Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Medicated Lain]

"BM mentioned you! ...as well as more than half the other town. But YOU must be scum!"

[Haylen]

Pfft. Allergies. And Happy Hate the British Day for yesterday! I celebrated it.

MehPlusRawr/Fugitive

Null read from MehPlusRawr due to the fact that he replaced out having said nothing, if he hadn't replaced out but continued prod avoiding that would have been something I'd have found suspicious.

Fugitive

Fencesitting and opportunistic scum if I've ever seen it.

Lack of reasoning or evidence for read.

Scum Motivation

Scum would fail to provide reasoning for their reads due to the fact that they are effectively faking them. It allows them to go along with somebody elses' view and hop on a bandwagon while looking as though they are providing substancial content.

Town Motivation

May genuinely be providing content but not being bothered to post evidence to back it up.

Conclusion

At this point, it could go either way. It's something I obviously find quite suspicious, though.

I've given my opinion on his second post.

Iso 5 looks very much like reaching to me. Fugitive goes on about it being scummy that somebody has come up with a random scum team. It's not scummy trying to find pairs of people, it is however, scummy to not back up your reasons for why they are a scum team.

I notice pretty much a lack of anything from Fugitive with doesn't enable me to do the same town vs scum motivation thing with his posts and I'm at a bit of a loss of how to approach this.

To be continued...

In other news, I don't trust ML.

[InflatablePie]

Will be searching for a replacement for Fugitive (;_;).

Thor665 is replacing in, effective immediately. Thanks!

[camn]

"BM mentioned you! ...as well as more than half the other town. But YOU must be scum!"

Actually, he mentioned a finite group... which I listed.
Plus, I laid out the step by step progression that leads to you.
Which step was the flawed one again?
I have some thoughts about the weak links... but you still fail to even address the issue!

Why avoid the question?

[Thor665]

Hullo everyone.

This is a bookmark post for my own purposes. I'm replacing Fugitive and will be reading up and posting my big honkin' wall of 'You-think-it's-analysis-but-really-it's-all-bad-jokes-innuendo-and-some-fluffy-bits-to-cover-up-voting-someone-whose-face-I-just-don
t-like'

So that will be awesome.
Also, I pretty much just skim anyway, so people should totally tell me who to vote so I can desperately sheep them. Thanks!
Also, you may all worship me as and when you next post, i always appreciate that.

[Medicated Lain]

I don't understand your question camn, what are you asking me to clarify? You have mentioned three people, and gave no in particular reason for voting them except for that BM mentioned them on day one. Why is this scummy? Because I've done this exact thing as scum before.

Does no one else find this incredibly scummy?

On top of this, your actions yesterday certainly weren't clean either. Bringing up the idea of a mass role claim, and going back and forth on whether you were serious about it or not.
The more and more I interact with you, the more convinced I am that you are scum. You are trying to get me to answer questions you aren't even asking me through OMGUS talk, and still not giving any REAL reasons for anything. With that, I think that the only reason you are pointing to me out of those three people, is because I am pointing to you. You're either scum, or easily offended by accusations.

Seems like some people in town know camn, how in character is this?

[camn]

Post 395, Lain. What part do you disagree with?

[Medicated Lain]

I disagree with any notion that #395 is pro town. You just point to players that BM mentioned, and say that one *must* be scum, but give no further reasoning than simply that connection. This is lazy scum play, just looking for an easy place to point to. I've done it myself in the past as scum, and that's why I voted you. Your responses have been nothing but OMGUS, "you must be scum, because you're pointing to me." Which has done nothing to convince me other wise.

Anyways, if I were pointing to anyone based on BM connections, it would definitely be Trip based on their interactions day one, sorry trip >< ... I'm less inclined to vote for trip early on because it's been forever since we've played together.. so he gets a temporary free pass from me. There's certainly a bit of merit behind the other two players that camn mentioned... more so Incog than Yos, but I find a lot more merit behind the camn vote at this point.

What does the rest of the town think?

[Incognito]

Picking up prod. Skimmed the thread, looks like nothing important has happened since I left for vacation. Vote on Incog remains. Had a good time, even worse 3G access than expected in the mountains.

Wtf?


Lain: I could go for a camn-vote, but I really think we should be lynching Thor Today.

[camn]

@Lain: I think my reasoning is sound. It sounds like you contest that BM would have actually inserted a scumbuddy as a scumread day 1. Am I getting that straight? You think he would avoid putting any buddy down as a suspect?

[bvoigt]

@Lain: I agree that Trip and BM are likely buddies.

[TripMyWire]

Okay. I'm back.

Anyways, if I were pointing to anyone based on BM connections, it would definitely be Trip based on their interactions day one, sorry trip ><

Aw. It's okay, I still love you.
I've already said my thoughts about the speculation on his supposed connection with me... and there isn't much to add. I don't think, as Green Crayons is suggesting, that BM was trying to put space between himself and Yosarian. I still believe he was just hoping for a wagon (with Green Crayons as the most likely supporter) on Yosarian. I believe Yosarian is town.

but I really think we should be lynching Thor Today.

