Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Thor665]

@Emp - current mod claims that as his system, you don't think that's a potential hint to how mothrax did it?

[Empking]

@Emp - current mod claims that as his system, you don't think that's a potential hint to how mothrax did it?

No. To be honest its more likely to be a potential hint that its impossible to be double-killed in this game.

[mikeburnfire]

I think there is some merit to having Rag not kill, but then you'll all (Empking) reiterate how she's obviously mafia or something stupid when somebody is dead in the morning.

Thor, seriously. "Too much neighbor tech"? It's a worthless role. It doesn't confirm anyone. Although, I don't think I received an answer from Ant regarding whether or not they can see each others' flavor, which is an important detail to me.

I'm more than satisfied with a dramonic lynch. As I've said before, I've seen nothing useful from that slot through all three players that occupied it. And the interactions with Dana lead me to believe that 2 of {Thor, MoS and CDB (dram)} are the last scum

Thor: Dana persists on Thor being town all game.
Peregrene: Dana and Thor argued a lot in a way that seems genuine.
MoS: Interactions vary, but never get too serious.
CDB: Dana only commented on CDB once, and that was when Ooba linked Dana and CDB together as scum

There has been a case for Peregene that started to sway me, and Empking could be a godfather. But as it stands, I'm going to keep my vote on dramonic and won't be around to suddenly hammer whatever quick-wagon sprouts up.

[Thor665]

Thor, seriously. "Too much neighbor tech"? It's a worthless role. It doesn't confirm anyone.

Except Rag for you, amirite

No, I think too much neighbor tech is a perfectly fine issue. If I'd claimed neighborizer would that have been too much neighbor tech? I think we're niggling on a matter of degrees, not on a matter of whether 'too much X tech' is a valid position.


@Emp - a potential hint? Why do I feel like your Rag case requires a lot of squinting and turning of the head sideways. Yeah, she's useless, and has been useless, and if mbf is town and she isn't she's pulled the wool so far over his eyes he's stepping on it as he mumbles about how useless dram is - but the setup is mafia kill and on odd nights have their kill flavor match the even night Vig who they are neighbors with as their roleblocker protects them from a Day Doc, a Neighborizer, and a Cop fumbling about? That would be a weird as hell setup and heavily scum favored.

Neighbor Vigs
Cop
Day Doc (lol?)
vs.
Roleblocker
Scum Neighborizer
Goon

Seems more reasonable, yeah?

[Empking]

Thor, seriously. "Too much neighbor tech"? It's a worthless role. It doesn't confirm anyone.

Except Rag for you, amirite

No, I think too much neighbor tech is a perfectly fine issue. If I'd claimed neighborizer would that have been too much neighbor tech? I think we're niggling on a matter of degrees, not on a matter of whether 'too much X tech' is a valid position.


@Emp - a potential hint? Why do I feel like your Rag case requires a lot of squinting and turning of the head sideways. Yeah, she's useless, and has been useless, and if mbf is town and she isn't she's pulled the wool so far over his eyes he's stepping on it as he mumbles about how useless dram is - but the setup is mafia kill and on odd nights have their kill flavor match the even night Vig who they are neighbors with as their roleblocker protects them from a Day Doc, a Neighborizer, and a Cop fumbling about? That would be a weird as hell setup and heavily scum favored.

Neighbor Vigs
Cop
Day Doc (lol?)
vs.
Roleblocker
Scum Neighborizer
Goon

Seems more reasonable, yeah?

They're both reasonable set ups to my mind.

[Thor665]

Why does the Rag one win out?

[Empking]

Why does the Rag one win out?

Because of night one.

[Ragnarokio]

MBF: Town

Ant: No cop counterclaim makes me think he's town, but I still have a scumread on his behaviour.

Emp: He's being silly, but I imagine that's how he usually is, I don't have any real way to get a read on him, since the ability to vote anyone for anything is a pretty good shield as scum, and Emp doesn't seem to be a big fan of traditional reasoning. Cop read makes him more likely town.

