Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Green Crayons]

Well that's neat. I hit submit. In the middle of things.

[Green Crayons]

So my vote on BM is split up into three parts: (1) my initial vote, (2) my continued vote, and (3) my current vote. Please note that this has been literally the same vote in that it has not moved. Each part is split based on the reasons behind the vote being put on (or maintained) BM.

(1) My Initial Vote

My initial vote came after my shift away from voting Magua. I originally voted Magua early on without explanation. My cause for this vote was because he made a bad joke. No, honestly. I think telling bad jokes is scummy because its a conscious attempt to make yourself look relaxed. I removed my vote because of the mix-up about Magua's "claim." Actually, in making this review I see that I shunted Magua off into the "comfortable with not lynching" category. I find that this categorization is actually baseless and I feel neutral about him at this point (absent a full review of the thread).

Anyways. I shifted my vote to BM because he was the next person to have done exactly the same as Magua. Bad jokes are scummy. That was sufficient for a page two vote.

(2) My Continued Vote

After switching my vote, my attention was focused on the more lively topics of discussion. Camn's requested name claim, Incog's meta reads, Pine's defensive posting, etc. I left my vote on BM because through this all he was failing to post but had already shown that he was aware the game had started. There was a four day gap between BM's last post before my vote and first post after my vote. During this time (about five pages) I was content with merely discussing the topics without need of moving my vote. The first indication of the cause (at the time) for my vote was not until right after the mod mentioned prodding, but I had already typed up my own bolded prod when I saw the Mod's prod notice. I purposefully left my vote not fully explained (though probably easily discernible) because I was curious as to what BM's reaction would be when he finally returned.

(3) My Current Vote

I have described my current vote as "meh." This is not because I don't think it's a worthwhile vote, but because it has more to do with gut than "reason." Maybe "reason" if we want to qualify it as me using whatever bullshit I remember from Psychology 101. So mostly gut about what I feel is a suspect play.


First is his rapid succession posting. There's the four back-to-back posts upon his return on June 14th. A double post on June 15. A triple post on June 16th. A triple post on June 16th. And then a double post on June 20th. This only lists those posts which were made almost back-to-back, but there were several postings (June 16th-17th, particularly) made within the same general time period.

So why is this suspicious? Because it looks like to me he's attempting to throw whatever his initial thoughts are about a situation without giving it much thought. Apart from being potentially unhelpful to the town, this also helps alleviates the detriment of being scum: worrying about what signals your posting gives off. His posts come across as a stream of consciousness flow of thoughts. This style circumvents the process by which a scum slips up (by over-thinking a situation or being caught lurking). It's worth noting that he's actively acknowledged that the "laying low" playstyle is when he's scum, so the fact that it appears that he's consciously taken the exact opposite tact (instead of something less extreme) is suspicious. It's like his posting style is screaming "I'M NOT SCUM GUYS."


Second are his gestures to show that he's comfortable with people looking at him with an eye of suspicion. This would give the air of him having nothing to hide and thus is an affectation of being town. There's his throwaway line about reading the scum quicktopic. Then there is his asking another player to PBPA him (as opposed to questioning me -- but that's addressed below). This is suspicious because it appears to be a constructed effort to look town by appearing calm about being put under suspicion. If this sounds akin to my initial reason for voting him, then that is because I believe the underlying reason is closely related if not altogether the same.


Third is his willingness to delay explanations.
- Seen with his Pere vote, which he puts off explaining and as far as I can tell failed to ever give a reason. There was no cause to delay this reason, especially when it was asked for, and he managed to get a free pass at voting someone.
- He also threw out there that he disagreed about scum tactics but said he wouldn't explain until Day 3 if he was alive and anyone cared to ask. This specifically looks like a smug scum who thinks by D3 they might be in the win (at least after a D3 town-lynch) so he's planting it to gloat later on.


Fourth is his buddying up with me. I'm leery of anyone who finds me to be so town on D1 that I feel like they're trying to really let me know of how town they think I am. Or who is this buddy-buddy with me. Examples of his buddying include:
- He addresses my vote with a friendly joke.
- He called the one player who found me suspicious on her own (as opposed to Yos finding me suspicious as a defense) scum.
- He says that he likes me.
- Also in this post he states that another player - Lain - should get in my "good books" without any seeming rhyme or reason.
- Also in this post he makes the gesture of requesting Lain to do a PBPA on him instead of me. Blatant attempt at "shielding" me from Lain's suspicion.
- He doesn't buy people hating on me.
- Also in this post he's nitpicking the person suspecting me.
- He's also throwing me softballs to support his vote against someone who I already find suspicious (Yos).


