Newbie 1120 - The Scum in Sherlock (Over!)

[Thor665]

@hiplop - Smurf. I choose not to curse in my posts (there's more creative ways to express disgust) and I also choose to edit in all curse words as Smurf to help showcase how much power and validity those words actually add to a case - also known as, none at all (and possibly detract from it).

When you figure out what isn't right about that post let me know - because that post is awesome. Also, note that the questions raised in that post were dodged by Scumhunter, proving how awesome that post is. I'd also actually like to see you really start weighing in here, we're 5 pages in and I don't feel I have a grasp on your position on much of anything - why is that?

@Hellhound - do you think scum often buddy up to very pro town looking players?

[cloudocean]

@hiphop

1. I still have to do a more in-depth read than the skim I just did - but Awesoma is my second choice scum
2. Also, lol @ Thor OMGUS'ing
3. Why is Thor town?

@Thor665
1. I've already addressed your explanation. Look to post 39. Again, there aren't any contradictions that I haven't refuted. Try again.
2. Scumhunter brings up a good point. Why have you done nothing except tunnel me? What's your opinion on Awesoma?

@Hellhound1
1. (Post 27) I directly quoted you. I left the last bit out because I felt it wasn't necessary - it didn't change the meaning and you never responded to me when I asked "does conjecture excuse backing words up?" There was no twisting of words.
2. (Post 60) Already addressed this. Explained it twice. Try again.
3. Why are you on Thor's dick?
4. Why is Awesoma leaning town? I want 3 solid reasons.

@ninjacheese
1. You never gave me an instance where I contradicted myself/misquoted someone. I have already addressed posts 60 and 27. I would urge you to find me something original that shows me contradicting myself/misquoting someone.
2. You haven't done anything except jump on the cloudocean wagon, got any opinions on other people?

[Thor665]

2. Also, lol @ Thor OMGUS'ing
3. Why is Thor town?

Why is OMGUS scummy?
When did I actually use OMGUS
Also - define OMGUS, the most misused scumtell in the entire game.

@Thor665
1. I've already addressed your explanation. Look to post 39. Again, there aren't any contradictions that I haven't refuted. Try again.

You 'addressed' it insomuch as you admitted you decided what I meant was different then what I said and then called it a contradiction. Explain how that works.

2. Scumhunter brings up a good point. Why have you done nothing except tunnel me? What's your opinion on Awesoma?

Already explained tunnel on you. Already gave read on Awesoma; I haven't seen anything I would call scummy.

[Thor665]

@Hellhound - do you think scum often buddy up to very pro town looking players?[/quote]

3. Why are you on Thor's Smurf?

If you're going to sheep me too, at least let him deal with my question, which was a lot more clever, without wading in so awkwardly.

[Thor665]

Bah - messed up quotes, first question was a quote from me that cloudocean was excited enough by that he decided to hop on my Smurf and replicate it.

[Hellhound1]

@Thor i don't yet believe scumhunter is town, he came much too quickly to clouds defense without any reason.

[Awesoma]

I havent gotten any pressure at all lately. And no, gosh, I've said this a million times, ever since we got off the first page I haven't been basing votes off of previous games as there is actually evidence from this game to support a vote. Regardless, I'm still neutral.

[Hellhound1]

[quote="cloudocean"
1. (Post 27) I directly quoted you. I left the last bit out because I felt it wasn't necessary - it didn't change the meaning and you never responded to me when I asked "does conjecture excuse backing words up?" There was no twisting of words.
2. (Post 60) Already addressed this. Explained it twice. Try again.
3. Why are you on Thor's dick?
4. Why is Awesoma leaning town? I want 3 solid reasons.[/quote]
You cant directly quote me, leave out the rest of it and say thats what i said. I said it was just a thought and you have constantly ignored that.
I'm not. Whys scumhunter on your dick? Theres an equally stupid question.
And well I'm guessing awesoma has a power role. Obviously i don't want him to out if he is the cop, but o suspect he is. I might be wrong and awesoma was making an assumption him/her self.

