Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[imaginality]

@smalls: great. And?

@Ranmaru: I thought DGB's votes are off because I had townreads on both of them (and still do, btw):

With RedCoyote, she voted him for loitering after he admitted he'd been absent and promised to vote. I'd got a town feel from his previous posts, and was inclined to believe his apology was genuine. So that was just disagreeing with her read about his loitering.

Now, you could say it's fair enough if it's just a pressure vote, but RC's posted since she voted him and she hasn't commented on his post in any way. Considering she was voting him for loitering, that seems odd. So that's an additional reason (since my earlier post) why I still suspect her reason for voting him is non-genuine.

As for kunkstar, "defensiveness" is just too easy an accusation to throw around, so it's tempting for scum to base their votes on. It's vague, it often allows the suspect's response to it to be characterised as "further defensiveness", and in particular it doesn't engage with the content: does DGB regard kunkstar as acting defensively in response to good arguments against him (if so which), and/or does she feel the arguments against him were bad (if so which) but he acted defensively anyhow, as scum caught for the wrong reasons? That allows other players to agree or disagree with her more usefully.

And anyhow, I didn't think he'd been particularly defensive in any case. He answers questions people ask him directly. That's pretty normal. If you're looking for defensiveness, I feel there's more genuine defensiveness in some of Crazy's posts, for example:
iso8: "This smells like crap."
iso14: "At least you're not arguing like imaginality is, "Oh, what Crazy did was disingenuous and counter-productive." Pff."
iso15: "Also, kunkstar, can you explain why me voting Imaginality but not you would be indicative of me being scum?"

The combination of dismissiveness and actively trying to attack the arguments against him (compared with kunkstar's more passive responding to questions put to him) seems to fit the 'defensiveness' label better.

Note: I think it's a null tell in general, unless there's good meta reasons for assuming the player is more defensive as town than scum. Most often, I think it's just playstyle-related.

@DGB, next post will answer your questions.

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB, next post will answer your questions.

NO NO

Don't waste your time, I made a mistake.

The questions are for Ranmaru.

You're town. I have no beef with you.

[imaginality]

Rats, misunderstood. I just answered them all... *sigh*

Well, it'll be interesting for me to compare Ranmaru's answers with mine, at least. I've saved them as a draft. Off to bed for now.

[DrippingGoofball]

...RC's posted since she voted him and she hasn't commented on his post in any way. Considering she was voting him for loitering, that seems odd. So that's an additional reason (since my earlier post) why I still suspect her reason for voting him is non-genuine.

"Loitering" is just a one-word note for me. I didn't like his posting, and he floated up the scumputer. The two earned him my vote.

I can expand what I don't like about RedCoyote, it's more than just one word. I couldn't make long detailed iso's on everyone... or anyone.

As for kunkstar, "defensiveness"

Again, that was another short reminder for me as to why I put him there. I'm not seeing much evidence of scum hunting between the bouts of defensiveness, that's the thing. Normally, defensiveness is NOT a scum tell - it's very often a cornered townie. But when you're very stuck in a low-grade defensive, and don't really scum hunt, that's a different animal.

I'm replacing, I have to look at ALL the players at once, so I'm using some shorthand. IT'S NOT A CASE. It's a note-to-self.

I kinda like Crazy's spunky way of responding under attack, actually.

[DrippingGoofball]

Well, it'll be interesting for me to compare Ranmaru's answers with mine, at least. I've saved them as a draft. Off to bed for now.

That'll be cool, actually, it should give you a good perspective.

[Amrun]

Ranmaru, I don't think I re-voted RC for the reason you think I did. Back when I p-edited in a vote and there was a hullabaloo about it, RC said this:

Because backspacing is more annoying than typing on my phone.

You know, I was thinking about pushing you a little over it, but this sounds reasonable.

In other words, RC thought doing this was a scumtell (it isn't), and accepted the silly explanation for this (phone) rather than the more important explanation (transparency) - which I voted both Crazy and WLC for at one point. At the time, I let this slide for RC because the rest of his catchup post outweighed it, but I remembered it. Some of you may not understand this scumtell, but that is okay. I do and that is what is important. It's nothing to hang a day 2 case on anyway.

Then, RC did a little dance around DGB in his last post that did not feel genuine at all and I ALREADY KNOW that RC regards this as a scumtell. He is being scummy by his own definition and I wanted to hear what he said about it. I am probs tainting the answer by explaining, but I'm bored and at a computer and that doesn't happen very often these days.

