DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[ToastyToast]

...this sounds nothing like the Toast I know. How many games have you played with AurorusVox, Toasty?

Sorry? I have not been in any completed games with AV, but I have followed quite a few.

I examined about 4 (2 town and 2 scum) games to see if this was really AV's scum meta

SpyreX death points a little TOO much to HezLucky, tbh. SpyreX wasn't like OMGSOTOWN.

[Gammagooey]

The kill was a terrorist kill, not a scumkill. So yeah it can be terrorist trying to put Hez in the spotlight or Hez could just BE the terrorist but it says absolutely nothing about whether Hez is european or not.

[ToastyToast]

The kill was a terrorist kill, not a scumkill. So yeah it can be terrorist trying to put Hez in the spotlight or Hez could just BE the terrorist but it says absolutely nothing about whether Hez is european or not.

Its the perfect WIFOM kill. Realized it was terrorist only after I posted that O.o

[ToastyToast]

@Gamma:

Not scum with Hez
AV SpyreX (he's actually leaning hard town but this category was lonely)

Do you still believe this? Why can't AV be scum with Hez?

[Internet Stranger]

Vi clearly wasnt killed because Vi is EuroScum. (ie: Night speculation is silly at this point).

I will agree that the flavor reads like the terrorist pulled off a kill and the Europeans are a bunch of shitbags that cant even get a kill right. They probably wasted the entire night discussing bullshit and trying to find some socialist way to make everything fair for everyone. I knew those European dog scumbags had no balls.

Speaking of someone with no balls, im voting for Vi anyways. Die scum, die!

Vote: Vi

[Gammagooey]

This is the big thing-

And I don't think that Hez and AV are scum together- This vote does not read like a bus vote:

I'm of the opinion that at least one of the people jockeying for the ability to lead town is scum.

I'll be watching SDC/IS/Pooky closely for this reason.

Agreed. One of them is using meta to their advantage.

Vote: AurorusVox

It reads like a "oh cool maybe I can not die today" vote.

If you're going to bus a scumpartner you try to look better doing it, not say oh one of these 3 people is scum but I'm going to vote this other dude instead.

[AurorusVox]

@IS, you realise the Euroscum haven't got the guts to kill anyone til tonight, right?

Didn't expect a disappearing act from RCTown at all.

Vote: HezLucky

[Gammagooey]

So I've got a few words typed up but I want to see if Hez shows up to play today first. Someone remind me about it after he posts.

[inHimshallibe]

vote: AurorusVox

[Swift Justice]

(Equinox)

Didn't expect a disappearing act from RCTown at all.

Scum post.

But I'm going to go play over here.

Vote: Vi

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(Equinox)

Didn't expect a disappearing act from RCTown at all.

Scum post.

But I'm going to go play over here.

Vote: Vi

So wait, let me get this straight.

You're calling AV scum, and you seem VERY confident about this.

But you're going to vote for someone else?

The only way this is acceptable is if you feel Vi is a stronger scum read for you than AV is. If so, I would expect a reason for this, as I do not think you have yet specified any real reason why you suspect Vi? If I am wrong, feel free to quote and correct me on this.

[ooba]

Vote: AurorusVox

[Swift Justice]

(Equinox)

You're calling AV scum, and

you seem VERY confident

about this.

wat

Miyo, you shouldn't be touching the liquids the professor is brewing. They're bad for you. Mmmmkay?

Also, yes, there is a reason I'm voting Vi over AurorusVox.

[Swift Justice]

(Equinox)

Something I'm thinking about here...

If there was only one scum faction, how would that change your read on SDC?

Does this look like a terrorist post to you lot? This was the post that had me yelling, "OMG SCUM!" for HezLucky because there's no reason to be looking at this game from the standpoint of a different setup unless HezLucky is already looking at the game from this point-of-view.

[AurorusVox]

It reads more like a fake attempt to ask a probing question to me. It's an utterly pointless question because there isn't only one scum faction, so it has zero relevance to anything. But by asking it Hez looks like he's doing something in the game. So I could read that as either terrorist or scum, tbqh.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

(Equinox)

You're calling AV scum, and

you seem VERY confident

about this.

wat

Miyo, you shouldn't be touching the liquids the professor is brewing. They're bad for you. Mmmmkay?

Also, yes, there is a reason I'm voting Vi over AurorusVox.

I... giggled. A lot. >.<

Um, your confidence was implied by the "this is a scum post" line. I took that to be confidence about the read.