[Hellhound1]

Ballsed up the quote -.-

[hitogoroshi]

Vote Count #6

cloudocean:

Thor665, Hellhound1, ninjacheese (L-2)

Thor665:

Scumhunter, cloudocean

Awesoma:

hiplop

Hellhound1

:

hiplop

Not Voting:

startransmission, Swag136, Awesoma

Deadline is on July 6th, 2011, at 2PM Central Time.

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

***

Swag136 has been prodded.

The next VC might be a little delayed due to birthday celebrations.

[hiplop]

@hiphop

1. I still have to do a more in-depth read than the skim I just did - but Awesoma is my second choice scum
2. Also, lol @ Thor OMGUS'ing
3. Why is Thor town?

@Thor665
1. I've already addressed your explanation. Look to post 39. Again, there aren't any contradictions that I haven't refuted. Try again.
2. Scumhunter brings up a good point. Why have you done nothing except tunnel me? What's your opinion on Awesoma?

@Hellhound1
1. (Post 27) I directly quoted you. I left the last bit out because I felt it wasn't necessary - it didn't change the meaning and you never responded to me when I asked "does conjecture excuse backing words up?" There was no twisting of words.
2. (Post 60) Already addressed this. Explained it twice. Try again.
3. Why are you on Thor's dick?
4. Why is Awesoma leaning town? I want 3 solid reasons.

@ninjacheese
1. You never gave me an instance where I contradicted myself/misquoted someone. I have already addressed posts 60 and 27. I would urge you to find me something original that shows me contradicting myself/misquoting someone.
2. You haven't done anything except jump on the cloudocean wagon, got any opinions on other people?

3. You can tell, hes trying to be incredibly pro-town. Hes tunneling way too much, but you can still see the sincerity. Much like you.

[Scumhunter]

Thor, its very possible you and cloud is town v. town.

What I've been asking you to consider is that I don't think you are thinking rationally about your case and you are tunneling like crazy. I mean just look you now fos me just for disagreeing with you? I can see why you suspected cloud, but his responses to your questions make plenty of sense from a town perspective. Does that make him town? Not necessarily. But he sure as hell isn't super scummy either.

If you are town, take a look at yourself and what you are doing. I'm trying to talk to you rationally and tell you that your case is weak. That's just my opinion sure. But it should mean SOMETHING to you if you think I'm an at least somewhat competent town player here.

Your pressure and enthusiasm could be much better used elsewhere, for example aimed at Swag who has not posted even once in this thread or at starttransmission who has just posted twice...

@Swag + Start, when you see this please give your opinion on what has happened up until now in this game and your thoughts so far.

vote starttransmission

I'd vote both of you if I could, please provide some content. Thanks

[Thor665]

I mean just look you now fos me just for disagreeing with you?

That's not why I listed you as 2nd scummiest, I specifically said why I listed you as 2nd scummiest.
How is that answer to my question you keep dodging going? Y'know, the one where you said I was more cautious in our other game played together and then you sort of just went - derpity-derpy-doo...and tried to forget that line of questioning? Please answer this question or I'll indeed stop tunneling on cloud, but it will be to tunnel on you till lynch do us part.

Your pressure and enthusiasm could be much better used elsewhere, for example aimed at Swag who has not posted even once in this thread or at starttransmission who has just posted twice...

I'm playing with Swag in another game - $5 says he's flaking out on all of them and will need to be replaced. I don't need to pressure someone who isn't even laying the game.

[Scumhunter]

Thor, your play in this game linked here was marked by cautious, thoughtful, intelligent and calculated town thought process at deducing the scum:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=17472

Your play this game has been irrational, aggressive, reactionary, and downright illogical. You have been zoned in on pushing a specific lynch from the beginning of page 1 without considering any other options. I just can't imagine you acting this way as town. I have tried reasoning with you over and over. You aren't listening. The only remaining conclusion is that you are scum.

