DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[AlmasterGM]

[Day 2, DEFCON 2 - Vote Count II - There's No "I" In Team]

"All war is deception." --Sun Tzu

[Votes]

AurorusVox

(10) - inHimshallibe, ooba, HezLucky, Toogeloo, Screaming Death Clan, Swift Justice, SocioPath, ToastyToast, Katsuki, Revenge of the Wei

danakillsu

(0)

Gammagooey

(0)

gorilla

(1) - Lady Lambdadelta

HezLucky

(1) - danakillsu

Hinduragi

(0)

inHimshallibe

(0)

Internet Stranger

(1) - Gammagooey

Katsuki

(0)

Lady Lambdadelta

(0)

Magister Ludi

(0)

MagnaofIllusion

(0)

Magua

(0)

Mina

(0)

ooba

(0)

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)

Regfan

(0)

Revenge of the Wei

(1) - Internet Stranger

Screaming Death Clan

(0)

SocioPath

(2) - MagnaofIllusion, AurorusVox

Swift Justice

(0)

ToastyToast

(0)

Toogeloo

(0)

Not voting

(8) - gorilla, Hinduragi, Katsuki, Magister Ludi, PookyTheMagicalBear, Regfan, Magua, Mina

[Activity]

The deadline is Sunday, 3 July at 23:59 EST. Twelve votes are required to lynch.
No prods currently needed.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

1) "Why Me" is one of my personal twitches in mafia. Please explain your motivation in asking this.

2) SpyreX dying seems like something that a Gorilla!SK might do to frame HezLucky, and eliminate someone who wanted him dead. Spyrex's suspicion of Gorilla was quiet enough that if Gorilla!SK killed him it might have gone unnoticed.

I did it because I know it sets people off - my choice of phrasing was intended to be sort of tongue in cheek, but I really did want to know SpyreX's reasons because I didn't have a solid read on him, thought he might be scum.

If I had intended to fr

I don't really care if I end up getting nuked tomorrow, though, since I'm kind of useless.

I don't get the AV wagon, I need to reread.

Wat? You're using "lol reaction testing" as your excuse?

Can we please hang this guy? Please~~~?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Gorilla

Do you not want to be useless? DO you want to be an American hero?

Do you have a nuke?

pls answer yes to all of the above.

@GammaGoey

Nuking God is both Godless and UnAmerican. You will die for your treasonous thoughtcrimes in the fiery pits of hell

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Lady

what do you think of AV?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Lady

what do you think of AV?

I think AV's play has been pretty bad, but I don't like the speed at which his wagon grew, nor do I feel comfortable with his lynch right now. I feel like he might be town that is being beaten up, bullied and taken advantage of by European Forces (much like RC was).

I support a Gorilla lynch above any AV lynch at this point.

[Gammagooey]

@Pooky-It can't be godless, or it would be shooting a nuke into space for no reason. Which is very clearly American.

Also while we're talking, who are the socialists who have most and least cleverly hidden themselves amongst the American people? Or if you'd like it rephrased who's your strongest scum read and what read do you disagree with the majority of the town about most. (and if AV is strongest who's the second strongest since he's staring into death)

[AurorusVox]

Hey, GG. I'm at L-2. 'Sup?

The longer GG continues to stay off my wagon despite saying he'd be on it, the scummier he becomes.

Unlike Gorilla, I'm not useless, and should not be lynched today.
I have pledged my allegiance to the American people and will do all in my power to destroy those European pansy-ass lily-livered coward-bitch-suckling bastards.

[AurorusVox]

Rundown of the latest post:

GG claims scum.
LLD and IS continue to be town.
Dana proves she's town.
SP WIFOM claims SK.
Pooky remains null.
Does Katsuki still have a secret towntell?
Reg edges townwards.
CSL increases the chances of RoW as scum (CSL obviously isn't the WK'ing kind)
Gorilla asks to be lynched today.

[ooba]

AV needs to die .. It is known ..

[AurorusVox]

/sigh

Ooba, top scumreads outside of myself?

[Hinduragi]

Point me at this, because I don't see it. I see you saying that AV isn't playing like AV-scum did in DEFCON 2, and that you have a town read. But I see nothing about the wagon or the people voting AV.

I don't see any well-reasoned case where AV's scum besides pre-game comments that were labeled scummy. You could've labeled my CI and Fail Safe comments scummy pre-game but that doesn't change the fact I'm American. Also, I would think behavioral-meta outweighs an actual meta-case in regards to reasoning in cases. Moreover, I think maybe one person on the AV wagon even commented about it. Noone on the AV wagon tried to disprove it or anything. Usually, if someone's called town, then you'd think people calling him scum would argue the point.

Did everyone just ignore what I had to say about Gorilla?

I read it. I thought you were scum for it, too. But then, I asked myself a question. Are scum going to be this obvious and easy to jump onto? Are they REALLY going to have the guts to even try and fake-analyze their own NK? I didn't see it. Even if they proposed it in the QT as a gambit, I don't see scummates agreeing to it. Ever. Anyways, NK speculation on framing or just done for lulz of wifom is something to leave for our wild imaginations. I don't think I could ever base a D2 vote off of the gorilla case.

