Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Ant_to_the_max]

No, that is my icing on the cake reason.

The actual cake was the MoS neighborizing me and Empking being a GF

[Thor665]

So you accept that I'm not scum?

[Ant_to_the_max]

That is the way I am leaning right now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Because you knew dana was going to go down, and you took your chance to buddy up with me to look pro-town. And you didn't know about the vig"s" then. You just knew there was "one" more killer.

First off, my questions were to Thor. Secondly, you're right about the vigs, I got my timeline mixed up. Still, your "counterargument" doesn't hold any water because dana was going down thanks to *my* actions pushing him as scum all game. I had been trying to get the mafia RB lynched since Day 1. That was well before a random wagon appeared on me that forced me to semi-claim. You're basically saying that on Day 1 I planned out sacrificing dana so that I could buddy up to you? I don't think so.

That is the way I am leaning right now.

LoL, look at scum buddying up to the townie he hasn't even investigated yet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

EBWOP: Ant just slipped up a bit IMO. He knows Thor is town, but he shouldn't have any reason to think that's the case if he is town himself.

[Ragnarokio]

@Ant: It's Day four and your case is based on the details contained within rolenames? Please respond to each of the little red segments in MoS's PbPa.

@Thor:

1) Ant could have been kept alive until a certain point by fear of a doc. I think scum only had one night after they felt they were safe from docs to remove ant or keep him alive. When a cop is going into LyLo, it's always a matter of his word vs whoever he claims is scum (even if indirectly via town results). Scum don't lose as much as might be intuitive by leaving the cop alive. They kill the cop at night if town makes the right choice, and if they had killed the cop the night before, then LyLo wouldn't have turned out too much worse. Theres jitters in the effectiveness of the play, leaving the cop alive is probably worse most of the time, but with only one night going into LyLo to make the decision, it's not unfeasible that they would leave the cop alive, and try to get him lynched. Especially if the cop already had strongly proclaimed enemies, like me. All it takes is me voting Ant for a scumwin, and from a scum perspective, that might not be a very hard thing to do.

2) Your role makes no sense, I can't see a conceivable purpose for it, and am eager to see how it turns out at the end of the game. A scum dayvig seems overpowered. It will probably be one of those things that can't be determined until all the information is present. Speculation won't help.

Ant's behaviour this game has struck me as very scum-like, and I've held onto that read since the start of the game. MoS's case on him is very good, and I would like to see him respond to each of those little red highlighted sections. I feel like if MoS was scum, I wouldn't be able to read him as such because he feels so withdrawn as a player. I think that if I were to read back, all it would do is re-affirm my initial views, which would be that ant is scum and MoS is neutral.

MBF had a scumread on MoS, and I think that he'd be able to read MoS better than me, so I'm thinking that it's feasible that MoS is scum. If someone could produce a good case on him, I'd be less torn. (well, obviously >.>)

That's essentially where I'm sitting right now.

I can't get a read on emp because he's ridiculous, and I already have a scumread on you, So if somehow MoS was lynched today and flipped scum, then I'd probably lynch you tomorrow, unless a good emp case came up.

[Thor665]

@Rag - I'm ducking out right now, but getting responses back from you appears to be aided by getting them in early;

You post appears to call;

MoS = scum
Thor= scum
Ant = scum but not for the reasons I've said so
Emp = null

Am I missing something here?

[Ragnarokio]

Ant is probably scum.
In the even that ant is scum, Emp is scum.
MoS is possibly scum. (meaning I have some reason to believe he is scum)
In the event that MoS is scum:
Thor is probably scum.
Emp is null.

[Thor665]

In the event that MoS is scum I can only be partners with MoS. I have no other scum partners available - same as you.

[Thor665]

If Ant is scum it's Ant-Emp
If MoS is scum it's Emp-MoS since if Rag is scum she has to be an SK or I am super sad and hate mothrax.

Vote: Empking

The only way I'm wrong with this vote is if Rag is indeed an SK...or, I guess maybe Ant is an SK...whatever, the only way I'm wrong is if there's a theoretical Day killing SK super wtf role and there's only one scum left and it's MoS - in which case I encourage them to cross kill

[Thor665]

Well, I'll toss out - Ant could be scum bussing his buddy MoS, but...yeah, no.