Lots of RC's posts have bothered me, though I have liked some as well. In particular, the way RC got onto the Hiraki wagon was terrible, as I said earlier today.

I unvoted RC and voted Pom earlier because Pom was being scummy too and yay bandwagons, but after Pom was replaced by DGB, I see no reason to keep my vote there and plenty of reasons to vote for RedCoyote.

I very much want a WLC or RedCoyote lynch today.

[smallpeoples343]

My votes are still the same.

[Crazy]

DGB

not

voting for WLC upon replacing in most likely either means that she's town or they're scum together, and the latter is far less likely just because of probability. If WLC flips scum, I'll consider it, then. But DGB scum/WLC town makes VERY little sense.

To you disagreers - tell me why you disagree with this.

If you were scum replacing in Pom's position, could you possibly see yourself

not

voting for WLC?

I like post 697. I don't really understand why people are giving WLC such a hard time.

Really...? Does it not bother you that Post #697 is his first decent post in this game?

[Amrun]

Uh, town cred? DGB is wifom queen. That being said, I doubt Pom/DGB slot is scum with WLC for several reasons. It just isn't entirely out of the question entirely.

[Ellibereth]

I'm V/LAish for the next 2-3 days. May still be able to post a little...

[petroleumjelly]

Day Two: Vote Count #6

5 WeyounsLastClone (Amrun, Empking, iamausername, Crazy, smallpeoples343)
4 DrippingGoofball (iamausername, kunkstar7, imaginality, Ranmaru)
4 kunkstar7 (smallpeoples343, Ranmaru, DrippingGoofball, WeyounsLastClone)
4 RedCoyote (Empking, Ellibereth, DrippingGoofball, Amrun)
2 smallpeoples343 (RedCoyote, imaginality)
1 Crazy (kunkstar7)
1 Empking (RedCoyote)
1 Ranmaru (WeyounsLastClone)

With

13

alive, it takes

7

to lynch. Deadline is July 20 at 5:00 PM PDT.

Not Voting – 1 – Ameliaslay

Mod Note #1

: I’m gonna go ahead and search for a replacement for Ameliaslay.

Mod Note #2

: I will be

V/LA

from July 13 – 19. I have sent Yosarian2, my back-up Mod, explicit instructions on how to control the game if I am unable to post in a timely manner. For all intents and purposes, during that time period he is essentially the Mod, and any decisions he makes are law. Treat him with the same respect you would treat me.

Mod Note #3

: Empking and kunkstar7 have been prodded.

[Empking]

I'm willing to call DGB town for her movement on the WLC front, though I thought she was town to begin with.

[Empking]

RC needs more votes too.

[DrippingGoofball]

Ranmaru needs more votes, too.

It will be interesting to see how that fish flinches out of the water.

[imaginality]

DGB voting for WLC right on replacing in would have smacked of desperation. I can absolutely see DGB not doing that in order to appear more objective and townie.

DGB + Crazy scumbuddies looks good to me right now.

smallpeoples343's latest post makes me want him lynched all the more, too.

[Ranmaru]

Hey, I'm almost done with the questions. : D

[Ranmaru]

@

DGBALL

:

Mhmm, I didn't think he was scum for that.

Ok.

Oops. Actually, NO I WAS NOT. I said to grow cohones. Spelled it wrong on purpose. I'm not trying to speed up the wagon, I'm telling them to stop being pussies and getting off the wagon for some stupid shit. I am mostly referring to RC. Why you sheepin bro?

Now I'm not on your wagon because "i'm scared" because this SLOT HAS DONE SQUAT. SO THE SLOT WAS NOT THREATENING AT ALL. So stretch harder scum.

Nah. You die.

QUESTION FOR

IMAG

RAN

Why do I scare you so much?

You don't. Your slot has done nothing at all to even scare me. Now you are intent to basing my suspicion as a lynch of fear? Is that it?

Do you have reasons why you should be scared of me?

None. Instead of seeing if I'm trying to read you to value you as a good asset to town you instead

seem to

think I'm trying to lynch you out of fear.

Why are you so annoying? Do you practice, or does it come naturally?

Irrelevant. I won't stop though, so deal with it. Can't let scum breathe. But you say you are wild, so you should be able to take it.

Why do you so rarely follow up on your questions?

I usually do follow up. Sometimes I forget. I do more than just ask questions though.

Do any of these questions have any relation to scum hunting? Explain how.

