Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[PeregrineV]

Well, as I said to Green, [Pine]'s a null alignment wise.

As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Magua- You probably just got mixed up in your mind. Otherwise, that would be serious hardcore misrepresentation posting my second post before my first post. I think you wanted to show:

@bvoigt- last two posts mainly. Although will continue to expect more.

As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Battle- Welcome to town, were we don't know and have to guess/figure it out, and are in the dark until the mod makes the deathpost. Is it different for you?

P-edit: See, now Magua posted something. I'll post first then read it.

And then this:

@Magua- Before I answer that, I'm curious as to why your so insistent on it.

My insistence on getting an answer is directly related to your insistence on you not giving me an answer.

Well, as I said to Green, he's a null alignment wise

.

Which was refering this paragraph:

@Green- Pine is a hyper aggressive tunneling player who takes offense easily. While that has no bearing on his alignment, it does affect how he plays. Since I am somewhat put off by that playstyle, he usually trips scummy for me from the start. But, rationally and logically, no bearing on alignment. So, right now he's a straight null read alignment wise.
Camn I've only played one game with. So I base anything now on her actions. She's active, she's coherent, she's not belligerent. I like the playstyle. However, no bearing on alignment..etc. So, instead of thinking town like I want to, I have her as a null also.
And the interactions between the two of them haven't changed my opinions above, it's mostly how I arrived at them.

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- Sorry, my subscription to Mafiascum Monthly expired and I missed the headline about BattleMage's triumphant return to the game.
You may pick any game in the last 2 years, ok?

@Camn-
My quote:

@Battle- I'll be happy to read any links to recent (past 2 months) normal type games where scum

bussed on purpose, esp. day 1

.

Relevant posts from the link you posted that shows it was not

on purpose

.
Acronach's Post 307: anger about the bus.
Camn's Post 308: the apology for the bus.

and of course it was never discussed as a strategy in the QT.

Unvote.
Vote: Magua

Because now I feel like the misrep was on purpose.

[Incognito]

Why is it that you would suspect such a high level of play from him, yet have no such expectations from Haylen?

Ummmm... posting when you're supposed to (i.e. when the mod opens up the damn game thread) is considered a "high level of play??" Wow.

Assuming that's what you mean there, then, uh, I guess it just has to do with what I know Haylen for (see my last post in response to BM's hate). I don't know Trip, but I think I did incorrectly assume that he was much more than a newbie since I only looked at his join date rather than looking into past games of his or anything along those lines.

I don't have the Incognito hate, but I wouldn't shed tears at an Incognito lynch.

Uh why?

Ok ok, I've finally decided I'm gonna do one more post after this one so that it won't be one huge text wall.

[Incognito]

After reading the last few pages, I think Peregrine looks particularly bad; it's pretty obvious that Peregrine put little to no thought behind his post 184 when he produced his three scumreads:

As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

Man, you're not even

trying.

Let's turn up the heat.

unvote, vote: PeregrineV

Preview edit: Peregrine, I don't think the ordering matters there. You pretty clearly said that Pine was one of your three scumreads and then later in response to GC you listed Pine as completely null alignment-wise. It just doesn't look sincere. Explain in some detail what you were thinking when you posted those reads, please.

Other thoughts: Haylen continues to look like scum. Yosarian2's latest posting looks really town. bvoigt still looks town. And... drum roll please: I could see Green Crayons as scum, but he told me to be gentle in the queue. Damnit.

I don't know what to think of Battle Mage yet or Medicated Lain, but I expect that to change.

[PeregrineV]

@Incognito- You're right, order doesn't matter. That's why posts are numbered and appear in numerical order.

Let's turn up the HEEEEAAAAT!
BM

Let's turn up the heat.

Is this a scum secret battle cry?


PeregrineV (4): Magua, bvoigt, Camn, Incognito

And can all my fans please post the link to their "cases", or present them concisely, if they want a response.

If you don't want a response, or don't have a case, then why are you voting me again?

[bvoigt]

@Peregrine: I don't see how that's a misrep at all. First you said Pine was a scum read, and then you said he was null.

