My Little Pony Mafia - GENOCIDAL FRIENDSHIP PONIES

[hohum]

Poor misguided ojanen

[hohum]

Mina's catchup post looks alright to me. Yeah we could call her out for not getting into the details of these big wagons (inhim, jahudo, WLC) but it's reasonable to believe she ran out of steam.

I might be willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as well if this weren't the only time she has promised more than just superficial opinions and completely failed to deliver

[Ojanen]

you blind raccoon
forgot to

unvote

gonna still take another 12 hours for me to get my stuff up. have to sleep, too exhausted.

[Equinox]

Part of it is that she hasn't been as thorough as usual (she's usually freakishly diligent), and part of it is that I find I can't connect to some of her suspicions (the Gammagooey one in particular seems to have come out of nowhere). Equinox, do you have recent scum meta, by any chance?

Gammagooey didn't sound like he did in Mafia MetaMafia, and I was worried that his stream-of-consciousness style might have been forced, which would actually be scummy because using that sort of style makes one look genuine.

My last scum game was Mini 1073 back in October.

[Equinox]

I broke my self-imposed posting restriction by accident.

Sad pony is sad.

In other news, REREAD WALL OF DOOM and Actual Content^TM coming later, but Mina is probably town and Ojanen hasn't broken my read of Maziek. Fluttershy needs to come in here and notice stuff.

[Jahudo]

INHIM IS OBVIOUS TOWN AND I CAN'T FOR THE LIFE OF ME UNDERSTAND WHY HE ISN'T SEEN UNIVERSALLY SO.

inHim called WLC scummy for something that inHim himself does (apply vague terms to players flippant vs. coy).

inHim did not follow up on his WLC vote with any acknowledgement of post 94 or 100.

inHim did not acknowledge that WLC's reason for voting was original at the time, which feels like an attempt to undermine its legitimacy as an opinion.

inHim did not acknowledge that WLC almost certainly understood chesskid's no lynch vote was not a serious attempt to get a no lynch result. That accounted for a good chunk of the page 2-3 discussion, making it redundant for WLC to need to comment on it directly.

Hypocritical, vote sitter, misleading vote placer, and under-researched case maker do not add up to a town player. I have nothing more to add unless someone will debate these points directly instead of blindly stating that "inhim is town just because".

-----

Ah that's true hohum. It's possible Mina is stalling. Maybe she is just taking the easier parts of the game first and saving the bigger, more wordy part for last. Either way it's important for her to really delve into it and also not to be voting someone she has a town read on. Did she just forget?

[Equinox]

inHimshallibe, can I get a link to your most recent scum game(s), please? Thanks!

[hohum]

good luck with that. inHim seems to have flaked like all good caught scum should.

[Gammagooey]

FINE JAHUDO MAKE ME DEBATE STUFF.

STUFF YOU SAID THAT WAS FINE.

inHim called WLC scummy for something that inHim himself does (apply vague terms to players flippant vs. coy).
inHim did not follow up on his WLC vote with any acknowledgement of post 94 or 100.
Yeap perfectly fine reasons to suspect someone. No I'm not being sarcastic these are legitimately decent reasons to be voting inhims.

What.

inHim did not acknowledge that WLC's reason for voting was original at the time, which feels like an attempt to undermine its legitimacy as an opinion.
a)why does not acknowledging it matter when wlc proceeded to do BOATLOADS OF NOTHING after that point (aka remained a good vote)
b)undermind the legit- okay no. Ignoring something is not I AM SECRETLY MAKING YOU LOOK WORSE KEKEKEKE

inHim did not acknowledge that WLC almost certainly understood chesskid's no lynch vote was not a serious attempt to get a no lynch result. That accounted for a good chunk of the page 2-3 discussion, making it redundant for WLC to need to comment on it directly.
-Saying that someone Didn't point out something as part of a case against him is still pretty stupid IMO. Yes it might have been what you would have done in his position, but inhims is a different person AND he had already voted wlc before the explanation went down and wlc remained a good vote past the explanation because of his general uselessness.


