Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[bvoigt]

Wait a second. Peregrine has been voting Haylen almost the entire game (despite admitting that the case on her is "very weak," and saying the vote was for "discussion's sake"). Sounds like a contradiction to me. Plus, a quick ISO reveals that he's hardly done any scumhunting.

UNVOTE: Pine
VOTE: PeregrineV

[PeregrineV]

@MLain- This is day1 with effectively 11 strangers, some of which I played with before either as town or scum. However, since this is a new game, I have to dismiss all the earlier stuff, and consider 11 strangers. That is the basis between my exchanges with Magua and Camn. So, today I read, watch, participate, and guess along with everyone else. But as for "real case"s like every else seems to get day1, it usually doesn't happen that way for me.

As a matter of fact, need to wait for the next trigger to send me into a voting frenzy.

Unvote.

P-edit:
@Bvoight- Currently, seems town enough to not hang day1.

[Yosarian2]

@MLain- This is day1 with effectively 11 strangers, some of which I played with before either as town or scum. However, since this is a new game, I have to dismiss all the earlier stuff, and consider 11 strangers. That is the basis between my exchanges with Magua and Camn. So, today I read, watch, participate, and guess along with everyone else. But as for "real case"s like every else seems to get day1, it usually doesn't happen that way for me.

As a matter of fact, need to wait for the next trigger to send me into a voting frenzy.

Unvote.

P-edit:
@Bvoight- Currently, seems town enough to not hang day1.

Stiil, bvoigt is right, PeregrineV. You kept your vote on Haylen, while the Haylen wagon was at 3 votes and the largest in the game at the time, while defending Haylen at the same time. Can you explain why you decided to do that?

[PeregrineV]

Sure. I generally leave my vote where it is until I re-vote someone else, or until someone gets close to lynching. Then I re-examine if I want to keep my vote there.
So far, I haven't found a better place to put it yet, but I did unvote so it can be clear that

at this time

I have no suspicion of Haylen.

[bvoigt]

@Bvoight- Currently, seems town enough to not hang day1.

Any specific reasons? Also, if you did have to identify some scumreads, who would you say?

[Battle Mage]

I suppose i'll offer a courtesy

FoS: Yosarian2

for inconsistency of argument. Why are you attacking Tripmywire for something (admittedly i hadnt noticed this) that i am equally guilty of? I'm not buying the point about Camn either. Sure, he isnt coming over as an inspired scumhunter, but Tripmywire certainly seems like a well-intentioned townie to me.

What i'd really like to see right now is some kind of direction. There's what, 2/3 votes on Haylen for reasons unjustified. I see Bvoigt just cast an inane vote for Peregrine.

I'd like to see Yos explain why Incognito's diabolical logic against Haylen is not scummy. Then explain why he has chosen to ignore me and focus his attack on Tripmywire. Finally, id like to see him give comment on Medicated Lain. A Day 1 Yos lynch isn't ideal, but dont think it's impossible.

I think we're lynching one of Incognito, Medicated Lain or Yosarian2 today. Now would be a good time to step up and plead a case either way on those 3 individuals.

BM

[Battle Mage]

Sure. I generally leave my vote where it is until I re-vote someone else, or until someone gets close to lynching. Then I re-examine if I want to keep my vote there.
So far, I haven't found a better place to put it yet, but I did unvote so it can be clear that

at this time

I have no suspicion of Haylen.

this is a disgusting cop out btw. Try not to get splinters.

BM

[Battle Mage]

No worries, I'm not an angry person, just aggressive when need be ^^

LOL

You'll get one tomorrow. I only allocate so much time of my life to back reading in games, so tomorrow will be the second half of the town.

Wow, I guess there was a little too much zydrate in my cereal this morning. I will leave my vote on him until tomorrow, and see if anyone looks anymore suspicious. First I want some answers to some of these questions.

Just so you know, there's no shame here in admitting you were wrong. Stubbornness isnt the most protown attribute.

BM

[Magua]

The mention of promising not to day kill this game, is this a reference to the last game you two played together?

Yes; see also camn's grudge vote on me for that game.

@Battle Mage:

Why is Peregrine not in the list of people you want lynched today?

camn remains town.
Green Crayons remains null to town. No interest in lynching GC.

Haylen is null to town. I don't find Icognito's original meta-attack on Haylen believable, and I haven't seen anything since then that makes me strongly believe scum, and a few things that make me think she's town. Don't want to lynch her today. (If Haylen is scum, she's getting bussed by a teammate, guaranteed.)

