Open 316 - Hard Boiled (Day Two)

[neil1113]

/confirm

No avatars eating avatars! This is why I don't have one! For the sole purpose of avoiding avatar abuse! You abusers!

[neil1113]

Grey, you've got to be kidding me! You're FoSing someone for voting before the game started, yet you'd turn around and FoS someone before the game starts? Then you clear Jake because of his anxiety to play the game, but it's okay that he's jumpy to start due to the fact that... he admitted? I hope this isn't how you actually plan on playing this game.

[neil1113]

A massclaim at the beginning of the game? I feel like that'd kind of ruin the game on a lot of levels, plus it'd give the scum the chance to know who to kill. We'd have our Power Roles out'd and most likely gone by Day 3.

[neil1113]

Again, I really don't like the idea of the plan. Dark explained why a little better then I did. It's a good plan, but not a sound one. And with one lucky shot, our vig could wind up dying night 1. Then what Hoopla? Also, what if the vig doesn't exactly know of the pool of people who to vig? Just take a lucky guess and cross your fingers?

[neil1113]

Amrun, I didn't say the vig wouldn't know which pool to vig from. I said what if the vig doesn't have a clear choice, out of the people in the pool to vig? Does he just make a random shot, and cross his fingers?

[neil1113]

I never said it should be stalled, but I am asking for a summary not of the game but of a plan I wasn't around for during it's conception.... Also, the only reason I even ask and refuse to read is because I am against this plan. I am giving you guys the chance to pitch this to me because as it stands I will not be participating.

So, yeah, it's a complex plan, and it took me a while to digest it, too. I wanted to write that summary as clearly and concisely as possible. There's some really smart basic ideas that, if you understand them, makes all the rewordings make sense. Lemme try again:

The PR pool is for town confirmations. If scum counterclaim these, it's disprovable.
The lynch/VT pool is to make sure the vig doesn't get lynched.
The vig/no-claim pool is to give the vig a place to hide from scum nightkills.

Scum can claim (or not claim) whatever they want, but they'll be sorted into one of these pools. Each one comes with its own risk: scum in the VT pool have to worry about getting lynched, and scum in the no-claim pool have to worry about getting vigged.

If that doesn't do it for you, well, feel free to scumhunt, we still need discussion to drive this game.

What's your take on how easy the vig could get lynched / pointed out if all the scum hide in the no-claim pool?

[neil1113]

No, 3/6 split is better. It almost guarantees scum in both pools.

I like this a lot better then 4/5. Also, Muffin, is there a reason you're shushing my point? Or am I overlooking it?

[neil1113]

Okay I'm going to risk looking stupid and probably getting heat from others in this game for "not reading the thread" or whatever, which I'm fine with. Hate me if you want. But I can't quite figure out from the postings between Am and Glow, is the plan a no-go?

[neil1113]

Glow, you keep bringing up the possibility that Hoopla is scum and using this plan to her advantage? In your mindset, how would this plan benefit the scum team, if you were scum? Because I can only write this off as town minded, considering how it turns the playing field to benefit us, and not them? Unless I've missed something?

[neil1113]

I don't need the phony back handed apologies, and I am not here to survive that is where people are wrong. They are upset with me and willing to get rid of me as if it hurts just myself, this is a team game and voting me is putting yourselves down one player who will actively scum hunt and is doing so in the process of all of this-- my refusal reveals a lot and if I am forced to go by lynching then so be it. But I really hope you guys are smarter than lynching someone who disagrees--what motivation would I have to be outwardly against this plan? even still? just to put heat on myself? really...not smart, but I will understand and accept it as stupid play if I have to go and hopefully town will still win.

I for one apologize if anything I've said offended you, or made you think I was upset with you! I'm not at all, and like Hoopla said, I welcome criticism. I had my own when she first mentioned it. (And I still do.) However I believe your input is valid, valuable, and valutatious (that's totally not a word, but I wanted to continue the pattern here..) and I enjoy you playing this game. I for one will fight against your policy lynch, as I don't believe there should ever be a moment where town should policy lynch, especially not a policy other than VI. However, please take note that only one person said they'd be willing to lynch you, and that one person seems to have very little say for the town itself. Which come to think of it, the town itself has been awfully quiet ever since the formation of this plan has begun...

Would it be more beneficial to claim PR instead of specific PR (obv. vig doesn't claim) and then go from there?

I think you're missing the point of the plan. Re-read over it and see why we'd be claiming det. / not det. as the first round.

[neil1113]

Muffin, I'm with you there. I have very little reads, because I feel like this game is going away from normal Mafia to formulate it's new plan. I would rather this game just get on, either with the plan or without it. But I'm tired of spending the past 7 or 8 (maybe more?) pages between three people discussing the plan...

[neil1113]

Neil, we are waiting on jakesh. We might as well discuss while we wait for him to post or get replaced.

Discuss... what, exactly?

[neil1113]

UNVOTE: Neil1113
It was supposed to be a reaction test, but we got really sidetracked, so there never even was a reaction.

To be fair... I didn't even notice you voted for me. Sorry. If you'd like to vote for me again, I'll gladly give you a reaction.

Glowball makes me smile with her style of play, but I think town is wrong to go her direction for today's suspect pool (or in other words, a main wagon on her would be a mistake I believe because I believe her to be genuine town.)

I'm not sure what the case on LittleGreen is, or why people find him/her suspicious? I think I'll have to look over this play slot before I can really comment on it, but I'd like those that are serious about pushing this slot to explain why.

