Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Albert B. Rampage]

How is Porochaz still alive?

Better question: How is Albert B. Rampage still alive?

@Albert B. Rampage - Did you shoot Yosarian2 or Internet Stranger? (You promised one or the other).

Vote: Toon Fighter

He should be wagoned and we should get a claim to find out if his survivalist attitude is warranted.

IS

[Albert B. Rampage]

His reads were terrible from top to bottom I figured he was scum or a thorn

[Zindaras]

The Keymaker claim is not very believable to me. He is such a minor character in the series, and there are so many vanilla townies. Maybe it's just me, but there are so many other characters in the Matrix I would include before The Keymaker. And how does that character's flavor translate to a one-shot protection?

Like I said, all the hallmarks of a scumclaim. Incredibly minor character in a game with so many townies, a role that can't be checked (and is a role that scum gets a lot anyway, probably more often than town) and a role that doesn't really make sense given the flavour (the movie is quite clear on the Keymaker not being bulletproof.

His reads were terrible from top to bottom I figured he was scum or a thorn

I'm glad. At least

someone

is happy with the way you're playing.

It does make me wonder who killed Yosarian. Albert announced Yosarian as one of his likely targets, so it doesn't really seem a constructive kill for scum, as you have significant odds of double-killing.

[Primate]

Vote Toonfighter

[Medicated Lain]

Alright, I went over Toon Fighter and Sens a bit more in depth. There were a few things that stood out to me, especially considering Brian's list of stuff on Hez/TF. Reconsidering some things.

Points -
Hez and Sens were very openly fighting against each other in logic. #1087 of Sens's is literally entirely calling Hez out on crap logic and lack of content, they confronted each other several times.
Hez pointed to TF many times, but TF never even tried to respond. Thinking about this, and looking through TF's posts... TF has done veeeery little to defend himself this game.
-in contrast, Sens has been very strong in defense on himself, and I think presented a really good case of defense.
-Toonfighter has in some way or another said something directly about his role three times in this game now:

Claiming that you want to survive as a personal goal is anti-town in my eyes, IF you are a town player, you should contribute to town winning, not to your survival. Also, the winning condition you say you have is worded differently than mine, care to elaborate on that? FoS: vezok. You are losing the town points I gave you earlier, and I am starting to think we should policy lynch you as an anti-town player

LF: I am a pro-town program, I am not a miller

I should prob claim now. I am the Keymaker.

TF: The latter two flow together more, but as for the first, why would you assume that someone with a different role from you, has all the details the same as you? I had assumed at that time, that you were claiming townie.

TF again: You were near death yesterday, but honestly didn't do that much to defend yourself. Why does it make sense to allow people to vote for you so much? Also, you pointed out Poro and Sens as possible

Sensfan: who in this game looks like scum to you right now?

I am heavily inclined to believe that one of Sens or TF is Hez's scum buddy. Looking at the interactions between Sens an Hez though, I don't think scum would be that willing to attack each other head on. It seems more likely that the interaction between Hez and TF is that of scum partners, and between the two of them, I am leaning more at TF.. What do others think?
Judging by our night kills, I assume we probably have about 6 anti town roles alive right now.
The best that i can do on reads are:
Hez is likely buddies with either Sens or TF.
I am also inclined to believe that probably one of Zindaras or Brian is scum, because they think the most similar to me in this game, and a group of three people all thinking about the same thoughts, kind of points me leaning towards one of them being scum.
Dramonic, Deathnote, Bristep123, Cogito Ergo Scum, Primate, Kublaikhan.
These are people whose names I have not seen a lot of through this game, and I always find such players the most suspicious. I am inclined to believe that 2-4 of our scum are hanging out in here. ARB: If you want to make yourself useful tonight, you should be killing off these folk.
Of them, I didn't like AGar(dramonic's) actions the first day, but I guess I kind of got over that, looking over another time. Deathnote and Ranmaru's exchange was certainly strange, and Deathnote is highest on my list here, mainly because of the Llama incident and that exchange with Ranmaru. I think I will be more specific on this one next post.
Kison has given me bad vibes all game, but I need to ISO again. Ranmaru is a big question mark to me.

I guess basically no one looks cleared to me at this point.. but my biggest reads at the moment are TF or Sens, Deathnote, and Kison. Next post I will look more at Kison, and if I have a chance, I'll try to look over Deathnote more closely.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Zindaras: I don't make the roles, it's not my fault the mod decided to give the keymaker a 1-shot BP protection -.- Also, he said the roles in this game could be different from the ones in the movie.