[Battle Mage]

I think I'm just about caught up again.

BM, if I understand your case against me, you're basically saying that my attack on Haylen looks contrived because you think Haylen hadn't put forth much in the way of content to be considered "stable" and not "all over the place." If that's the case then I disagree with you; the Haylen that I know would be doing all kinds of silly stuff on the first few pages like claiming to be an octupusduckgoosehenchicken with laser beams shooting out of its ass and NOT producing actual reads like she did in say, her post 96. That's the kind of thing I'm noticing when I say she seems stable so far.

Separate post to follow.

That's part of it. And i dont consider your explanation valid because there are any number of reasons (NB: Some of these might be available in thread if u look hard enough) why she might not be posting as much as normal, or with the same attitude. I think personality is a far greater factor in Haylen-posting than meta of previous games, in part for the reason you've addressed. The other issue i had, was that your logic of her not being attacked was defunct.

And can all my fans please post the link to their "cases", or present them concisely, if they want a response.

If you don't want a response, or don't have a case, then why are you voting me again?

I don't particularly want a response, and the only reason im not voting you, is because im not done with the day yet. But why would i want a response? You are essentially already dead.

Your point about Incog copying my wording is a good one though. It isn't a PR; he just has bold aspirations. Leave the poor guy alone!

@Incog - I'm not sure i agree where Yos is concerned. His recent posting has been...well...exactly what it needed to be. I dont find is particularly revealing either way, but in terms of participation it is acceptable. Likewise, you shouldnt flinch from GC suspicion. The fact is, his next post is going to have to be very good to get him out of the ditch he has dug himself. He can't lurk forever. According to your Iso, it seems you're somewhat obsessed with this pregame chat with GC. Why do you think you've found it difficult to assimilate with this game?

BM

[Battle Mage]

I would be interested in knowing why Crayons would not mind a hayl lynch

I bet you would.

@Battle- Sorry, my subscription to Mafiascum Monthly expired and I missed the headline about BattleMage's triumphant return to the game.
You may pick any game in the last 2 years, ok?

You should renew that subscription pal.

I was going to suggest we list our suspects in order or something, but have changed my mind, as tomorrow could go in many different directions. It's pretty exciting!

I'll cast my vote in a bit.

BM

[Magua]

Peregrine, here's my case. Feel free to show the misrep.

#133: You say that Pine is effectively a nullread.

#184: You say that Pine is a scumread.

Back-and-forth between you and me ensues as I ask what happened that made you move Pine from nullread to scumread. Rather than explain, you are simply obstinate.

#225: You say Pine is a nullread.

[camn]

Mine is: You are quibbling the semantics of "ON PURPOSE"?
I cartainly didn't but our partner

by accident

in that game!

[PeregrineV]

And can all my fans please post the link to their "cases", or present them concisely, if they want a response.

If you don't want a response, or don't have a case, then why are you voting me again?

I don't particularly want a response, and the only reason im not voting you, is because im not done with the day yet. But why would i want a response? You are essentially already dead.

Please explain how this is something that town would do.

@Magua- You got my read at each point in time. Do you want to discuss why you agree/disagree? It would seem to make sense. Otherwise, reads change. A lot.
And you know it.

@Camn- Yes, that is the purpose of words. That's why I said "on purpose". That's why I didn't say "on accident".

[Magua]

@Magua- You got my read at each point in time. Do you want to discuss why you agree/disagree? It would seem to make sense. Otherwise, reads change. A lot.
And you know it.

For the last motherfucking time, the question I've been asking you is

why did your read change

.

I mean, goddamn, at least four times now I've asked that question: #188, #190, #193, #204.

At this point, I don't really expect you to answer the question, and so you can go die.

[MehPlusRawr]

Sigh. I just can't follow this game well enough, and I think someone else would probably enjoy playing more.

Mod: Replacing out.

[bvoigt]

@Camn- Yes, that is the purpose of words. That's why I said "on purpose". That's why I didn't say "on accident".

Relevant posts from the link you posted that shows it was not

on purpose

.

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- I'll be happy to read any links to recent (past 2 months) normal type games where scum bussed on purpose, esp. day 1.