Jakesh I'm pretty sure just dodged the prod, and is lurking. Noted. If you don't have time for the game, why bother playing it in the first place?

Amrun makes me nervous, because she has a "really townie" feel about her. But I'm very tempted to fall into a too townie fallacy with her, so I'm trying not to think about her too much.

Ever since Glow's mention of the possibility of Hoopla being scum and orchestrating this plan, it's got me nervous about the Hoopla slot. I really wish you'd explain to me the benefit to scum this plan would have though Glow, because I just don't see it. And I've tried to imagine it.

[neil1113]

EBWOP: LittleGrey. And her. Sorry. :/

[neil1113]

PS: Oh, neil... You're scum again, aren't you? That sucks. Was hoping for a town game with you.

How'd you know??? What gave it away? Dangitt, I thought I was doing so good too!

Actually no, not this game. So we have a town game together now! However I'm going to be very upset if we lose.

[neil1113]

PS: Oh, neil... You're scum again, aren't you? That sucks. Was hoping for a town game with you.

How'd you know??? What gave it away? Dangitt, I thought I was doing so good too!

Actually no, not this game. So we have a town game together now! However I'm going to be very upset if we lose.

Wait, are you scum? Is this your sly way of getting me in your pocket, so you don't have to worry about me???? Are you trying to get into my head here Muffin?

/paranoia. Thanks a lot Muffin.. :/

[neil1113]

Oh yes, almost forgot to respond to Glow,

Also, Neil your avatar makes ME smile- I want to have all of the Rock's babies!

[neil1113]

Amrun makes me nervous, because she has a "really townie" feel about her. But I'm very tempted to fall into a too townie fallacy with her, so I'm trying not to think about her too much.

What about Hoopla?

Ever since Glow's mention of the possibility of Hoopla being scum and orchestrating this plan, it's got me nervous about the Hoopla slot. I really wish you'd explain to me the benefit to scum this plan would have though Glow, because I just don't see it. And I've tried to imagine it.

I expressed my concern about Hoopla here. ^^

[neil1113]

I'm scum? With Muffin? ... I'd like to hear why?

[neil1113]

I'm pretty sure my post was self-explanatory. If you really need a deeper explanation of it, feel free to let me know.

Grey, now I see why people think you're scummy. Out of the three people you signaled as scum, you picked the one person that is least likely to address your suspicions based on his play this game? I'd have picked Muffin first, since he's active and would be most likely to address my suspicions, then Quilford, because I know Quilfs meta, and I know Quilf will respond if pressured, and THEN FINALLY, if both have cleared their name for the time being in my book, then I'd address Jake. It seems like this post of yours if a false sense of scum hunting, and you just don't really want to be confronted with your reads, so you picked the one person that is least likely to confront you about them and pursued your lynch target on that person.

[neil1113]

@Hoopla....why did you feel the need to reply to Swank?

Because it's a silly thing to say. And I thought it should be quoted in all its glory at the top of the new page.

Why did you feel the need to ask me that question?

I just find that scum tend to reply to things about themselves that didn't require any attention,

it's like they are worried that someone else might agree so they are on the defensive- not to mention your response was just nothing.

I felt the need to ask you the question because that's part of the game.

To be fair, I think this is an excellent point. I know I do this when I'm scum, without even meaning too.

[neil1113]

I'll do quote by quote. Thanks for the case Oversoul, and good try! I especially enjoyed how you twisted my words, and took things out of context like this first quote... let me begin. I'll split this into Spoiler Points, so that it's not one huge post.

Spoiler: Point One

Neil Read:

Okay I'm going to risk looking stupid and probably getting heat from others in this game for "not reading the thread" or whatever, which I'm fine with. Hate me if you want. But I can't quite figure out from the postings between Am and Glow, is the plan a no-go?

Why does it matter if you get heat at this point? If you are legitimate town you wouldn't be scared of such heat. This post shows cautiousness which is somewhat a must for scum.

Amrun's posts here, here, Glowball's post here, and finally Dark Flashlight's post here all caused me to be cautious with my post. It seemed like a response that I could count on would be any of those three saying "Wow, read the thread!" and I didn't want my post to be discredited just because of that like Glowball's posts were almost discredited because Am believed she wasn't reading the thread. I'm not scared of the heat, which is why I said "I'm fine with that. Hate me if you want." Thus, I'm probably going to get heat, but I don't care (or in your words, I'm not afraid.) Which is in almost direct contradiction to your accusation. And with 4 posts, from 3 different people, I think addressing the concern of not reading the thread was valid.

Spoiler: Point Two

Glow, you keep bringing up the possibility that Hoopla is scum and using this plan to her advantage? In your mindset, how would this plan benefit the scum team, if you were scum? Because I can only write this off as town minded, considering how it turns the playing field to benefit us, and not them? Unless I've missed something?

It looks like he is trying to fish for some loophole in Hoopla's plan. The post gives me an anti-town vibe especially with the unnecessary last two sentences.

Why don't you look at it the way it was written? I didn't understand why Glow kept bringing up the chance that Hoopla was scum and using the plan to her advantage. I didn't understand how the plan could've been twisted, so I asked Glow to explain to me how she viewed it, so I can see why she's so suspicious of Hoopla? I don't believe that's Anti-Town at all...

Spoiler: Point Three

Muffin, I'm with you there. I have very little reads, because I feel like this game is going away from normal Mafia to formulate it's new plan. I would rather this game just get on, either with the plan or without it. But I'm tired of spending the past 7 or 8 (maybe more?) pages between three people discussing the plan...