I like Battle Mage so far. He can join Green Crayons in null to town.

Don't like MehPlusRawr. I want to believe that scum would not be so foolhardy as to openly lurk like this, but, then again, I also want to believe that town wouldn't do it because of its sheer antitown nature. MehPlusRawr is an acceptable, but not actively desired, lynch at this point, but I'd prefer that he get vigged if possible. Will revisit D2 / when content appears, whichever comes first.

Still want to lynch Peregrine.
Still want to lynch Pine, but not as much as I want to lynch Peregrine.

Everyone else (bvoigt, Medicated Lain, Yosarian2, Incognito) is a big pile of null. I don't have the Incognito hate, but I wouldn't shed tears at an Incognito lynch.

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- last two posts mainly. Although will continue to expect more. As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Battle- Welcome to town, were we don't know and have to guess/figure it out, and are in the dark until the mod makes the deathpost. Is it different for you?

P-edit: See, now Magua posted something. I'll post first then read it.

[TripMyWire]

Why would it bother you *more* that she does it often? If she does it often, and has done it as town, dosn't that make it less of a scumtell? I think it's plausable to suspect Camn for the claim thing, but he seems to not find it scummy, but then say it's scummy because she's done it before. Huh?

I didn't find it scummy. The only problem I could see with her doing that would be the excuse that "she does it every game" which could be used as a cover... hypothetically speaking: She could say, "oh that’s just my playing style as town," and then as mafia one time she could say “but that’s how I always am” as a defense… you know, a cover. Yes I did say that it concerns me more, but you have to remember that it originally didn’t concern me at all… I clearly said I didn’t find it scummy. Very hypothetical situation. She was just the favorite target at the time and I was saying my views on the situation. I still don’t find camn scummy at all… sooo I’m thinking you just misunderstood.

In the same post, he also kind of has it both ways with Pine, first calling him scum and saying the "town" line was a scum slip, then turning around and doubting himself. Don't really like that.

I was asked to state my observations of the game so far. So that’s one of them. I said I wasn’t entirely sure what to think at that time. If he had asked for which person I thought was scum I probably would have said ‘no one so far’… I already mentioned in #132 that I hadn’t made any decisions yet.

I really don't get why he's attacking incog here...are you attacking him just because you don't agree with his logic on Haylen?

Yes. I don’t agree with him and I don’t think he has a good enough case on Haylen to state that she’s obviously scum.

He justifies it by saying "Incognito is my #1 suspect at the time." That's really odd; in a previous post, he attacks Camn, Bvigot, and Pine, but he dosn't vote for any of them. Why is Incognito your #1 suspect, when you made stronger points against other people just a few posts ago?

WAIT. I did NOT attack camn… I made it very clear that I said I did NOT find her scummy. I think you may have misunderstood that. I was asked what I thought about what was going on and I had to mention camn since that was the main even going on at that time. No attack. Just my opinion.

As for bvoigt, I found his sheeping suspicious, but I didn’t think he was scum just because of that. I even said so in that same post.

I don’t believe, as you’re claiming, that I had strong points against any of those three, (maybe Pine, but there was also a misunderstanding on my part) and they were all cleared up in later posts. Once again, I was asked to make observations. Also, I did not just make a vote on Incognito on a whim as you’re implying. After he told me that Haylen was obvscum I ISO’d him to see what his case against her was and did some comparisons and analysis and decided that I found him scummy. Much more involved than the other three observations (“attacks”) you’re saying I made.

[Battle Mage]

i think we can safely assume Camn is town, simply from the fact that everyone is happy to buddy her at this point. lol more later

BM

[Battle Mage]

btw, please take anything i am posting now with a pinch of salt, as i might have incurred a concussion. Haylen can vouch. -.- wooooooooooooooo

BM

[Magua]

@bvoigt- last two posts mainly. Although will continue to expect more. As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Battle- Welcome to town, were we don't know and have to guess/figure it out, and are in the dark until the mod makes the deathpost. Is it different for you?

P-edit: See, now Magua posted something. I'll post first then read it.

Leaving aside "LOL OMGUS", when I prodded you on what you made of camn/Pine, you said:

Re: Pine/Camn: They'll work it out eventually. Meanwhile, they are providing more data for later use.

When did Pine move from "providing more data for later use" (which I read as "null") to scum?

[PeregrineV]

@Magua- First post of mine you are referring to was 7 hours since Pine posted.
Last post of mine you are referring to was 48+ hours since Pine last posted.
And a scum read can be leaning scum without being scum.

