer to get lynched. Worse this can do is create a 1:1 on a false blocked claim while removing any threat of an RB out of the question. Lets assume 3 scum, and they manage to draw one active role, while there are three other active town roles drawn. Town RBer is more likely to hit town, AND only have a 1/(P-1) shot of hitting the person submitting a kill. So a town RBer is more likely going to hurt the town until a situation arises where they can start clearing people as kills continue to go through.

Now how I see this as a bit of a scumslip is that you expect the people we string up to be town ("mislynches down the line"). I don't really see that coming from town mindset.

You gotta look at it from the scum standpoint, this plan creates havoc for them. There are two types of people (three if you want to get deep into theory) that scum want to kill, PRs and people who you cant mislynch. This creates an obvious split between the two groups, which makes scum have to get rid of the people who they can mislynch, or let PRs roam free. So whatever group they kill from, we benifit by keeping pro-town people alive or getting role info.

[TOGTFO]

I dont care for your mafia theories as they hurt my wee brain.

I do care about why you assume a roleblocker is not important to scum. Hasn't town already considered a roleblocker being the reason for no kill?

[Battousai]

If someone gets roleblocked, then the designated roleblocker gets lynched?

Ok, I'm starting to see what you are saying. Second leading wagon gets the PR.

downgrading FoS, now that I understand a bit more and I see how you changed your mindset to that of scum as a point for your plan. Not sure about that.

However, are we still holding off picking roles till nearer deadline/lynch?

A reason, not THE reason. There are plenty of other reasons why there was no kill: scum can't kill unless they get a certain role (in line with us selecting roles, mafia also have hidden deck of cards to pick from), doctor who doesn't want to out the card, jailkeeper who protected the victim or blocked the killer (less likely due to no one claiming it).

[Shadow Dancer]

A weak point that only works with my main point is that "I had expected someone to die last night" is probably because he was the virtually unsuspected mafia who performed the kill.
What I'm saying is that I role-blocked Chuji Kunisada last night.

OK. This is in deed an intersting point.

I had expected someone to die last night, so I put off reading the D1 with pere as town. I'm working on that now. I'm also super pissed right now as the neighbor's dog left a little "present" for me in my yard this morning, which made me late to work so I got pulled over for speeding. Fucking cops... So don't expect anything from this head today.

Yeah, all we really wantedto know about your life Have you actually seen that it was the neighbour's dog O_o ?!

I wasn't rb'd, or at least I don't think so. Oversoul can confirm (I'd think it would be best not to say what role I had) that my ability worked last night.

So you targeted Over? Over, can you confirm that you were targeted by... something that you actually would actually be able to realyize and confirm?

If Oversoul can confirm it, we are f***ing lynching M=W.

Not so overeager, taz, do you think M=W would fakeclaim a roleblock if he had reasons to assume that Chuji might be able to confirm his ability usage?

@Bat #593: If I had to name a scum on your "off the waggon" list I would definitely say Over. Looking at his latest posts there are a bunch of things that just seemed off to me when I read over them. For example he calls Taz "obvious town" just to tell Taz that "his town read dwindles" or something like that a post or so later... I would go as far and say this is a possible scum on scum interaction.

@llama#595: Ah, Ok, I think I got it now. However, what do you suggest for the case that we cannot confirm a townie? Using chuji's elimination method to get rid of it via lynch?

@Shadow - RB or JK? Difference there is significant.

I was playing a (town) jailkeeper until I was most recently killed in Gree Pantheon, if that is what you mean...

@Chuji: Coukd you please sign your posts with the signature of whoever of you is making it? I find Hydra's with rather uncoordinated posts of both members rather dsturbing to read.

[Shadow Dancer]

Oops...

@far: Can you fix that quote for me, please

[Me=Weird]

Well, that's some good news considering our town lynch yesterday.

What did we decide was best as far as discussing the mission powers? On the one hand, I would prefer scum not to have more information than they already do, but I also don't want town to get all the useless missions.

Another thought which occurs to me: I don't like that other people will know what I will be getting. That could be pretty good information for the scum. Is there something we can do with regard to this? Should maybe the same people get those missions?

