Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Ranmaru]

Why exactly did you say scum after I asked about Poro though?

Ah I see. Can you re-read for me and give a little more on Poro? That would help.

[DeathNote]

31, 32- against Amrun

39 through like 47 is mostly about fur

He starts on me about 53

Afterwards him and amrun start on it again.

His only odd post that I can see is 80 to 81 in which he votes stranger and then unvotes. His vote made sense although I would have gone with an FoS instead. I just don't get why he just immediately drops it, IS must have convinced him otherwise.

84 starts on RC

The rest is a mixture of me and RC with occasional shouts at different players.

My point in all this is that he has played very strongly against certain players and tend to try really hard to piss people off I just don't find that scummy.

His last vote is weird.

[DeathNote]

I dont know why I did that... I never read ISO........

[Ranmaru]

"His only odd post that I can see is 80 to 81 in which he votes stranger and then unvotes. His vote made sense although I would have gone with an FoS instead. I just don't get why he just immediately drops it, IS must have convinced him otherwise."

Good point, I'll check that. @Porochaz, why did you vote IS and unvote him in a short period of time?

Also, why do you think his last vote was weird?

[DeathNote]

Because his attitude towards me has been pretty solid for most of the game. He disliked my posts, thought they were getting worse, and figured me lurking scum. At least, that is how I summarized it. However, now he doesn't understand the votes on me and votes a person who is on my wagon. Just kinda weird.

[Ranmaru]

That is weird. Check this out:

Answer my question then...

Deathnote, why aren't you

voting

doing anything AT ALL?

Cause i dont know what to do

He asked you this after you refused to answer my question earlier on. But, he never followed up with it. That is weird also. Like he didn't really care if you were doing anything or not.

[Ranmaru]

Hey Zindy. What are your current thoughts? Are you going to vote yet?

[Zindaras]

That was one weird exchange between Ranny and DN.

Gotta love Kison's suspicion of me. Totally logical.

I think one of our key goals right now should be figuring out what Toony's alignment is. If he's scum, yesterday's lynch provides us with so much information, especially looking at the way people just kept on that wagon, despite of everything that happened. Lain, Poro, Sens and Brian: what do you think of your votes yesterday?

I'm inclined to just vote Toony and be done with it, but I'm trying to figure out who my main suspect is right now. MBL's death is actually a positive from my point of view: he was one of my top gut calls and his death gives us a crapton of information. Town doesn't lie means he was telling the truth about his message. The modkill almost proves this for 100%, though I'm unsure if Mossy would kill MBL if it had been fake. Some do, some wouldn't. But, whatever, Town doesn't lie is sufficient for me. This means that, as far as I'm concerned, LlamaFluff wasn't breadcrumbing a result with his D2 opener and Kison's off the hook for that. We should be wary to engage in guessing games with the scum on how they'd use the messenger ability, though.

[Zindaras]

Lain, Poro, Sens and Brian: what do you think of your votes yesterday?

Ranny too, actually.

[Zindaras]

Final Vote Count:

Surye

(13) - (

Internet Stranger

, Zindaras,

vezokpiraka

, Kison, Cogito Ergo Sum,

HezLucky

, Furcolow, AGar, DeathNote, Kublai Khan, Primate,

LlamaFluff, ReaperCharlie

)
Furcolow (8) - (SensFan, Toon Fighter, BrianMcQueso,

Surye, creampuffeater

, GummyBear, Medicated Lain, Furcolow)
Medicated Lain (2) - (

Yosarian2, MrBuddyLee

)
ToonFighter (1) - (

Amrun

)
GummyBear (1) - (Albert B. Rampage)

Final Votecount:

Death Ninja

(10) - (BrianMcQueso, SensFan,

Internet Stranger

, bristep123,

Yosarian2

, Ranmaru, Toon Fighter, Medicated Lain, Cogito Ergo Sum, Porochaz)
Toon Fighter (8) - (Kublai Khan, Kison,

HezLucky

, DeathNote,

Death Ninja, LlamaFluff

, Zindaras, Primate)
DeathNote (1) - (Albert B. Rampage)
SensFan (1) - (

MrBuddyLee

)
Ranmaru (1) - (dramonic)

I can't help but notice that the entire Furc-wagon from D1 proceeded to jump on the equally poor Ninja-wagon on D2, while most of the Surye-wagon jumped on Toon Fighter. This is certainly very interesting.