[Ragnarokio]

I probably would have chosen [Ant/Emp] as scum anyway, and in the event that ant isn't scum, theres a small saving chance for lynching scum anyway, so an Emp lynch might actually be better then an Ant lynch statistically.

Ant and Emp may as well be the same person, and it's possible emp is scum even if ant isn't, so yeah.

That works with me, Emp vs MoS makes a lot more sense than Ant vs MoS

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm ok with lynching Empking, since I already know Ant and Empking are scum. The only hesitation I have is that I know for sure that Ant is scum, whereas I only have empirical evidence against Empking (because Thor hasn't hammered me yet). Still, I'm 90% sure Empking is scum, so I wouldn't mind lynching him if it came down to it.

[Thor665]

@MoS - ::cocked eyebrow of confused wtf-ness::

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why?

[Thor665]

Nothing mostly, though it's helping my thoughts for tomorrow.

But here's a counter; You know Ant is scum, you know I and Rag are not scum with him, so...lack of vote after I just laid down mine and Rag just made pretty clear that though she thinks Ant is scum she's uneasy with a MoS/Ant choice and happier with an Emp/MoS choice?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm not sure what you're trying to say...I *know* Ant is scum. I can surmise Empking to be his scumbuddy, because neither of you hammered me. There's a big difference there. Thus, I would prefer to lynch Ant but I will hammer Empking if you won't lynch the obvscum Ant.

[Thor665]

The only way that makes sense is if you think Rag or I are self aligned - is that where you're going with this?

[Thor665]

Yeesh - and if we're self aligned, Antscum can't afford to make a 'scum' cop claim as there's no way it's 2 mafia + 1 self aligned at this stage, and solo Ant can't afford a wrong cop investigation.

You need to explain this, I'm too dumb to get it and MBF isn't here to translate.

[Mastermind of Sin]

How does that make sense? I'm not sure why you don't understand how I can be more certain of the guy who claimed a guilty result on me than the guy who's voting with him.

[Thor665]

How does it make sense?
Let's break it down;

Ant is scum who has false claimed cop.
You are town neighborizer.

He claims guilty on you today for mislynch.

This is all information you know as FACT, yeah? What conclusions do we have now?

Neither Thor nor Rag are scum buddies with Ant - FACT, or they would have hammered for game win at this stage.
If Ant is solo scum, and Thor or Rag are independent, he cannot afford to claim a guilty result, because when you are lynched and flip town everyone will know he is scum and will lynch/kill him next Day/that Night - FACT.

So, we now know for a fact that Ant, if scum, has to have a partner.
We also know that Thor and Rag cannot be that partner.

So...what am I messing up again?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nothing, your logic is perfect. That's exactly my thought process. However, I'm trying to avoid making a mistake over something I haven't thought of yet. I already messed up trusting Ant in the first place, I'm not super interested in giving up on 100% confirmed scum if I don't have to.

[Ant_to_the_max]

dana - leaning scum

Ok?

MarchHare - town

Ok?

Ant misreads my attack on Dana and attempts to defend his scumbuddy.

Like it was pointed out, it was a mistake of 1 word that drastically changed what you said/didn't say.

After I explain why Ant is wrong, he jumps on the Dana wagon.

Chugga Chugga, Chugga Chugga, DEADLINE!!!!

Ant unvotes his scumbuddy to hammer EP, who he hadn't been reading as scummy.

You're kidding right?

Initial Day 2 thoughts were that Peregrine was scummy derailing the dana wagon and that Ant needs to rethink his reads.

Yup. You caught me. Are you honestly telling me that what Pere did wasn't sketchy? And woo, you pick out one of my cop crumb posts saying that I got an inno. Bravo...

Now pings Ragnarokio as responsible for a dana counterwagon on EP, even though he was blaming Peregrine a few posts earlier.

Now pings Ragnarokio as responsible for a dana counterwagon on EP, even though he was blaming Peregrine a few posts earlier.

Are you stupid? Oh wait, no...just scum! This right here is a blatant lie. What I suggested that Rag might have did =/= what Pere did. Only time I came close what when I was making a possible case with connections to Magua.

