Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Battle Mage]

I suppose i'll offer a courtesy

FoS: Yosarian2

for inconsistency of argument. Why are you attacking Tripmywire for something (admittedly i hadnt noticed this) that i am equally guilty of?

How is it "the same thing"? Yes, you and tripwire both attacked Incognito, but your attack seemed like it might have had pro-town motives behind it. It looked like you were actually reading Incog's post and questioning his logic, while Trip just looks like a scum who's doing fake-scumhunting and planting a vote for no real reason.

That isn't what you said, is it?

I really don't get why he's attacking incog here...are you attacking him just because you don't agree with his logic on Haylen?

Whilst you've impressively circumvented my point, i must ask for some more detail, because you yourself allude that you have been less than forthcoming till now. Why does my attack seem protown, and his seem scummy? And perhaps more importantly, why did you think this wasn't worth explaining in the first place? I do hope you weren't fake-scumhunting and trying to plant a vote with no real reason... haha

Also, Trip is trying to have it both ways on pretty much every wagon in the game, and is generally acting like scum. There's more then one reason he's my main suspect right now. Don't write him off as town just because he agrees with you, BM.

With all due respect bro, i haven't "written him off", but we can only lynch 1 person per day, and today it isn't going to be him. And dont think you can palm me off with "is generally acting like scum" as if that's any kind of explanation at all. I know you're better than this, which is why atm i'm comfortable considering you likely scum.

I'd like to see Yos explain why Incognito's diabolical logic against Haylen is not scummy.

Hmm? I don't think it is scummy. He pointed out she's not acting or thinking like she has acted in other games in the past when she was town, and gave links to demonstrate; that's a pretty reasonable meta-argument. Not an especially strong argument, but fine for the early stage of day 1.

Lovely, but this was actually the one part of Incognito's post that i didnt take issue with. *facepalm*

He's also saying that Haylen-town tends to meander all over the place and generally do weird stuff, while Haylen-scum is more calm and controlled. That's probably a true meta of her, based on what I've seen. Haylen is a stronger scum player then she is a town player; not that she's a bad town player, but she's won, what, 3 games as SK in a row or something?

At the time Incognito made his post, Haylen had not posted nearly enough to make any kind of macro-analytical (botch) judgement of her alignment. I think in assessing Haylen's actions, meta is a very weak indicator compared to simply comparing it to her personal life. I'm not likely to be engaging in any meta discussion of Haylen. But if you do intend to continue in meta discussions, please at least try and look like you aren't taking everything at face value.

Please look at post #10 of my iso, and tell me whose side you take on the first paragraph.

Finally, id like to see him give comment on Medicated Lain.

Hmm? Don't really have much of a read on her yet. She hasn't done much so far, but that was also true of the last game I played with her, and she was town then.

Why her?

I'd venture i don't need to answer questions you should be able to answer yourself by reading the thread.

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2

Let's turn up the HEEEEAAAAT!

BM

[camn]

Listen, TripWire.. About your "problem":

I am against meta arguments in general. I hate them from others... AND when I hear them coming out of my own mouth.
But in THIS game, the only reason I mentioned my previous games at ALL is because Incog had actually voted me using ONLY meta as his reasoning. So I brought COUNTER EVIDENCE.

I didn't open that line of reasoning. So there
My argument was not "omg I do this as town"... But rather it was "your meta case is flawed and out of date, incog".
If anything, I was pointing out why simple meta is NOT useful... Since I pointed out myself doing it AS SCUM as well as doing it as town.

Does that make sense?

[camn]

Whoa.. Yos-lynch Day 1?
I don't know if I can cope with that.
It's like trying to kill God or the Devil or something to me. I gotta work up my courage.

Can't we lynch a scummier, newer player?

[Battle Mage]

Whoa.. Yos-lynch Day 1?
I don't know if I can cope with that.
It's like trying to kill God or the Devil or something to me. I gotta work up my courage.

Can't we lynch a scummier, newer player?