As another side note Jahudo what in the hell is this-

Ah that's true hohum. It's possible Mina is stalling. Maybe she is just taking the easier parts of the game first and saving the bigger, more wordy part for last. Either way it's important for her to really delve into it and also not to be voting someone she has a town read on. Did she just forget?

Why are you giving maybes and possibilities and reasons why Mina may still be town even though you think it's scummy instead of trying to read her alignment. This is the exact same thing I've been going on about with you earlier- It doesn't look like you're putting ANY effort into trying to read Mina, just giving an explanation for why she is what alignment she is. (which is probably town)

Unvote, Vote:Jahudo

(Sorry equinox i tried real hards to make the lurkerscum show up but this is too much)

[chesskid3]

I'll promise a catchup explain whatever post mon night or tuesday
i've been unmotivated since awhile ago and at a friends place since friday

[Jahudo]

Are there two inhim's in this game? Have I only seen the evil twin and you guys are hanging out with the good one? [/jokes]

a)why does not acknowledging it matter when wlc proceeded to do BOATLOADS OF NOTHING after that point (aka remained a good vote)
b)undermind the legit- okay no. Ignoring something is not I AM SECRETLY MAKING YOU LOOK WORSE KEKEKEKE

We've already been through this. You should know this if you are reading. Its because inHim DID argue WLC was using a non-original point. Here is where he even admits it:

I was upset he was using that outdated reason.

Ok, I see it now.
<snip>
WLC's point had not been specifically addressed at the time of his vote.

That was untrue so its undermining that aspect of what is being argued. The rest of it, that WLC is doing boatloads of nothing is a separate issue altogether so it doesn't justify this action.

-----

Saying that someone Didn't point out something as part of a case against him is still pretty stupid IMO. Yes it might have been what you would have done in his position, but inhims is a different person AND he had already voted wlc before the explanation went down and wlc remained a good vote past the explanation because of his general uselessness.

The explanation was there before inHim voted. Here is the proof:

I really don't get why you would vote No Lynch during random voting stage. If you're not trying to tie yourself to anyone

That indicates he did not think chesskid was arguing no lynch seriously. And once again it doesn't matter in this aspect of the case whether or not WLC is being general uselessness, it doesn't allow you to throw mud where it doesn't belong. That is bolstering a case for the sake of bolstering it, not because its the truth.

-----

Why are you giving maybes and possibilities and reasons why Mina may still be town even though you think it's scummy instead of trying to read her alignment. This is the exact same thing I've been going on about with you earlier- It doesn't look like you're putting ANY effort into trying to read Mina, just giving an explanation for why she is what alignment she is. (which is probably town)

A) I didn't call it scummy.

B) I'm a player who asks before accusing so you shouldn't be surprised at this point in the game. I don't get the reference of doing ISO's in alphabetical order but I assume there is one. And her cut-off point was just before inhim and myself but its both possible that one could have planned to cut off there for a number of reason or unintentionally ran out of time. There's no good reason to assume the worst and accuse her now. She has time to come back.

[Jahudo]

EBWOP: Gamma, I have the perfect reaction image for when you finally see the light. So hurry up!

[Gammagooey]

I am blind and can only see darkness.

I really don't get why you would vote No Lynch during random voting stage. If you're not trying to tie yourself to anyone

That indicates he did not think chesskid was arguing no lynch seriously. And once again it doesn't matter in this aspect of the case whether or not WLC is being general uselessness, it doesn't allow you to throw mud where it doesn't belong. That is bolstering a case for the sake of bolstering it, not because its the truth.

Maybe I finally see what you're differing on here.

HERE IS HOW I READ THAT STATEMENT-

I really don't get why you would vote No Lynch during random voting stage [as town]. If you're not trying to tie yourself to anyone

Notice that the second portion of the statement (tie yourself etc etc) is an explanation of why scum might do it but not town.

HOW YOU MAY HAVE READ THAT STATEMENT-

I really don't get why you would vote No Lynch during random voting stage [as a serious vote]. If you're not trying to tie yourself to anyone

and yeah.

I'll talk about mina and everything else in the post in a sec. I still think you're scum tho.