[BrianMcQueso]

unvote

I'm going to upset if Llama actually had a result on DeathNote, and that his play caused us to disregard it.

No. You can not quote either real or fabricated Mod supplied info.

Not the point of what I was saying. Look, as a messenger, you can say whatever you like to your target. But the message said that MBL would have double-vote power, something that is easily verifiable. If the message was false, it would be simple to prove so. Because of that, I'm led to believe that the double-vote thing is more likely to have been true.

I need to take a fresh look at this game, especially when it comes to ToonFighter.

[BrianMcQueso]

Didn't see the recent posts. I still stand by my vote for ReaperCharlie yesterday, his behavior was just ridiculously scummy. I know he's flipped town now, but I still felt like it was the right choice.

I can't help but notice that the entire Furc-wagon from D1 proceeded to jump on the equally poor Ninja-wagon on D2, while most of the Surye-wagon jumped on Toon Fighter. This is certainly very interesting.

Maybe it's just 2am locally and I'm intoxicated, but could you spell this out for me? What conclusions or speculation do you draw from that trend?

[Ranmaru]

It's day three. Shorter than day two. 15/25 alive. One mafia dead. Rest are townie, cop, doc. Four kills in the night. I think it's safe to say that one is a vig, and identified, but aside from this, we have little information. If we have two mafias of three people, then over 1/3rd of our current town have anti-town roles. If we have a cult, then we are in very serious trouble. I am inclined to believe that we have no cult, because out of 10 deaths, none of them show up as cult, and we should have at least 3 cult members (leader plus two followers, one for each night), and at this point that seems like a seriously anti town situation.

I agree with Primate, if Llama's message wasn't fake, you need to come out immediately.

The absolute best information we have to go on is Hezlucky

creampuffeater

- 61/100
Toon Fighter - 58/100
Kison - 57/100
SensFan - 57/100

Surye

- 57/100
Medicated Lain - 56/100
Porochaz - 55/100
Zindaras - 54/100
AlbertBRampage - 54/100

LlamaFluff

- 53/100
mozamis/CES - 51/100

MBL

- 51/100

Internet Stranger

- 51/100
Everyone else - 50/100
BrianMcQueso - 50/100
Agar - 49/100

vezopiraka

- 49/100

Amrun

- 48/100
Furcolow - 48/100

Yosarian2

- 48/100
Primate - 46/100

This list was posted twice, and didn't change much either time. I am inclined to believe that scum would choose one person to cling to, and one person to steer away from, so I think we likely have one scum closer to the bottom of this list, and one closer to the top. Right now I want to stick to the top. Sensfan and toonfighter are the two people that Hez pointed to the most on day two. I'm inclined to believe one of them is probably Hez's buddy, because Hez didn't strike me as particularly scummy, which makes me think he would be interested in throwing scum under the tracks to help the group. If this is the case, then TF certainly seems more like someone to throw under the tracks than Sens, but bringing out Sens would highlight Hez's investigative abilities, could have been preparing for a cop claim or something?

I don't have a ton of time today or this weekend. But this game needs to get moving, so I wanted to give some food for thought. Day three, one mafia person dead, we can't afford to get this wrong today.

Made the text bigger for emphasis. I think it's odd Hez didn't mention Deathnote in there. Or rather, I'm sure DN fits in the "everyone else" category.

I edited some of the names on the list to green who flipped town. I would be inclined to believe Sensfan > TF. Don't you think so? I think you yourself have seen that TF has been a bit VI-ish. What do you think of TF's vote on Deathnote, and Kison's stance on DN's vote on TF?

You said he might have also hid a buddy near the bottom. If this was so, who would you think that would have been and why?

It doesn't look very incriminating.

But don't confuse my disbelief that LlamaFluff was breadcrumbing a guilty on DeathNote to suggest that I think he is town. His reaction to the MBL modkill is sketchy, and overall play is underwhelming.

Good lynches for today:

Toon Fighter
Kublai Khan
Zindaras
Death Note

Toon Fighter's Death Note vote is horrid. He is blindly following what Brian McQueso started even after I provided an explanation for why LlamaFluff wasn't breadcrumbing a guilty, and ignored my request that he explain why.

Time for him to die.

Ah, I misunderstood. I am not voting DN solely for Llama's gambit, but also because of DN's prior play AND scummy reaction to the gambit.