I am gonna go for my biggest scumread so far, so I

vote: SensFan

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote Count #23:

Humph. Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion, simultaneously the source of your greatest strength, and your greatest weakness - The Architect

Toon Fighter - 7 (DeathNote, Kison, Zindaras, Cogito Ergo Sum, Kublai Khan, Ranmaru, Primate)

bristep123 - 1 (SensFan)
SensFan - 1 (Toon Fighter)

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch. The Day 3 deadline is Thursday, June 30th, 12:01 AM CST

Searching for a replacement for bristep123

[Zindaras]

Unvote

I want to wait until after everyone can be more active (especially bristep's replacement) before lynching Toony.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Why isn't ToonFighter dead yet?

[Toon Fighter]

Because I'm not scum

[Ranmaru]

What exactly are you bullet proof to? Just kills, or actions? (Before I post any other thoughts, getting to you all soon)

[Toon Fighter]

I am bulletproof to kills and any action on me will fail

[Primate]

You forgot the part of your role that lets you kill people at night.

[Kublai Khan]

I am bulletproof to kills and any action on me will fail

[Old British narration voice]Like a caterpillar who emerges from his cocoon a full fledged butterfly, here we witness a wild Toon Fighter shedding his old bulletproof claim for a new sleeker, sexier Aesthetic claim.[/Old British narration voice]

[Toon Fighter]

Oh yeah, Primate, I forgot that part!

I'm an Unlynchable Bulletproof Miller Vig. Also, doublevoter and JOAT. (jk)

[Kublai Khan]

Oh yeah, Primate, I forgot that part!

I'm an Unlynchable Bulletproof Miller Vig. Also, doublevoter and JOAT. (jk)

[Old British narration voice]Faced with it's natural enemy, the predatory angry mob, the Toon Fighter delivers a lackluster defense based on comic trickery. This does little to prevent the hunt from coming to it's inevitable conclusion.[/Old British narration voice]

[Ranmaru]

Day Two began May 25th. LlamaFluff didn't even mention Death Note until his

policy lynch

post on June 08. Between the start of Day Two and that post, he voted:

-

Toon Fighter

-

GummyBear

-

Toon Fighter(again)

-

Porochaz

He then proceeds to claim a guilty result and retracts it shortly after. If that is his idea of bread crumbing a guilty result, it's quite terrible. It made no sense at the time and makes even less sense now.

He also said he had a message for Kison as a Cult recruiter, but thought it was fake. In my eyes, Llama may have tried to get out of the way first, and go on for DN afterwards. I have to admit now, it doesn't make too much sense that he did have a guilty on DN. Reading Ranmaru's post,

I am also inclined to believe he may have had a 'machine' on me

or a innocent on RC. For that reason, and as I re-think Llama's play, I shall

unvote

.

The Keymaker has a 1-shot BP protection.

If you are 1 shot bp, how could Llama POSSIBLY had a machine result from your pov?

[Ranmaru]

@

Zindy

: I didn’t want to deflect from the RC wagon, especially near deadline. I didn’t really point out Sensfan much at that time, and I only spoke about him twice when asked about who would have possibly been mafia upon RC’s town flip. I feel sensfan is trying to sideline. Anyways, near deadline, I came in to post to answer RC’s questions, as to why I was staying on him. I feel most everyone was lurking and not just a few people, so it feels like a null tell. (Except for some cases like Sensfan, who doesn’t contribute much at all) I was also busy focusing on the events that happened near deadline, such as Llama’s push for Death note, his guilty gambit, etc, so it wasn't like I wasn't doing anything. I wouldn't have voted off of RC just because of others, I wasn't turning back. I was totally fine with RC’s lynch. Again, I understand that you or others may have hard times catching up in a large game, but he did it within two days near deadline. He had MUCH MUCH MORE time than that. He had plenty of time. Example, people were asking for support to move else where, but I didn’t want to move my vote, I left it on. I did find the Surye hammer suspicious too, and I also didn’t like that he didn’t give much reads and instead kept insisting he’d start reading after playing Portal 2. I have had difficult times (Mini 1146) but these were because of Stress due to college and exams. NOT PORTAL 2. I usually play videogames, but I haven’t played those in a while. I do admit that ‘getting into the game’ is hard and takes effortful processing, but I did it within 4 days (because I replaced into three places at once).

Also, I also thought an RC lynch would be good to draw hard stances, instead of just weak stances on easy prey like Surye, TF, Vezo etc. It was a good wagon to be on information wise. Yes TF seems the realistic choice to me too. His claim doesn’t line up with Llama’s possible investigation on him.

@

Kison

: I was going to say that having 0% town motive would make him null instead of scummy. You point something out though, he seems to go with whatever leads to him being cleared. First, DN was suspect to him because Llama obv invistagated him. Then I give a whole post, stating that DN is a crazy gambit thing, and that it was between TF and RC. TF then agrees and thinks RC was now Llama’s target. Never mind, he said he believed either him or RC was a possible scan.