[Gammagooey]

Ah that's true hohum. It's possible Mina is stalling. Maybe she is just taking the easier parts of the game first and saving the bigger, more wordy part for last. Either way it's important for her to really delve into it and also not to be voting someone she has a town read on. Did she just forget?

Is stalling scummy? Is voting someone she has a town read on scummy? If not what was the point of making that portion of the post?

And I think actually almost everything else can pretty much be explained by you reading it as "why this happan [as serious vote]" and inhims reading it as "why this happan [as town]".

[Twilight Sparkle]

Vote Count #13

inHimshallibe:

Mina, Jahudo, hohum, chesskid3 (L-3)

WeyounsLastClone:

TheLonging, Fluttershy

chesskid3:

Ojanen

, WeyounsLastClone

Jahudo:

Gammagooey

TheLonging:

Espeonage

hohum:

inHimshallibe

Mina:

Pinkie Pie

Fluttershy:

Equinox,

Gammagooey

Not Voting:

Ojanen

Day One Deadline

(expired on 2011-07-02 03:00:00)

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Prodding inhimshallibe.

[hohum]

For the record I'd like to apologize to Mina for the snarky tone of my last message, but the points I made still stand.

[Equinox]

So I just noticed Pinkie Pie actually exists in this game.

The only things that have come out of MehPlusRawr, Katsuki, and Pinkie Pie are:

"We kinda sorta flaked but didn't or something."
"Here's Pinkie Pie in case you guys don't know her and we'll be reading."
"Oh, we'll be reading... so why's there a wagon on inHimshallibe?"
"TheLonging is probably town because of meta and etc."
"Smiley face indicating our disgust at something Equinox doesn't care to look up." (Okay, it's just the smiley and nothing else, but I'm feeling like a snark at the moment.)

I'm not going to count the abyss that was June 16-22 because MehPlusRawr disappeared or somesuch and Katsuki was away at Goofbash. From June 22-26, however, this is all we've gotten from this hydra.

Look, if you haven't read because you haven't gotten the motivation necessary to do so, just say that; you wouldn't be the first to have caught the bug, and I know I'm no paragon at staying on top of this game. But there is a giant sea of NOTHINGNESS out of this slot despite the three little softballs labeled "Mina," "inHimshallibe," and "TheLonging." Get in here or get out.

Same to chesskid3. If you can't get in here by Tuesday as you've promised, you should get out, too.

Aaaaand this applies to myself as well given that my Mafia time has been soaked by miscellaneous junk and I'm not devoting my full attention here as I should be. Should be rectified today, though, I'm actually looking up stuff and feeling more motivated than I've been for the past week, which is good news in general.

Oh, yeah, no more terrible Southern from me. The two of you out there can now celebrate.

[Jahudo]

Yeah that is how I read it first and foremost, Gamma. He doesn't see how it could have been a serious vote, so he decided it wasn't and from that saw that scum might use a joke to avoid connections.

Stalling would be scummy but I include the alternate theory that she ran out of time and energy, which is what she said. I'm leaning towards the time and energy, otherwise she wouldn't be a null read for me like I said. If she's posting elsewhere on the site and ignoring this thread that would be the difference maker for me, like it was for Espy.

I have an idea of why Mina as town would still be voting someone she has a town read on. I'd like to see why she did before I say what it is.

[Ojanen]

The reason I'm calling people blind raccoons is because it's frustrating to expain what is incredibly obvious to me.
References.

Not to beat the 'no lynch' horse (or pony in this case) again, but I really don't get why you would vote No Lynch during random voting stage. If you're not trying to tie yourself to anyone, I think that's more beneficial as scum than town. It's a RVS for a reason.

Vote: TheLonging'

Need to read some other games of chesskid to see if this is how he plays. If so, it's a bit too 'flippant'. (not sure if that's the exact word I'm looking for, but hope you get what I mean).

PEDIT: WeyounsLastClone

vote: WeyounsLastClone

For 1)not commenting on discussion between those of us who had voted and subsequently unvoted TheLonging, 2)being vague about chesskid, and 3)killing innocent ponies.

