Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Incognito]

Trip, Haylen is obvscum because she's pretty obviously making up stuff as she goes along. The meta thing was one piece of evidence, but if you read along with my post 14 you'll see me pointing out more of her making stuff up as she goes along too.

The other reason why I think Haylen is obvscum has to do with meta, which I don't expect you to know about -- Haylen tends to get much more emotional and all over the place as town but in this game she seems fairly stable, which is scummy for her. Plus there's the fact that everyone and their mother hasn't attacked her yet, which would have happened already if she was town.

I don't really see why me finding her to be obvscum would be worthy of a vote though; that kind of came out of nowhere.




@BM, it's tomorrow. Can you provide that reasoning now?

[Medicated Lain]

Sorry folk. Being sick + busy week = lacking of mafia. I will post something of actual content when I get home from work today.

[camn]

I actually feel bad about Haylen and my last game together, which is why I have cut her some slack so far.
Plus Pine is SO MUCH SCUMMIER!

[Incognito]

Really not seeing it camn. What do you think of his reactions? What do you think of his choice of people to suspect so far?

[camn]

Look at his ISO. It says nothing. Nothing at all.

Wheras Haylen has been getting her ASS kicked lately as town.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was taking it down a notch.

[Incognito]

Actually it shows him blowing up on people, nearly requesting replacement, AND suspecting three people that I wouldn't expect a hypothetical scum with his join date to dare to suspect in a game like this.

[camn]

ACTUALLY It shows him voting a crap-tell, OMGUS-ing any criticism, keeping a fixed position when he is obv-wrong (hint: because the position was fabricated to begin with), attempting to bully people into leaving him alone, then crying to the mod when nobody does!

[Green Crayons]

I would like other player's input on my Yos suspicions. I've only seen Haylen "commenting" (in a warped understanding of the word) on it. I would like third party input on my suspicions because I thought they were fairly decent but nobody's said a damned thing. A thumbs up or down will suffice.

---

Camn

:

- In the prior two games where you suggested mass name claims, you actually suggested claiming. This game, you only asked what people

thought

about mass name claims. There is a distinction. What was the reason behind this shift?

I actually feel bad about Haylen and my last game together, which is why I have cut her some slack so far.

But you're not willing to cut slack for Pine because of his reg date?

Not that Pine needs or should be given slack for his abrasive posting. But the fact that you're putting out this double standard is pretty glaring.

---

Haylen

:

@ Incog - your meta doesn't stand anymore. I've become increasingly paranoid in games

to the point of refusing to believe power roles aren't scum pretending to be power roles and cop results

because YOU NEVER KNOW WHO'S TRYING TO SCREW YOU OVER.

Can you restate bolded or explain to a less degree of double negatives or something? Because I can't make sense of it. I've attempted while both sober and inebriated. Please help a brother out.

Town on Yos ~ He would know better than to create a connection between himself and another player (camn) so early in the game if he was scum. It wouldn't make sense if they were scum together. If Yos was scum, he would be hoping that he himself would be lynched first in order for the town to pick up on this connection so they can mislynch camn - however, I would predict that camn would get lynched before Yos which would make the connection useless and he'd possibly get accused of buddying.

This is so very convoluted. And weird. I mean: (1) why do you know he would know better as scum? (2) why would scum not want to connect to someone else (that you seem to believe is town-leaning) so as to "know better?" (3) Why do you think Yos' single post creates this kind of connection (what is this connection, anyways)? (4) what in the world are you talking about about "if Yos was scum" he would want to be lynched -- why are you concluding that Yos would want to be lynched in the first place? (5) Why would camn get lynched first? (6) The first part of your post speaks as if Yos is scum buddying with a town-camn. The last half of your post speaks as if camn is town and Yos would want to be buddying with her (at the risk of getting caught upon her death). Which is it?

---

Incog

:

I'm stunned that Green Crayons apparently has a town read on Trip; Trip seems flat-out neutral maybe even leaning slightly scummy if anything.

When I said Trip voiced my reaction to Pine to a T, I meant literally. As in, literally the words he typed were the words that went through my head when assessing Pine. It struck me quite profoundly, because either he's a similar thinking town or he's a scum who knows how to ape a town reaction perfectly.

That said, it's not something that will convince me until the end of the game that Trip is obvtown. But for now it's sufficient for me to move on to greener pastures. By way of example, bvoigt's note on Trip's lack of a strong stance is interesting - and may eventually be just another point in a long list against Trip - but for now it doesn't do anything for me.

Yo, GC, since nobody else asked, what's up with the Battle Mage vote anyway?