This post seems nervous. Hoopla at this point already stated the fact that using the plan would be much more beneficial to the town than just trying to play normally.

#1. However, Neil wants to ignore this "for the sake of the game".

#2.If he was town, he would go with the plan and ignore the fact that it has taken a while to work out all the kinks.

#3.Also, this is the first time that he makes any recognition that zMuffin is in the game. It almost seems like at this point he is purposely ignoring zMuffin.

I can't defend how you think it seems. However there's two key things I want to address, which is bolded for emphasis.

1. I never said that. I said it's been wasting the day, and I don't want to waste time. Which last time I checked, was a TOWNIE mindset. Not a scum mindset. Which brings me to point #2.

2. I addressed the fact that it was taking up so much time, and wasting our time to actual scum hunt. Which means I was wanting to take note that time was being wasted, and I wanted to use that time to scum hunt instead of talking about a plan that from where Glow was at the time, and where Jake was lurking, looked like it probably wouldn't even happen anyways. So to

directly contradict

you, town would want to address the issue of wasted time, not just "go with the plan and ignore the fact that it's taking a while to work out"... I believe you just slipped and showed your own scummy mindset here. Town wants to scum hunt, not just "ignore" that time is being wasted!

3. This is what bothers me most. You flat out lied here. Because last time I checked (and a REAL ISO check would've showed you this), that this post by me right here

CLEARLY

mentions Muffin, as the

CENTRAL POINT

of the whole post. Did you really overlook this, or are you purposely "missing it" because you know the point would be null and void?

Spoiler: Point Four

UNVOTE: Neil1113
It was supposed to be a reaction test, but we got really sidetracked, so there never even was a reaction.

To be fair... I didn't even notice you voted for me. Sorry. If you'd like to vote for me again, I'll gladly give you a reaction.

Glowball makes me smile with her style of play, but I think town is wrong to go her direction for today's suspect pool (or in other words, a main wagon on her would be a mistake I believe because I believe her to be genuine town.)

I'm not sure what the case on LittleGreen is, or why people find him/her suspicious? I think I'll have to look over this play slot before I can really comment on it, but I'd like those that are serious about pushing this slot to explain why.

Jakesh I'm pretty sure just dodged the prod, and is lurking. Noted. If you don't have time for the game, why bother playing it in the first place?

Amrun makes me nervous, because she has a "really townie" feel about her. But I'm very tempted to fall into a too townie fallacy with her, so I'm trying not to think about her too much.

Ever since Glow's mention of the possibility of Hoopla being scum and orchestrating this plan, it's got me nervous about the Hoopla slot. I really wish you'd explain to me the benefit to scum this plan would have though Glow, because I just don't see it. And I've tried to imagine it.

Probably the scummiest post of Neils. In my opinion.

1.

The reaction part is negligible. I don't see anything inherently scummy there apart from the fact that he can now "prepare" a reaction. Why bother even saying "vote again, i'll give you a reaction" if you already know it is coming...

2.

The first (real) paragraph and the last paragraph focus on Glowball. He *knows* she isn't scum because she isn't on his team, but is willing to keep her around because she makes other townies nervous and apprehensive. If I was in a scum team I would sacrifice her first, seeing as the scum don't get any power roles to lose and everyone is already suspicious of her playstyle.

3.

Again, though he asks Glowball, what mistake could exist for the scum. He really wants to know and this is in

DIRECT

contradiction to his earlier comment saying he wants the game to go "with or without the plan". Why ask that question if you want the game to move forward? You are only impeding yourself by asking another question. In addition, he needlessly adds to the Hoopla paranoia that Glowball legitimately created out of fear. What better way to avoid a mafia murder plan then to peg its creator as scummy?

4.

His LittleGrey comment doesn't give anything of substance here, but his explanation is completely horrible later on in the thread. Plus, he immediately hones in on the fact that people are calling him, zMuffin, and LittleGrey as scum buddies. What do you have to lose here Neil? Those are just suspicions that won't come into play for a while and you can prove your towniness later.

5.

Nothing overtly scummy about his Jakesh comment. Also, Jake is playing the same way in [redacted]. Neil should know that because he is also playing [redacted]. Seems like a fluff comment to give himself credibility when he inevitability goes after the lurker/inactive player for a mislynch.

6.

"Too townie"? Are you serious, Neil? To me this is just fear mongering and fluff to dispel suspicion from himself or another scumbuddy just like the Hoopla comment.

Breaking it down into Numbers again.

1. You really took that statement seriously. I was apologizing for not seeing his vote and not giving him a reaction. I was implying if he had a case, to state it and I'll gladly respond. You really stretched and looked deep into this sentence. I can't tell if you did it out of town, or scum motivation.

2. I can't defend a point that just simply isn't true. I don't "know" if Glowball is town or scum. I'm leaning town due to reads, but if you're implying I know something more, then you're wrong. And I can't defend against that accusation, except by saying I don't know if she's town or scum.

3. First and foremost, this does not contradict my statement. They are two separate points. I asked Glowball why she was so paranoid of Hoopla being scum, and I asked her what flaw could be in the plan because (like others clearly understood here, but you've stretched to try and twist it) if there is a flaw I'd rather us address it here and now, and not just hope the scum doesn't catch it. And how is it needlessly mentioning my thoughts? That's your opinion, and I can't really accurately defend against that. If my thoughts are pointless, then I'm sorry. But I don't see posting a pointless thought as town or scum motivated specifically, and I don't see how you can call it either way. Unless of course you're fabricating a case.