Relevant posts from the link you posted that shows it was not

on purpose

.

Mine is: You are quibbling the semantics of "ON PURPOSE"?
I cartainly didn't but our partner

by accident

in that game!

@Camn- Yes, that is the purpose of words. That's why I said "on purpose". That's why I didn't say "on accident".

[camn]

I dont even know what we are talking about anymore.

I think the essence of Battle's point was: SCUM BUS. they even BUS DAY 1.

[Yosarian2]

PeregrineV; This is a horrible theory argument you're trying to make here. If you're trying to say "scum never bus on day 1", then you're wrong. If you're trying to say something else, I have no idea what that is.

Anyway, any chance you can drop the stupid theory debate and actually start scumhunting, pere?

[Incognito]

Peregrine, what I'm trying to say is the order in which you said those two things about Pine doesn't matter in this case. It just doesn't make sense for you to list Pine as a "scumread" and then later on call him completely null alignment-wise when the guy didn't really do anything in between. For me, that shows a lack of sincerity on your part which is scummy.

And I didn't actually copy BM's wording; I hadn't even realized he used the exact same phrase when I typed it out myself.

Why do you think you've found it difficult to assimilate with this game?

I'm very well assimilated with this game. I was joking just now when I mentioned that thing about trying to be gentle on GC. The thing that's bugging me about him in this game is I don't really feel like he's come out and out-and-out attacked anyone just yet like I would expect him to as town. He seems to be asking a lot of questions and stuff, but I'm kind of waiting for this mega-awesome case that a GC-town probably would've made by now, and he just hasn't done that.

[Incognito]

Not really sure what to make of MehPlusRawr's replacing out - I'd say it's a slight scum-tell if anything. I'm interested in seeing the thoughts of whoever it is that replaces in (looks like Fugitive if the replacement list is correct).


@Haylen and camn: You've both now said that you're "leaving each other alone for now." camn, you've explained why you're doing so but Haylen, why are you? And since you're saying that, does that mean you find camn scummy? If so, why?

[InflatablePie]

VC #6 - The Six-Foot-Six (Head And Shoulders) Votecount

PeregrineV (4): Magua, bvoigt, camn, Incognito
Incognito (1): TripMyWire
camn (1): Pine
Battle Mage (1): Green Crayons
TripMyWire (1): Yosarian2
Green Crayons (1): Medicated Lain
Magua (1): PeregrineV

Not Voting (3): MehPlusRawr, Haylen, Battle Mage

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to No Lynch.
Deadline is at 10 AM Eastern on July 1st.
Please notify me of any votecount mistakes.

~This VC has been edited to reflect the actual votes.~

Contacting Fugitive about replacing MPR.

[Haylen]

It means I don't have enough info at the present time to make a full conclusion as to how I feel about camn's alignment. I have a kinda leaning town on her but I'm keeping my eye on her just in case. Which probably makes no sense to anybody else.

MPR replacing out is a null tell. What makes you think it's a scumtell?

Peregrine needs to read this game. Myself and Battle Mage bussed our scumbuddy on Day One and got him lynched. I bussed BM later on in the game and went on the take the win. That game had me on the edge of my seat.

If that's the case then I disagree with you; the Haylen that I know would be doing all kinds of silly stuff on the first few pages like claiming to be an octupusduckgoosehenchicken with laser beams shooting out of its ass and NOT producing actual reads like she did

The claiming stupid things and general silliness was a form of scumhunting. I explained this in the scum quicktopic for ladies mafia and camn said something that made me think - yeh, it's not very good if the info gained from it isn't useful at that time. That and I'm half losing the will <("<)

Pine

* I agree that his "scumslip" looked a bit suspicious. Other people are suggesting it's a slip, however, that's not the reason I find it suspicious. I find it suspicious because the way in which Pine made phrased that sentence looked very cautious, like he was very aware that he couldn't say anything that would arouse suspicion without coming under scrutiny.

Scum Motivation

Scum, I would say, are much more cautious than town. In this circumstance, Pine looked like he was being very careful as to not confirm camn as town or scum in his response to her suggestion of a mass name claim.