This is a PEDIT at the end of a longer post. 7 minutes after WLC post. It's a knee-jerk-reaction type vote post. It's a SCUMPUTER impulse post, not a "let me write a deliberate case" post. It's also incredibly obvious that WLC's post would tug many guts easily. It's completely believable.

inHim next comment after WLC defence

So, off the record here, you don't think WLC's post/vote leading to his wagon weren't "really overly scummy"? Could you explain your thought process on that?

asking this from espy and stating own exact post-answer stance would be conflicting strategies for information gathering. it's psychologically way more effective when people don't know exactly what you think when asking their stance on a specific thing.

I didn't slip onto chesskid's reasoning at all, was just encouraging more votes.
My beef with WLC comes from using the No Lynch vote as reasoning after there was a lot more content to be explored when considering who to vote at that juncture.

Both of these are totally legit to me.
all he ever said to chesskid's simulpost was the one-liner "GIDDYAP".
The second part is in complete harmony with original post first point:

"1)not commenting on discussion between those of us who had voted and subsequently unvoted TheLonging"

It's not about TheLonging specifically. It's about bringing stuff that is long past being at all a dynamic element in thread, not commenting at all about anything else, side-lining, and the fact that the old element was RVS scale weak, and recognized by most to be, a joke/messing around.

Jahudo's response is a complete misunderstanding.

If you felt that way about his attitude towards a no lynch vote all along, then why didn't you say so before now? I don't get why someone would lay out half their case and keep the other half to yourself after someone else brought it up.
So you are on a wagon for one reason, and someone else is on the wagon for another reason. You agree with them but don't want to say you agree. I can't see a reason for town to hide a stance once its out in the open like that. I can only think of scum who aren't sure whether that point is something to rally around or not, because it may falter.

First paragraph, what? Look at the inhIm lines. They are consistent. Second paragraph, again, what? inHim only ever said GIDDYAP to chesskid. inHim: "I didn't slip to chesskid's reasoning", not implying he agreed on reasoning but target. Jahudo: "why didn't say aloud that you agree, you scum."

You voted TheLonging for seeing the "no lynch" vote as anti-town and scummy in theory, while not thinking of why scum would be motivated to make that move like that. His reasoning was that 1 no lynch vote is closer to getting a no lynch result, and that scum would want to try for that result.
WLC used different reasoning. He said that using no lynch is a way to not tie yourself to somebody. That argument can effortlessly be made without referencing TheLonging because they are different tells.
How you can not see the difference between the two makes me think you are not analyzing the case past the premise. You jumped into that vote within minutes of WLC's post, like you are trying to falsely push momentum from TheLonging wagon onto this one when it isn't justified.

1st+2nd paragraph: talking past inHim.
He never said WLC was not original or not.
A point can be original and still easy, side-lining, concerning old rehashed stuff, omitting all themes moving somewhere.
End paragraph: dear god man, has he never seen gut? Fast vote=false momentum but why. he, too, questioned W at the time. He gets chesskid's playstyle. Empty rhetorics.
More incessantly boring explaining of the obvious happens. Then, Jahudo acknowledges.

Yes, this line of thought does not excuse WLC's lack of scumhunting after his vote, like commenting on chesskid's other posts or talking about some other topics in general. WLC is someone to watch in that way.

and then? Jahudo speaks about other stuff, vote stays. suspicion stays. later:

And the little argument between Jahudo and inHim did confuse me a bit (still does) I thought inHim was clear in what he was trying to say and I think you (Jahudo) did finally understand what his point was. So does that mean you found his answer to be satisfactory? I take it you didn't because your vote is still sitting on him.

No, read it again. inHim was using the false logic that both WLC and TheLonging were voting chesskid for the same reason. That is still fact and I stand by the conclusions I drew from it. The only benefit I gave him was that WLC is not doing enough scumhunting and therefore does not look town at the moment. But the way inHim voted him was inappropriate.

NOOOOO????? as endlessly explained, he wasn't.
The way inHim voted was "inappropriate"? that is a very bad word to describe activity trying to catch scum and my scum doesn't like it.

I'm not sure walling this up will help but in summation.