I know, i know, but i just cant see him as town atm. If we're gonna lynch someone newer, then we're still looking at Incog and Medicated Lain. The latter hasnt really posted enough to be >90% though. What were your thoughts on Incog again?

BM

*Plus lynching Yos-scum Day 1 would be pretty epic lol

[Magua]

@Bvoigt- gut, guess, lurker

@Magua- One minute prior to the posting time of post 184. Which person do you most object to on the list?

P-edit: I copy/pasted the time from my post, and subtracted the one minute it took me to write the post. (See response to Magua).

I understand that I'm already voting you, so there's really not much more that I can threaten you with, but I feel that your responses have passed the line from snarky town, passed useless town, and entered into downright obstructionist town.

So, last time:

What did Pine do that caused you to move him from "needs more info" to "scum"?

[Yosarian2]

Whilst you've impressively circumvented my point, i must ask for some more detail, because you yourself allude that you have been less than forthcoming till now. Why does my attack seem protown, and his seem scummy?

Circumvented your point? I answered your point.

Don't get me wrong, I think Incog is probably town here, but Trip's attack on him was much worse then yours.

This was your post:

Trip, Haylen is obvscum because she's pretty obviously making up stuff as she goes along. The meta thing was one piece of evidence, but if you read along with my post 14 you'll see me pointing out more of her making stuff up as she goes along too.

The other reason why I think Haylen is obvscum has to do with meta, which I don't expect you to know about -- Haylen tends to get much more emotional and all over the place as town but in this game she seems fairly stable, which is scummy for her. Plus there's the fact that everyone and their mother hasn't attacked her yet, which would have happened already if she was town.

Explain how this logically follows. You seem to be suggesting that Haylen-scum would not be bussed/distanced from on Day 1. Given that you presuppose that she is lynchbait as town, i'd say the opposite should be true. Haylen-scum would get the stink bussed out of her in the early going to take the heat off later, assuming her partners weren't complete novices.

On the topic, i dont know why you feel confident to draw the conclusion she is "stable" and not "all over the place" when she hasnt said a bloody thing yet. And reading over your post again, i realise that your reasoning for suspecting Haylen actually has no substance whatsoever. So please, please, please, please, explain to me, why you feel that somebody you admit yourself is a pretty easy mislynch at the best of times, is deserving of your vote today?

In your first paragraph, you question his logic, you ask him questions, you get down into the details and try to figure out what he's thinking. I think you misunderstand his point about Haylen being voted, but that's an understandable mistake on your part. You then ask questions about what he's doing and how he came to the conclusion about Haylen's play.

You are questioning specific points of his analysis here; the meta, the "stable" stuff, trying to get him to explain in more detail and defend his argument against you here.

This post looks to me like you might be a townie trying to find out information.

On the other hand, this was Trip's vote on Incog:

For example, if I said something like "Haylen is obvscum" (which, I should add, she pretty much is)

I never got a scummy vibe from her so I've been looking into this. You're saying she's obviously scum because of the inconsistency you pointed out with another game? I kind of mentioned it earlier, but at first I had a feeling from your posts that you were trying to toss out ideas to see what would stick... and then you rolled dice for your decision. Also, Haylen's "bandwagon" on you at the beginning was obviously not serious, but you reacted it to as if it were. I really don't believe there is anything scummy in the inconsistency you are basing your case on... I only read town things from Haylen and your belief that she's obvscum surprises me. Or am I taking the definition of 'obvscum' too seriously?

Unvote, Vote: Incognito

[/quote]

Now that's a much weaker vote. He doesn't really ask Incog any questions, or really seem to think about the reasons Incog is attacking Haylen here at all. "You're trying to toss out ideas to see what will stick" is a terrible argument to make against someone early on day 1. He vaugly says that he dosn't think the inconsitancy in Haylen's meta isn't scummy, but dosn't say why he dosn't think it, and doesn't say why he thinks Incog is scummy for thinking so. Nothing in that post really sounds like a case; it's a series of disjointed thoughts, none of which really seem to be probing for information or making an argument that Incog's play is more likely scum then town.

