NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[Chair]

I told myself I would look through this game today. I'm going to do so now.

Also, mastin replacing in makes me sad, because even though deadline is soon we're probably gonna have about 10 more pages before the day is over.

-implosion

[Ethos]

Mastin, concisely as possible (and then some) point out specific things that make Empking town. If possible, please point out individual things as well as connections to other players.

[Untrod Tripod]

I kinda am, in a way. I have raw thoughts in my notes. I then post the conclusions from said raw notes. The conclusion from the conclusion is likely what you're wanting. And I think that--now that the first five (most important, by the way) pages are out of the way, for the moment--I'll be posting less.

The best part is that your reads are probably completely wrong. Cheers.

I haven't read most of the new content, but I have read enough to know that I'm fucking relieved that Ythan is gone and I don't even mind that the alternative is Mastin. Hi, Mastin! Tripod also needs to stop squabbling with the masons and the blatantly town Yosarian, but I don't know what this says about his alignment because it's not like he's physically capable of playing a town role anyway. Tripod, are you scum?

-Ether

I would disagree with that assessment, obviously. Also no, I am not scum. I'm not sure what to make of you not bringing that up until now. I expected you to be policy voting me all game on that basis. What gives?

[Îdher]

Okay. What were you trying to accomplish by yelling at Ethos for semantics after his mason claim? Why, exactly, do you think Yosarian is scum?

That would require me to actually have been following this game instead of dumping the work on Amrun. I'm trying to fix that now, obviously, but there's a lot of stuff here that I'm saddened to be putting up with again.

-Ether

[Chair]

First of all, as Misder said, I have as town reads: dram, ethos and T-bone (masons), hiraki, oversoul, (at this point, both just have generally townish vibes), yos2 (i eventually began thinking that the entire para/ethos/ythan thing was TvT, yos looks like town, I never really had a scum read on ethos either), mastin (even with ythan's role fishing, I still feel like his play was very townish - it felt very much like what I know of town-ythan from the open game i modded), îdher (probably one of the weakest townreads, but the lack of vote for several pages looked like it was an attempt to attract attention, which would make it more likely town than scum, and nothing's been done that would make me think scum really), knight (essentially gut).

Not to imitate mastin, but this leaves for the most likely scum as far as i can tell: kanye, untrod, spyrex, empking, kunkstar, saporo, mrzepher.

Looking at kanye's ISO, he looks scummy to me. Posts 97-98 look manufactured. The attack on Ethos in 318 just feels bad... like a lame excuse to jump on a wagon. The reasons for attacking Ethos are: 1) sheeping quil's reasoning that Ythan/Ethos aren't both town. This is bad reasoning in the first place... there's no intrinsic reason that any given conflict, even if extended like this, can't be town on town. 2) Backpedaling on the reason that Ethos wasn't posting. So what... this is such a minor point that it's ridiculous to attack him for it. 3) Using meta. There's no reason to think that using meta = scum.

Basically, his voting ethos just looks really bad, wagoning while giving really bad reasons for it. Ethos also brought up some of this, and kanye's 347 responding to ethos's arguments is also pretty weak. None of his responses feel like they actually address the arguments Ethos was making. They feel like kanye is just repeating the arguments that he made originally. For example: when Ethos makes a point that kanye sounds disingenuous and that he shouldn't be asking ethos to stop making bad arguments if he thinks ethos is scum, kanye doesn't actually respond to either of these points and just continues to say what he was saying before: "i'm going to keep calling you out for using meta," essentially. He isn't answering the questions, he's just repeating rhetoric.

Untrod, I'm really not sure about. He's the kind of person whose posts give a strong null vibe; i find it difficult to discern information about his alignment from his posts. As Misder brought up, his voting pattern hasn't been particularly good, so I'd agree to put him in the scum category, but probably null-leaning-scum. I'm kind of sheeping Ethos and even Misder on this, but I just can't freakin read him.

Spyrex, I've explained why I see him as likely scum. Time will likely tell his alignment with more certainty. I have him as fairly likely scum for now, but He's likely to become a stronger read as time goes on, based on the way that he plays. Specifically, he's been in the group that's been tunneling/attacking ethos/para for most of the day; seeing what he does after that will be informative.