Dram: I have a town read on him, mostly because I find him to be pretty reasonable, and because vibes.

Thor: I still have a scumread on you. I read back on the day 2 dana wagon stuff. You placed the first vote on dana, and your last post before the dana lynch was when dana had two votes. I'd say it's very feasible that you and dana are scum-mates, especially considering your relationship before that.

MoS: No read, but more likely to be scum, through process of elimination.

Peregrine: The post that caught my eye was this one:

@MBF- you do realize that town is really powered up, and that is what makes your claim ( and thus your thoughts about Rag) hard to believe?

It seemed a little calculated a response to an unbelievable claim, although town carefulness is also possible. My read on Peregrine is still town because he feels genuine.

I forget who else is alive, if anyone.

[Thor665]

I'd say it's very feasible that you and dana are scum-mates, especially considering your relationship before that.

What relationship before that? Was it the one on Day 1 where I was voting him and he was trying to buddy me?

Thor has one vote - you.
MoS has one vote - not you, meaning you could make it two.
Two of your town reads have two votes and I have discussed moving to one of them - meaning one of your scum reads could pick which of your town reads to lynch!

You could move one of your scumreads into actual contention as a possible lynch today and force me to stay there if I'm "bussing" again just like I did with my obv. buddy dana. Instead you don't move your vote at all as everyone is staring at two players you call town reads as the lynches of the day.
If you are town.
I hate you.

[Thor665]

MBF needs to come and remind me how obv. town Rag is - I'm starting to squint enough that Emp's case is looking good - and that scares me.

[Ragnarokio]

Do you usually treat incompetence as a scumtell?

I'll compile a case on you.

[Thor665]

I do treat choosing to leave the lynch of the day between two town reads when you could change the situation with your vote instead of leaving it as a wasted sideline vote to be a scumtell.
Why do you ask?

[Thor665]

Do you usually treat incompetence as a scumtell?

Also, are you admitting incompetence here? If you think I have a point then change your vote. If you don't think I have a point then tell me to sod off and explain how my lynch is going to happen today.
Or...just...keep wasting the Day...?

[Thor665]

@Rag/mbf - how come you guys aren't a voting block? You're both convinced the other is town, you have a QT, and you're apparently not agreeing on the strategy of the day.
If you're both town I also hate both of you as a unit as well as potentially separately. You feel like a pair of scum voting, not a pair of town.

[Thor665]

There is not that much time left, I am frustrated at a large variety of people and will probably have mumbly comments and wagging fingers at the endgame once I know everyone's alignment.
I'm still prtty game to get back to MoS if we can make that happen, and by 'make that happen' I mean two votes on him that aren't me.

Unvote: MoS
Vote: Peregrine

I dunno, I'm basing this mostly off of how Dram responded to my questions about Pere and the Day Doc thing. Dram said, basically, 'if your role is legit he looks really scummy.' Well, my role *is* legit, and second off, if Dram was scum and Pere wasn't I would tend to have expected some stronger language in that exchange, maybe even just a flat out calling of Pere scummy for the interaction. Instead - mush mouth. That's my call and I'm running with it.

We have less than 24 hours methinks, let's try to have a lynch - I understand they help catch scum.

[Empking]

29

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS - Pretty heavily leaning scum. Would love to have him lynched today.

Why?

1. If I buy into the Vigs as town - your claim as a town power doesn't hold as much water.
2. Your claim of verifiable town power to save your backside when all you had was neighborizer is pretty weaksauce.
3. Your commentary about how analyzing the kill flavors is a crutch for weak scumhunters paired with a lack of clear scumhunting direction today is a jarring juxtaposition.
4. And, really primarily, pure gut because at the end of Day 2 when I was sort of snarking on everyone for not digging on the dana lynch (and what bussing scum would want to have a negative attitude towards that lynch) you leapt out with a 'oooh, oooh, all for it over here' remark all while not having done much to advance that lynch in the end of day hoopla.