I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.

If you agree, you think Gorilla's definite scum. If you can explain why you think others are scummier and why you suspect them, that would help.

I don't normally use tells in mafia, but this is one I have found to be fairly solid

Links?

Anyone here who has experience with Regfan who can tell me if lurking is a tell for the guy?

I'm really not sure. I recently replaced into a game he was town in. I didn't live very long in it so my view might be biased. He was pretty active and consistent in his posting walls compared to this game.

Especially considering my view of Spy, those that know OF me, and those that know OF my playstyle, and those that know me, and those that know my playstyle, and those that think that they really know both me and my playstyle, people should realize that I certainly wouldn't kill Spy, of all people.

Socio's right. If he killed Spyrex, I will shit bricks. He could still be scum, sure. Is he scum? I could only read him if he came under fire, really. Most likely a good idea for a nuke.

AV needs to die .. It is known ..

I want to know what AV did between Defcon 3 and 2 that earned your vote.

I'm still pretty sure AV's town. I'd like to hope that I can read someone I've known better than everyone here.

I'm comfortable with a dana lynch. CSL needs to provide reasoning. I'd like to hear from that side of the hydra rather than Vi.

Looked into ML. I think he's probably town. ISO 18 was apparently the only thing that ticked with me.

Vote: Dana

[AurorusVox]

I saw it. I agree. Other people are scummier.

If you agree, you think Gorilla's definite scum. If you can explain why you think others are scummier and why you suspect them, that would help.

Actually this is a really good point, but I think there's something more interesting at stake here. LLD proposes that Gorilla is the SK, and Toasty agrees...Killing the SK reduces NKs by one. So, Toasty, why aren't you voting Gorilla? Do you prefer the cool comfort of having nine other people on the wagon with you, to keep you under the radar a little more?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Also, what was I supposed to say? "Let's not make SCUM waste a nuke."? You're literally pointing out that I didn't scumslip (which I can't do, because I'm not scum) and saying that it makes me scum. Please just die.

Straw-man of the original argument.

You effectively said “Let’s not have Town waste a Nuke on scummy Hez and lynch him instead”.

You’ve been challenged to show how Town nuking scum Hez (your read) would be a waste.

Do you not agree it would confirm them as non-Euro for Nuking Euro Hez ? Of course this doesn’t factor in the Terrorist angle but for discussion purposes I’d like to see your answer.

--

I did it because I know it sets people off - my choice of phrasing was intended to be sort of tongue in cheek, but I really did want to know SpyreX's reasons because I didn't have a solid read on him, thought he might be scum.

If I had intended to fr

I don't really care if I end up getting nuked tomorrow, though, since I'm kind of useless.

I don't get the AV wagon, I need to reread.

Oh my god, this is scumtastic in multiple ways.

I’m sorry I doubted your scum-tell LLD.

--

AV’s

926

is a quite careful constructed Appeal to Emotion.

People still don't understand the Sub thing. It just made the Sub into a regular nuke. Well, it made Sub the same as Silo or a scumclaim.

People don’t understand it because as you presented it was scumtastic.

Town holding the Sub can still operate it as a Silo with no Town downside (firing Nukes in public) while denying scum the possibility of ANY hidden shots. I don’t care how quickly it might be found out …. even one hidden shot is bad for Town. Thus even thinking that giving over the Sub to scum has any Town upside is suspect.

Now you're backing off of it. If you want to lynch me, lynch me. None of this "I'll probably change later" bull. Either IS is scummier than me and you should try to get him lynched rather than half-heartedly poking in my direction and throwing a vote in his direction; or I'm scummier than him and so why are you voting IS?

You do understand that –

1. Ending the Day in approximately 24 hours before everyone had posts is pheonomnally Anti-Town regardless of how quickly those trigger happy among us want to get to DEFCON 1, even with a scum lynch.
2. There are 6 scum in the game so pressuring another suspect while allowing Town adequate discussion time is Pro-Town.

correct?

--

Especially considering my view of Spy, those that know OF me, and those that know OF my playstyle, and those that know me, and those that know my playstyle, and those that think that they really know both me and my playstyle, people should realize that I certainly wouldn't kill Spy, of all people.

Yum, a pointless self-meta WIFOM sandwich!

You so need either to be roped or glow in the dark.

--

TOO MUCH STUFF
TOO LITTLE TIME

VOTE: AV

Don’t fucking erode my Town read on you Kats with this sort of crap.

--

yo dana

u trying to protect your boy AV?

Was it common in 2003 for scum to stupidly stick their neck out when their partners were 95% assured to be the lynch for the day and say “Hey, they aren’t scum”?

And what do you think of Hiraki, Gorilla and the others explicitly calling AV Town?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Forgot this -

@Magister Ludi -

if you hold a Nuke do you still intend to use it on DEFCON 1 on the player with the least amount of posts at Day's start?

[inHimshallibe]

Forgot this -

@Magister Ludi -

if you hold a Nuke do you still intend to use it on DEFCON 1 on the player with the least amount of posts at Day's start?