4. I don't even understand this point. You say that the post has no real content, and then go onto to address points that weren't even part of the post you were commenting on?

5. How do you defend against "this is just a fluff comment"? I could say the same thing about this point. This is just a fluff point in which you're making trying to continue your stretching and make me look scummy.

6. I already mentioned the Too Townie fallacy, so I don't understand why you'd bring that up? I simply stated my thoughts on the person I was commenting on. If you don't like it, tough. "I don't see how this could be town or scum motivated specifically, and again I don't see how you could call it either way. Unless of course you're fabricating a case."

Spoiler: Point Five

PS: Oh, neil... You're scum again, aren't you? That sucks. Was hoping for a town game with you.

How'd you know??? What gave it away? Dangitt, I thought I was doing so good too!

Actually no, not this game. So we have a town game together now! However I'm going to be very upset if we lose.

The first part is completely unnecessary. I think this is an allusion to the zMuffinMan/Neil scumteam that he will *definitely* say is sarcastic or such.

Okay. Well you know why you know I'd call it sarcastic? Because it was. And you know it. And I know it. And everyone else who reads it will know it. You know why we all will know it?

BECAUSE IT IS.

Sometimes, things are exactly what they seem. You don't have to stretch or over-analyze everything people post here. That's how mislynches happen, though if you're scum, I assume you wouldn't care and my advice is falling on deaf ears here. Glad you indirectly admitted you knew though.

Now Sarcasm in general I have to ask, how is it one motivated over the other? Like, I'm pretty sure Town uses sarcasm just like Scum do? Actually, Humans use sarcasm in general. Some are more sarcastic then others, because that's who they are. Considering you don't know me, how could you actually make sarcasm a valid scum point against me?

Spoiler: Point Six

Grey, now I see why people think you're scummy. Out of the three people you signaled as scum, you picked the one person that is least likely to address your suspicions based on his play this game? I'd have picked Muffin first, since he's active and would be most likely to address my suspicions, then Quilford, because I know Quilfs meta, and I know Quilf will respond if pressured, and THEN FINALLY, if both have cleared their name for the time being in my book, then I'd address Jake. It seems like this post of yours if a false sense of scum hunting, and you just don't really want to be confronted with your reads, so you picked the one person that is least likely to confront you about them and pursued your lynch target on that person.

1.

How does you knowing Quilf's meta help Grey? At all.

2.

At this point I think he is trying to push a LittleGrey bandwagon either because he knows she is scum and would thus gain townie cred for "correctly" reading her.

3.

However, his answer as to how she is scummy is flimsy at best and is just a filler to get people off his back.

4.

He also indirectly supports zMuffin by saying he is active and will be able to address any suspicions as well as

5.

throws Jakesh unto the traintracks of a Jakesh/Little Grey scum team possibility later on in the game.

Again, numbers.

1. Because I know Quilf, if pushed, will respond out of nature. I'm not sure how you didn't understand this, since I stated it pretty clearly with "then Quilford, because I know Quilfs meta, and

I know Quilf will respond if pressured

".

2. Last time I checked, if I wanted to push a bandwagon, the way to do it would be to place a vote on her. Where's the vote? In fact, a part from that post, I've asked for those who do have cases on her to actually make them because I don't see it.

3. This is your opinion, based off of no facts. It's not a filler, and it's a valid suspicion. It's called, "attacking the Lurker." Look it up.

4. How did I support Muffin in ANY way with the above post? By syaing he's active and will address the suspicions? How does that support Muffin?

5. You have very weird points. I threw Jake under the traintracks because I said he's a lurker, and he shouldn't be pressured when you have other reads that according to his post, look to be on the same exact scummy level? I'm not sure either how I ever implied a Grey/Jake scum team? In fact, the thought never crossed my mind until now. You've stretched a lot with these few points.

[neil1113]

Oversoul's case on neil is quite good. He got several things I hadn't noticed.

No it's not, at all. It's stretching, opinionated (with very little facts), biased, tunneled, and wrong. He had actually only 2 real things that he didn't twist and those things were obvious things that could not be pushed left or right, town or scum, without an actual biased.

[neil1113]

Neil, why are you upset because Oversoul's case is opinion-based? That's what the game is about.

I never said Oversoul's points were invalid and stupid. I admitted two of them were good and I didn't really have much to say to them. However, what upsets me about a case that is purely opinionated, is that opinions can argue all day and still not be any closer to the truth. Perception is a funny thing, but if we try and stick to the facts of what I said, and not what you think I said, or how you think I said it - then I think we could come to a quicker conclusion of rather or not my posts are town or scum motivated.

[neil1113]

Does it matter who goes first between Hider and HT? Like would it really have a significance of difference if the Hider went before the HT, and the other way around?

[neil1113]

Alright so are we going to start the claiming now?

[neil1113]

Waiting for Jake to respond, is it that important to respond? Couldn't we do.. you know... process of elimination? Have everyone claim and if Jake is left, and you only have 2 claimed PR's, then Jake must be the 3rd.

P-Edit, now that I think about it, the problem with this is that if there are 3 PR's, and Jake is one but hasn't claimed, scum can fake claim a PR and practically get away with it for the moment due to the lurker. Would it be a big deal if we moved on to Hider and HT and then all of a sudden get a counter claim of PR's by Jake? While it's not optimal, I don't see it being that difficult to be able to change in the moment depending on how the plan goes...