[Magua]

Allow me to be more concise:

When did Pine move

from "providing more data for later use" (which I read as "null")

to scum?

[PeregrineV]

Allow me to be more concise:

When did Pine move

from "providing more data for later use" (which I read as "null")

to scum?

Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:02 am

[bvoigt]

@bvoigt- last two posts mainly. Although will continue to expect more. As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

What's your reasoning?

The entirety of Trip's latest post seems to be fencesitting.

I said I wasn’t entirely sure what to think at that time.

As for bvoigt, I found his sheeping suspicious, but I didn’t think he was scum just because of that.

I don’t believe, as you’re claiming, that I had strong points against any of those three.

[Magua]

Allow me to be more concise:

When did Pine move

from "providing more data for later use" (which I read as "null")

to scum?

Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:02 am

Since I'm not in your timezone, not helpful.

Helpful: A post number or explanation

[TripMyWire]

The entirety of Trip's latest post seems to be fencesitting.

I said I wasn’t entirely sure what to think at that time.

As for bvoigt, I found his sheeping suspicious, but I didn’t think he was scum just because of that.

I don’t believe, as you’re claiming, that I had strong points against any of those three.

Those are all in the past tense. In the entirety of that last post I was explaining a previous post to Yosarian, which you already pointed out for the fence-sitting-ness... so now you're just kinda repeating yourself using the same info even though things have since changed. Again, I was asked for observations so I gave them. In fact, that last quote of mine you gave was deliberately saying so... you're not really saying anything new. In that last post I also said how I felt currently about those issues which ceases the fence-sitting-ness.

[Pine]

There were no posts on the 16th (or 15th, I think) whose timestamp ended in :02, Magua. The time Peregrine is arbitrary and perhaps sarcastic, indicating (to me) that Pere doesn't have a good response. Possible 'scumslip'.

[PeregrineV]

@Bvoigt- gut, guess, lurker

@Magua- One minute prior to the posting time of post 184. Which person do you most object to on the list?

P-edit: I copy/pasted the time from my post, and subtracted the one minute it took me to write the post. (See response to Magua).

[Yosarian2]

I suppose i'll offer a courtesy

FoS: Yosarian2

for inconsistency of argument. Why are you attacking Tripmywire for something (admittedly i hadnt noticed this) that i am equally guilty of?

How is it "the same thing"? Yes, you and tripwire both attacked Incognito, but your attack seemed like it might have had pro-town motives behind it. It looked like you were actually reading Incog's post and questioning his logic, while Trip just looks like a scum who's doing fake-scumhunting and planting a vote for no real reason.

Also, Trip is trying to have it both ways on pretty much every wagon in the game, and is generally acting like scum. There's more then one reason he's my main suspect right now. Don't write him off as town just because he agrees with you, BM.

I'd like to see Yos explain why Incognito's diabolical logic against Haylen is not scummy.

Hmm? I don't think it is scummy. He pointed out she's not acting or thinking like she has acted in other games in the past when she was town, and gave links to demonstrate; that's a pretty reasonable meta-argument. Not an especially strong argument, but fine for the early stage of day 1.

He's also saying that Haylen-town tends to meander all over the place and generally do weird stuff, while Haylen-scum is more calm and controlled. That's probably a true meta of her, based on what I've seen. Haylen is a stronger scum player then she is a town player; not that she's a bad town player, but she's won, what, 3 games as SK in a row or something?

Finally, id like to see him give comment on Medicated Lain.

Hmm? Don't really have much of a read on her yet. She hasn't done much so far, but that was also true of the last game I played with her, and she was town then.

Why her?

[Battle Mage]

If Peregrine is scum, i like Bvoigt as his buddy. Hoping to look like a genius if i'm right! haha

Ooh Yos has arrived!

BM

[bvoigt]

Those are all in the past tense. In the entirety of that last post I was explaining a previous post to Yosarian, which you already pointed out for the fence-sitting-ness... so now you're just kinda repeating yourself using the same info even though things have since changed. Again, I was asked for observations so I gave them. In fact, that last quote of mine you gave was deliberately saying so... you're not really saying anything new.

I guess, but the point is still relevant and valid.

In that last post I also said how I felt currently about those issues which ceases the fence-sitting-ness.

You did? I know you said camn wasn't scummy, but you never explicitly called her town. And you didn't say anything about my alignment, or Pine's alignment.

@Bvoigt- gut, guess, lurker

You certainly don't have strong reads, and you're not doing much scumhunting, either-- mostly just responding to cases and questions against you, without asking any questions to get reads on other players. I'm not seeing the pro-town motivation here.