NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins

[Ythan]

Okay, I'm left with just one single question I'd like answered. What the heck did all that accomplish? Because I don't think it accomplished anything but the negatives I noted above.

It's pretty easy to tell what the purpose of a conversation is by reading it and it's pretty easy to figure out that not every exchange in a game is intended to accomplish a specific goal.

[Ythan]

Hopefully you come back tommorow with a fresh set of eyes and an open mind because this is getting ridiculous.

Did you not read the second part? You're still flailing scum.

Btw it looks like town is noticing too so

unvote vote Ethos

While ythan really stills reminds me of a player i used to play with who constantly try his hardest scumhunt but just didn't pull it off really well, he is also dense.

This lacks any attempt to dispute any of my reads. But I think you're scum so this doesn't surprise me.

Like i said, Ythan takes conclusions and doesn't take a hard look at things on the surface, while ethos (as i've seen) does, Ythan disagreed with how ethos looked at my #36, make a giant shit-storm, etc.

Be specific unless you're just trying to undermine my reads.

tunnel

You have opened a can of worms you are going to regret opening. Do you know what tunnel means? Do you have any desire to explain how that applies to my reads against you and two other players? Are you just throwing out buzzwords?

I like that Hiraki started contributing in a big way. I'll go back to mull over the specifics more carefully when I'm done just catching up.

unvote; vote: swag

... I dunno, I still think there's something behind him lurking when the game started. Haven't read the 11 pages I missed but I see 6 votes on Para so lol, no.

This does not bode well for you.

Starting to get into lots of walls. Going to just steamroll through and read individual players in iso later.

The fact that he's not just replacing out of this game but is also doing so in [Redacted] should be a sign that his recent actions are more likely extremely frustrated town rather than flailing scum.

Lol obvious scumbuddies.

[Ythan]

Yosarian2 replaces Parabollocks.

Aw man.

You're using selective and ridiculous absolutes. And that's one part of why I'm calling you scum.

Ythan, can you explain why that’s a scumtell?

Is this a serious question? Cherrypicking ridiculous baseis for reads.

[Ythan]

Well part of the way through my read it looked like the Ethos wagon might be gaining ground on his buddy's but I guess Para really picked up the slack.

unvote vote Yosarian2

[Hiraki]

nooo ethos.

Can't lynch me scumbuddy.

sorry.

[kanyeknowsbest]

unvote; vote: swag

... I dunno, I still think there's something behind him lurking when the game started. Haven't read the 11 pages I missed but I see 6 votes on Para so lol, no.

what.

Nulls can change to scum/town all the time, i like having huge null lists for these reasons, and some town reads can fill those nulls once again etc.

also, just because i have someone as scum doesn't mean i'm gonna vote them yet, i need to make a case on them or put some reasoning behind a vote before i vote someone, that's how i do things, don't like it, oh well.

refusal to commit to any reads by parabollocks

#362 ...

#375 dram

I think Oversoul is town too but how do you discern Swag is town?

So I really don't think Oversoul 'claimed' anything. With the 'w00t!' in front of the 'claim' it reads less like "oh I started that wagon I want due credit" and more like "hey I'm a noob and I did something right for once".

Ignores the fact that he earlier stated he had a town-read on Oversoul, doesn't state any reasoning behind it but states disagreement with the reasoning behind our town-read.

spyrex already touched on it but because he disagrees with your reasoning for a town read does not mean he can't think the dude is town.

3. I don't expect you to read our minds in regards to our reads but surely you would understand that we would make statements regarding reads that aren't all mentioned in-thread.

hydrascuses

Vote: Quilford

why

That makes your statement about "Ohh para look the scums are trying to kill you because of how right you are in your reads (KKB)" make even less sense because that wagon is made by and pushed HARD UN FAST by your now town reads.

this.