And then when asked about his incog vote, his response becomes even worse:

Well, I was still going on my random vote and since you're now my #1 suspect why wouldn't I vote you? A quick review reveals it became the only vote on you at the time so it's not like it was too threatening. You seriously voted me for just being online when the PMs sent out, and you rolled dice for another vote... I don't see it being all that radical by comparison.

He's trying to downplay the importance of his vote. He's doing everything he can to imply that his vote on Incog is meaningless and shouldn't be worried about. That's not what you do when you actually think that you're voting for a scum; you try to pressure them, you try to get other people to agree with you. It looks like what Trip wants here is for everyone to just forget about his vote and ignore him.

So anyway, BM, what's with this whole consistency argument? Trip made a scummy vote for bad reasons, and then tried to downplay it's importance in a scummy way. You made a logical vote for completly different reasons. I don't at all get why you're trying to use that as an argument against me; i'm not saying "voting for incognito is a scumtell", I'm saying that that vote, specifically, was scummy as well.

And perhaps more importantly, why did you think this wasn't worth explaining in the first place?

I did explain why Trip's vote was scummy in the first place, I thought. I think this is the third time I'm explaining it.

At the time Incognito made his post, Haylen had not posted nearly enough to make any kind of macro-analytical (botch) judgement of her alignment. I think in assessing Haylen's actions, meta is a very weak indicator compared to simply comparing it to her personal life. I'm not likely to be engaging in any meta discussion of Haylen. But if you do intend to continue in meta discussions, please at least try and look like you aren't taking everything at face value.

(shrug) I'm not saying you should AGREE with it; Haylen's really not one of my top suspects right now anyway. I am saying that Incog is making sense, and seems to be playing in an aggressive and pro-town way.

[Battle Mage]

Yos, the reason we're having this conversation is because you have, on two occassions, failed to explain your position to my satisfaction. If you make comments without full explanation, my obvious disposition will be to assume you do not have an explanation or you don't wish to be rooted down to an opinion, both of which are anti-town. Your original post appeared inconsistent because you provided no comment on me whatsoever. In your supplementary post you clarified somewhat, but again didn't fully explain your thoughts on the brunt of my (fairly brief) reasoning. If there isn't an issue with you being inconsistent, there is certainly an issue with you not being forthright with information. I do appreciate your prompt effort to reply and feel like we're actually making progress.

1 further question:

You say i misunderstood Incognito's point about Haylen not being voted. How so?

I will hopefully have time to Iso Incog tomorrow and we can reopen the discussion of how protown he is then. In the meantime, i'll cut you a little slack.

Unvote

BM

[Green Crayons]

I'm basically saying that I never fully believe power role claims or claimed cop results because there's always something, somewhere that could make it false ie godfather, scum fakeclaim ect.

So what does that have to do with the section of the game that Incog linked to for a meta argument?

On the 'convulated' thing you quoted. I was trying to explain things from various yos-pov's and concluded that from a scum point of view, what he was doing didn't make sense. Scum wouldn't want to connect with their partner because it's likely to backfire later in the game when everyone starts looking for relationships, Yos has played enough games to know that. If you want a simple explanation: Yos is ancient, ancient people are wise and know what not to do.

This still doesn't make any sense. At this point you believe camn is town. You're trying to explain things from a Yos POV, but you're doing it as if camn is scum.

---

I disagree with the above quote. I will explain on Day 3 if i am alive then and anyone cares to ask.

What is this supposed to mean?

---

If the town was overwhelmingly FOR it, I would have gone for it. But meh otherwise.

So how do you feel about name claims in general?

---

@Green- Umm, there is a reason all the crossed out crap was crossed out. That was a semi-sarcastic response to Magua.

A "semi-sarcastic" response -- alright. So which parts were not sarcastic in how you feel about Pine and camn?