Town Motivation

Any townie should have the balls to put down a well reasoned vote, if the player being voted flips town, then a townie shouldn't worry about trying to convince the rest of the town that they themselves are town. And thus it is the same case for writing what you want to say without fearing a backlash because they should trust the town to be able to tell if their responses are genuine if they do happen to come under scrutiny for what they have said. However, some of the newer players haven't quite gotten that into their heads yet.

Conclusion:

I am leaning towards this being of scum motivation because it just seems so much more likely than Pine not realising he can say what he likes as town as long as he can back it up.

Note for the stupid

Personal assaults? Didn't you call personal assault on someone else earlier?

Next time you play as Town, don't do something that staggeringly anti-Town, and people like me won't get an immediate scumread on you.

It's interesting that you would think this. I automatically thought that the suggestion of mass name claiming was an attempt at generating discussion.

Scum Motivation

Scum would automatically jump on something that somebody does and call it scummy without thinking of the actual motivations behind the original action because it allows them to look like they're analysing the game when in fact they are not.

Town Motivation

General misguidedness. Inability to analyse properly.

Conclusion:

Points more towards scum motivated to me because Pine has said at least once this game that he's a great player. A great player wouldn't make a mistake like this. But to me, it does look like he had jumped on camn rather than a newbie mistake.

Might have said this before, there's a difference between anti-town and scummy. It's beyond me why Pine would suggest otherwise. These are the definitions.

Pro-town - Helping the town do their shiz and catch scum.
Null - Unable to produce a proper read of a person.
Anti-town - Doing something that is not necessarily scum motivated but does not help the scum.
Scum - Helping the scum do their shiz and kill off the town.
Anti-game - Not being interested in the game ie lurking and then getting replaced, spamming ect.

Perhaps Pine is pushing for a lynch on someone he doesn't truly find scummy and is trying to cover it up with mis-definitions.

For the last fucking time, this one with no frills or equivocation:

Swearing in that fashion.

Scum Motivation

Pressure. When scum is under serious pressure, they tend to buckle and make statements such as this. Evidence for this could be

the fact that the only thing Pine has done for the last 90% of the game is defend himself.

Take special note of this, please.

Town Motivation

Occassionally, town can get so frustrated that they lose their usual cool exteriors and start shouting their mouths off.

Conclusion:

Hmm, I could buy town like because at that time in the game, Pine only had 2 votes. However, he could be someone that caves into pressure easily. I'm going to keep an eye on this and try to draw a logical conclusion later. Although, reading the rest of Pine's also, I could conclude that it's scum motivated because he just carried on with the bad attitude.

Overall Conclusion of Pine:

Scummy. May be happy with his lynch. Want to analyse others before making a decision though.

Peregrin

Starting to feel a little pulled out of RVS. Most well-presented meta case based on other games I've seen in a while.

Aaaand, he jumped on the meta argument without thinking that my meta had changed since then. It's the same point I made just now about people not thinking before they decide on something like this. I bet you anything that Peregrin didn't go and look at my most recent games and I don't get why neither him nor Incog asked about my change in chance on believing everything another player says.

Looks scum motivated.

@Mage- Camn is currently holding a place as "neither town nor scummy" in my list, but I do like the activity level, as it gives more info. And this tends to lean town to me (depending on what is said, and how it's said also, of course).

Classic case of fence sitting.

Scum Motivation

Scum like to fence sit because it allows them to go through an entire game looking as though they are reading the thread, scum hunting and providing content when in fact they are not. It allows them to avoid arousing suspicion on themselves. I find that this is especially the case when the scum in question is attempting to give a read on his scumbuddy.

Town Motivation

Might be telling the truth.

Conclusion:

I find this scum motivated because the only full on reason he gives for finding camn town or scum is her activity level. This doesn't sit well with me. You can't conclude your read on someone based on how often they're posting. For example, currently, I am trying to publish a book, hence my lower activity levels, I would be royally pissed if someone decided I was scum because of that.

@Battle- Today, right now, I would be against a lynching of me, Green Crayons, Incog, or Haylen.