SpyreX, it's not a change of universe at all. Prior to that post all of those reads had been mentioned apart from KoC who hadn't posted until then. If you want a particular town-read explained ask otherwise I'm not in the particular mood to go around explaining them all. The statement in regards to the wagon formation was made by Slaxx with the intention of attempting to state that Para shouldn't let it all get to him too much. Essentially it was a plea to not quit playing mafia completly because Para is infact a good player. The intention behind it wasn't saying that the people strongly pushing para are scum as we only had two scum read on the wagon both relatively early on it however I can understand how you may read it as that initally. Honestly, I think what's making this game incredibly aggravating is that you've locked yourself into a mind-set that we're scum without actually taking a step back and reassesing which I urge you to do at some point in the next day or so.

im not obligated to tell you any of my reads im just going to keep them to myself so i can completely change my opinions at what appears to be the drop of the hat and when you call me at it, god, its in my hydra qt. please keep up. Fuck that. if you were town you would have no issues with being up front about your reads instead of hiding them.

#395 hiraki and i agree on something. yet i still find it lacking.

ill take this time to note i said that i hadn't given any of the other hydras besides ethos grief about their play. koc brings up a point in #396 i agree with. start explaining yourself idher.

oh.

Oversoul, I have many reasons for my vote on Quilford and it has little to do with Ethos. I'll throw you all a bone, though, and offer a few:

Quilford, you've asked a lot of questions. What I'm missing are the conclusions.

And the way you talk about people's alignments is sketch.

Thats fine. id like more than a bone please. also ellaborate on the koc scumread.

KoC: Thank you, I suppose. I'm actually unable to sit down for a good hour or so to read all these pages. I will torture myself in a few more days by reading what I've missed but right now I NEED to play from page 15 onwards. Nice to know my swag vote is shitposting... oh but it's SpyreX saying that so yeah, of course he's chainsawwing.

how is voting swag playing from page 15 onwards at all. he has not posted since he put parabollocks at L-1 back on page 5 or whatever. i personally think theres a very good chance hes scum but lets hear your reason for this highly relevant vote to whats going on page 15 and onwards. (dear future mask replacement, i wish you could read his mind and answer this for me... i hope it doesnt keep me up at night)

SpyreX, the 'you're right' bit revolved around his shared suspicion of Kayne with the 'this is why it's happening' involving two of our scum-read being on the wagon though in hindsight sure it's not the reason his wagon is being pushed but that's semantics. I told you to pull your head out of your ass because you're not reconsidering other suspects just tunnelling towards Para and us. You telling us that our thoughts are only from our point of view thus meaningless is proof of this. Do me a favour, read the thread, heck skim it from all I care with the mindset that Para and ourselves are town, then tell me who your leading suspects are.

lol no. its not semantics at all. its completely unrelated to reality. please try to remember that until you came to his defense and he started goin bonkers i had a town read on him and was questioning those on his wagon.

#407 lol

- I really wanted to think that Hiraki was scum after some stuff of his I didn’t like in the random voting, but his behavior around the Parabollocks wagon feels town. I’m having trouble justifying why, tbh, but…first, he joined the wagon, then he unvoted and said that the wagon was probably pushed by scum because it was moving too fast. The whole thing gives me a town vibe on Hiraki.

How is that town. He put him at L-2, waited for Swag to move it to L-1 and then unvoted and said "woh too fast for me!!" thats not town.

So, I definitely want some more Yos. A lot more actually. Especailly in regards to Ethos (note: not Ethos/Ythan parade).

agreed.

hiraki i liked it better when u made that big effort post instead of lots of little posts that dont say anything. siiigh. will we ever be able to reconcile our differences?

[Yosarian2]

Is this a serious question? Cherrypicking ridiculous baseis for reads.

I don't think his comment about oversoul was a ridiculous basis for a read at all. If someone makes a big deal about how they started a wagon, it probably means that they want to take credit for it and think it's a good wagon. That's really just common sense, Ythan, and it's kind of bizzare the way you've spun it up into a huge case.

Well part of the way through my read it looked like the Ethos wagon might be gaining ground on his buddy's but I guess Para really picked up the slack.

unvote vote Yosarian2

Ok, so why are you voting me? The guy I replaced was an idiot, but he wasn't scum.