(Regfan)

[AurorusVox]

MoI: GG is scum trying to stay off my wagon because he knows I'll be going down as a mislynch and he can now point back to how he didn't really support the wagon but kinda was with town on it even though they were wrong, and all sorts of bullcrap like that. Now you're going to parade his indecisive cowardliness as pro-town? Please. I know he's your buddy but come on. He essentially said "well I can't be bothered to go against all the people that say AV is scum" which to me implies that he he knows I'm town, but doesn't want to disagree with everyone else, but still wants to seem like he had an inkling about me not being scum. It's all sorts of constructed for back-peddling and not taking responsibility.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MoI: GG is scum trying to stay off my wagon because he knows I'll be going down as a mislynch and he can now point back to how he didn't really support the wagon but kinda was with town on it even though they were wrong, and all sorts of bullcrap like that. Now you're going to parade his indecisive cowardliness as pro-town? Please. I know he's your buddy but come on. He essentially said "well I can't be bothered to go against all the people that say AV is scum" which to me implies that he he knows I'm town, but doesn't want to disagree with everyone else, but still wants to seem like he had an inkling about me not being scum. It's all sorts of constructed for back-peddling and not taking responsibility.

1. Are you voting for GG? Then your attack on him calling you scum but not voting you is hypocritical.
2. How do you expect anyone to get Town cred for saying “AV needs to die because too many of my Town reads think he is Scum”? Seriously the first place to look if you were to be lynched and flip Town would be those people who steadfastly claimed you were Town or people who backed off like GG after it became the solidly dominant wagon. Absolutely for sure (in that theoretical scenario) there is scum in those pools.
3. Answer the following questions –

A. Is it Anti-Town to end the day before everyone can post even with a scum lynch?
B. Is it scummy to push on additional scum suspects while another is being strongly wagonned?

[AurorusVox]

1. I'm voting for who I think is the SK. GG is different.
2. Well duh. That's why I'm on his ass. I know I'm town so that's why I'm pushing him on it.
3. (A) Yes, but he wouldn't have been ending the day. I was at L-4 - which he explicitly knew - when he was talking about voting me. Also, he

would

have voted me had I been at L-2. His reason for backing off wasn't that I was "too close" to getting lynched, it was that I wasn't close enough. So your (a) point is completely backwards.
(B) No, but I don't believe I'm a scum suspect of his, so what he's doing isn't quite what you're suggesting here anyway (I have stated multiple times now that I believe he knows I'm town). But even if it was the case that he thought we were both scum, there is NO reason he couldn't have voted for me and continued to push IS with questions etc. As it is, he isn't even pressuring me at all, he's simply vaguely proposed to vote me and then voted IS instead.

[Toogeloo]

Everyone else is just going to ignore it?

Unvote;
Vote: Gorilla

He wants to die so bad, let him. That post reeked of AoE and Martyrdom.

[danakillsu]

Dana proves

she's

town.

*facepalm*

I'm comfortable with a dana lynch.

Nice reasoning, bro.

Straw-man of the original argument.

You effectively said “Let’s not have Town waste a Nuke on scummy Hez and lynch him instead”.

You’ve been challenged to show how Town nuking scum Hez (your read) would be a waste.

Do you not agree it would confirm them as non-Euro for Nuking Euro Hez ? Of course this doesn’t factor in the Terrorist angle but for discussion purposes I’d like to see your answer.

If this is what he meant, he should have said so. IF we don't lynch Hez, nuking him wouldn't be a waste of a nuke as opposed to nuking someone else, but from the perspective of right now, when it's still possible to LYNCH Hez, it would waste a town nuke NOT to do so, because town would have to nuke him instead of someone else to get him dead. Understand now?
It would pretty much confirm them, yeah.

[ooba]

AV needs to die .. It is known ..

I want to know what AV did between Defcon 3 and 2 that earned your vote.

It's the same thing I said at Defcon 3 ..

RC is town
AV is scum
{Hindu, IS}, {SpyreX}, {AV} - would put MoI down as no.5 ..

Unvote. Vote: AV

The speed of the wagon switch from AV->RC made it clear that people were happy to leave the AV wagon ..

[AurorusVox]

With RC's townflip, that just means that those players thought they could get an RC mislynch and save my demise for today. Don't let the Eurotrash get away with this!

[HezLucky]

This is beyond ridiculous. We were trying to lynch AV yesterday and then people got sidetracked --- most likely scum led the sidetracking.

Now we are so close to lynching AV and then PEOPLE ARE STILL GETTING SIDETRACKED. Why hasn't AV been lynched yet? ARGH!

[AurorusVox]

MoI: Now tell me why you're not on Hez' ass for wanting to end the day so quick, but you'll question my pressure on GG?

[Gammagooey]

@AV-

Everyone can get here and say a few things

, AV can claim, and AV can die. I'd also go for a few other lynches (IS in particular I'd like dead more, dana I'd be okay with dying too) but the difference between them and AV isn't strong enough to ignore the amount of likely town that think AV is scum.

Mina and Regfan still haven't shown up. I like words, and if I vote you now then Pooky will probably just powerhammer you.