If you would explain the reason for the Vi > AV, I would greatly appreciate that. If you want to keep it hidden, I'll respect that for now, but I DO expect you to explain at somepoint.

As for me, something has been bothering me for a little bit.

Vote: Gorilla

Leanin on Dead:
Gorilla

okay I'll bite

WHY ME

1) "Why Me" is one of my personal twitches in mafia. Please explain your motivation in asking this.

2) SpyreX dying seems like something that a Gorilla!SK might do to frame HezLucky, and eliminate someone who wanted him dead. Spyrex's suspicion of Gorilla was quiet enough that if Gorilla!SK killed him it might have gone unnoticed.

[danakillsu]

vote: HezLucky

If we don't lynch him, you know somebody's gonna be nuking him tomorrow, so...let's not make town waste a nuke. Let's get a scum ability out of the picture ASAP.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I actually am not comfortable with the amount of people who are willing to just pile onto Hez. Feels like the Europeans might be driving this.

I'm much more partial to a Gorilla lynch at this point.

[MagnaofIllusion]

VOTE: AV
--

That and I think his behavior as the game shifted from him to AurorusVox to RedCoyote might be very telling of his allegiances,

Now that RedCoyote has flipped Town please elaborate on your thoughts re: the above.

--

If we don't lynch him, you know somebody's gonna be nuking him tomorrow, so...let's not make town waste a nuke. Let's get a scum ability out of the picture ASAP.

Um if he’s scum how would him being Nuked at DEFCON be a “waste”?

--

Aha, Vi finally did put out the case on me equalling Scum.

*A lot of Moai's posts are useless - his "pregame" posts (the first four), the Air Base commentary, etc.

Noted. Your definition of useless and mine obviously vary.

*His attempt to attack Magister Ludi is bad. Here's his response to ML's plan to nuke the worst lurker

Skipped quote of my own …

Ignoring that ML is generally correct that scum are more likely to lurk and that both of us (me and ML) just got out of a game that proved it, and the tacked-on last line, let's apply some fair and balanced journalism here.

Well let’s examine ML’s plan

In DEFCON 3 ML has purposed a plan that says “I’m nuking the player with the least amount of posts first thing DEFCON 1”

Now please defend why that is a wonderful plan –

1. ML has said what he is doing which is based on a not based on content, day-play, or any other traditional determiners of alignment. And he’s more or less rigidly going to follow it (based on his posting so far). That’s not a very effective Town perspective, IMO.

For example, say Player Y has 45 posts and Player Z has 46. They are the two lowest post count players. Player Y’s ISO is filled with plenty of content in said posts. Player Z’s on the other hand has lots of spammy one-liners and little content that can be used to determine alignment. Under ML’s plan as presented he would be nuking Player Y who just has the raw minimum post count.

2. Whether you believe lurking is indicative of alignment strongly or not (and I don’t really care either way what you truthfully believe) giving scum a two DEFCON notification of this plan eliminates its effectiveness. Euroscum are just going to carefully pad their post-count to make sure they are not at the bottom. Perhaps you catch a Terrorist uncomfortable with playing a SK style role but I doubt it based on the playerlist.

In fact I'd guess you might find scum simply by looking at who is spamish-style posting when they do not normally do so, if ML is Town.

3. If ML’s plan goes awry (he ends up Nuking Town who had the lowest post-count) he can justify his action by saying “Hey, I was upfront about my actions, don’t blame me” in response to any pressure. It is very much a way to keep his hands ‘clean’ and looks to be successful given the number of people such as yourself who seem to think it’s Plano Fantastico

ML certainly isn’t a scum read of mine currently but that plan … it doesn’t smell of Sweet Town and Roses.

*I've asked him to back up his remark that there's a bandwagon of people who see me as scummy and asked him about who he wants to know my read on, and I haven't heard any response yet. Or would those answers get in the way of his rhetoric?

Asking me to defend a comment I never made isn’t something that’s valid scum-hunting. I mentioned there were others who found your play suspicious. Off the top of my head InternetStranger and the SwiftJustice seem to be two of them. I never claimed there was a “bandwagon of people” who found you scummy.

As for you asking about who you should elaborate on the fact that you didn’t just elaborate on your top suspect/(s) and instead played the “What should I do?” game further makes me confortable with my mild scum read on you.

*It's strange that he's saying I'm not doing anything to push my suspects, because that's pretty much what he's doing for most of his posts.