At first it was because of his weird Yos joke (being second after Magua) and because of his strange posting. My vote started out as a early-D1 thought of it being a scum putting on an attempt to look super Loose And Crazy! (Apparently he just posts... that... way.) Then it became a lurker vote. Now it's a meh vote, because I can't get a read off of that type of posting. I mean, seriously -- he's even done the "joke about being a scum" on page six, which is something for which I always vote (and it's even done on page six!). That's just frustrating.

---

Pere

:

Camn is doing an outstanding job of scumhunting and presenting her cases as they arise.
I find both equally capable players, and as of yet do not find either to be candidates for the mafia team.

Up until this point camn's big push has been on Pine, who you believe to be town. Prior that, it was camn voting bvoigt because "someone needs to have his own opinion." That was the extent of camn's scumhunting against bvoigt. Prior to that it was asking about mass role claim. Prior to that it was a grudge/random Magua vote.

My point being, where along this line has camn done an outstanding job of "scumhunting and presenting her cases" from your perspective?

[Haylen]

I lack the ability to get emotionally involved in games as any alignment anymore too. I've messed up in loads of games recently and this game is my only recent game that I've displayed some sort of enthusiam rather than complete apathy. It's been since I messed up really badly in a scum game and claimed a role that was impossible for not only the setup but that's been banned in the normal queue. Plus the ass kickings. Kind of affected my will. Big mess ups effect people differently, this one can be proven by looking at my recent games.

Incog...you really don't know Pine ._.

How can it look like I'm making stuff up as I go along when I'm giving reasons and evidence for what I say?

Further, why would I take all this time and energy to look into current meta when I'm not even pushing for camn's lynch at this point? That'd be dumb.

When somebody votes for another person, I am generally under the impression that they want to lynch them or pressure them. Either way, they should know the full circumstances of what is being said before they do.

I'm actually liking bvoigt so far; the thing he pointed out in his post 100 about Haylen was something I was thinking as well along with some of the "qualifier" stuff he pointed out recently about Trip too.

You think he's town because he's agreeing with you? From here it looks like he's buddying you and I find it interesting that you can't see that. Take a look at both of your voting patterns too.

FoS Bvoigt

I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't scum lurking, and just a case of mafia being open in the background.

Can you explain this please? I get the part up to the comma but not the rest.

Then, since you and camn explained yourself well, I voted Haylen, but the reasons were not the same as Incognito's.

See this is why I find it scummy when people don't explain their votes. It means they can't avoid being called out on buddying or sheeping which is what Bvoigt has done here. He's failed to explain why he voted me in an earlier post, has been called out for sheeping everything Incog says and can now say that his reasons were completely different and make them up.

BM, actually thoughts on everything that's happened until now, please? I notice you managed to avoid that whilst you were catching up.

Can you restate bolded or explain to a less degree of double negatives or something? Because I can't make sense of it. I've attempted while both sober and inebriated. Please help a brother out.

I'm basically saying that I never fully believe power role claims or claimed cop results because there's always something, somewhere that could make it false ie godfather, scum fakeclaim ect.

On the 'convulated' thing you quoted. I was trying to explain things from various yos-pov's and concluded that from a scum point of view, what he was doing didn't make sense. Scum wouldn't want to connect with their partner because it's likely to backfire later in the game when everyone starts looking for relationships, Yos has played enough games to know that. If you want a simple explanation: Yos is ancient, ancient people are wise and know what not to do.

I should sleep.

[Battle Mage]

Trip, Haylen is obvscum because she's pretty obviously making up stuff as she goes along. The meta thing was one piece of evidence, but if you read along with my post 14 you'll see me pointing out more of her making stuff up as she goes along too.

The other reason why I think Haylen is obvscum has to do with meta, which I don't expect you to know about -- Haylen tends to get much more emotional and all over the place as town but in this game she seems fairly stable, which is scummy for her. Plus there's the fact that everyone and their mother hasn't attacked her yet, which would have happened already if she was town.

Explain how this logically follows. You seem to be suggesting that Haylen-scum would not be bussed/distanced from on Day 1. Given that you presuppose that she is lynchbait as town, i'd say the opposite should be true. Haylen-scum would get the stink bussed out of her in the early going to take the heat off later, assuming her partners weren't complete novices.

On the topic, i dont know why you feel confident to draw the conclusion she is "stable" and not "all over the place" when she hasnt said a bloody thing yet. And reading over your post again, i realise that your reasoning for suspecting Haylen actually has no substance whatsoever. So please, please, please, please, explain to me, why you feel that somebody you admit yourself is a pretty easy mislynch at the best of times, is deserving of your vote today?

Oh my, i am looking forward to your reply!

@BM, it's tomorrow. Can you provide that reasoning now?

Yeah, two bits of bad news on that front. First is, it's still today. Second is, i dunno if you're gonna be around to ask me again tomorrow.