---

about green crayons: I think he is scum. The more I look, the more I wonder about you, crayons.
question: Why did you wait so long, over a day and multiple posts in between talking about trip at all? You made no mention of him, and then suddenly bring it up and kind of bash on it for a few posts, and move away again.
Looking at crayons over all trend, this is what happens, he seems to be making a point of addressing folk as much as possible... Magua, trip, me, Yos, pine, haylen, camn, pere. I guess to me, it feels like attempts at seeming active and keeping in touch with the town, without actually doing anything.
I understand not throwing a vote around, but you sure do question, interrogate, suspect people quite a lot for not having moved your vote from the very first one of the game.

- "Waiting" denotes that I was expecting to talk about Trip at some point. I was interested in Trip's back and forth with Incog re: his delayed post, lost interest in him after that, and spoke up again only when he posted my very thoughts re: Pine. At what point does it look like I'm "waiting" to talk about Trip?
- Do you think my questions have been fruitless? I know they have helped me. I like to think others are at least getting some sort of benefit from my questions just like I'm benefiting from other players' questions/answers. Is this doing nothing?
- My vote has moved. It went from Magua to BM. Post 157 explains why I voted for and why I kept my vote on BM. I'm keeping my vote on BM because something about his posting really strikes me the wrong way (still trying to come down on this). I may move my vote, but I don't see a reason as of yet.


---

Huh. Are you claiming that your "yos suspicions" were intended to be serious now?

Really not liking this, gc. First you attack me for a really silly reason (which was basically "Yos said something that someone else had already said"), but fine, it was early day 1, I figured you were just trying to get a reaction and get something going, so I responded to you. Then you denied that you'd been attacking me at all, while attacking me further, and then after spinning up three attack posts on me out of nothing, you attacked me for defending myself against your attack posts ("104 and 105 come across as scatterbrained and defensive"). Now you're trying to get support for this attack by asking other people about it.

Whole thing looks like a textbook example of "how to push a bad lynch against someone when you don't have a case against them".

Heh.

- I claimed my first "exploratory" post (here) was not an attack. The fact that you're throwing out a one-liner to bloat that single comment into my subsequently filled-out suspicions (here and here) is sloppy re-envisioning of what happened. I also never claimed my suspicions weren't serious, just that it wasn't an attack -- but here you are re-imagining what I said so as to apparently provide yourself with easy ammo to shoot down legitimate suspicions.
- I originally questioned you for providing filler in an attempt to look like you were contributing. You then tried to defend it as if you were adding something entirely new to the conversation (even though it wasn't), that it was getting you the "inside scoop" re: camn's intentions (even though it was a dead-end post), and that it was preemptively killing name claims (even though 6 folks had responded negatively to the idea and there was no reason to believe that this was going to happen). That's when my suspicions really ramped up, and this is the bulk of what I wanted people to comment upon.
- Posts 104 and 105 come across as scatterbrained and defensive because

all of your defenses are answered by page 3 posts

. It looks like you didn't even read page three when 104 and 105 came around. The fact that you apparently think your 104 and 105 are legitimate in the face of page 3 directly countering your points is astounding.
- My asking other people's input is because I'm my own worst critic. I want other's input that

isn't

from the person I find suspicious. That is, to make sure that my suspicions aren't entirely off-base. I'm not finding your criticism of me failing to be cocksure all that convincing.

[Yosarian2]

If you make comments without full explanation, my obvious disposition will be to assume you do not have an explanation or you don't wish to be rooted down to an opinion, both of which are anti-town. Your original post appeared inconsistent because you provided no comment on me whatsoever. In your supplementary post you clarified somewhat, but again didn't fully explain your thoughts on the brunt of my (fairly brief) reasoning.

(shrug) It wouldn't have occurred to me to compare him to you when I first made the post. He made a scummy vote, and then a scummier attempt to "soften" it, and when I ISO'd him his post quality all game was low, so I voted for him. I wasn't especially thinking about you at all at that point; your incog vote didn't strike me as scummy, nor did your other play so far this game.