Just because the previous two in the slot never posted anything? At least give him a chance to catch up first.

Picking up prod. Skimmed the thread, looks like nothing important has happened since I left for vacation. Vote on Incog remains. Had a good time, even worse 3G access than expected in the mountains.

Thanks for the postcard.
Wait.... so that's it? Pressure's off you so now you're just gonna lurk?

Been paying attention, just not had comments come to me.

I don't think that's how you're supposed to play the game.
So why are you voting Incognito again?

I've had suspicions from the start.

Oh, that's right. Can you elaborate on that please?

[Pine]

No, I don't think I will elaborate. I talked about Incog a while back, and he's done nothing either way to sway me. I believe in sticking with early reads and not second- and third- and fourth-guessing them unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

As for lurking, I've been away a lot in the last couple of weeks, and it's just simply hard to get into games that I don't have a lot invested in.

[Medicated Lain]

I find it interesting that Incog also is for the camn vote. I'm inclined to believe that one of camn or incog, but not both... is scum, but I am unsure of which. Lining up lynches day after day... fugitive today, camn tomorrow, isn't helping incog look any better to me.

Incog: what do you think camn and fugitive/new fugitive are exactly? Do you really think it's more common for someone playing as scum to want to back out? I'm inclined to believe quite the opposite.. on top of that Meh basically just didn't bother with the game, I don't think I'd necessarily call that lurking in the way it played out. Fugitive actually made an attempt, and then the game lost all it's momentum midway. I don't see this pattern as something a scum role would do.. but then I've been away for a while, so feel free to enlighten me other wise.

Camn: I certainly believe that scum will bus as a tactic. I however, am not 100% convinced that they would force themselves to bus on day one. Suppose BM died on night two, and not night one. Day two, BM buses an entirely new set of three people. Assuming we were in that situation, would you specifically choose the people that BM pointed to day one, over day two? I certainly wouldn't. There's information to be gained from what a scum member posted, but without connecting those points to anything else, it just looks like easy targeting.

Trip:

[Medicated Lain]

Eeerrr that was mid post...
Trip: Yay! I'm still loved! I still love you too, even if I kinda think you might be scum.
You are asking questions of folk, but if you had to point out any two people in town, who would they be, and why?

Pine: Agreeing that you need to say some more in this game. You looked all good to me day one, but today, there's just nothing.

[camn]

I think decent scum DON'T Switch targets day 2. They stay consistent day after day.
BM is certainly the kind of player that would plan on his posts being reviewed, and I think there is scum in there.

Could it be Incog? Oh yes. I don't want it to be, but it could.

[Incognito]

@Lain and anyone else who's asking: The way I see it, both MehPlusRawr and Fugitive came into the game almost like they were BOTH replacements. Fugitive was an actual replacement yeah, but MPR was kinda replacement-ish also because he started posting in the game so late. IMO, they both didn't put in any effort and both just completely gave up saying they suddenly had no interest in the game. Yes, I do think scum would be more likely to do that than town; it's hard for some people to replace into a game and manufacture suspicions on people when they're scum. I'm not gonna ignore the fact that it happened to TWO separate people who came into that same slot - that just compounds the chances that the slot is a scum one.

I find it really annoying that people are just letting this pass like it's nothing major. In one of my most recent games (Mafia With The Hydras), I saw this VERY SAME thing happen and people just kinda shrugged it off and let the player slot live to endgame to win it for the mafia.

And for even more anecdotal evidence, I should mention that the only time I've just given up and replaced out of a game that I JUST replaced into was a game that I was scum in. So yeah, Thor needs to die.

[Pine]

I think decent scum DON'T Switch targets day 2. They stay consistent day after day.

MASSIVE WIFOM ALERT.

Not to mention that this is completely false. Good scum DO ANYTHING YOU DONT EXPECT SCUM TO DO.

[Green Crayons]

It strikes me that a player (and replacements) would be more invested the more "fun" of a role they have -- where "fun" includes night actions, which would tend to draw a player into being more active. I think this would hold more true for newer players, to whom night actions are icing on the cake of the game. My initial reaction is therefore vanilla town slots are more likely to be inactive. Incog's point on the difficultly in manufacturing suspicions is valid, but the reverse could also be true: it may be hard for a vanilla townie to identify the suspicious players and their relatively minor power (a single vote amongst 12 or so) can be frustrating. So I find the whole thing less than persuasive, and am not willing at this point to lynch a slot based solely upon lackluster players who have occupied it in the past. It seems like an all too easy lynch in the scum's favor.

But I am willing to place that slot's perpetual "lurking"/inactive status at Thor's feet, so that if he fails to produce activity despite knowing of this issue it is a definite mark against him.

---

What does the rest of the town think?

In re: camn's assertion that one of BM's vote "must" be scum.