Unvote, Vote: Incognito

MEDICATED LAIN

: Your first post will be a detailed analysis of Bvoigt and if you wanna get in Crayon's good books, Yosarian(2). I really dont want to see any random generic rubbish, we need focus.

GC is the one person i'm actually really liking at this point.

BM

[Battle Mage]

BM, actually thoughts on everything that's happened until now, please? I notice you managed to avoid that whilst you were catching up.

Stop ribbing me! I've been putting much more effort into this game than you so far, and i've been prodded!!

Scum wouldn't want to connect with their partner because it's likely to backfire later in the game when everyone starts looking for relationships, Yos has played enough games to know that. If you want a simple explanation: Yos is ancient, ancient people are wise and know what not to do.

I disagree with the above quote. I will explain on Day 3 if i am alive then and anyone cares to ask.

BM

[bvoigt]

Then, since you and camn explained yourself well, I voted Haylen, but the reasons were not the same as Incognito's.

See this is why I find it scummy when people don't explain their votes. It means they can't avoid being called out on buddying or sheeping which is what Bvoigt has done here. He's failed to explain why he voted me in an earlier post, has been called out for sheeping everything Incog says and can now say that his reasons were completely different and make them up.

This is why I voted for you (in ISO #6), taken from ISO #5:

Unvote. Vote camn

I FoS'd camn earlier, now I'm removing my vote from Incog, I thought it would be better placed there.

This explanation gives me a bad gut feeling. Why do you need to mention that you FoS'ed her earlier?

@BM: Why the Incognito vote? Also, why do you ask about me and Yos in particular?

[camn]

@ crayons:
The first time, I had an investigative role, and actually thought it would have been a good idea. I noticed that it spurred a LOT of discussion at that time.
The NEXT time (as scum) I was really into the flavor, and had a lock of a fake-claim, so I thought it would be FUN, and not that detrimental. I noticed, to my dismay, it totally destroyed the RVS and my partner got pinched because of his REACTION.
So this game, I noticed the game was not moving to my satisfaction, and I knew it would break us out. . . so I asked the question.
If the town was overwhelmingly FOR it, I would have gone for it. But meh otherwise.

Re: Haylen.. I FEEL bad. She has obv been frustrated about her play lately.. and in the last game me and DGB totally railroaded her, not giving her a chance at all.. and she was town. I dont want to repeat that mistake. So I am gunshy. Day2, Day3.. she and I can come to terms (but of course, I will be dead.)
I have no experience that says the way PINE is playing is indicative of him being town. Plus, I have no emotional guilt toward him. Only hate, given the insults he has thrown at all of us. I MIGHT cut him some slack if he would start playing right. I am abrasive sometimes, sure, but that doesn't mean he gets to escape inquiry.

PS: Crayons is giving me some serious town vibes.

[TripMyWire]

I don't really see why me finding her to be obvscum would be worthy of a vote though; that kind of came out of nowhere.

Well, I was still going on my random vote and since you're now my #1 suspect why wouldn't I vote you? A quick review reveals it became the only vote on you at the time so it's not like it was too threatening. You seriously voted me for just being online when the PMs sent out, and you rolled dice for another vote... I don't see it being all that radical by comparison.

The other reason why I think Haylen is obvscum has to do with meta,

which I don't expect you to know about

This comes off as, "she's scum, just trust me on this" and it doesn't help convince me she's scum... especially since that other game was from 8 months ago. You're right that I'm new* and I've never played with anyone in this game before... but I don't believe that someone can be identified as obvscum by comparing a current game to previous games... well, at least in the super majority of cases, and definitely not in this situation with Haylen. People change their gameplay and style and their tactics evolve.

I'm inclined to believe that it wasn't scum lurking, and just a case of mafia being open in the background.

Can you explain this please? I get the part up to the comma but not the rest.

This was regarding Incognito's vote for me because I was online at the time the PMs went out... she was pointing out that I had the mafiascum website open in another browser tab (in the background) while I was doing other things.


*While my registration date says I'm from 2004, I only played a couple of newbie games back then. After a 6-ish year break I came back (thanks to my bff Medicated Lain) and played another newbie game which just finished.

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- Today, right now, I would be against a lynching of me, Green Crayons, Incog, or Haylen. And your Incog vote doesn't make a lot sense. Can you provide further insight about your decision making process in that regard?

@Green- Umm, there is a reason all the crossed out crap was crossed out. That was a semi-sarcastic response to Magua.

[Medicated Lain]

MEDICATED LAIN: Your first post will be a detailed analysis of Bvoigt and if you wanna get in Crayon's good books, Yosarian(2). I really dont want to see any random generic rubbish, we need focus.

