Double-Dip Mafia, Game Over

[Hiraki]

The whole Ranmaru thing was a pun toward the post #38 thing.

[Amrun]

Crazy, how does explaining your suspicion of imaginality disrupt his normal play more than saying he's in your top 3 scumreads?

[imaginality]

@Imaginality: How does random votes make Pom scummy? Can you expand on why Crazy's second sentence was counter productive?

@Crazy: Since when have you put yourself on invisible?

Because explicitly stating one's votes are random is slightly over-cautious and unhelpful. Unhelpful because if the idea of the RVS is in part that we can find scum by seeing whose votes/comments might possibly be non-random in scummy ways, then to explicitly vote randomly is sort of like pleading the 5th and refusing to say anything.

Overcautious because town shouldn't have reason to worry about their votes being suspected scummy (since they know they're not), whereas scum prefer not to have the attention on them so are more likely to use the "This vote really is just random, honest guv," line.

Now, of course, this is a very very weak reason to suspect someone. But that's my view of the RVS - it's a minimal information stage, but applying pressure and scumhunting based on that minimal information helps us uncover stronger clues and better reads. So I think it was plenty enough reason for a vote on her at this early stage.

--

Crazy's second sentence was counter-productive because, supposing Ellibereth had a good reason for asking the question, it would be rendered pointless by revealing how he intends to interpret the answers, since anyone answering after that point would know what he's looking for. Better would have been to let Ellibereth garner his answers, and then jump on him if he failed to do anything useful with them at that point.

Which is also why I felt Crazy's previous sentence was disingenuous - since the second sentence made it appear he either had already assumed there was no value in the question, or else didn't care if there was or not, rather than actually thinking there might be.

--

Imaginality is in my Top 3 for sure, but he needs to post some more first, and I don't want to explain why he's scummy NOW because I don't want to upset his natural play.

This contrasts with your less laissez-faire approach in the case of Ellibereth's question (presumably also part of his 'natural play'). Why the difference?

[Amrun]

Walls of Doom on page 3. Smh.

That being said, the content was good, just too long-winded.

[Ranmaru]

@Crazy: Since when have you put yourself on invisible?

One of our previous games together. Not to be mean, but the "Hi, Crazy, I see you're online, can you post now?" got a little tiring.

@Crazy: You generally approve of wifom. Why do you speak out against it here? What has made you do this in the span of time between our newb and this game?

I should ask the same question of you. I thought you

hated

WIFOM.

As for me, the WIFOM factor here isn't what bugs me, though I expected it to bug you. I just thought the whole line of thought Ellibereth was going down was stupid and pointless.

Haha ok. Fine I'll just look at your recent posts. Just kidding.

No, just trust me, it's a good idea. I can't believe you'd be against such a thing though.

Well I don't like it if you try to clear yourself with wifom. Speculation about wifom is fine, it's just speculation. If someone uses it to frame someone else, I will find that suspicious.

This seems to be a much looser stance than you've had in the past. Has your opinion changed?

Yes. I have done NK speculation in my other newbie I replaced into. (It was situational and I thought it would help to brighten why scum did what they did) I have done what Elli has done so I know what he was trying to get out of it. Not saying what though.

Check this link: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 9#p3091739

I was town there, and that was where I have seen Lk's play.

[Ranmaru]

@Imaginality: I'll get to you later today. : D

[Crazy]

Crazy's second sentence was counter-productive because, supposing Ellibereth had a good reason for asking the question, it would be rendered pointless by revealing how he intends to interpret the answers, since anyone answering after that point would know what he's looking for. Better would have been to let Ellibereth garner his answers, and then jump on him if he failed to do anything useful with them at that point.

This smells like crap. Ellibereth's question had either a yes or no answer. My calling him out on it wouldn't affect anyone's answers. Please explain.

This contrasts with your less laissez-faire approach in the case of Ellibereth's question (presumably also part of his 'natural play'). Why the difference?

Different situation. My suspicion of Ellibereth was based on a specific thing he said. My suspicion of you was based on a general feeling. If I told you why I didn't like your post, then you'd be able to change the way you post. Bleh.

[petroleumjelly]

Day One: Vote Count #3

5 Crazy (Ranmaru, imaginality, [Low Key], Amrun, Ellibereth)
4 Pomegranate (Empking, imaginality, [Low Key], Amrun)
2 imaginality (Pomegranate, Hiraki)
2 Ranmaru (Crazy, Empking)
1 [Low Key] (Ranmaru)
1 Hiraki (Pomegranate)
1 iamausername (Hiraki)
1 RedCoyote (iamausername)
1 smallpeoples343 (iamausername)

With

15

alive, it takes

8

to lynch

, and

5

to lynch at deadline

. Deadline is July 15 at 4:00 PM PDT.

Not Voting – 5 – Ameliaslay, kunkstar7, RedCoyote, smallpeoples343, WeyounsLastClone

[WeyounsLastClone]

Vote: Amrun.

Mobile posting I don't really see as excuse of editing yourself in the first post. Also, slipping in as a fourth vote on Crazy.

