Vifam wrote:
What would you like to discuss?
Neil getting an avatar would actually increase the chances of a town win in this game.
Vifam brings "discussion" to the thread by posting this seemingly innocuous comment into play. I would have accepted the avatar bit as a joke had Vifam let it go. However, he instead chose to support his claim with various posts such as:
Vifam wrote:
It's just easier to remember reads this way, when I think someone is scum, I don't want to remember a blue screen, I want to remember their avi.
and
Vifam wrote:
That's terrible reason to vote someone
I've always found that avis help me remember reads a lot easier, not an effort to look town, just my personal experience.
Both of those posts don't actually explain why Neil obtaining an avatar would help town win the game. Unless Vifam has a god complex and anything that helps will help the town. :\
Vifam also, in my opinion, contradicts himself with his original vote on Don Johnson. Putting someone close to a lynch *will* definitely create discussion, if not from the person about to be lynched, but others who may or may not have a read on the said lynchee. I don't understand how putting someone close to a lynch *isn't* creating discussion, but then again I don't understand how Neil getting an avatar would help town either. :\
Vifam does provide a reason for his case against Don Johnson, which I am happy about and it isn't all just "read my mind". His reason states that DJ's initial actions contradict his vote which I would agree with at the beginning in which DJ was voting a couple of people all over the place.
DJ does make a valid point to Vifam stating that he (Vifam) is assuming the intentions of other people. At that point in the thread it did look like Vifam was imposing his own opinions *as* DJ's motives and it seems that he was stretching things to make a potential case on DJ later.
Vifam wrote:SigmaEXE003 wrote:Vifam wrote:Now tell me, how does putting me at L-2 create any discussion other than the tunneling of me?
My guess is at that point we would all begin to take sides. There would be the people who support the bandwagon, the people who are against the bandwagon, and the people that are neutral to it. The supporters would defend why they like the bandwagon, those against it would argue why it's not a good bandwagon, and this would eventually lead into discussion about something else. Maybe one person would take too much effort to support the bandwagon, and then everyone who could see the inherent scumminess of the bandwagon would form a wagon on that person, and the process would repeat itself, but this division would have more information to work with. Of course, this is only one possibility. The point is discussion about one thing, no matter how ridiculous, will eventually lead into more serious discussion. This is why RVS is supported here.
He didn't seem like he was really going for that, IMO. It seems like she thought I was legitimate scum.
Vifam's defense of his reasoning that DJ wasn't actually trying to promote discussion is shakey at best stating that DJ seemed like he had an ulterior motive. That feels like unnecessary WIFOM very early in the game.
Vifam wrote:You still haven't singled out a single post of mine and found a scummy action. All you've done is complain about the content in my posts at this point.
Yeah, Hiraki hasn't done anything scummy, back up shotty.
But you know what was scummy?
Neil's tough guy act.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Neil
I don't have a problem with this post as I agree with his opinion on at this point. Hiraki was, and has been, an active scum hunter and I take it Vifam agreed with that sentiment at the moment of the post. However, Vifam's post on Neil after literally not having suspected, or posted in Neil's direction, seems opportunistic. Vifam's interactions with Neil up to this post had only been defensive posts regarding Neil's avatar and his suspicious post about DJ not wanting discussion with a L-2 vote.
Vifam wrote:neil1113 wrote:The fact that I'm a leading wagon, and nobody has a single case against me, shows just how pitiful and sad half this town really is. Go ahead, lynch me and lose. I'm cool with that. And now, shotty thinks I'm teaming with Hiraki. While nobody in the town weighs in on anything. Well except Vifam and his disbelief in my "tough guy" act. Great.
You're acting as if you're being a dominating town when you've had
-No FOS
-No RVS
-No real attempt to find scum
You've spent more of the game defending yourself rather than really looking for scum, and to top it off, you seem to have an FOS, but you're not voting it? Seems like an act to me.