Generalist rhetoric for the win!!! And incorrect generic rhetoric at that.

*Moai #22 just reads horribly on an intuitive level. "He's acting like scum. He's not going to be lynched for it because other people like him. We should just nuke him." The message is fine - "SocioPath is going to act scummy, he's not going to get lynched, he's nukebait" - but the way it's phrased, particularly the "people aren't going to lynch him because he's SocioPath" seems either unusually bitter or like it's making excuses.

Oh, it’s horrible on an ‘intiutive level’. Noted.

Sociopath is scummy. He purposely acts that way and admits to doing so. He’s clearly in the ‘Nuke it DEFCON 1’ pile.

Do you find Sociopath scummy for his play? Looking at your list you place him ‘In Limbo. What does that mean exactly?

[Swift Justice]

(Equinox)

Now that RedCoyote has flipped Town please elaborate on your thoughts re: the above.

That line didn't have anything to do with RedCoyote himself. I was talking about HezLucky's behavior as the game momentum moved off him. I haven't actually done this yet, though; I'll do it when I'm less lazy.

[Toogeloo]

The only way this is acceptable is if you feel Vi is a stronger scum read for you than AV is. If so, I would expect a reason for this, as I do not think you have yet specified any real reason why you suspect Vi? If I am wrong, feel free to quote and correct me on this.

And this feels like a rolefish attempt...

We looking at a possible AV, Vi, LLD scumteam? I would not be surprised.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Rolefish attempt? Are you seeing things, Toog?

I was asking for a case on Vi from Swift Justice. They had barely mentioned him before hand, and I simply wanted to know why they were voting someone they hadn't expressed a strong scum read on, over someone who they just called out for "scum posting".

[HezLucky]

Okay time for my catchup.

Townread on Hinduragi #50.

Magister Ludi #55 is actually a really good post. Not sure how I missed this the first time around. But he's right.

Magua #70 is consistent with what his position on me later on -- he thinks "people are going to be much better with using their nukes
once they have their reads established". I'm thinking that if he had attacked me it would have been very hypocritical. He didn't.
Consistency is town.

Gamma's #99 and subsequent attacking of me is just idiotic.

Posts like Magua #101 are being really helpfulw ith town. However, I recall a recent game I read that I was not in where Magua was
really helpful as scum and used that to become the sole survivor (was this RC's game?). So I'm definitely not giving him anything
for that.

AurorusVox #104 - it might be best to let scum have sub, eh? Good for you, AV. To the scumpile you remain.

Seriuosly though Magua #107 ... his posts are SO GOOD and he's not leaving ANYTHING OUT. he's making it very difficult for scum. I
just can't possibly see Magua as anything but TOWN.


I've become so calm lately and then I read Spyrex #174 and I want to completely F#@$#@% NUKE HIM AGAIN. Okay, dude. I take policy
lynches REALLY PERSONALLY so lay off please.

Spyrex #183 also makes me very angry.

townread on Regfan #220. A lot of his post is speculation on what the mafia would do. I see two possibilities -- he's thinking this
through as a townie trying to use the mindset of mafia OR he's mafia and has already thought this through. Given the degree of
analysis (ie. not much, but enough ... suggesting he's come up with a few nuggets but isn't spouting the full-blown analysis of his
scumbuddies) I'm inclined to go with the former.

LLD #233 - but this does not make inhim scum. Sure as hell sounds like something I would do =D

AurorusVox #236 - fake analysis. ranking several power roles isn't going to make you likely to get anything except probably the first.

Mina #241 - the brackets are good analysis. very useful information for later. Swift Justice #244 helps to support a Mina-town read
for the moment.

HOWEVER I do have suspicion of Swift Justice from the bottom several posts on Page 10. He spends an awful lot of time clearing people
as town. I could see it as these people being town while Swift Justice-scum makes legitimate "reads" on them. Gets credibility for
being right, and uses it to his advantage later. I feel that a town player would make some scum reads as well, rather than just
randomly get in people's good books for calling them "town". Scumread.

Also don't like Swift Justice #257's FOS on Mina. It's a dumb reason to give someone a finger of suspicion.
...though it appears it was a joke. Hm.

dana is obv scum though. #259. so fake. so forced. so....scum!

Toasty #284: copout. Playstyle?

Gamma #307 - your defense of dana is noted.