Empking is empking. He looks kind of townish, but he's like untrod except taken to three new levels. Empking is, in a way, null by definition. His posts feel somewhat genuine, so I'm inclined to lean slightly town. Quilford, I had mixed reads on. Idher had a good point about... something, I don't remember what and don't feel like looking, but Misder and I also had an early town read on him iirc. Also,

Chair: Actually, why were the masons split up?

What?

kunkstar: i kind of like his response to my question in 418. It feels genuine. kunk's posts look overall legitimate, and I don't really see anything else that makes me feel one way or the other strongly. I'd put kunk as null-town.

saporomask: I get nothing from the mask. as for saporo: 483 sounds very similarly to how I felt about Ethos before the mason claim. That doesn't really get townpoints or scumpoints, though. It could (obviously and assuming ethostown) be either a townie reading the situation correctly or scum trying to gain credit for defending a townie who's under pressure. The post itself doesn't make me feel either of these over the other to any relevant extent. Nothing of saporo's really sticks out to me... I think she's overall null for now. I just don't get any strong vibes - not in the same way as untrod or emp (as in, it isn't that what she's saying feels inherently difficult to glean alignment info from) it's just that I'm not really getting anything out of it.

zepher (but really swag): scum lean, but not enough posts to really be that strong. Post 151 just does not make sense. post 111's "sorry for being a noob" feels just a bit contrived. Excitement for the game starting is null, as a newbie could be excited to be either alignment.

So My main scumreads would be kanye, untrod, zepher (but he hasn't posted yet so we'll see), and spyrex. I'm leaving our vote on untrod for now, since misder has a scumread on him and deadline is approaching and there's another vote on him. Empking wagon going through wouldn't be too bad. Yos wagon going through would be bad. I'll move our vote to emp if necessary for a deadline lynch.

Also,

Deadline is in slightly under two days. There's a countdown for it at the top of page two, for those that want/need it.

[Chair]

Above (and this) are implosion, if not obvious.

[MrZepher]

Hey guys, sorry I've been at a camp all day.

I've been busy all week so I'm going to speed read through this ASAP to make sure I have everything down.
I'll post content as soon as I do that

[MrZepher]

JK. I'll have to post tomorrow.

I'm fucking exhausted and can't retain the information I feel I should be retaining.
I think I have a couple of reads but they're strange and either I don't want to attempt to explain them half-mindedy and risk misrepresenting my own opinions,
Or posting and then realizing that I wasn't seeing anything of what I was seeing.
(I see mastin is in this game (OH HAY), he should understand the importance of being coherent while attempting to post more than anybody else I know)


tl;dr: I'm going to bed. I'll post tomorrow. Chao.

[Îdher]

If you're still here, would you talk to me? I'm in a similar boat.

-Ether

[Empking]

What?

In your town list you put two masons together but then added T-Bone later. Why?

[Chair]

What?

In your town list you put two masons together but then added T-Bone later. Why?

I think I forgot that he was one of the masons at first when I was listing my town reads to misder.

-implosion

[kunkstar7]

KoC and UT why are you voting Yos? I'm saying you are wasting your votes on that wagon.

[T-Bone]

Deadline is in about a day, everyone needs to keep that in mind.

Vote: Untrod

His play, all scum all the time. He should be today's lynch.

[Ethos]

People on UT wagon, compromise and get on the Empking wagon.

Dramonic, halp please. Emp isnt town.

[Empking]

Since I don't want to claim at the 11th hour:
I'm a one-shot vig.

I should be able to confirm myself tonight

[Ethos]

unvote
vote UT

Shoot Kanye.

[Îdher]

unvote

I would like Empking to claim who he's targeting before we go to night. It's not like there's anything in this setup to prevent his shot from going through.

Hiraki's death, for example, is something I would be completely cool with.

-Ether

[Empking]

I'd like a Hikari shot too.

[T-Bone]

If we don't lynch Untrod, shoot Untrod. Or shoot Mastin. Ythan didn't do anything to prove he's town.

Ideally we would lynch Untrod and you shoot Mastin. Of course nothing ever goes to plan in mafia, especially mine...