You say i misunderstood Incognito's point about Haylen not being voted. How so?

Not really sure I should be answering this question rather then Incog, but:

...Plus there's the fact that everyone and their mother hasn't attacked her yet, which would have happened already if she was town.

...Haylen-scum would get the stink bussed out of her in the early going to take the heat off later, assuming her partners weren't complete novices.

It sounds like what Incog was saying was something like "Haylen always gets run really quickly as town, because of weird play on her part when she's town, but really doesn't gets lynched as scum because she doesn't do that." Silly, but probably has a grain of truth to it. Also I thought this was at least partly joking.

It sounded like you read that as him saying that if she was town the scum would be trying to lynch her, vs. the scum bussing her as scum, but I think that was a misunderstanding. Unless I'm misunderstanding one or both of you myself. (shrug)

[Green Crayons]

"You're trying to toss out ideas to see what will stick" is a terrible argument to make against someone early on day 1.

For reference, this is part of your criticism re: Trip's vote on Incog. In rereading the thread, the Trip portion quoted above reminded me of Pine's criticism of Incog in Post 111. Not a mirror image, but certainly within the same field of criticism.

With that in mind, would you agree or disagree that their criticisms of Incog are comparable? If they are comparable, do you find Pine's observation better than/worse than/equal to Trip's?

[Yosarian2]

"You're trying to toss out ideas to see what will stick" is a terrible argument to make against someone early on day 1.

For reference, this is part of your criticism re: Trip's vote on Incog. In rereading the thread, the Trip portion quoted above reminded me of Pine's criticism of Incog in Post 111. Not a mirror image, but certainly within the same field of criticism.


With that in mind, would you agree or disagree that their criticisms of Incog are comparable? If they are comparable, do you find Pine's observation better than/worse than/equal to Trip's?

Trip's comment was terrible because throwing out stuff to see if something happens and to try and get the game moving is what a townie should be doing at the start of day 1; using that as a scumtell is just backwards. I don't think that's what Pine was saying. I don't really like Pine's attack there (it's vauge, and I don't see how Incog was "too eager to make a good impression" or whatever), but it's not scummy the way Trip's was.

In general, Pine feels town-ish to me. The biggest vibe I get from his posts, especally the whole camn debate, is the "townie pissed off that people are still questioning him on something he thinks is obvious" vibe, with a little "rightousness indignation" tossed in for good measure. I could be wrong, scum can fake that kind of thing, but I don't really think that's all that likely here.

[camn]

@GC: I like flavor-games... and I like breaking setups. I have had some success with cracking scum fake-claims... so I kind of like name-claims. I wish we could all play in character. That would be awesome.

That all said.. I recognize the strategic downfall of early massclaim, especially given the fact that mods generally are not balancing for town with this in mind.
I still just think more flavor = more fun!

@ Yos: I could maybe see your view re: Pine... if he had ever shucked it off and started playing as town. But I have yet to see that. As far as I can tell, he is ignore-ignore-hope-it-will-go-away.
Do I move on from a player like that?
Part if me is inclined.. since it is boring. But then what? I have open questions. He has no answers.

[Pine]

I'm V/LA, camn, how much detailed activity do you want from me?

I get home Tuesday evening. You'll see a big up-tick in activity then.

Also, you seem to define "pro-Town" as "doesn't suspect me". Not an encouraging attitude, though I'm starting to see you as less likely to be scum despite it.

[Pine]

What open questions for me do you have? It's very hard to go archive-spelunking from my phone. Your moronic "dare" doesn't count.

[Battle Mage]

At first it was because of his weird Yos joke (being second after Magua) and because of his strange posting. My vote started out as a early-D1 thought of it being a scum putting on an attempt to look super Loose And Crazy! (Apparently he just posts... that... way.) Then it became a lurker vote. Now it's a meh vote, because I can't get a read off of that type of posting. I mean, seriously -- he's even done the "joke about being a scum" on page six, which is something for which I always vote (and it's even done on page six!). That's just frustrating.