Mina #308 is TOTALLY LEGIT. (read the attempted breaking strategy)
Alright. Anyone who hints at Mina being scum from here on out goes on my scumlist.

Mina #310 - why is Katsuki town? I have literally no read whatsoever at this point.

SpyreX #312 - at least he's not going around calling me scum. That would make him look really bad in my eyes.
On the other hand baesd on this post the probability of me nuking him has gone down a bit.
(now that I've, like, made proper reads and stuff)

MAGISTER LUDI #337 -- FUCK THIS IS BRILLIANT. I swear I thought of it first. At least, in my reread
because I don't remember this post. But it is EXCELLENT. TOWN! YOU AREN'T LETTING SWIFT JUSTICE HIDE.

seriously i want credit for this too.

And I don't like Swift Justice's reply. #347 especially.
(though, game aside, I agree meta-wise with #353. hate that)

SpyreX #355 is scum though, because I don't agree with his "Toasty you've got potential". I didn't see
much in Toasty #354 that suggested he was useful, or coming up with anything remotely groundbreaking.

Katsuki #357 (why am I asking you all the questions?) - MoI's scum-meta. Less contributions? Is that
how it works? I've played with Town-MOI who contributes a lot. A helluva lot.

and ugh you write things when you're angry sometimes, and reread them later, and just shake your
head. But AurorusVox #369 ices the cake as scum. The RAGEPOST comment is just "i'm going to bait you,
and then accuse you of something that's easy to do but since i've baited and questioned you it will
make it seem like i came to a conclusion rather than a blatant accusation"

Why the hell isn't AV being lynched?

...and yes, the rest of it was F#*$#$ BAITING. DIE SCUM DIE. OH MAN WHY ARE WE NOT LYNCHING
THIS DISGUSTING DIRTY SCUM?

...man I gotta stop reading my angry posts. They are making me angry.

Magua #394 is either scum or completely and utterly unable to read me. Will refrain judgement for now.

On the other hand I'm convinced Gamma actually does think I'm scum. #408. Town read. No nuke for you, gamma.

...yeah I don't nuke town. Sorry. My reputation would be shot if I did.

SOCIOPATH #416. WHAT DID I SAY ABOUT MINA? GUESS WHAT? THIS IS TOWN. BUT YOU, SOCIOPATH, ARE DEATH SCUM SCUM SCUM SCUM.

(Am I provoking an actual sociopath here? :S)

<3 IS #419. Nominate for Scummy "being generally awesome"

RedCoyote #424 -- 1) raises an excellent point about Magua that was probably worth bringing up. Townpoints to Magua.
2) Critique of Mina #36 is highly opportunistic. It's a very easy criticism to make (esp given that MINA IS REALLY TOWN YO
PLZ SCUMHUNT FOR REAL) [[[also a good chunk of this post is critiquing Mina . See above. Mina is obvobvobvtown and he's critiquing
opportunistic garbage]]]

Though RedCoyote #432 against AurorosVox makes me happy

What's with SDC's #463 reaction against MoI? o_O

AurorusVox #484 @Magna Part 2 is WIFOM -- Yes, it benefits town, but that doesn't mean scum won't take it for the exact same reasoning
you just mentioned. (though Magna #485 states exactly this)

Agree with Katsuki #489 (the pact dealy). SDC is town.

I don't understand ToastyToast #492's case on IS. At all. Is it a joke or real?

SocioPath distancing from RedCoyote #495. Not sure what to make of this given RC's flip.

Seriously, IS deserves a scummy for being entertaining. @498

I _STILL_ Agree with LLD's #508. One of SDC/IS/Pooky is likely scum. Unfortunately, I have no freakin clue which one.

I love MoI's posting. #514. I hated it in Open 302. In Open 302 he was town. IGMEOY MOI. (though I'm staying the hell away from
any actual accusations because I'm too scared to be wrong twice)

I like LLD #529. It's not only a pro-town statement to make, but the context and choice of words reads legitimate.

Pooky giving IS a run for his money in entertainment.

Mina #564 --- Mina is so obviously town it hurts me in places it would be inappropriate to mention. Especially the line about Vi
in this post. This is completely and utterly genuine scumhunting. Once again, anyone who suggests Mina is scum should probably be
nuked on sight.

However. Magua #567 -- I do not share his Toasty read.

AV #570 - no you were baiting. continually asking questions in an attempt to make me look worse.