Alright. Hiraki isn't a bad shot. #3 in my preference list.

[Chair]

Agreed with ethos. I'd like a kanye shot.

However,

announce who you are shooting today

. With this setup, we don't want to make the mistake of shooting someone who could potentially be confirmed town (innocent children and treestumps specifically would be awful to vig). Announce it soon, too, since deadline is in barely over a day.

-implosion

[Empking]

I'll kill Hikari then.

[Hiraki]

Yo bakanro.

I re-read the thread. Follow me up on this shit.

KoC, or Kanye.

Yosarian isn't scum, get the fuck off him.

Mastin town. Add Uni to scumread, not only for Mastin vote but also for his recent postings being a bit erky at best.

Yeah. I just re-read from where the mason claim took place. By missing that once, I went a little fuzzy.

We're good now though.

Unvote, Vote: Unitrod Tripod

Not sure about Empking though.

Actually, no. I have to do that now, or else I'll pull a procrastination part 2.

#511 makes me happy.

Unvote

Vote: Hikari

I don't get the calls for him to claim buddies. Is that based purely on a presumption of innocence or is it including safety from it being a fakeclaim?

huh

Not liking the Yosarian vote.

Can someone summarize that case for me?

[xRECKONERx]

Yosarian2 (4): Swag136, Knight of Cydonia, Untrod Tripod, Empking
Hiraki (1): dramonic
Îdher (1): Oversoul
Empking (3): kunkstar7, saporovirus, Yosarian2
Chair (1): SpyreX
Untrod Tripod (5): Chair, mastin2, T-Bone, Ethos, Hiraki

Not voting: kanyeknowsbest, Îdher

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-06-27 21:00:00).
With

17

alive, it takes

9

votes to lynch!
Prodding kanyeknowsbest.

Warning: deadline rapidly approaching.

[SpyreX]

One last push before I give up and have to swing for a deadline:

I think I forgot that he was one of the masons at first when I was listing my town reads to misder.

-implosion

This needs to be explained asap because it suuure looks like you went "Dramonic is town" but forgot T-Bone without their mason claims being a factor.

Which is absolute teaparty.

[Knight of Cydonia]

I kinda am, in a way. I have raw thoughts in my notes. I then post the conclusions from said raw notes. The conclusion from the conclusion is likely what you're wanting. And I think that--now that the first five (most important, by the way) pages are out of the way, for the moment--I'll be posting less.

The best part is that your reads are probably completely wrong. Cheers.

Not a "here's why I think you're wrong", just "you're wrong stfu"? I may be more than a little pissed with Mastin over [redacted for ongoing] but that doesn't mean he gets an instant dismissal.

Also:

masons give you information

having two or three confirmed townies is incredibly powerful. Plus either the scum has to spend their kills on them instead of other possible power roles if they don't want confirmed townies floating around in the game. Also it gives a possible town cop or vig a smaller number of targets. Information won't hurt the town. It will, however, hurt scum.

to

As far as anything is concerned, we should be treating Masons as power roles. Pretty powerful for a group of people confirmed to each other compare and contrast notes privately. And thus further discussion on the rest of them outing themselves is not pro-town discussion.

Remember the list roles on the first page are POSSIBLE ROLES. What if this mason group are the only power roles and everyone else is Vanilla or scum? Then it would be very bad for them to be outted on Day 1. Bad enough Ethos had to do it.

I don't see a counter-claim, I don't see a mason saying "nope not in my group" which should lead everyone to the conclusion that he isn't lying.

The votes on this lynch train should stop at the next station and hop off.

This post is so wrongheaded it's making me dizzy.

makes pretty much zero sense.

I do just want to throw out a word of caution though - masons are only a

possible

role. For all we know, this is the three scum playing a massive gambit of

• One makes mason claim
  
• Wait for counterclaim
  
• If none is forthcoming, scumbuddies claim partners
  
• If claim IS forthcoming, well, you just found the masons

so while they

may

be extremely useful to town, we shouldn't give them a free pass. They're all confirming each other, which is not the same as being true-confirmed. That said, Untrod's probably the most viable lynch so I'm willing to give them a pass for now.

unvote
vote: UntrodTripod