[neil1113]

Just gonna leave me hanging, Quil...? That's cool. I guess.

Anyway, I have already stated that Neil is scum and one of my reasons is that he has continually

tried to hinder the plan

which I feel like he just tried to do again.

Just wish Jakesh would either replace or ... do anything really.

Last time I checked, "trying to rush things" and "trying to hinder the plan" is contradictory... I'm not sure what you're accusing me of anymore.

[neil1113]

Quilford,

I agree on your points

except for Amrun being scummy.

I understood the point of rushing it now. I apologize, I didn't really think through what would happen if we went on without one person. You're right about one thing, I want this day to get moving. It's been boring so far, and I don't think I've ever been in a game where the whole game basically went on pause because one lurker decided not to play. Unless it was like Ly-Lo or something.

As for the quote above, what points? Quilford didn't make any scum-hunting points, or any points at all actually. He simply posted his reactions and responses. There were no cases made, no points delivered, and no facts stated.

[neil1113]

Need a more replacement, so we can get a jakesh replacement. A side note though, he flaked in another of my games (was lynched just recently for reasons unrelated to his flaking, and flipped VT). So it's not like a scum-lurking tactic. Not to say he isn't scum, but that his inactivity isn't a tell of any sort.

Agreed. He is about to be force replaced in another game that I am in so I don't think scum motives are behind his inactivity, just lack of interest.

It could just be things going on in his life stopping him from playing Mafia, not even lack of interest. But I agree that he's about to be replaced in [redacted] and so I can't really take this as a town tell or scum tell. It's null to me.

[neil1113]

Yes, but he did the posts in order as they appeared organically.

I agree that his method is not very effective, and not one I've seen him employ as any alignment, but that doesn't make him scum. Intent is more important.

It could just be that he's learning and maturing through the game of Mafia, and is figuring out new tactics and ways to play that would make his effort more effective while playing. I don't think it'd be fair to attribute a new playing style that someone brings to the game, due to scumminess (or lack of).

[neil1113]

I'm concerned about the people on the LittleGrey wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: neil1113

Since when was defending someone scummy? And I'm not on the Grey wagon?

[neil1113]

Muffin, what's going on dude?

[neil1113]

I'm concerned about the people on the LittleGrey wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: neil1113

Since when was defending someone scummy? And I'm not on the Grey wagon?

You didn't "defend", you turned into a friggin' CareBear and protected me with your own life.

You're not on the LittleGrey wagon, yes, but Amrun and Swank are and I want to hear their responses to my previous post before I feel comfortable voting Grey again.

You've got to be kidding me? I turned into a CareBear and protected you, thus it's scummy?

And how does my vote have anything to do with the Grey situation, and who is or is not on the wagon???

Quilford, you're not looking good for yourself.

[neil1113]

My turn? Claim: Not PR.

[neil1113]

The waiting game... again... :/

[neil1113]

I just wanted to post in this thread on this account cuz it's weird being a hydra with someone then playing under them.

Who are you, exactly?

[neil1113]

I just wanted to post in this thread on this account cuz it's weird being a hydra with someone then playing under them.

Who are you, exactly?

Are you blind or stupid?

Or it could be I just don't look at Avatars? Is there a reason you had to be insulting, or are you that dense?

[neil1113]

Grey hasn't posted in literally 5 1/2 days...

@Mod: Prod or something again?

[neil1113]

Amrun, I'm really sorry to hear about your father. I'm definitely praying for you and your family as well, and if you can, keep us updated when he's out and better.

[neil1113]

In all honesty.. we've spent two weeks doing little to no scumhunting discussing the plan...

See what I mean? But nobody listens to me!!!

[neil1113]

@Mod - I like that idea, do you need a certain amount of people to agree with that in order for you to make that extension, or is it just something you're thinking about doing anyway unless we have strong objections?

[neil1113]

Can we just lynch Muff--- he's obviously scum, or just annoying town playing against his win condition.

Who would you rather lynch, anti-town or scum? Remember, they aren't always the same thing.

I'm not for policy lynches usually, but there's such a lack of content this game could anyone really make any cases? No pressure or alignment revelations, just waiting and talking about your favorite Disney movie...

[neil1113]

Can we just lynch Muff--- he's obviously scum, or just annoying town playing against his win condition.

Who would you rather lynch, anti-town or scum? Remember, they aren't always the same thing.

I'm not for policy lynches usually, but there's such a lack of content this game could anyone really make any cases? No pressure or alignment revelations, just waiting and talking about your favorite Disney movie...

I am going to assume you think my case on you is still tunneling given the above statement.

What case? I addressed your original suspicions, and then you said "I'm hindering the plan" wait no... "I'm rushing things"... wait, dangitt! No, I'm "hindering the plan!"

If I am indeed bringing delay or obstruction to the plan, which is what hindering means according to Google Definitions, then I could not possibly be trying to rush the plan forward at the same time. So this point cancels itself out. Beyond that, I can't see anything else that I've not addressed? Honestly, I can't see anything that's a case period.

Oh and as for your post here, I just realized you failed to accurately give me any response. You made two posts quoting me afterwards, one in which had nothing to do with the subject and was your vain suggestion that I'm "rushing things" while the first quote was the only quote in which you in any way addressed that I had even made a response.

[neil1113]

Bahhh, failed tags. :/

Fixed them for you :3

[neil1113]

About time... this might go down as the most incredibly boring mafia start ever...