The above question is the only one so far relating to scum hunting. I see no relevance in asking me these because I try to limit my question to people's stances on other people and votes and wagons etc.

Are most of these questions designed to let people incriminate themselves even when they're innocent?

I don't know, I answer them honestly so I don't feel I'm being incriminated. Some of the questions are. Such as "What are your scum tells?" or "Do you kill people at night?"

Any success so far with this strategy?

Yes, I get to form my reads on people. Asking questions isn't the only thing I do.

Have you helped lynch scum in this game?

Not yet. You or your slot haven't helped catch scum either. I am voting scum. (Both of them)

What did you think about yesterday's wagon on a poor, poor townie?

I didn't like your slot's vote on the wagon, nor did I like Kunkstar's vote on it. RC sheeped on to it so that is also a bit suspicious. Everyone else is fine or null.

Do you kill people at night?

No. Do you?

Is my town read on you completely wrong?

Should I change it?...

Wait, if these questions were MEANT for me why are these questions in here?

Would you be upset if I downgraded you into the scum category?

If I never tell you how the scumputer works, does that make me scum?

It makes you scummy to me yes. You keep posting nonsense about the scumputer and I don't see how it adds up and it's confusing and it's a waste of time if you don't substantiate it. I would like it if you did because it would be a good tool in finding scum but you don't seem to care.

Does it make YOU scum to make threats about it?

No. Why shouldn't I ask about it?

What if someone else explains it to you. Does that make me scum?

No. It makes you anti-town if you

let

others explain it for you. (I say Anti-town because it's a trait of lazyness but I'd take it as a null tell and just rely on your other actions) Others shouldn't explain it for you and instead should badger you to explain it. If it's a copy and paste thing I don't understand why you can't just do that.

Is there anything in your game that I should consider to be strong town-tells? Details please.

Yes. I have asked questions, prodded discussion, addressed multiple players, questioned player's motives, pushed those who I thought were scummy, asked people's thoughts on the Hiraki Wagon to consider WHY he was scum, looked into LK's smalls case and figure it out, gave my thoughts on the Hiraki ordeal, when others have pushed ME I have asked them why, so essentially I wasn't shifting attention off myself, looked at Small's scum meta, and I have pushed for a counter wagon to get the ball rolling ToDay because nothing was really happening.

Is there anything in your game that I should consider to be strong scum-tells? Details please.

No. Innocent until proven guilty. I have done alot more than just ask questions.

[Ranmaru]

Oh wait

I'm confused. I was confusing Imaginality with Ranmaru. I have a town read on the former, and a scum read on the later.

That explains why he's scared, haha.

What made you confuse Imag with me exactly?

Ranmaru needs more votes, too.

It will be interesting to see how that fish flinches out of the water.

Why do you insist on more me votes but you aren't voting me yourself? I noticed you didn't vote me when I am your top suspect.

[kunkstar7]

I unvoted RC and voted Pom earlier because Pom was being scummy too and yay bandwagons, but after Pom was replaced by DGB, I see no reason to keep my vote there and plenty of reasons to vote for RedCoyote.

This confuses me. You had two scumreads, WLC and RC, one of which was a viable wagon (WLC), yet you were willing to sheep the other viable wagon as well without any really strong read on it? I say without any really strong reason because you seemed to have dropped off of the Pom/DGB wagon as soon as DGB showed up, without saying if DGB has really swung your opinion on that slot with her entry.

[Amrun]

What? Not sure that sentence makes sense, kunkstar.

I voted RC for one main reason: his entrance to the Hiraki wagon. He had some other things, but Pom also entered terribly and had some other scummy things. I switched because yay wagons and Ranmaru asked me to so I wanted to see what shook out from it. However, Pom replaced out, which could explain several of the scummy things she did, DGB's post seemed townish but not excessively so, and RC continued to compound his scumminess. RC got scummier and Pom got less scummy. It is not rocket science.

[kunkstar7]

That makes sense, just wanted reasonings for dropping the pomwagon when DGB showed up. Shows your read on that slot better.

[iamausername]

Oh dear I'm totally not feeling like I have a grasp on this game. I guess that means it's time to reread the whole thread and/or iso everybody. Mmm.

[petroleumjelly]

Mod Note

: Quilford replaces Ameliaslay, effective immediately.

[smallpeoples343]

Hello Quilford.

[DrippingGoofball]

Quilford!!!!!!!!!!1

Ranmaru is probably, all things considered, a pants-on-head townie.