Only just spotted this little fella! I suppose the only appropriate response is "WTF?" You seem like you're actually scumhunting, like you actually have some idea what you're doing, even if i can't necessarily relate to your line, and all i'm getting from the above, is you voted me because you dont get my sense of humour, and since then have tried to find any excuse to keep your vote on. I'm sure if you're looking for a meta on me, you can ask Camn, Haylen, Yos etc.
I feel i've been doing pretty well here so far, so i'm not particularly sympathetic to a self diagnosed "meh vote" that is entirely based on my personality...

I hate to keep flogging a dead horse, but what is your opinion on the emotiveness of Yosarian2?

BM

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- I read the thread, and re-read it often. On day1 with 9 pages, if your looking for something more indepth, then maybe we can work out a deal.

@Magua- Before I answer that, I'm curious as to why your so insistent on it.

@Green- Pine is a hyper aggressive tunneling player who takes offense easily. While that has no bearing on his alignment, it does affect how he plays. Since I am somewhat put off by that playstyle, he usually trips scummy for me from the start. But, rationally and logically, no bearing on alignment. So, right now he's a straight null read alignment wise.
Camn I've only played one game with. So I base anything now on her actions. She's active, she's coherent, she's not belligerent. I like the playstyle. However, no bearing on alignment..etc. So, instead of thinking town like I want to, I have her as a null also.
And the interactions between the two of them haven't changed my opinions above, it's mostly how I arrived at them.

[bvoigt]

I'm not really seeing the Yos case. He's probable town at this point. What do you guys think of Peregrine?

What sort of deal?

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!
Otherwise, analysis starts as we get more data, and as the game progesses, like in a normal game.

[bvoigt]

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!
Otherwise, analysis starts as we get more data, and as the game progesses, like in a normal game.

Er...even if you did hit scum Day 1, it could still be bussing. Couldn't you examine posts closely without my guarantee of voting with you?

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- What tends to happen is that I vote the person I find scummiest, while everyone piles on a town mislynch. Then, the next day, I get accused of Nader voting since I did want to lynch the guy because all the cases were not really lynch worthy.

But, if good things happen then maybe I'll do it anyway.

Why bother bussing day1? Actually, why bother bussing at all? I've only ever seen it happen accidently- never by design.

[Magua]

@Magua- Before I answer that, I'm curious as to why your so insistent on it.

My insistence on getting an answer is directly related to your insistence on you not giving me an answer.

[Haylen]

@ Crayon's - I was given an example of how my meta had changed and what everyone can pretty much expect from me in this game.

I'll be looking at Peregrine soon to establish a better read on him. I'm liking BM at the current time.

You should know my playstyle by now; when I see something that I notice as being off, I prod and probe it to try and find out what's going on.

Further, why would I take all this time and energy to look into current meta when I'm not even pushing for camn's lynch at this point? That'd be dumb.

I take note of the backtracking here. Researching current meta in a meta argument seems to be quite important in the 'prodding and probing' of things.

This still doesn't make any sense. At this point you believe camn is town. You're trying to explain things from a Yos POV, but you're doing it as if camn is scum.

I wrote what I did, it makes perfect sense to me but I can't explain it any simpler. I'll try again though, I was trying to explain that it you couldn't have a scum camn/ scum Yos team because the nature of the connection there wouldn't make sense. I was also taking buddying ect into account aswell and that it didn't make sense from that point of view either.

Bvoigt voted me because I explained my vote for camn? ...yeeeeees...

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!

I really hope you don't actually expect this to happen lol.

MehPlusRawr needs to get a move on.
I'm leaving camn alone for now.
Will re-read the Yos-hate from BM if I have time today, If not it will come in the evening tomorrow. Yos/Crayon's interaction is a must read too!

not that she's a bad town player, but she's won, what, 3 games as SK in a row or something?