[neil1113]

Tell your friends! Tell your family!

"And tell your husbands too, cuz they b replacin errybody out here!"

[neil1113]

At this rate, if it keeps up, we'll have a whole new game of players by the start of Night 2.

[neil1113]

EBWOP: Start of Day 2, not Night 2 lol.

[neil1113]

It's pretty obvious either Silver or Muffin are the ones lying. I'm pretty confident in Glow and Oversoul as real PR's. So here's something I propose:

Why don't we ask one of them to claim their role? Whichever one we are more confident in being the liar (which seems to be apparent is Silver from the two) and this way we're not outing all the power roles? When said person claims, we see if we have a counter claim. If not, we lynch the other. If we do, we lynch them? And if we're wrong between Muffin and Silver, and neither turn out to be scum or CC'd, then the vig shoots one of the other two, which then gives the vig a 50/50 chance of hitting scum instead of a 1/4 chance. It nearly guarantees a scum kill by the start of Day 2, and it promises at least one scum revealed by Day 2 as well.

[neil1113]

I'm torn because zMuffinMan is being extremely scummy and isn't even trying to change his attitude. I am trying to figure out if he's just being a jerk or acting out like childish scum. Either way it's upsetting because if he is town then he's making this harder than necessary.

I can say from my experience with him, he doesn't normally play this way. I think he might be on my level, and just be fed up with all this "talk about playing Mafia" but very little actual playing... He could be scum that's just fed up with it and doesn't care if he gets lynched or not, or he could be town just fed up with it and doesn't care if he gets lynched or not... lol so the whole tell he's acting like right now is null at best unfortunately.

[neil1113]

So on D3, we have potentially 2 PR's dead, 2 PR's still alive, 1 being the fake claiming scum, AND we THEN take the gambit to see which one is scum and which one isn't? So by D4 according to your plan, we potentially have 4 dead townies, including all 3 of the PR's? How is this a better option then my plan, in which we potentially only have to out one PR, and can exchange a PR for a Scum by Day 2?

[neil1113]

So Mr.Bump, I'm going on a Missions Trip this Sat for 3-4 months, at the very least. I'm going to be extremely busy, and I'm not sure how the internet works over there though I'll be bringing my computer. I'm not going to bother you with replacing me right now, as I won't know how the internet and everything will be until I'm there for a couple days and settled in to see. So I'm going to V/LA Sat. - .... Monday maybe? And then depending on how everything goes, I'll let you know if it's possible or not for me to keep up with this game. I'm posting this here so everyone else will know my status as well in this game. I don't want to leave anyone wondering where I am. But I still should be active till Sat!

[neil1113]

And.... now we're waiting on replacements to catch up. And we need another one for neil.

Correction...

MIGHT

need one for me. We'll see.

[neil1113]

I would like to see Neil in the lynch pool if possible.

Why? What would my lynch give, given the circumstance that I'm town to other people that are in this game?

[neil1113]

Unvote

OK.

I have some thoughts on this.

First off, though, I want to hear whether people think this is two townies in the lynch pool.

I personally think it is.

Which is why I want to suggest this...

One person from the vig-pool volunteers themselves, we lynch them today, no questions asked.

First bolded I understood your point, you don't want a lynch between the two because they are both likely to be townies. But then you ask someone from the vig-pool to volunteer themselves, which if scum were to do that it'd be playing against their win con... So in turn, we'd have now outed both Andrew and Hoopla as confirmed town (or, more confirmed town then others I should say) and whoever the third person that volunteers themselves, except this time we'll lynch this townie. To who would this benefit Muffin? I don't see how it would help town at all.

[neil1113]

Lol so much WIFOM in your plans Muffin. You might want to really reconsider your reads, or rather how you have drawn conclusions.

[neil1113]

VOTE: Muffinman

Do we not realize the deadline is in 4 days? Muffin is the only sure fire lynch I see here, because if anybody deserves to be lynched this game, it's this kid.

As far as other reads, I don't even know how to address this game. This isn't Mafia, this isn't the game played many times before, this is a plan that has completely reinvented the game and not exactly for the better. In the past 32 pages, you know how many reads one could accurately assess from the information given? Maybe... MAYBE 2. Everything else is luck, guessing, wifom, and all around bull crap. This is not how we play Mafia, and I'm fed up with this plan now. Let's start doing something as the town, and stop letting this "plan" hold us back for any longer. Also, I'm pretty sure Hoopla (when Muffin flips scum) is his partner, it makes so much sense it hurts.

[neil1113]

I used to think policy lynches were stupid...and then I met zMuffinMan and I stopped caring whether he was town or scum I just wanted him gone.

My point exactly. >_>

[neil1113]

Muffin can wait. Let's use the plan to our advantage. Hop over to Hoopla.

Not if Muffin keeps playing the way he's playing, he'll be doing the Mafia more of an advantage staying in then any of his other two teammates. Hoopla isn't doing anything anyway, with our luck she'll miss the deadline for the night and we'll have no night kill (besides the vig's.) And if the Vig goes for who we suspect to be the 3rd teammate, I believe this game could be wrapped up before Night 2 even gets here. Lynch Muffin Day 1, Kill 3rd member Night 1, Lynch Hoopla Day 2, and that'd be the game.

[neil1113]

Muffin can wait. Let's use the plan to our advantage. Hop over to Hoopla.