Do you think TF show's VI like qualities? I think his whole play all game was bad, just not necessarily scummy. I also think Sensfan is a good candidate for lynch too.

Yes, before you start, I want you to give some reads, and I want you to comment on events that happened while you were away. For example, thoughts on the RC wagon

Haven't had a chance to analyze it properly in regards to the timeline in which things happened. Although I'll say that those who didn't unvote ReaperCharlie/battousai/Death Ninja after they started providing content (especially since competing-wagon Toon Fighter continues to be scummy) are more likely to be scum.

Llama's gambit

An interesting occurrance, considering he flipped a cop.

He claimed an amnesiac cop result (judging it to be fake) and MrBuddyLee claimed one as well, so that's a whole null situation.

His "I have a guilty, no wait I don't" is incredibly weird play for a cop. It would only cause his future cop claim to be disbelieved more than necessary even if he was trying to WIFOM killers away from him. I'm more inclined to disbelieve the retraction and not the guilty claim.

The Cult recruiter, etc.

Did something new happen with this? Were you recruited? Do tell.

Why is that? Are your reads forming up a bit better too?

Ah ok. So you think he retracted it to save his own hide while gaining another investigation or something?

No I meant the cult recruiter result message Llama got.

[BrianMcQueso]

Also, I just want to third my confirmation that if these messages are actually coming from an investigative source, you definitely need to step forward and confirm the two guilty results so we can start hitting bad guys and turning this game around.

[Ranmaru]

That was one weird exchange between Ranny and DN.

Gotta love Kison's suspicion of me. Totally logical.

I think one of our key goals right now should be figuring out what Toony's alignment is. If he's scum, yesterday's lynch provides us with so much information, especially looking at the way people just kept on that wagon, despite of everything that happened. Lain, Poro, Sens and Brian: what do you think of your votes yesterday?

I'm inclined to just vote Toony and be done with it, but I'm trying to figure out who my main suspect is right now. MBL's death is actually a positive from my point of view: he was one of my top gut calls and his death gives us a crapton of information. Town doesn't lie means he was telling the truth about his message. The modkill almost proves this for 100%, though I'm unsure if Mossy would kill MBL if it had been fake. Some do, some wouldn't. But, whatever, Town doesn't lie is sufficient for me. This means that, as far as I'm concerned, LlamaFluff wasn't breadcrumbing a result with his D2 opener and Kison's off the hook for that. We should be wary to engage in guessing games with the scum on how they'd use the messenger ability, though.

Explain how it was a weird interaction.

I was fine with my vote on RC. He stalled for so long and only caught up NEAR DEADLINE OF HIS LYNCH. He wasted our time by being a main distraction for so long until around deadline. His fate was sealed.

Why are you inclined to vote Toony? What are your thoughts on Death note?

[Ranmaru]

@Brian: I want to ask about the Defense scumtell you were using on Yos. Have you ever caught scum with it before?

[Ranmaru]

Bristep

:

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So, he last visited the day after this thread opened. Also, I wonder if he has read up already. I know he got prodded but I thought this would be good info to know.

[Primate]

Zindie, what information do we get if Toonfighter flips town and, if it's little, why are you advocating such a situational plan?

[Porochaz]

Well? I see you posting around 20 minutes after my previous post. @Porochaz

It was a short post at about 3am, this post I have the feeling will take considerably longer. If you look at the timings of the three votes along with the game changer.

I think it is reasonable to say that LlamaFluff actually had a result on DeathNote all along.

...right?

vote: DeathNote

Its not great reasoning, but its still there. I do think at this point its more likely to be a "scum messenger" but this route could easily be taken as well.

I don't know. Llama said he had a reason for doing it. It seemed like he was desperate to get it out.

I think we should look back at his reads and see if he crumbed anything.

I'm ok with a Deathnote wagon also, because of the way he reacted to Llama's claim. (He reacted as if he KNEW Llama was wrong, but didn't try to call Llama obv scum for it or anything)

Vote: Deathnote

Your post gives further reason and all in all actually it seems like a townie post. It's still not fantastic reasoning but its fine none the less.

Then latterly-confirmed MBL quoted this:

Attention scumbags:
REDACTED IN FEAR OF ACCIDENTAL MODKILL
Is that the best you can do with your scum Messenger ability?

Then with no further reasoning, no acknowledgement that MBL's posts change things -

I agree, Llama's possible guilty result on Deathnote is the best thing we have right now

vote: DeathNote

Just a sheep vote where there definitely shouldnt be one. Thats why Im voting TF.