Vote: [Low Key]

cuz I don't like bracket or what they're called

[Empking]

Unvote: Ran
Vote: imaginality

[Amrun]

Lol.

I love this game so far.

Unvote: Pom, Vote:Weyouns

[smallpeoples343]

Hmm... no clue why RVS applied to me

Vote: iamausername

Vote: Pom

because Pom have tasty seeds, but make terrible juice.

[Pomegranate]

Busty, but I have a few comments:

--I often put 'Random' before my RVs. Meh.

--

@Ranmaru: Her response to Eli's question was povercompensating and so was her "random" votes. THe fact that she is Plum's younger sister unfortunately must hold no weight with me.

Why was the response to Elli overcompensating?

And the fact that Plum's my older sister is entirely irrelevant to the game; why even mention it? I find that scummy.

[[Low Key]]

Why was the response to Elli overcompensating?

It was a scum hunting probe. Your reaction was not from a pro-town mindset; it was more defensive and appears as an attempt to discourage it rather than allow it to go forward to see what reactions are garnered. This is bad.

And the fact that Plum's my older sister is entirely irrelevant to the game; why even mention it? I find that scummy.

Its more of a bit of trivia and a joke than anything else. I don't see any scum motivation for it at all.

Link Request

Please link to us at least two games where, as town, you have used the stated "random voting" in RVS.

---

I need to hear from:

RC, Kunkstar, Ameliaslay

Also,

FoS Smalls

for

RVS-ing up a thread filled with content

with a "who/why me?" attitude.

[[Low Key]]

In fact,

Unvote Pom, Vote Smalls

[Ranmaru]

@Imaginality: (I will call you Imag for short in the future)

• Right, it is part of the RVS to try to bring discussion. Although, here's one thing that conflicts with this. It's called the RANDOM VOTE STAGE. So, some people say "Oh well, I'm Voting Randomly in the Random Vote Stage" And say that's there reason. This sort of becomes a theory debate.
  
• The idea of RVS is to vote people in a jokish manner, to promote discussion. Right? But, even if that person just randomly votes, he is promoting discussion (POSSIBLY) by attracting attention from others calling them out on that.
  
• Obviously it doesn't seem over cautious to me because oh look, Pom is getting attention. Of course, I don't believe it is pro-town either, because you aren't really getting reactions from the people she voted. Maybe it'd be a good idea to ask the two people she voted to give thoughts on that.
  
• Hmmm, you have a good point there, and I like it. I'll keep that in mind. (Applying pressure to a null tell to progress further with discussion, although I feel this is also a null tell because scum can do the same, so it goes either way )
  
• I agree with this. His question contradicts the purpose of him questioning in the first place. (Because he included an answer to his own question)
  
• Do you find that scummy? I don't find that particularly scummy, it just seems he read into it a bit too far when asking it. I find this to be null. (Because I have done this before, but it was more bad play and not knowing what to ask or how to ask questions)

[Crazy]

UNVOTE: Ranmaru

My reason for suspecting him was mainly what I saw as a clash of meta, but that's gone now, so meh. He's fine for now.

VOTE: smallpeoples343

Small, why didn't you mention anything that happened in the thread, at all? Was your vote for Pom related to the wagon already on him?

[Crazy]

My other vote will go towards imaginality/Ellibereth at some point, unless they can convince me that the question "Who knew Furry?" actually did have some potently awesome scum-hunting power behind it.

[Ellibereth]

My psychic powers tell me that one of the scum played with or modded Furry before.
And I'm sad at the people who didn't answer question...

vote: small

[petroleumjelly]

Day One: Vote Count #4

5 Crazy (Ranmaru, imaginality, [Low Key], Amrun, Ellibereth)
4 smallpeoples343 (iamausername, [Low Key], Crazy, Ellibereth)
3 imaginality (Pomegranate, Hiraki, Empking)
3 Pomegranate (Empking, imaginality, smallpeoples343)
2 [Low Key] (Ranmaru, WeyounsLastClone)
2 iamausername (Hiraki, smallpeoples343)
1 Amrun (WeyounsLastClone)
1 Hiraki (Pomegranate)
1 RedCoyote (iamausername)
1 WeyounsLastClone (Amrun)

With

15

alive, it takes

8

to lynch. Deadline is July 15 at 4:00 PM PDT.

Not Voting – 3 – Ameliaslay, kunkstar7, RedCoyote

[petroleumjelly]

Mod Note: In my infinite wisdom, I am redacting the rule on lowered lynching thresholds at deadline. It will now take a full majority to lynch at all times. This is not the effect of any roles -- just a decision I have made now that I have seen the multiple-votes mechanic in action.

I have made the necessary strikeouts to Rule #6.

[[Low Key]]

Looking at who is inactive at this point, my town read on Iam grows.

[Ranmaru]

Why exactly?

[[Low Key]]

Is that all you have to say?

[Ranmaru]

Meaning, why are you worried about his activity? (And not others, since it's only been a day) If he doesn't post, then he get's replaced. (within the limit of the rules)