1) The "vigs" are not likely both town...
2) What did you expect me to do? Get lynched because of a random-ass wagon from people that didn't even give a reason to be voting me?
3) So basically you're saying that because I don't know *exactly* who I want to lynch, I'm scum for stating my opinion on kill flavor as a mod? How does that even make sense to you?
4) You *do* realize that I was on dana since Day 1 and most of you bitches dragged your heels and wouldn't help me lynch him, and that even when I was on Magua I still made it clear that I was willing to switch to dana if people saw the light, right? That was the point of my comment. I don't appreciate getting called out for things that are clearly and categorically wrong.

---------------------------

Why are people clamoring to have Ant claim his investigation target? That makes no sense. If anything, the "vig" should claim their kill target (or lack thereof) and not have Ant claim. Otherwise, if Ant is going to investigate a protown player, scum can just kill that person and waste the result. I'd rather not let the scum plan for Ant's result in advance.

Will think more about who is the best lynch for today. Ant and I have some talking to do in QT.

[Empking]

I propose that Ant claim his investigation target, and Rag shoots at a person undisclosed. The reason for this is that there's probably no way to sabotage the cop at this point. Godfather perhaps, but nobody can control that. However, if the vig-kill target is disclosed, then the mafia can manipulate us. If they know Rag is going to kill a townie, they can just not kill and make Rag look like the scary Scumvig. If it's a secret, then mafia have to choose between killing a townie and clearing Rag as scum, or not killing and running the risk that she hits paydirt.

[Empking]

MOS: Why aren't you voting?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Here is a list of claims and rolenames for the living players.

dramonic - Vanilla Townie (Jeffery Barns)
Ant - Cop (Chuck)
Peregrine - Vanilla Townie (Director Langston Graham)
MoS - Neighborizor (Morgan Grimes)
Thor - Day Doc (Devon "Captain Awesome" Woodcomb)
MBF - Even-night Vig (CIA Agent Sarah Walker)
Rag - Odd-night Vig (NSA Agent John Casey, according to MBF he was told "Colonel John Casey")
Empking - Vanilla Townie (Ellie Bartowski)

[Thor665]

MOS: Why aren't you voting?

Because he's too busy defending himself vs. a vote that is no longer there and worrying about scum 'planning' for a cop investigation when they lack a roleblocker.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wait...so you're saying that the mafia *would* care about Ant claiming his target when they can just block him, but they would *not* care when they can't?

Just mull that one over for a bit, I'm sure you'll see something wrong with that.

I'm not voting because I don't know who I want to lynch yet. One of the vigs is probably an SK, but I don't have a good idea which one. Outside of that, 1 or 2 of Thor/Dram/Pere is mafia, depending on how many are left and whether or not Empking's town result is actually genuine. There are a lot of possibilities, and I'm not sure which one is right.

[Thor665]

I don't think they'll not care - but other than 'kill cop' what do you expect them to do?
Okay, now let's not tell them who the cop will investigate...are you expecting a plan other than 'kill cop'?
Oh, wait, but if they know we'll investigate a scum they'll 'kill cop'
Thankfully, if they know we'll investigate and clear a town for confirmed town they'll 'kill cop', I bet.

Did I come up with the 'something wrong' yet? Clue me in if I list 'something right' so I notice when it happens.

[Thor665]

I can see scum having some advantages with knowing kill target though - mbf has talked a lot of stuff I disagree with, but that one makes a lot of sense. Because the only time they want to 'kill Vig' is if Vig is targeting scum.

[Empking]

I can see scum having some advantages with knowing kill target though - mbf has talked a lot of stuff I disagree with, but that one makes a lot of sense. Because the only time they want to 'kill Vig' is if Vig is targeting scum.

Why would they kill vig in that case?