Now you are threatening to vote me if I don't agree with you. That is a scum fear tactic. Can you put your case on cloud into a couple of bullet points?

[Thor665]

My play in the game you linked was exactly as I described it;

Tunnel, tunnel, tunnel - lynch.
Grumble at people not voting enough, bully people onto wagons I support, tunnel, tunnel, tunnel. Show me where my play is *different* on Day 1, show me actions on Day 1 where I wasn't tunneling someone or making seemingly unsubstantiated claims about someone's alignment. Show me the differences, baby.

I'm not threatening to vote you if you don't agree with me - I was threatening to vote you if you didn't answer my question and kept dodging it. Try to keep up.

My case on cloud;
Gut.
Vote shift during RVS while being cagey about explaining weak RVS reasons until someone pointed out the shocking idea of 'what benefit is there not to explain them?'
Defensive little dap posts.
Contradiction hunting while ignoring that he's trimming posts and drawing mental conclusions in order to create the contradictions - acting like that's a good idea.
And gut.

When you come in and go 'these are bad/weak reasons' I'll automatically respond that you should go and get my FS=town and my Meran=scum cases from that last game and see how much difference there is.

[Hellhound1]

I have a feeling Swag will be replaced tonight. It'll be good to see how a new person reacts, i feel like thor & ocean are getting nowhere, and scumhunter has jumped to oceans aid too quickly for my liking.

[Scumhunter]

My play in the game you linked was exactly as I described it;

Tunnel, tunnel, tunnel - lynch.
Grumble at people not voting enough, bully people onto wagons I support, tunnel, tunnel, tunnel. Show me where my play is *different* on Day 1, show me actions on Day 1 where I wasn't tunneling someone or making seemingly unsubstantiated claims about someone's alignment. Show me the differences, baby.

I'm not threatening to vote you if you don't agree with me - I was threatening to vote you if you didn't answer my question and kept dodging it. Try to keep up.

My case on cloud;
Gut.
Vote shift during RVS while being cagey about explaining weak RVS reasons until someone pointed out the shocking idea of 'what benefit is there not to explain them?'
Defensive little dap posts.
Contradiction hunting while ignoring that he's trimming posts and drawing mental conclusions in order to create the contradictions - acting like that's a good idea.
And gut.

When you come in and go 'these are bad/weak reasons' I'll automatically respond that you should go and get my FS=town and my Meran=scum cases from that last game and see how much difference there is.

In response to your points:

Gut

- Obviously I can't argue with you over this. This is your opinion and that is fine.

Voteshift during RVS

. He more than adequately explained what he was doing here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3133106. A scum would be much more cautious not to ruffle any feathers early on. He specifically said he had a reason for what he was doing. That reason being that it is more useful to pressure a newer player than an IC. That makes sense to me, does it not make sense to you?

Defensive posts-

Null tell. Defensiveness can be indicative of annoyed town as much as flailing scum. He tried to reason with you many times. I.e. here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3135682

Contradiction hunting while ignoring that he's trimming posts and drawing mental conclusions in order to create the contradictions - acting like that's a good idea.

Not sure I understand this. Not a big fan of the semantics game and this argument. Whatever inconsistencies in quotes/scumhunting are way overshadowed by cloud's general attitude which is one I really have a hard time believing scum would take. I.e. I'll post multiple times saying I'll say what I'm doing later even though I'm getting shit for it. He eventually outs a LEGIT reason for his vote hop. I don't think that is scum faking town motivation i really don't.

[Thor665]

In response to your points:

Though you AGAIN fail to show how my play is any different from the other game. Why do you keep dodging this? DOes it seem like too much work? Have you changed your mind? What?

Voteshift during RVS

. He more than adequately explained what he was doing here: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 6#p3133106. A scum would be much more cautious not to ruffle any feathers early on. He specifically said he had a reason for what he was doing. That reason being that it is more useful to pressure a newer player than an IC. That makes sense to me, does it not make sense to you?