6 out of 7 games as SK, for the record. NOT THAT I'M KEEPING COUNT! (yes I am, it boosts my moral when I mess up -_-)

[bvoigt]

@bvoigt- What tends to happen is that I vote the person I find scummiest, while everyone piles on a town mislynch. Then, the next day, I get accused of Nader voting since I did want to lynch the guy because all the cases were not really lynch worthy.

But, if good things happen then maybe I'll do it anyway.

Why bother bussing day1? Actually, why bother bussing at all? I've only ever seen it happen accidently- never by design.

If I agreed to follow your plan, it would be a perfect situation to bus, since I'd be following your vote for the rest of the game.

[Battle Mage]

i think Bvoigt, the protown thing to do, would be to give Peregrine the benefit of the doubt. However, atm, i'm becoming more and more amicable to lynching him today, which negates the whole issue lol. Scum never bus? Not much! *cries with laughter*

BM

[Medicated Lain]

Sorry about the delay there. I ran off into the night following a bug and got caught up in the wrong crowd. Will be a bit busy for the rest of the weekend, but much easier to follow along from where I am. You guys are a fun town!

Incog: I can see your case about Haylen, but I find it very interesting that the same point you were using against trip, is completely oppositely true of Haylen. You stated that Trip's lack of saying anything while being on is a sign of holding out on posting to be careful, while Haylen is very obviously taking no concern at all. Trip's back from a long hiatus with me, and is also generally picking up the game all over again. Why is it that you would suspect such a high level of play from him, yet have no such expectations from Haylen?

camn: Your call for a mass claim was terrible... then you went on to say you know it was scummy, it was to draw people out, and now you discuss the benefits of it again? I don't understand this at all. Mass name claiming in a game like this may be fun for some folk, certainly posts could be more interesting, but for game play, it would be so much more fun for the mafia, who would hold the biggest advantage in town. Also, for being very strongly against using metas, you certainly went far out of your way to use your own to prove what you were saying before.

fos:camn

Haylen: everyone sure has a lot to say about Haylen. I don't think the play is good, but it seems just less attentive to what is going on, if you ask me. I'd call it inefficient/anti town play, but not enough right now to categorize it scummy, but I want to hear more from you Haylen.

Battle mage: I like the thinking here, and agree with a lot of it. I'm so sad you'd be willing to look at me day one! I came back to this site with Trip, this is only my second game back, yet you are willing to give him a free pass, but I get none? I feel unloved

trip: Oh man, I finally get to talk about you! Trip can't be scum this game, because I'm not! (last game we played together reference)
Well, putting that aside, the first few posts felt a little funny to me, but I really like the case against Incog, it looks flawless to me.

Yos: Mixed readings. Don't feel like he's a good lynch today because his movie quotes are the best in the town! Definitely not understanding the trip case though. BM's point about yos pinpointing on trip is dead on, and trip's case on incog looks pretty solid. Incog doesn't seem scott-free.. That's a fair amount of disagreement...


More on green crayons: Everything about the situation with Magua sits so wrong with me. If Magua hadn't of been referencing an old game, would it really make sense to pull someone with a day kill ability out on day one? They're obviously not scum, because giving scum a day kill ability in this game.. I just don't see that happening. Does it make sense to direct someone with a day kill on day one? I'm thinking about an argument that came up in the other game I'm playing now, about how day one is the worse day for the town. We're in day one, there was no night one first, which means the only people that have information on other people in the game are the mafia, and I guess if there's a mason group... but the only one we can be certain on, is the mafia. That means they hold a higher amount of information than everyone else, and thus have a higher ability of manipulating the town. So why is it, that it makes sense for you to direct someone who you think is a day killer to make an extra kill on the day that we are most blind in our abilities to judge the information we see?

All this being said, the only person you've voted for this whole game is Magua himself, yet you throw questions and comments in every direction. You talk about other players pretending to contribute, while not actually. But I think you are more guilty of this than any others here.