----


And that's why I'm voting BM and support a BM lynch. I have briefly skimmed over the posts since Friday or whatever I posted last. At all times I was more than slightly intoxicated so I can't comment upon the past three or so days' worth of conversation. But I'm saving that for later because it's already past my bed time.

[Medicated Lain]

Posting to say that I am here. I will view some of the cases again tonight or tomorrow.. headed out soon, so no time right now.
@green crayons: So you sincerely believe that taking a shot in the dark just because the majority of the people in town are controlling it? The idea that I am saying is that with 100% no solid information on the town side, plus a mafia which is generally three people.. that's a little less than 25% of the town... Versus less than 8% per single player. The likely-hood that the mafia could control the direction that the votes are going in is much higher than any other day.

[Battle Mage]

GC- Skimming through this, i suppose i have to ask, is this a bad joke? We wait days for some proper explanation for your vote on me, and all you have provided is an elaboration of the same defunct reasoning you've already offered. Full marks for consistency though!

So my vote on BM is split up into three parts: (1) my initial vote, (2) my continued vote, and (3) my current vote. Please note that this has been literally the same vote in that it has not moved. Each part is split based on the reasons behind the vote being put on (or maintained) BM.

(1) My Initial Vote

My initial vote came after my shift away from voting Magua. I originally voted Magua early on without explanation. My cause for this vote was because he made a bad joke. No, honestly. I think telling bad jokes is scummy because its a conscious attempt to make yourself look relaxed. I removed my vote because of the mix-up about Magua's "claim." Actually, in making this review I see that I shunted Magua off into the "comfortable with not lynching" category. I find that this categorization is actually baseless and I feel neutral about him at this point (absent a full review of the thread).

Anyways. I shifted my vote to BM because he was the next person to have done exactly the same as Magua. Bad jokes are scummy. That was sufficient for a page two vote.

Honey, I suggest before you make a tenuous declaration of a universal scumtell you read a few of my games. Jokes are a personality trait synonymous with me (the guy behind the computer) having fun. I'm awfully sorry if your robot mind can't handle the idea that sometimes we act in game like we do in real life. Anyway, go ahead and meta me, or even just ask Haylen.

(2) My Continued Vote

After switching my vote, my attention was focused on the more lively topics of discussion. Camn's requested name claim, Incog's meta reads, Pine's defensive posting, etc. I left my vote on BM because through this all he was failing to post but had already shown that he was aware the game had started. There was a four day gap between BM's last post before my vote and first post after my vote. During this time (about five pages) I was content with merely discussing the topics without need of moving my vote. The first indication of the cause (at the time) for my vote was not until right after the mod mentioned prodding, but I had already typed up my own bolded prod when I saw the Mod's prod notice. I purposefully left my vote not fully explained (though probably easily discernible) because I was curious as to what BM's reaction would be when he finally returned.

Darling, I was busy over that time, and didnt visit the site.

scumpal

Haylen can vouch for the fact i was trying to sort out a team for saturday.
What implications do you think this has for you, in light of your recent lurking? I'd love to see something that suggests you haven't just picked my name out of a hat and decided to tunnelvision me.

(3) My Current Vote

I have described my current vote as "meh." This is not because I don't think it's a worthwhile vote, but because it has more to do with gut than "reason." Maybe "reason" if we want to qualify it as me using whatever bullshit I remember from Psychology 101. So mostly gut about what I feel is a suspect play.


First is his rapid succession posting. There's the four back-to-back posts upon his return on June 14th. A double post on June 15. A triple post on June 16th. A triple post on June 16th. And then a double post on June 20th. This only lists those posts which were made almost back-to-back, but there were several postings (June 16th-17th, particularly) made within the same general time period.

Baby, when i am on the site, i reply to everything that i feel is of relevance. Not something i'd expect somebody of your participation level to understand. Again, meta.

So why is this suspicious? Because it looks like to me he's attempting to throw whatever his initial thoughts are about a situation without giving it much thought. Apart from being potentially unhelpful to the town, this also helps alleviates the detriment of being scum: worrying about what signals your posting gives off. His posts come across as a stream of consciousness flow of thoughts.

I'm afraid again, that's just me. I'd argue that a stream of conciousness posting style is more protown because it isn't calculated or premeditated; i post exactly what is on my mind. That said, i'm sure i've posted in the same way as scum before, but you could probably discern an element of caution.