This post is better as he actually gives a reason for his vote on Neil. I don't necessarily agree with his "points" against Neil such as No RVS (I don't understand how this is pro town or anti town either way, could someone enlighten me?) and the No real attempt to find scum. How could Neil at that point hunt for scum when he was so busy defending himself? I guess hindsight, but meh. I don't like the last two points that much.
Vifam wrote:Don_John can you get anymore scummier?
I'll add some new content in a second.
Vifam gets back into the scumhunting by randomly stating DJ is scummy without any real substance. His next posts don't follow up on the "content" other than an answer to Coventry, but I don't find answering a question the same as "adding content". Semantics? Maybe, but I doubt it. I feel like Vifam is tunneling for DJ's vote at this point in the thread by this post, but for what reason? I'd have to assume a mislynch, but that is only based on my personal reads (I have DJ as a townleaning read).
In his response to Coventry (yes I am being lazy lol) Vifam states that Hiraki is trying to frame him and his implications are that he (Hiraki) thinks either DMSIS and DJ are scum buddies, or DJ and me(Vifam) are scum buddies. Why would that matter? Either way Hiraki was on a wagon that you were actively pursuing. Why would you be mad or suspicious that Hiraki decided to vote for someone that you found very scummy? I am honestly confused about that post. However, he does state that the "slip" Coventry made wasn't a slip and was actually a misunderstanding, something that I know from personal experience can happen (I just replaced into a game and the moderator forgot to include my alignment/wincon in the original pm). At the time, though, I was a little suspicious of Coventry, but I felt that it was a legitimate mistake on her part.
Then he votes the person that is actually supporting his former wagon.
Vifam's next slew of posts don't really contain anything interesting or adequate for analysis until he gets to 371 in which I feel he defends himself with a genuine post against DJ.
Vifam wrote:don_johnson wrote:vifam: i did not ignore 323, in fact, it reinforces my scumread of you. in it you say that hiraki is scum, and that i am also scum. is hiraki/dj scumteam really still plausible to you? and if so, why? the fact that you havent moved your vote from hiraki to me forces me to assume you are still hard on for the hiraki lynch. as sig's flip showed us, some of the bigger proponents of the neil lynch may very well be town. do you think the people actively pushing neil are more likely to be scum than those players who simply hopped the wagon? which category do you place hiraki in(pusher or hopper)?
Whoa, Whoa.
It's very plausible. In fact it's the only team up I'm really seeing. You've had on and off townreads on him ALL game, and he always seems to distance yourself as soon as you get to close.
-DJ votes me, says Hiraki is second scum
-Hiraki follows, but Makes SURE it's to prove DJ is scum
-DJ spots a "slip" and goads Hiraki to hop on it
-Even after that, Hiraki is still sure he is mafia
-DJ drops the vote and calls me scum along with Hiraki
Do you see the order here? Do you see the dynamic going on between the two? Literally every effort DJ made to reach out Hiraki, Hiraki bit the hand. And now all of a sudden we are a scum pair?
If Hiraki and DJ aren't partners, why would he go against DJ on EVERYTHING he's done? Why would he be so aggressive to a random townie when he realizes there could be backlash after the flip?
Think about that.
I am just going to come right out and say it. That is a bad reason in my opinion. How can changing opinions, which you specifically used in your defense against Coventry, be the sign of any alignment? You used it in your defense as a null/town tell, but now you are using as a scum tell? Come on man. :\
I don't understand your rhetorical question of asking why would he be so aggressive? Wasn't Hiraki aggressive to Neil? I don't see how if DJ flipped town their would be a difference. :\
Vifam wrote:Again with the ignoring of my posts.
How about we all lynch Don_John
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Don_Johnson
In this post, Vifam hops right back onto the DJ wagon after making a snarky post against Hiraki. The flipping back and forth is suspicious in my opinion.
Vifam wrote:Seriously guys, explain to me how Hiraki is NOT obviously bussing?
Explain to us how he *is* bussing.
I am sorry guys and now I feel like an asshole for making you all wait.. for like 5 reads... again I am really sorry. 
Slip much?