I've explained why it made sense as scum too, does that not make sense to you?
So he starts with voting me (for the random reason of starting pressure) then he unvotes me (I personally think it's because he noticed there was already a vote on me and was scared to be the 2nd vote guy - but whatevs) His reason? He "just" noticed I was an IC and wanted to pressure a newbie...well...what, he can't take 30 seconds if his plan is to pressure a newbie with his RVS to FIGURE OUT WHO THE CLEARLY LABELED NEWBIES ARE? Seriously, how does this explanation make sense? It's very clear who the newbies are - so why did he need to change after voting the opposite of a newbie? Answer? It's because he's lying about why he changed, ergo he's scum.

Defensive posts-

Null tell.

When done to the exclusion of scumhunting I actually disagree. You can call it trying to reason with me, I call it scum trying to appease me...and then after he can't appease me he starts attacking me as obviously scummy. Neither of us can be certain whose version is correct until he flips (unless you're scum) but I see no reason why your perception is more valid than mine, clarification?

Contradiction hunting while ignoring that he's trimming posts and drawing mental conclusions in order to create the contradictions - acting like that's a good idea.

Not sure I understand this. Not a big fan of the semantics game and this argument. Whatever inconsistencies in quotes/scumhunting are way overshadowed by cloud's general attitude which is one I really have a hard time believing scum would take.

He is changing quotes and/or choosing to interpret them in strange ways and then calling the other person scummy because of contradictions.
You CAN'T justify changing what a person says and then calling it a contradiction - that makes no sens whatsoever and is totally undefendable as a valid method to find contradictions or scum. Do you disagree?

I.e. I'll post multiple times saying I'll say what I'm doing later even though I'm getting shit for it. He eventually outs a LEGIT reason for his vote hop. I don't think that is scum faking town motivation i really don't.

I'll post multiple times saying that I won't reveal just yet.
Then when someone asks why it helps town to not reveal just yet - I'll reveal right away literally minutes after just saying I won't reveal just yet.
When I do reveal I'll claim the vote was for pressure...and RVS, haha, yeah, RVS, really, totally random...leave me alone!
Also - both the people voting me are scum. Really.

I dunno, Scumhunter, why is he so obvious town again?

[hiplop]

Thor, why don't you join my wagon of Awesoma, she needs pressure

[Thor665]

Does she need pressure or lynching? I do lynching. I've also said I don't see anything she's done as scummy - so that is an awkward sell for me. How about you give me 1-2 sentences as to why she needs lynching and then we'll talk.
You could also vote cloud or Scumhunter, that would be awesome.

[hiplop]

My apologies thor, i thought you were the one who said Awsoma is your 2nd candidate for scum.

Well you remember our last game, right? I wasn't very good, and i was scum. I played EXACTLY how awsoma is right now, shes been contraicting herself, and sort of leeched onto you, thor. Its exactly how newb-scums play.

I'd rather vote Scumhunter than CO, id be willing to go for SH tbh

[Thor665]

What about Hellhound? He's leeching off of me waaaay more than Awesoma.
Also, contradictions really aren't scummy.

Unvote: cloudocean
Vote: Scumhunter

Let's party.

[Hellhound1]

Indeed i am, but more because you had a similar idea to me. And im hardly leeching.
Ive put my own case forward thank you very much!
It appears however its leaning towards scumhunter, my second choice for scum. Which i decided ON MY OWN a while back in a post.
Oh well ill see what happens before maybe changing my vote or not

[Thor665]

Though recognize that if Scum flips scum than cloud is most likely town. Your Scum/Cloud scum pair is rather unlikely.

[Hellhound1]

Though recognize that if Scum flips scum than cloud is most likely town. Your Scum/Cloud scum pair is rather unlikely.

Would you explain for me please how you came to that conclusion?