It's worth noting that he's actively acknowledged that the "laying low" playstyle is when he's scum, so the fact that it appears that he's consciously taken the exact opposite tact (instead of something less extreme) is suspicious. It's like his posting style is screaming "I'M NOT SCUM GUYS."

LOL. I called your bluff and clicked the link, and the above point is a complete lie. Maybe the reason my posting style is screamig "i'm not scum" is because "i'm not scum" haha.

Second are his gestures to show that he's comfortable with people looking at him with an eye of suspicion. This would give the air of him having nothing to hide and thus is an affectation of being town. There's his throwaway line about reading the scum quicktopic. Then there is his asking another player to PBPA him (as opposed to questioning me -- but that's addressed below). This is suspicious because it appears to be a constructed effort to look town by appearing calm about being put under suspicion. If this sounds akin to my initial reason for voting him, then that is because I believe the underlying reason is closely related if not altogether the same.

If your entire basis of finding scum is to look for protown traits, then i assume you also feel those who act the scummiest are probably town? Intriguing.

Third is his willingness to delay explanations.
- Seen with his Pere vote, which he puts off explaining and as far as I can tell failed to ever give a reason. There was no cause to delay this reason, especially when it was asked for, and he managed to get a free pass at voting someone.
- He also threw out there that he disagreed about scum tactics but said he wouldn't explain until Day 3 if he was alive and anyone cared to ask. This specifically looks like a smug scum who thinks by D3 they might be in the win (at least after a D3 town-lynch) so he's planting it to gloat later on.

*shakes head* lol

[quote="Green Crayons]
Fourth is his buddying up with me. I'm leery of anyone who finds me to be so town on D1 that I feel like they're trying to really let me know of how town they think I am. Or who is this buddy-buddy with me. Examples of his buddying include:
- He addresses my vote with a friendly joke.
- He called the one player who found me suspicious on her own (as opposed to Yos finding me suspicious as a defense) scum.
- He says that he likes me.
- Also in this post he states that another player - Lain - should get in my "good books" without any seeming rhyme or reason.
- Also in this post he makes the gesture of requesting Lain to do a PBPA on him instead of me. Blatant attempt at "shielding" me from Lain's suspicion.
- He doesn't buy people hating on me.
- Also in this post he's nitpicking the person suspecting me.
- He's also throwing me softballs to support his vote against someone who I already find suspicious (Yos).[/quote]

What reaction did you expect to a vote with no real substance? Come back to bed now baby, we got some making up to do.

I don't consider the above to be valid reasoning for a vote, and somewhat resent the fact i wasted my time replying when you havent put any time or effort into this game. I'm sure you've written similarly long pieces on everyone ofc....

At all times I was more than slightly intoxicated

Dont worry, we had noticed.

Interested to see what other people think of GC's latest post.

BM

[bvoigt]

Most of those points about Battle Mage are pretty "meh" to me. However, I think the thing about never explaining his Peregrine vote is a good catch. And BM just kind of laughs it off without actually addressing the real point. Why

did

you originally vote Peregrine?

[InflatablePie]

Prodding TripMyWire.

[Yosarian2]

Interested to see what other people think of GC's latest post.

I think he devoted a pretty spectacular amount of time to a pretty thin case. I mean, he must have spent about an hour and a half trying to find all those links and typing that whole post up, and what his case boils down to is "BM joked, and then he didn't post for a few days, and then he posted a lot."

What his post most reminds me of is when I have a strong gut read on someone as scum, and then try to figure out why that is and try to communicate it to the rest of the town by pretty much taking every one of their posts apart. Honestly, I see that post coming more from GC town then from GC scum; if he was scum, GC is a strong enough player to be able to could fake a better case then that.

[Yosarian2]

On another note, Haylen makes some really good points about PeregrineV. The sitting on the fense with Camn, while the only positive thing PeV he had to say about Camn was the activity does look pretty scummy, and calling Haylen town while still voting for her is worse.