Not if Muffin keeps playing the way he's playing, he'll be doing the Mafia more of an advantage staying in then any of his other two teammates. Hoopla isn't doing anything anyway, with our luck she'll miss the deadline for the night and we'll have no night kill (besides the vig's.) And if the Vig goes for who we suspect to be the 3rd teammate, I believe this game could be wrapped up before Night 2 even gets here. Lynch Muffin Day 1, Kill 3rd member Night 1, Lynch Hoopla Day 2, and that'd be the game.

You're pretty confident for someone who's been whining about how discussing the plan has given us barely any accurate reads whatsoever:

VOTE: Muffinman

Do we not realize the deadline is in 4 days? Muffin is the only sure fire lynch I see here, because if anybody deserves to be lynched this game, it's this kid.

As far as other reads, I don't even know how to address this game. This isn't Mafia, this isn't the game played many times before, this is a plan that has completely reinvented the game and not exactly for the better. In the past 32 pages,

you know how many reads one could accurately assess from the information given? Maybe... MAYBE 2.

Everything else is luck, guessing, wifom, and all around bull crap. This is not how we play Mafia, and I'm fed up with this plan now. Let's start doing something as the town, and stop letting this "plan" hold us back for any longer. Also, I'm pretty sure Hoopla (when Muffin flips scum) is his partner, it makes so much sense it hurts.

I strongly doubt this little speech came from town.
You're super dumb and a liar

Did you fail to read in that very same post that you quoted that "made me a liar" that I mentioned Hoopla and Muffin as a scum pair? How did I lie? What did I say that is a lie? And what did I say that implied I was "super dumb?"

[neil1113]

I did not see that because P-Edit only shows you the last (2?) things posted. Yours was three posted before I had sent mine, so it didn't show me it when I posted I don't believe. I apologize for missing your mistake. Not sure why you feel so insecure about yourself that you feel the need to insult me though?

P-Edit (I noticed some (Glow, and I think Muffin) responded so I'm going to read them, and then see if it's necessary to respond from there.)

[neil1113]

Not sure why you feel so insecure about yourself that you feel the need to insult me though?

I'm sorry, I don't remember hiring you as my therapist.

What's the town motivation for making that statement?

What's the scum motivation for me asking you why you're over-aggressive? (which by the way, is more likely a scum tell then a town tell in my opinion.) If anything it's a null point for me to ask you this, and at best, it's me trying to figure you out and figure out what your mindset is behind your posts, and if it comes from scum or town? Sorry, last time I checked trying to catch scum is part of Mafia? Maybe not in this game though...

P-Edit: Neil is scum flailing? What part of my posts was "flailing" at any form of the definition, and which posts of mine were scum motivated? To say this statement, I'd assume you have proof. Unless of course you're scum, and you're just trying to deflect attention away from yourself, which makes more sense.

[neil1113]

neil, you're scum.

I don't need proof. I'm right.

derp, derp, derp, I must be scum because I don't have proof.

So far no one has taken the time to actually read through my wall post. Cool.

*sigh*

Can we lynch him now?

[neil1113]

Are you serious Muffin? Glow? Quil? Is my mislynch really more important then the fact that I'm

NOT SCUM

?

Okay, we'll play by your game. Let's do this. I'm tired of this game anyways, and it'd probably help from me possibly having to be replaced from the missions trip I'm going on Sat. If this is what it'll take to show you all how wrong you are, so be it. I'm the vig.

UNVOTE: Muffin

VOTE: Neil_1113

Good game.

[neil1113]

neil, you're scum.

I don't need proof. I'm right.

derp, derp, derp, I must be scum because I don't have proof.

So far no one has taken the time to actually read through my wall post. Cool.

*sigh*

Can we lynch him now?

Neill you aren't off the hook- although I know you'd love a mislynch as scum. Calm down-- I am giving Muffin a chance whether he takes it or not is up to him,.

And this is the post that finally made me vote myself out, for the record. I thought if anyone, you at least would have believed I wasn't scum.

[neil1113]

Are you serious Muffin? Glow? Quil? Is my mislynch really more important then the fact that I'm

NOT SCUM

?

Okay, we'll play by your game. Let's do this. I'm tired of this game anyways, and it'd probably help from me possibly having to be replaced from the missions trip I'm going on Sat. If this is what it'll take to show you all how wrong you are, so be it. I'm the vig.

UNVOTE: Muffin

VOTE: Neil_1113

Good game.

Did I EVER, EVER ask for your mislynch?

Nobody will counter claim me. If they do, they are scum. So I welcome them too as well.

Also, no but last time I checked, desperately trying to cast someone in a scum motivated light (which, you twisted my words to do by the way) wasn't playing Mafia. You play to lynch scum and catch scum, not twist things to make someone look scummy for your own personal agenda.

[neil1113]

...

He would most certainly NOT kill Muffin during the night.

If he is SO SURE he's scum then he could. I never said it's a good idea, because it'd be shitty if he was wrong.

Muffin was in the PR group, not the vig group. So I wouldn't have done anything anyways, because me going behind the back of the town to vig him would be just as anti-town (especially if I was wrong) as his play so far.

[neil1113]

(which, you twisted my words to do by the way)

I did not, speak for yourself you terrible hypocrite.

You somehow translated
"Not sure why you feel so insecure about yourself that you feel the need to insult me though?"
into you asking about why I'm overaggressive.

Yeah, no. You should probably remove those quotes from your signature. If you truly are town, claiming out of anger when you're not being lynched is unforgivable and terrible, terrible play. You shouldn't be playing if you can let people get to you like that.