[Yosarian2]

- I really wanted to think that Hiraki was scum after some stuff of his I didn’t like in the random voting, but his behavior around the Parabollocks wagon feels town. I’m having trouble justifying why, tbh, but…first, he joined the wagon, then he unvoted and said that the wagon was probably pushed by scum because it was moving too fast. The whole thing gives me a town vibe on Hiraki.

How is that town. He put him at L-2, waited for Swag to move it to L-1 and then unvoted and said "woh too fast for me!!" thats not town.

I don't really like his play there, but it doesn't make any sense to me as a scum play at all.

[Yosarian2]

Ok, next step to finding scum is to ISO everyone in the game and try to mark down some thoughts about them, see who jumps out at me. Normal disclaimer, all this stuff may change since the game just started, blah blah blah.

Town-ish

Îdher-Hydra seems to have pro-town motives. Lines like this:

SpyreX, just because parabollocks called you a faggot doesn't make him scum.

Just feel town-ish to me.

Ethos-already explained this

Hiraki- already explained this

Knight of Cydonia-Gut, mostly. Most of his play so far makes sense

Chair: No real problem with their play so far. Suspect list in ISO post #6 looks reasonable, and the description of the thoughts of both hydra heads makes sense to me. Willingness to unvote to hear from para’s replacement seems town-ish.

Null:

Oversoul: No problems with his play so far. Want to hear more from him. His ISO post #6 makes some sense to me.

Ythan: Really don’t know what to think about him right now. He seemed pro-town earlier in the game, but I really don’t at all get his long war with Ethos. Also don’t get the self proclaimed mason fishing. Ythan’s really made a lot of strange plays this game.

kanyeknowsbest - ? I have no read at all on this guy yet.
.
SpyreX-some of his play makes sense, but there’s some weirdness. Spyrex, can you explain why you voted for Ethos?

T-Bone: Has done very little scumhunting Has really not said much yet. I keep forgetting this game is only 3 days long so far, considering all the pages I just had to read, but I’d like to hear more from this guy about who he finds suspicious.

Lurker or V/LA or just hasn’t said enough

The Mask: getting replaced out. Did nothing while he was here. One of the scummier lurkers.

Dramonic: Hasn’t really done anything. Is currently V/LA at goofbash

Untrod Tripod: Has really only made 1 content post so far this game, where he calls
Ythan town and calls Ethos scum. Don’t get a bad vibe from that post, but we need to hear more from this guy.

kunkstar7: Need to hear more from this guy. Is currently voting Mask, but hasn’t commented on most of the stuff going on this game.

Suspicious:

Quilford:
This feels like a false dilemma. (For the newer players here, a "false dillema" is when a person says "either person A is scum, or person B is scum" when there's no reason for that assumption. It's a common scum tactic, since if scum like to keep two townies at each other's throats, and since if the town buys it, they first mislynch one and then when that guy flips town they to mislynch the other one the "one or the other has to be scum" theory.)

I would be surprised if neither Ythan nor Ethos were scum at this point

And the justification for it makes no sense:

Quilford: So are you saying one of them is scum? Which one, and why?

-Amrun

They're doing an excellent job at eliciting emotional responses from each other and I see no reason for town players to do that

You don’t see two town players arguing in an emotional way and really going at each other? That happens in pretty much every mafia game I have ever seen, ever.


Swag: Has done noting all game except this vote for Para:

Para, you've made a lot of unbiased posts, and not very smart moves. You're trying to cover yourself up too hard. Obvious scum is obvious. VOTE: Parabollocks

Para did have a lot of “not very smart moves”, but what, exactally, makes you think that he’s scum rather then just an idiot? What does “a lot of unbiased posts” even mean? What makes his play “obvscum”?

I dislike that Swag has done no scumhunting all game, and then jumps on a bad lynchbait wagon while giving really bad reasons.

I'm going to

Vote:Quilford

. Both Quilford and Swag look suspicious, and I'd be willing to vote either one of them at the moment.

[Hiraki]

hiraki i liked it better when u made that big effort post instead of lots of little posts that dont say anything. siiigh. will we ever be able to reconcile our differences?