@

Brian

: You state that the keymaker claim isn’t believable to you. How is your reasoning for disbelieving it legit? Isn’t the key maker like some weak dude who needs protection? I saw the Matrix a long time ago but I don’t exactly remember. What does so many vt’s have to do with a minor character though?
You say you should have picked up on it earlier, why do you think you didn’t? Does this mean you noticed it, but hesitated or something?

Btw, looking back at your reads:

Porochaz - Seems good.

Medicated Lain - Good townposting.

You had two town reads without much explanation. Can you explain both of these further?

I see Kison/Primate/KK with a short link but the links lead to reasoning as well so those are fine.


Wait, has KK ever done what Kison said?

Also hypocritical is your stance on lurkers. You called Bamboomancer (my predecessor) scum for lurking and not providing content, but you're defending ReaperCharlie to the hilt.

Lurking and lack of content was not the issue with Bamboomancer. Given time, it was fairly obvious he had flaked. The issue I took was his second post, which commented on many things and took no firm stand on anything.

You're the only one that has complained about it. Plus you've made two posts complaining about my lack of reads which is hypocritical considering how close you're keeping your cards to your chest as well.

Lack of reads has never been an issue.

Now that you have had an opportunity to witness reactions, feel free to point out what makes him read as scum to you.

Has KK done this yet?

Toonfighter's an ok wagon.

BMQ I went into reading with a mindset of thinking he was scummy but actually he comes across ok. Similar situation reading Hez.

FOS Kison, ML, Poro

Can you explain your second line here, Primate?

Why isn't ToonFighter dead yet?

Look at the quote below v

Unvote

I want to wait until after everyone can be more active (especially bristep's replacement) before lynching Toony.

Good idea.

[Ranmaru]

@Sensfan: I see you online. Comments? Reads?

[Porochaz]

Hi guys running a fever and graduating tomorrow means Im more than likely going to be V/LA until sunday.

[Primate]

Can you explain your second line here, Primate?

Had a read on them as scummy but was uncomfortable with it because I felt I hadn't spent enough time ensuring it's accuracy. Reread them and I changed my mind a little.

HezRead not my finest moment.

[dramonic]

did TF just claim action-immune? =_=

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Who cares? Dude's scum.

[Kublai Khan]

Now that you have had an opportunity to witness reactions, feel free to point out what makes him read as scum to you.

Has KK done this yet?

In my defense, I'm very lazy atm.

Surely Cognito Ergo Sum's 4 words of genius (#1947 sums up everything that needs to be said about Toon Fighter.

[BrianMcQueso]

@Brian: You state that the keymaker claim isn’t believable to you. How is your reasoning for disbelieving it legit? Isn’t the key maker like some weak dude who needs protection? I saw the Matrix a long time ago but I don’t exactly remember.

What does so many vt’s have to do with a minor character though?

The more nameless vanilla townies in this game, the fewer named power roles there will be. If you're designing a Matrix game, then clearly Neo, Morpheus and Trinity are your first three power roles. If you add another power role to the game at that point, do you make it The Keymaker? Probably not, there are many other, better characters to include. Maybe it's just my negative opinion of The Keymaker character, but I would consider including The Oracle, The Architect, Link, Niobe, Seraph, Dozer, Cypher, Switch, Tank, Ghost or Seraph before I included The Keymaker. Sure, if you had a game with 8-10 power roles, you could find room for The Keymaker, but I don't think we have that many power roles in this game.

Also, The Keymaker was a very weak character that needed to be protected and eventually died. Does that sound like a role that would be able to stop kills against himself?

You say you should have picked up on it earlier, why do you think you didn’t? Does this mean you noticed it, but hesitated or something?

I wrote off the "Are you a miller?" question as a trap used to frighten scum. Either that or Llama had a result and was about to reveal it. I glazed over the "pro-town program" part of the question, but in retrospect that was a very unusually specific qualifier to include because there's no mention of pro-town programs at any point before that, even in the mod rules.

You had two town reads [Lain, Porochaz] without much explanation. Can you explain both of these further?

Medicated Lain: Lain analyzes wagons, defends her reasoning, calls people on their crap, doesn't tunnel, is willing to switch her vote but also justifies it instead of blind hopping, and all in all seems like a town hunting scum.

Porochaz: Poro isn't so much "Townly" in my eyes as he is "Not Scummy". He's a bit aggressive, but his logic seems sound, on the whole. I don't like his attitude but I tend to agree with what he's saying.

Honestly, it's easier to find concrete reasons why someone is scum rather than why someone isn't scum.

---

Does anyone have a reason that ToonFighter should be lynched? I think I'm the only one that's been against his lynch at any point and even I'm willing to string him up at this point. I'm holding off the lynch for more discussion, but it doesn't seem like there's any being had. TF doesn't even seem to be defending himself, which is peculiar. If I was at L-2, I'd spend more time defending myself than scumhunting other players, and I'm sure most of you would too.