Vote: Jedo

This post is a person being fake town. I especially dislike the first sentence.

Quick ISO shows decent scumhunting but all on the same player. I see few reads from him on anyone.

Oversoul has also caught my eye with his comment on Mafia Kills. Maybe he assumes a doc protection because he knows mafia can not be blocked? Unfortunately, mod confirmed kill can be blocked so that idea is out the window. Doesn't mean I am not curious with Oversoul...

Not to buddy, Jedo, but I do have a town read on him and I read that statement as.

Oh good that no one died last night considering we screwed up and lynched a town yesterday. Also, he proposes another plan for town to try and get the better roles and leave the others for scummy players.

I didn't realize that roleblocking a mafia member stops a nightkill if he chose to nightkill. I don't understand your last 2 sentences starting with unfortunately, though. Could you expand on that?

Not to buddy, Oversoul, but that's kind of the point. It's thought of as a scum-tell to comment about the Night Kill. Personally, I don't know that mafia do it any more than town.

Either way, why is everyone automatically assuming it is a roleblock?

If you mean before, it was probably more hoping so as that would strongly point at someone to be scum. If you mean now, maybe because I claimed a role-block? And neither that nor anything else I posted has been responded to by you. I think that you may be overconfident fairly new scum. Which leads me to my next point:
Chuji, I'm sure I dumped some icky sticky stuff on you, so if Oversoul can "confirm" your action, then you're both lying scumbags and I'm going to ensure that you're lynched. Only one tiny possibility that it's not like that.

farside: Under your ruleset, if I were to role-block somebody, it would stop all of their actions, correct?

[Tazaro]

Damn, Chuji. Damn...

Give me some time to compose my thoughts, but you have some *serious* explaining, CK.

IF he loverized you, both M=W and Chuji should be considered lynches. IF he neighborized you, no

serious

explaining is needed.

[Tazaro]

Double post:

Chuji Kunisada - town (

if Peregrine flips town, you are probably scum

)

Yo?
Man, something's wrong with this M=W-Chuji-Oversoul triangle.

[farside22]

farside: Under your ruleset, if I were to role-block somebody, it would stop all of their actions, correct?

From wiki:

A Roleblocker chooses one player per Night to block from performing his or her night action. The target's night action will not be performed -- that is, the Roleblocker blocks the target's role from working.

Typically, the Roleblocker only stops things the target tries to actively perform, such as Cop investigations and Doctor protection. Passive abilities, such as a Bulletproof player's kill immunity or a Mason's ability to privately talk, are not affected. More simply - if the player has to submit an action to the moderator, a Roleblocker can block it.

Players are not told that they are blocked unless it cannot be helped. For instance, a Cop who is blocked by a Roleblocker has to be told something for their investigation result. Normally the Cop is given a message like "No Result". (It is terrible form to simply not give the Cop any result at all and assume that the Cop understands that they were blocked - the Cop may instead question if the moderator forgot about their investigation.)

There is no consensus as to whether one-shot roles are used up when they are targeted by a Roleblocker while performing their action.

Roleblockers have been known to be of either alignment, though Roleblocker is probably the most common Mafia power role. Another name for Roleblocker is "Prostitute" (or anything similar to that).

[farside22]

Mission Cards:

Bookie
Polkadot tie
Shooter
Payoff
Race
Concrete Mixer
Cement
Thief
Jackhammer
Pier
Limo

Order of picking:

Chuji Kunisada
Jedo the Jedi
Me=Weird
Oversoul
TOGTFO
mikemike778
Shadow Dancer
malpascp
Kublai Khan
Llamafluff
Tazaro

Vote count:

Me=Weird (1) Oversoul
Chuji Kunisada (2) Me=Weird, Tazaro
Malpascp (1) Chuji
Jedo (1) TOGTFO

not voting:

Jedo the Jedi, mikemike778, Shadow Dancer, malpascp, Kublai Khan, Llamafluff




With 11 alive it will take 6 to lynch
Deadline is Monday August 1st, 7:00am PST

Chuji Kunisada

has 72 hours to pick from the start of the day