Inconsistancy. He says that he would be against a lynch of me and yet at the time he says this, he is voting for me.

Scum Motivation

If I happened to be lynched, it would allow him to say that he didn't really suspect me even though he was voting me and on pseudo-band wagon. If done correctly, it could get him out of trouble big time in pseudo-tomorrow.

Town motivation

He might have genuinely forgotten to unvote me.

Conclusion:

Given that there was only three days between his voting me and his post saying he didn't want me lynched, I think the chances of it being town motivated are very small.

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!

I believe I gave my opinion on this before, but I'll do it again.

Scum Motivation

Scum would be likely to say this if they had plans for bussing their partners. I've seen it before, people lead lynches on their partners on day one and then on day two and then when they read lylo, they don't get lynched because they helped lynch the other scum and people thought it was pro-town. The fact that he is also making a big song and dance of people not bussing intentionally on Day One pings my scumdar excessively.

Town Motivation

I can't think of any.

Conclusion:

Would at this stage be happy with a Peregrine lynch too.

I'll do the rest in a bit. As people know, posting content is very painful for me but it does make me enjoy games more and feel more confident

Current Reads based on these analysis

MehPlusRawr -

Null

Pine -

Scummy

PeregrineV

Scummy

Green Crayons
bvoigt
Magua
Incognito
camn
Battle Mage
Medicated Lain
TripMyWire
Yosarian2

[Fugitive]

Hi everyone.

Just got my role PM now. I read the first 5 or so pages because I expected to play eventually, but got slack and haven't read the last 6. I'll read the rest tomorrow and make a substantial post.

Also, saw this movie like a year ago when Pie made me watch it, so I'm somewhat familiar with it but I don't remember a lot of details.

[Pine]

I landed in Syracuse safe and sound, just figured y'all should know. Content coming tomorrow. This game is second on my list of priorities.

Gah. Midwestern accent is even creeping into my typing.

[camn]

Thats was the towniest post I have ever seen from haylen.

[Green Crayons]

So my vote on BM is split up into three parts: (1) my initial vote, (2) my continued vote, and (3) my current vote. Please note that this has been literally the same vote in that it has not moved. Each part is split based on the reasons behind the vote being put on (or maintained) BM.

(1) My Initial Vote

My initial vote came after my shift away from voting Magua. I originally voted Magua early on without explanation. My cause for this vote was because he made a bad joke. No, honestly. I think telling bad jokes is scummy because its a conscious attempt to make yourself look relaxed. I removed my vote because of the mix-up about Magua's "claim." Actually, in making this review I see that I shunted Magua off into the "comfortable with not lynching" category. I find that this categorization is actually baseless and I feel neutral about him at this point (absent a full review of the thread).

Anyways. I shifted my vote to BM because he was the next person to have done exactly the same as Magua. Bad jokes are scummy. That was sufficient for a page two vote.

(2) My Continued Vote

After switching my vote, my attention was focused on the more lively topics of discussion. Camn's requested name claim, Incog's meta reads, Pine's defensive posting, etc. I left my vote on BM because through this all he was failing to post but had already shown that he was aware the game had started. There was a four day gap between BM's last post before my vote and first post after my vote. During this time (about five pages) I was content with merely discussing the topics without need of moving my vote. The first indication of the cause (at the time) for my vote was not until right after the mod mentioned prodding, but I had already typed up my own bolded prod when I saw the Mod's prod notice. I purposefully left my vote not fully explained (though probably easily discernible) because I was curious as to what BM's reaction would be when he finally returned.

(3) My Current Vote

I have described my current vote as "meh." This is not because I don't think it's a worthwhile vote, but because it has more to do with gut than "reason." Maybe "reason" if we want to qualify it as me using whatever bullshit I remember from Psychology 101. So mostly gut about what I feel is a suspect play style.

First is his rapid succession posting. There's the four back-to-back posts upon his return on June 14th. A double post on June 15. A triple post on June 16th. A triple post on June 16th. And then a double post on June 20th. This only lists those posts which were made almost back-to-back, as there were several postings (June 16th