Vote:PeregrineV

[Battle Mage]

Most of those points about Battle Mage are pretty "meh" to me. However, I think the thing about never explaining his Peregrine vote is a good catch. And BM just kind of laughs it off without actually addressing the real point. Why

did

you originally vote Peregrine?

yeah, i cant remember lol. i assume it was just something i read at the time which wasn't particularly substantial. I don't think it's a "good catch" because what motivation would scum have for voting somebody without attempting to give a reason? They aren't going to run through to a lynch that way, it only undermines the wagon, and if a lynch does occur, it would inevitably get picked up. I suppose if Peregrine flips scum, you could cling to the scenario that i was trying to divert suspicion from my buddy...and onto myself? lol

I'm glad we've injected a bit of realism back into this game. Yos, if you're right that GC is a decent player, then don't you think as town he would have found it easier to retreat from a vote when he realised it wasn't grounded in reason, rather than feeling the need to go to significant lengths justifying it, at the expense of any genuine enquiry. I dont think that rings true of experienced town. I dont think it rings true of experienced

anything

.

I'm happy to string up PeregrineV now, and we'll re-open this discussion tomorrow.

Vote: PeregrineV

BM

[Haylen]

I would be unhappy with a lynch right now, and it surprises me that BM would be considering we have barely heard from Fugitive yet (Hi Fugitive!) and we've got over a week until deadline

[bvoigt]

I believe PeregrineV is at L-1 right now. I'm happy with this lynch, but would like to hear from Fugitive first.

[Magua]

I'm happy with a Peregrine lynch. Especially with his "Magua's post on me is a misrep," my response, and his complete and total lack of a counter-response.

Maintain my camn and Green Crayon townreads. On the fence about the Incognito/Battle Mage back-and-forth; my gut is that it's not genuine on either of their parts, but that's a pretty paranoid theory that I'm willing to shelve for now and revisit D2.

Haylen seems townier now than in the beginning of the game.

Pine is probably town, but not as strong as Haylen.

Glad that MehPlusRawr replaced out.

Everyone else is still relatively null for me.

Peregrine should get to claiming now.

[PeregrineV]

OK, I'll do this in separate posts that way I can stop if I get hammered.

First off, my voters and their "reasons".
Magua - Not explaining my Pine reads and thier reasons to his satisfaction
Camn - Voted me here, because BattleMage voted me here for this reason
Bvoigt - A contradiction & "Plus, a quick ISO reveals that he's hardly done any scumhunting."
Incognito- "Peregrine put little to no thought behind his post 184 when he produced his three scumreads", but somehow, in the same post, the reason has changed in response to my post.
Yosarian2 - Agrees with Haylen, but more on this later, too. (Note: Haylen is not currently voting me)
BattleMage - No reason-"yeah, i cant remember lol. i assume it was just something i read at the time which wasn't particularly substantial.". But hey does that matter? "because what motivation would scum have for voting somebody without attempting to give a reason?"

[PeregrineV]

The Magua Incident.
I can't decide if he's aggressive scum or "Pants-on-Head" town. So here's the summary from Magua.

@Magua- You got my read at each point in time. Do you want to discuss why you agree/disagree? It would seem to make sense. Otherwise, reads change. A lot.
And you know it.

For the last motherfucking time, the question I've been asking you is

why did your read change

.

I mean, goddamn, at least four times now I've asked that question: #188, #190, #193, #204.

At this point, I don't really expect you to answer the question, and so you can go die.

My answer:
Magua 183:

Still want to lynch Pine

, but not as much as I want to lynch Peregrine.
Pine 195: "There were no posts on the 16th (or 15th, I think) whose timestamp ended in :02, Magua. The time Peregrine is arbitrary and perhaps sarcastic, indicating (to me) that Pere doesn't have a good response. Possible 'scumslip'."
Pine 212:"I'm V/LA, camn, how much detailed activity do you want from me? I get home Tuesday evening. You'll see a big up-tick in activity then. Also, you seem to define "pro-Town" as "doesn't suspect me". Not an encouraging attitude, though I'm starting to see you as less likely to be scum despite it."
Pine 213:"What open questions for me do you have? It's very hard to go archive-spelunking from my phone. Your moronic "dare" doesn't count."
Pine 272: "I landed in Syracuse safe and sound, just figured y'all should know. Content coming tomorrow. This game is second on my list of priorities.Gah. Midwestern accent is even creeping into my typing."
Magua 286: "Haylen seems townier now than in the beginning of the game.

Pine is probably town, but not as strong as Haylen

."

To summarize: The same reason you did.

[PeregrineV]

So Camn never really has a reason (but, hey, who needs one really, to lynch a townie, amiright?), but keeps the vote after her shepherd Battle unvotes me next post.

In seems the crux of any reason is that I do not think scum gives up their teammates day1 on purpose with any great frequency. I think it's very rare. And someone posted a link (with no mafia QT to look at) in which Battle apparently engineers bussing a teammate day1, but I haven't reveiwed the 250 posts to see if the teammate was aware and in on the plan.