You mean, you want me to put effort into this game?

pst i am.

[Parabollocks]

@MOD im still playing, i went v/la.

unvote

[Parabollocks]

OH WOP. I WAS REPLACED. ehhhhhh

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, those in glass houses throw the most stones. (Hint: give actual content before criticizing others' style of play.)

You thnk I don't realize this? I am trying to contribute something, but I am still *very* bad at this game. I am clearly in the company of people who have played this game and know all the in's 'n' out's as well as the nuances of this particular setup. I know it seems hypocritical, especially for someone in my position, to ask people to post more, but I don't do it out of malice. I am sorry if the tone of my post came out as harsh. I didn't mean it to be that way.

Oversoul #268 is [goodposting], I wonder whose alt you are...

Why don't you believe that I am an actual noob?

Unvote Since Para is getting a replacement, we feel like replacement deserves a chance.

Chair, if you thought Para's slot was scum based on his play, why would you unvote? For the sanctity of the replacement? That doesn't sound like very townie behavior. I may be a noob, but I am pretty sure the objective of this game is to defeat all of the Mafia. Why give them a chance to cover their bases and readjust, unless you, like Ethos, feel that Para's /replace is out of frustration.

Both of which deserve a call out - but, not from a scum trying to blend. And, and when everyone went "Ohh no these pages are just Ethos and Ythan duking it out" he went "no, no its not." because it isn't. This is paying attention and pretty solid town.

Umm what? When other town players are calling out the Hydras and the V/LA absence, wouldn't that be an action a scum would want to do? Or are you saying because he didn't parrot what other people said and instead went his own way, he was not acting scummy? And the duking out part was just me.

Quilford:
This feels like a false dilemma. (For the newer players here, a "false dillema" is when a person says "either person A is scum, or person B is scum" when there's no reason for that assumption. It's a common scum tactic, since if scum like to keep two townies at each other's throats, and since if the town buys it, they first mislynch one and then when that guy flips town they to mislynch the other one the "one or the other has to be scum" theory.)

Or that maybe could be just his reads on them. I think you're reading into his post too much.

[SpyreX]

SpyreX-some of his play makes sense, but there’s some weirdness. Spyrex, can you explain why you voted for Ethos?

I dont even know where to begin.

TheMask vote V/la nonsense is terrible.
The pat on the back to para quote when put up against the light of his reads is nonsense.
The offended card when flipping it right back out is the kind of defense-offense dissonance that is scum as all getout.
The "para is town because of his KKB post because KKB is such scum" business when, of that post, there was a fat stack of nothing going on is decision after the fact at BEST and far, far more likely to be scum.
The para defense hooo business built on a house of ohh so flammable wood I just dont get AT ALL.
The hydra shield as an excuse for so much of the above is also maaah.

If I had a bullet.

Hell, of everything he did the ONE thing that doesn't scream murder death is the original oversoul business. That's just raw madness.

Although making me lay it back out like this makes me remember the seething rage

Unvote, Vote: Ethos

[kunkstar7]

I think Oversoul is town too but how do you discern Swag is town?

So I really don't think Oversoul 'claimed' anything. With the 'w00t!' in front of the 'claim' it reads less like "oh I started that wagon I want due credit" and more like "hey I'm a noob and I did something right for once".

Ignores the fact that he earlier stated he had a town-read on Oversoul, doesn't state any reasoning behind it but states disagreement with the reasoning behind our town-read.

spyrex already touched on it but because he disagrees with your reasoning for a town read does not mean he can't think the dude is town.

True but there doesn't seem to be any town motive to try and dissuade someone from a shared town read.

[Ythan]

Is this a serious question? Cherrypicking ridiculous baseis for reads.

I don't think his comment about oversoul was a ridiculous basis for a read at all. If someone makes a big deal about how they started a wagon, it probably means that they want to take credit for it and think it's a good wagon. That's really just common sense, Ythan, and it's kind of bizzare the way you've spun it up into a huge case.