Hypocritical, vote sitter, misleading vote placer, and under-researched case maker do not add up to a town player. I have nothing more to add unless someone will debate these points directly instead of blindly stating that "inhim is town just because".

You have some nerve to call inHim a vote sitter - he's been one of the most dynamic I think, while self-proclaimedly sit hard on your vote, and launched at inHim at a point in time you were starting to get pressure for being overly moderate. Hypocrit - maybe yeah with the coy business, but I guarantee you I could go and find one such instance from every so far participating player in this game.(e.g. previous sentence for you). The rest is misunderstanding, genuine or deliberate.

[Gammagooey]

jahuuudo if inhims read it like I did is it still UBERLYINGSCUMOMG because I don't think it is.
And I reaaally think you're scum given the number of times I've seen things like your Mina comment come from other scum as well as myself as scum on epicmafia and all the earlier stuff I've gone over and the making big ol' deals of This is my playstyle and (implication) therefore it it isn't scummy and yeah. (for super secret bonus meta I did the playstyle thing as scum to get townpointz in Ninja Mafia Boogaloo in day 1)

oh hay ojanen.

[Equinox]

Ninja Mafia Boogaloo

[Gammagooey]

LEARN FROM YOUR MISTAKES PONY.

LYNCH THE DUDE THAT IS TRIPPING EVERY SCUMTELL GAMMA HAS.

[Jahudo]

This is a PEDIT at the end of a longer post. 7 minutes after WLC post. It's a knee-jerk-reaction type vote post. It's a SCUMPUTER impulse post, not a "let me write a deliberate case" post. It's also incredibly obvious that WLC's post would tug many guts easily. It's completely believable.

That's your opinion then. I believe its more likely to come from scum because it doesn't require checking any facts and they can leap onto that gut string.

asking this from espy and stating own exact post-answer stance would be conflicting strategies for information gathering. it's psychologically way more effective when people don't know exactly what you think when asking their stance on a specific thing.

Except he wasn't asking Espy about the defense. He was asking him about the original vote post. That is not a good excuse for ignoring the person you are voting.

First paragraph, what? Look at the inhIm lines. They are consistent. Second paragraph, again, what? inHim only ever said GIDDYAP to chesskid. inHim: "I didn't slip to chesskid's reasoning", not implying he agreed on reasoning but target. Jahudo: "why didn't say aloud that you agree, you scum."

It was a sign of encouragement. He was advertising the wagon using chesskid's vote, that's as good as an endorsement.

He never said WLC was not original or not.

Not in the vote post but later on he admitted that he did think that way from the start.

A point can be original and still easy, side-lining, concerning old rehashed stuff, omitting all themes moving somewhere.

So you would say it did in this case? Easy, sure. Side-lining, what? Rehashed, no.

You have some nerve to call inHim a vote sitter - he's been one of the most dynamic I think, while self-proclaimedly sit hard on your vote, and launched at inHim at a point in time you were starting to get pressure for being overly moderate. Hypocrit - maybe yeah with the coy business, but I guarantee you I could go and find one such instance from every so far participating player in this game.(e.g. previous sentence for you). The rest is misunderstanding, genuine or deliberate.

He's a vote sitter because he hasn't grilled WLC with questions. I did to inHim early on but now I'm very confident he is scum, so now I'm mostly trying to clarify my position to anyone who'd listen and waiting for the questions I asked Fluttershy, etc.

[Jahudo]

LYNCH THE DUDE THAT IS TRIPPING EVERY SCUMTELL GAMMA HAS.

So I take it nothing short of a Jahudo town flip would help you start to see inHim as scummy? Ah who am I kidding, I'd still look like I was oatmeal.

I'm starting to wonder if we'll have enough votes for a lynch. There are plenty of lurkers, my wagon could probably be L-3 right now and I don't think anyone else has expressed suspicion of inHim so it's realistically L-4 right now. So we better figure something out this week and hope Pinkie Pie / Fluttershy / WLC / Espy come back in earnest.

[hohum]

Jahudo: I'm open for suggestions. I wouldn't mind seeing a Mina lynch.