Regardless, a theory argument is a piss-poor reason, especially since I'm not scum.

So, great

no reason

Camn!

[PeregrineV]

Bvoigt's reason is not great, but it's actually one I understand. It was a contradiction, (even though I changed my mind about my read), and I hadn't been doing much scumhunting when he posted his vote.

[camn]

Dont be snarky with me!

My reason is you are full of it!
You replaced into a game where I bussed my partner Day 1.
Then you tried to semantics your way out of the contradiction.
Now snark.

All this = you are scum.

[PeregrineV]

@Camn- lol

[snark]
When Acronach said FUCK YOU after the game, and you apologized for the bus, then you did not plan it nor was it done intentionally.
If it was, why apologize? And why would he be pissed?
[/snark]

[Haylen]

It was done intentionally by camn, though, she just didn't discuss it with Acronach prior to bussing him. Like BM and I didn't when we bussed Super Smashbro Something in that game I linked to.

[PeregrineV]

Gotta go to lunch, more fun when I get back.

If I'm hammered before then, I'm

Luigi Largo, Vanilla Townie

the smartest and toughest

If not, brief preview:
Incognito- not great vote
Yosarian- Suspicious from one post to my vote post
Battle- "Got no reason, but scum don't need no reason."

@Haylen- I don't mind agreeing to disagree. I think players may kill teammates on purpose, but voting doesn't kill, so voting doesn't count as purposeful bussing. And I have yet to see a mafia team strategy that says "Hey, bus me for town points. Here is how we'll do it...."

[Pine]

Pine is probably town, but not as strong as Haylen.

Peregrine kind of pointed this out already, but it immediately went up as a red flag to me too.

This is a major reversal on your part, and I cannot recall ever seeing reasoning on where I went from one of your top three scum picks to one of your top two Town picks.

----

In other news, I way overslept today. I blame jet lag. This thread is my second or third priority, but I'm going to have to do a full re-read, as there have been days while on vacation where skimming was the best I could do.

PE: As scummy as Pere is (and always is to me) that's a fairly major character, if I'm reading this cast page right (I've never seen the show). I'm inclined to believe the name claim is legit, though it now occurs to me that I cannot speak to role or alignment. Someone who's seen the show, please. I suppose it is important for me to go watch it or something, so I can use flavor to assist.

[Pine]

I just read a plot summary, and it seems to me that the Mafia could be drawn from two different factions.

They could be Rotti Largo and his two children that are scheming to take control of GeneCo (Luigi and Pavi), or it could be nameless Repo men against the Town.

Admittedly, I still haven't seen the show, and my interpretation (or the summary's) may be flawed, but Luigi sounds like an antagonist.

[Magua]

To summarize: The same reason you did.

No. My reason for voting you isn't that you changed your stance on Pine. It's that when I asked you *why* you changed your read, you didn't answer. And you didn't answer. And you didn't answer. And you didn't answer. And when I bolded "why did your read change", you....didn't answer.

@Pine:

Do you honestly believe that scum do not have fakeclaims? Either Luigi is his real claim, or it's his mod-provided fakeclaim. Pondering on whether the name claim is real or not at this point is pointless.

[Pine]

I'm watching a copy of Repo! now. I'll be able to comment better on flavor after I've seen it.

[camn]

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!.

Er...even if you did hit scum Day 1, it could still be bussing. Couldn't you examine posts closely without my guarantee of voting with you?

Why bother bussing day1? Actually, why bother bussing at all? I've only ever seen it happen accidently- never by design.

Scum never bus? Not much! *cries with laughter*
BM

@Battle- I'll be happy to read any links to recent (past 2 months) normal type games where scum bussed on purpose, esp. day 1.

OK, then.
Explain the above exchange to me.
It seems to me like you were telling bvoit that if you were on a scumlynch.. then you were auto-town. Is this incorrect?
Then, when BM laghs.. you seem to really stick by this. My interpretation that you were actually, in reality, trying to setup auto-townpoints by hitting scum day 1.

Since this is the strategy that i JUST RODE TO VICTORY in our last game.. it seems to me like the idea of "accidentally" is a red herring.
Even if NOONE in the history of scum ever bussed on purpose.. after our last game ANYONE in that game would think it was a good idea. Including you.
I can see you pulling an intentional bus THIS game, then falling back onto the above exchange to try and be 'confirmed.

Obv it wont work now (in fact it never would have), but I posit that that was your plan.