Well part of the way through my read it looked like the Ethos wagon might be gaining ground on his buddy's but I guess Para really picked up the slack.

unvote vote Yosarian2

Ok, so why are you voting me? The guy I replaced was an idiot, but he wasn't scum.

Go figure, you're attacking my attack on you. And calling your predecessor an idiot isn't going to accomplish anything. We all know he was an idiot. You're still scum.

[Ythan]

It looks like it's 5/4 Para/Ethos now. Can we just pick one. They're both scum.

[Hiraki]

Ethos.

Por favor.

[xRECKONERx]

Chair (1): T-Bone
Yosarian2 (4): Quilford, Swag136, Knight of Cydonia, Ythan
Hiraki (1): dramonic
Îdher (1): Oversoul
Swag136 (1):

The Mask

kanyeknowsbest (1): Ethos
Ethos (4): kanyeknowsbest, Untrod Tripod, Hiraki, SpyreX
Quilford (2): Îdher, Yosarian2

The Mask

(1): kunkstar7

Not voting: Chair

Deadline is in (expired on 2011-06-27 21:00:00).
With

17

alive, it takes

9

votes to lynch!
dramonic is V/LA until June 22nd.
Searching for a replacement for The Mask.

[Yosarian2]

Is this a serious question? Cherrypicking ridiculous baseis for reads.

I don't think his comment about oversoul was a ridiculous basis for a read at all. If someone makes a big deal about how they started a wagon, it probably means that they want to take credit for it and think it's a good wagon. That's really just common sense, Ythan, and it's kind of bizzare the way you've spun it up into a huge case.

Well part of the way through my read it looked like the Ethos wagon might be gaining ground on his buddy's but I guess Para really picked up the slack.

unvote vote Yosarian2

Ok, so why are you voting me? The guy I replaced was an idiot, but he wasn't scum.

Go figure, you're attacking my attack on you. And calling your predecessor an idiot isn't going to accomplish anything. We all know he was an idiot. You're still scum.

No, I'm not "attacking your attack on me". And no, I'm not scum. I feel silly saying that, but if the only argument you have is "I'm voting Yos because he's scum", then all I can do is tell you you're wrong.

Now, if you actually want to say what it is that Para did that you think is more likely to come from scum then from dumbass town, then feel free to say so.

[xRECKONERx]

Prodding Swag136, Untrod Tripod, Quilford, and Îdher.

Still searching for a replacement for The Mask.

[xRECKONERx]

saporovirus replaces The Mask.

[Îdher]

Sorry. Ether's at Goofbash, and it's the weekend so I'm getting slammed at work.

In!4 what does skeet do at work

Things I have been meaning to log in and say:

Why in the SAM HELL is Ethos not voting for Quilford?

The other two wagons are terrible. Quilford, why did you leave Quilford out of your "viable wagon" discussion? Why create the false dilemma that everyone else must pick between Yos and Ethos (two bad wagons) when Quilford (good wagon) is equally viable?

KoC wins Fencesitter of the Year award.

Interested in hearing from sapo.

-Amrun

[Untrod Tripod]

Fuck yeah sapo.

I don't think that Yos is worth voting for right now simply because I would like to give him some more time to contribute. Let's allow him to be scummy on his own right rather than lynching him because Para was awful at everything.

In other news I still like my Ethos vote. To be honest (and I've said this in Day 1 of basically every day start game I've been in, and I'll say it again here), we have very little to go on during Day 1. Pretty much everyone has said something about Ethos' alignment so we'd have a lot to gain with a flip. And honestly I'd rather lynch the guy making the most hurr-durr noise than anyone other than claimed scum on a Day1 start.

More later, for I too am slammed with work.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Placing my vote on someone and leaving it there = fencesitting? Cool definition bro.

You should probably re-evaluate that KoC townread.

-Amrun

You should probably come up with some kind of reasoning behind this.
Being in a hydra doesn't mean you get to throw shit around without explaining yourself.

I'm going to keep asking you for a reason for all this backhanded calling me scum until you give me one.

Hey look, I'm having to ask you

AGAIN

for an answer to my question.