I don't think it's suspicious to look at a dead scum's players actions and glean from their play who is likely to be suspicious. (By the by, labeling this strategy "complete WIFOM" like Yos did

is

suspicious.) I do find it strange that camn is convinced that one of BM's voted-for players "must" be a buddy. It's an assumption that she plainly states in 395 and attributes to me. But neither does she explain why she thinks this is the case nor did I prior to that post argue that one of the players voted by BM must be scum (merely that BM's interaction with Yos looks like scum distancing).

Although camn has answered why she made this assumption, I would still like to know why she attributed coming to it to me.

---

No, I don't think I will elaborate. I talked about Incog a while back, and he's done nothing either way to sway me. I believe in sticking with early reads and not second- and third- and fourth-guessing them unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

As for lurking, I've been away a lot in the last couple of weeks, and it's just simply hard to get into games that I don't have a lot invested in.

Finding you to be more pro-town than many other players, I find your willful lack of contribution frustrating. The big two points I recall from your Incog-suspicion is his dice-vote and replacement-vote. Do you want the town to have anything else to go on in trying to be convinced that your suspicions are worthwhile? Do you care to develop these suspicions any further? Do you find any other players suspicious?

[Medicated Lain]

Soo... deadline in a week anyone?
all you have to do is pull the trigger...

[Yosarian2]

Eh. I could really see either ML or Camn being scum right now. Probably not scum together, but they both individually look pretty sketchy.

That being said, I still think we should be lynching Trip today, he's the most likely BM scum buddy in the game.

[bvoigt]

No, I don't think I will elaborate. I talked about Incog a while back, and he's done nothing either way to sway me. I believe in sticking with early reads and not second- and third- and fourth-guessing them unless there's a compelling reason to do so.

All I've really seen in your ISO about Incognito is that his first couple posts were "weird," and he used the dice tags to decide who to vote. Also, what happened to your suspicions of camn?

[Thor665]

Okay - read is happening, I'm sick, I'm bitter, let's see what insights I come up with at the opera tonight.

3. PeregrineV - Luigi Largo, Vanilla Townie - lynched D1.
6. Magua - Rotti Largo, Bodyguard - shot N1.
10. Battle Mage - Amber Sweet, Goon - "anatomy" removed N1.

Obvious scum and SK/Vig kills are obvious.

Incognito's opening double vote shenanigans suggest inside track knowledge. I'd vote him.
Hmmm - Camn defends Incognito from the "hate" on him...aka rwo RVS votes. I'd be flipping out on them both right now.
Green Crayons can be town.

Page 2

Medicated Lain is weaksauce - he can go be scum for attacking for nonsense reasons.
Bvoigt also looks weaksauce for sheeping Incognito's weaksauce case.
I'm trying to decide if camn should be obvious town due to her Magua attack. I don't feel confident enough there yet, but let's call it town vibes.


Page 3

Haylen can be scum - her weak follow Incog play while appeasing and yet not directly addressing what she's appeasing just looks terrible.
It takes camn herself to call out Incog on using a meta attack from 3 years ago - weak. Camn and Magua come out looking town, Incog still looks scum to me.

Page 4

Other people are way more upset about this nameclaim thing than I am, I don't even see it as anti-town. (Pine, Incog, Yos) *especially* if camn is town, one of these is scum.
Green Crayons is the first to call the nameclaim thing for what it is.
If Pine is scum Incog is town.
I <3 Magua.

@ Perigrin - what makes the meta case so well presented? Are you actually going to post your reasons for it or just sheep Incog?

Note: Remember to request something later

You ever request that something later and did anything ever come of it?

Page 5

I'm already starting to really skim some of these quote wall battles. *sigh* taking a break (I remember when I once re-read an entire 80+ page game at lylo 'just to be sure' I must have had a lot of free time and patience back in the day.)
I'll be curious to see how Pine does not get lynched and Pere does.

Page 6

Bleh.

Page 7

Haylen's 158 actually looks pretty town - includes slight dig at BM who was sliding under everybody's radar too.
Camn notices that Crayon is town - nice to see.
Everyone's niceness/qualifier mumble hangup with TMW is, unfortunately, probably null with him.
Hating Yos for lurking like a madman.

Wooosh, Page 7 is done, leaving me about 9 pages to finish (really 8 since I've already read page 18 to see Incog's super sad slap fest of a desire to vote me because if *he* was scum he would have replaced out - so....this slot must be scum.

Yeah, because self meta is best used when applied to 3 other players.
Riiiiiight. I'll put that one into my scumbook o' awesome tells any century now.

Probably will be caught up no later than Sunday evening.
Will have a vote then.
Currently would probably be wanting Pine, Incog, or Yos dead - I think they're my top scumpool with Lain sort of hanging on awkwardly to the coattails but not fully immersed yet.
Crayons, Camn, and actually i think Haylen (which appals me) look pretty town right now.
People (and by people I mean Incog) should also explain how scum advance their win con by flaking out of the game - should be good for a laugh, and I'm a funny guy at heart.

[Pine]

^This is Town.

Good to see you, Thor. This game has done a really piss-poor job of keeping my attention, and you're always good for keeping me engaged.

[Thor665]

Aw, I love buddying - you can be town now
Who are we lynching today by the by?