[Toon Fighter]

@ Poro: What would you do if it turns out Llama was actually telling the truth and had a guilty result on DN? It's an opportunity we can't pass. If DN is really scum, our best plan is to lynch him.

[Porochaz]

Wait

unvote

the message was about Kison and he claimed to have a guilty on Deathnote. Gah that sucks more. Sorry I got confused.

[Porochaz]

Sorry TF, my feelings on the matter now are he's played it in such a way that I wouldnt be totally confident that he actually investigated DN but it would make sense if he got a guilty but wanted to remain hidden but at the same time the gambit of outing then "re-inning" himself seems counter productive to this especially if he has a guilty. Will have to think about it more maybe read through day 2.

[Zindaras]

Didn't see the recent posts. I still stand by my vote for ReaperCharlie yesterday, his behavior was just ridiculously scummy. I know he's flipped town now, but I still felt like it was the right choice.

I can't help but notice that the entire Furc-wagon from D1 proceeded to jump on the equally poor Ninja-wagon on D2, while most of the Surye-wagon jumped on Toon Fighter. This is certainly very interesting.

Maybe it's just 2am locally and I'm intoxicated, but could you spell this out for me? What conclusions or speculation do you draw from that trend?

I find it weird that people would agree so very much. If Furc and/or Toony are scum, this also has a lot of meaning. I'll have to go back and look at my earlier notes on the Vezok wagon to see how they acted there, but voting blocks are always an eyebrow-raiser. I am inclined to think there's multiple scum in there, especially because the individuals on there have been scummy over the course of the game (Sens, Furc, Toony).

Explain how it was a weird interaction.

1869 through 1871 are hilariously flabbergasting.

I was fine with my vote on RC. He stalled for so long and only caught up NEAR DEADLINE OF HIS LYNCH. He wasted our time by being a main distraction for so long until around deadline. His fate was sealed.

-The people who deposited their vote on RC and then kept it there without adding anything else were wasting time just as well.
-There was no serious case on him besides the lurker thing. This was taken away by his catching up later. You can argue all you want, but providing meaningful input on a big game after replacing in can be quite a challenge. I remember using a full weekend to catch up to Kingmaker II.
-His catchup would've provided us with massive info if he were scum. Scum have massive incentives to just lurk through the deadline when they are on the block. Now who did that? *scratches thin thoughtfully* Why, Toony did.

Why are you inclined to vote Toony? What are your thoughts on Death note?

For Toony, see above. I felt there was a pretty good case on him yesterday, especially for him over RC. Time has not made him look any better, but now we can choose between everyone so I'm not sure if he's my absolute top suspect. I skimmed DeathNote and he's quite sane yesterday. Solidly against lynching RC, preferring Toony. I dislike his preference for Vez Day 1. Those two days kind of even themselves out, leaving me at neutral. Then there's LF's claim yesterday. This is why I'm solidly in the "Town shouldn't lie. Ever" camp, kids. The main problem I have with it is that the whole thing doesn't make sense, at least from my perspective. Llama barely mentions DeathNote throughout Day 2. If he had been gunning for him all day and then made and retracted the fake claim, I would've been okay with it. But he didn't. That evidence is circumstantial at best, though DN's case is not helped by LlamaFluff's death. His reaction is also a tad on the cool side.

If you want me to vote DeathNote, you'll have to come up with more.

Zindie, what information do we get if Toonfighter flips town and, if it's little, why are you advocating such a situational plan?

We know that yesterday's lynch did not hold special importance. I'm advocating the plan because I think Toony is scum.

@ Poro: What would you do if it turns out Llama was actually telling the truth and had a guilty result on DN? It's an opportunity we can't pass. If DN is really scum, our best plan is to lynch him.

Horrible posting. Only confirms me in my decision.

Vote: Toon Fighter

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I've been looking through Llama's posting. Keeping in mind what I saw last game from Llamacop, Open 300, the distinct lack of town reads and him specifically claiming not to be an "alignment cop", my best guess here is that he's a machine cop and got a result on TF. Fairly useless on account of TF already having claimed program, but yeah, I'm not gonna go for DN here.

Vote: TF

[dramonic]

was the message MBL received similar to the message somebody else got earlier?
honestly i havent read over the game and id like to know, its relevant to my interests.