Goes back to blaming Peregrine for the EP wagon swing that saved dana.

Never left that stance

Asks Peregrine why he's voting dana, calls the vote opportunistic.

Ok. So my memory is a bit weaker about this part because I was very busy IRL then. I think it is safe to say that I tunneled the hell out of Pere this game. At the time he place the vote, there wasn't much from him on why he was placing his vote there.

Continues attacking Peregrine for killing the dana wagon

Yes.

Note: Why not investigate dana, who you were content to vote almost to a lynch before swapping to hammer EP?

Unvotes Magua to vote dana while a counterwagon on me is building. No reasoning given for his vote.

Answered. As Thor pointed out, that should be more of a town tell shouldn't it? If I was scum we could have had your head. And at that point of D2, I liked your slot a lot more for the increase of activity from D1 to D2

Announces innocent result on Empking.

Already explained my logic

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I don't really see what needs to be said for a lot of these. If you have ACTUAL concerns about these points, please tell me and explain how they make me scum.

EBWOP: Ant just slipped up a bit IMO. He knows Thor is town, but he shouldn't have any reason to think that's the case if he is town himself.

Thor and Rag, you have the power to make him shut up. Thor's logic makes sense, which yes, means that we have nailed Empking as the last scum which means that voting him shouldn't be a problem. Although, because of my guilty on MoS I feel it is my duty as town to not take a chance when I have a 100% scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Initial Day 2 thoughts were that Peregrine was scummy derailing the dana wagon and that Ant needs to rethink his reads.

Yup. You caught me. Are you honestly telling me that what Pere did wasn't sketchy? And woo, you pick out one of my cop crumb posts saying that I got an inno. Bravo...

No, I'm not saying that. You know from the ISO I put together on Peregrine that I found it scummy. That particular point was simply in red because it was something in your ISO that involved dana. I want to look at every possible connection you had to dana and Empking. Whether or not it was logical doesn't change the fact that you helped shift suspicion for our failure to lynch dana D1 onto Peregrine. Scum can post logical things, too, especially when it helps them get townies lynched.

Now pings Ragnarokio as responsible for a dana counterwagon on EP, even though he was blaming Peregrine a few posts earlier.

Are you stupid? Oh wait, no...just scum! This right here is a blatant lie. What I suggested that Rag might have did =/= what Pere did. Only time I came close what when I was making a possible case with connections to Magua.

If Ragnarokio flips scum I think we also have enough evidence to link Magua to scum as well. I addition to the defense of her D1 I also found this stood out to me.

Unofficial vote count

danakillsu (4): PerigrineV, mikeburnfire, ReaperCharlie, Mastermind of Sin
Energetic Penguin (2): Magua, Thor665
ReaperCharlie (2): MarchHare, ooba
mikeburnfire (1): danakillsu
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio

Ragnarokio. I know you're active. Thor is not getting lynched today.

Both of you need to put your vote somewhere useful.

quickly followed by

Unvote

Vote: EP

EP's been less useful than Dana, and I'd rather get lurkier people out of the way quicker. My reads on both of them are fairly neutral.

Possibly a "hey, we need a counter wagon for Dana"? These posts really bother me.

And then the attack on ooba. I don't like the argument at all.

Are you really going to claim that this wasn't an attempt to pin the Dana->EP shift on Rag? Bullshit.

EBWOP: Ant just slipped up a bit IMO. He knows Thor is town, but he shouldn't have any reason to think that's the case if he is town himself.

Thor and Rag, you have the power to make him shut up. Thor's logic makes sense, which yes, means that we have nailed Empking as the last scum which means that voting him shouldn't be a problem. Although, because of my guilty on MoS I feel it is my duty as town to not take a chance when I have a 100% scum.

Way to copy me lol...

[Ant_to_the_max]

Didn't bother looking at the new post

And yes, like I said, it is not on the same plane as Pere. Oh, and so you can get your case right...that would be more of pinning it on Magua (leading Rag onto a counter wagon)
That is at a different time then a last minute wagon swing with 2-3? people on V/LA and deadline quickly approaching.