AV #571 - This sounds like scum admitting town is town. (ie. AV admitting Toog is town)

SpyreX #574 --- AWWW <3 I won't nuke you promise. (then again I promiesd I would nuke you so YOU'RE TAKING A RISK SPYREX)

ooba #580 - why isn't ooba contributing more?

Regfan #586 - as much as Regfan is defending me he could definitely be scum from this post :S But this hinges on AV being scum
as well. Also, I don't claim to be able to read Regfan well. So null for now. His scumlist is fine but Regfan is able to legitimately
scumhunt while still being scum, as witnessed by my previous game with him.

Magua #595 is the most hilarious thing ever. My scumhunting is that bad, eh?

AurorusVox is SO SCUM OH MY GOSH PEOPLE WHO VOTED THE OTHER GUY NEED TO DIE NOW.

SpyreX #599 -- the word "protip" also makes me angry, fill with rage and nuke happy. I hope you're watching out for yourself, because
I may not be.

Okay fine Regfan #608 you are town happy? (the defense of me is just too solid)
...but then you vote for RedCoyote. ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Null read again. I want Regafn to be town I erally do but that
might cost me the game again.

Response to AV #609 ... when someone is mad, they don't care for "logic". You want to push someone who is mad and you will get a
response. What you do with that response determines YOUR scumminess, not mine. It's spelled B-A-I-T-I-N-G.

As said earlier Gamma is town because of #620 and the subsequent one where I am convinced he actually thinks I'm scum.

The irony is that I _still_, even in this reread, don't have a read on Magua (response to AV #623)

LLD #627 ... Going to let other people read Regfan. I want to believe he's town, because his defense of me seems legit, but meta tells
me to beware as he's very good scum.

SpyreX #646 glad you FINALLY admitted it was self-preservationist. what took you so long? (also IS #648 is WAYYYYYYY more chaotic
than me, fyi)

pooky #659 - people need to listen to posts like this. AV is a french whore, dammit!

---RC has flipped as of when I am at his catchup #676 so I obv won't be commenting just reading it---

However, now that we know RC is scum. Who started his crappy wagon? (being the person who was wagoned counter to AV before dana I
quite agreed with RC's logic. Let's see who didn't)

MoI and inhim? Well, MoI and I never see eye to eye... -_-

...Yeah sorry inhim. You're scum. #695 (and it's so unfortunate given that SEE MY SIGNATURE)

---holy crap I've got 6 pages to go and SpyreX is dead. holy crap will post in morning ---

*sigh* MoI #700 is just MoI's way of scumhunting. MoI looks for contradictions and inconsistencies, which are nice, yes, but that
doesn't always indicate someone is scum -_-

But I'm placing most of the blame of the RC wagon on inhim.

Agree with MoI #739 logic of nuking SocioPath.

Scumread on gorilla #759 - for fencesitting earlier on with Hezwavre. Also, for asking RC a leadign question (dude the answer is
obvious his reads changed) in order to justify his existence on the wagon.

...and Ludi is just really good at erading people. Ludi is twon town town.

Swift Justice #822 is interesting. It's too bad I have the opposite read you expect me to have ie. SJ scum LLD maybe-town so your
refusal to answer her questions makes you look TERRIBLE.

----it is now Day Two----

Gamma #855 --- the AV vote in that post is separate from my commentary on SDC/IS/Pooky. I was just not very good at making it obvious.

#863/#864 - I did not understand what MoI was saying. I asked for clarification. Any questions? Oh wait, both of you are scum.

Lady LambdaDelta has great reads ... in other words, I agree with them ... in other words, given my track record recently, they are
probably wrong

danakillsu #866 -- lets not make TOWN waste a nuke? wtf is this?

I'm not going to be posting scum and town lists though you can figure it out based on this post. I don't want to make life easy
for the Europeans (ie. to make it simple for them to figure out whether they need to kill me or not)

Speaking of good reads from people to trust. Mina is god. Let's finish what we started yesterday.

Vote: AurorusVox

Don't screw it up this time people.

[Toogeloo]

Rolefish attempt? Are you seeing things, Toog?

I was asking for a case on Vi from Swift Justice. They had barely mentioned him before hand, and I simply wanted to know why they were voting someone they hadn't expressed a strong scum read on, over someone who they just called out for "scum posting".

But you worded it so eloquently thus...

Oh, and forgot...

Vote: AVox

[Screaming Death Clan]

Sociopath is killing off people who can read him and are threats

We're next

I r sad

Vote: AV