PEDIT: Glowball, what the fuck are you talking about?

Responding in insulting ways, is normally from anger. Anger can be aggression, and in your form it was. I was asking why you're over aggressive, and I wanted to see your response. Instead of responding normally, you decided to twist my words and twist everything back onto me. That, is not town play either. Hypocritical would not just describe me here.

For the record, I claimed because I'm going to be gone most of the day tomorrow and with a little less then two days left till deadline (when I'm able to post tomorrow night I mean) what are the chances we'd be forced to lynch and everyone would've lynched me without me even having a say by then? I at least wanted to show you all your stupid decision before I died.

[neil1113]

Muffin, what would you like from me? Quil, Conventry, and Amrun which do I think is scum? I'm not sure if that's addressed to me, but I'm more focused that Conventry is more scum out of those three possibilities. Is that what you're asking?

[neil1113]

Neil, you're an idiot, really. I expected better from you. I hope you at least listen to the town and vig from the right pool of players, because I will be really pissed off if you continue to troll the game. You made a mistake, don't make another.

Muffinman is obviously town. I'm kind of surprised he is even being considered. He's claimed a PR, so at best, he has a 1/4 chance of being scum.

>:( well at least it eliminates me from being lynch and gives us another confirmed townie.. at least until night. I don't think it really matters if I even try to vig someone, considering I'm going to be dead tonight anyways. So all I have now is a vote.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Coventry

Let's do this.

[neil1113]

Sorry Hoopla...

Andrew is at L-2? So is Andrew the choice of the town, and not Coventry?

[neil1113]

OHRI-

Take me with you, niel. DO IT.

I really don't think I can, if I'm dead. Plus, I don't agree that you'd be the best vig kill. I don't have you pegged as scum. The only way I'd do that is if the town agrees it's best.

[neil1113]

do you want me to vote coventry?

vig neil or chkflip or quilford tonight,.

Seriously?

This guy doesn't even bother to read the thread. I'm not sure if he's actually even playing this game. I can see why he's the leading wagon, and I'm tempted to switch my vote over.

[neil1113]

Avoid... temptation... just pretend he's not in the game.

That's not hard to do. Just ignore one post every 20 pages...

[neil1113]

To be honest, my vig desires right now are Andrew, Amrun, and Darkflashlight (where has he been by the way??)... I don't like how Dark and Am have basically ridden the shadows...

But wait, this will suck. So if I'm targeting a townie, the scum might leave me alive? But then if I'm alive on Day 2, wouldn't I be a sure fire lynch suspect? This is my paranoia sinking in now...

[neil1113]

Hello guys, I just got internet back. I'm here in Joplin now. I caught up the past few pages and all I can say is dang... But I guess now would be a good time to explain what I was thinking.

One Tracker OR Vigilante

I put a lot of faith in two things by claiming Vig. 1. I knew I could waste the day. 2. I'm sure I could've pushed the heck out of a crap case to get everyones attention away from my partners and mislynch. It was working to some degree, with a little bit of fire added here, a little bit of fire added there, and a little bit of fire added to every other case people wanted to push. and 3. Everyone surrounded around the idea that we had a vig, I started to think, and even bet that we didn't. However if we did, at night I was planning on killing either Amrun or Andrew as the mystery spot that I couldn't read, in which case would've been the vig and made Day 2 a WHOLE lot easier.

Silver, with him confusing the PR pool, would've kept the next few days busy while we eliminated the next few people for the nights, and with one or two already believing Silver as town, I figured we could push this at least for 2 more game days, and by that time we'd be in a very very good spot. With me still being alive, and claiming who I'm going to kill as the "vig" before every night phase, I could state that I've been left alive because I kept picking town targets.. darnitt! I was pretty sure, at least to a couple people here, me still being alive would've secured my spot as town while for others, that genuine suspicion would rise again but it's nothing I couldn't deal with.

With my Vig claim however, I tried as hard as I could to make it look like natural panic and not planned mischevious works. And I figured I could try and play the natural noob card like I did at the beginning with my innocent questions towards the plan (lol), and apologize for "being such an idiot" and claiming the way I did. The only thing that could've ruined my plan, a part from there being an actual vig, is if the Tracker counter claimed. Still though, there would have been some benefits.

Unfortunately though, with there being a Vig, and me dying (and being without internet) before the start of Night One, and not being around to help out with the defense of Coventry, I lost an opportune chance to help my team and thus wound up costing them the game instead. Eliminating two / three of us Day One just kicked our own plan back in our faces, and left our final partner in a very, very unfortunate light. So I apologize for that. I didn't count on not having internet...

Other then this, good game everyone. Oh and I've been wanting to say something since the very beginning... and this is meant from the bottom of my heart, and I speak on behalf of my team as well when I say this...

FORGET YOU, AND FORGET YOUR PLAN TOO HOOPLA! UGH!

You put is in a bad position with that. Either way, I bow out of respect for pushing our hand. I tried to position us so we weren't in such a bad light but I failed and cost us the game. Oh well.

[neil1113]

Neil, there was always going to be a vig. Why wouldn't you expect the vig to shoot you, as I did?

No, in the beginning it stated there is either a Vig "or" a Tracker. Or being the operative word here.

[neil1113]

I understand Neil, but it's up to the PLAYER to choose Tracker or Vig it is NOT picked by the Mod like Psych or Detective. So it's kind of assumed that we had a Vigilante because who really picks Tracker? Vigs are much more useful to town

Oh. Misread that. Crap.