I'm not interested in following your orders for approval, and certainly not interested in buddying with crayons at this point. I may have been out of mafia for some many years, and I may have a different style from some of this town's... I get the feeling so far anyway. But is it that necessary to boss me around on what to do? I'll play by my own style, thank you.

Read through the game as a whole, and ISOd the first half today. That is where my comments and questions will lay.

@peregrine: why so many posts in other games, but such little attention here? There's not much else that can be said, Magua is right, #58 is weird... what were you even doing there? I don't understand that post at all.

@mehplus rahr... uhm... do you exist? Are we getting a replacement soon?

about pine: I admit I agree that the post against camn was worded funny. But i guess I've learned from recent experience that that doesn't always mean everything. Looking at everything beyond that post, I personally think pine is about the most town looking person in this game so far.... although I do think it's interesting to note that Magua thinks he's getting more personally involved than he usually would, I will keep this in mind.

about green crayons: I think he is scum. The more I look, the more I wonder about you, crayons.
question: Why did you wait so long, over a day and multiple posts in between talking about trip at all? You made no mention of him, and then suddenly bring it up and kind of bash on it for a few posts, and move away again.
Looking at crayons over all trend, this is what happens, he seems to be making a point of addressing folk as much as possible... Magua, trip, me, Yos, pine, haylen, camn, pere. I guess to me, it feels like attempts at seeming active and keeping in touch with the town, without actually doing anything.
I understand not throwing a vote around, but you sure do question, interrogate, suspect people quite a lot for not having moved your vote from the very first one of the game.

unvote, vote: green crayons

about bvoigt: Doesn't seem the cleanest but certainly better looking than crayons. I can look at the game in context and understand why the votes placed were done so. The bickering with Pine seemed really unnecessary, since Pine had declared what he meant, it looked like just trying to keep the fuel going. I don't like this.

@Magua:

and VOTE: MAGUA
THis is a grudge-vote, strictly.

Camn, if you vote Yosarian, I promise not to daykill you today.

The mention of promising not to day kill this game, is this a reference to the last game you two played together?

I will be looking over the rest tomorrow, and probably placing a vote on crayons then.

[Battle Mage]

@Battle- Today, right now, I would be against a lynching of me, Green Crayons, Incog, or Haylen. And your Incog vote doesn't make a lot sense. Can you provide further insight about your decision making process in that regard?

Against a lynch of Incog? How can you be against a lynch of Incog??

If you struggled with, what i felt was very very simple and coherent, reasoning for my Incog vote, i'll simplify it even more.

I am voting for Incognito because his Haylen-vote was contrived, the reasoning eminently fictitious.

@Bvoigt - Just random people i felt hadn't been adequately covered.

BM

[Battle Mage]

MEDICATED LAIN: Your first post will be a detailed analysis of Bvoigt and if you wanna get in Crayon's good books, Yosarian(2). I really dont want to see any random generic rubbish, we need focus.

I'm not interested in following your orders for approval, and certainly not interested in buddying with crayons at this point. I may have been out of mafia for some many years, and I may have a different style from some of this town's... I get the feeling so far anyway. But is it that necessary to boss me around on what to do? I'll play by my own style, thank you.

Come now, no waterworks please! You have a point, my approval is historically more a curse than a blessing. But as i know nothing of you, and you had posted nothing prior to my request, you'll forgive me if i wanted to ensure that you provided something specific on specific players, rather than some generic overview of the entire game. Evidently, i wasnt entirely unjustified, becaaaaauuuuuse:

Read through the game as a whole, and ISOd the first half today. That is where my comments and questions will lay.

@peregrine: why so many posts in other games, but such little attention here? There's not much else that can be said, Magua is right, #58 is weird... what were you even doing there? I don't understand that post at all.

@mehplus rahr... uhm... do you exist? Are we getting a replacement soon?

about pine: I admit I agree that the post against camn was worded funny. But i guess I've learned from recent experience that that doesn't always mean everything. Looking at everything beyond that post, I personally think pine is about the most town looking person in this game so far.... although I do think it's interesting to note that Magua thinks he's getting more personally involved than he usually would, I will keep this in mind.

about green crayons: I think he is scum. The more I look, the more I wonder about you, crayons.
question: Why did you wait so long, over a day and multiple posts in between talking about trip at all? You made no mention of him, and then suddenly bring it up and kind of bash on it for a few posts, and move away again.
Looking at crayons over all trend, this is what happens, he seems to be making a point of addressing folk as much as possible... Magua, trip, me, Yos, pine, haylen, camn, pere. I guess to me, it feels like attempts at seeming active and keeping in touch with the town, without actually doing anything.
I understand not throwing a vote around, but you sure do question, interrogate, suspect people quite a lot for not having moved your vote from the very first one of the game.

unvote, vote: green crayons

about bvoigt: Doesn't seem the cleanest but certainly better looking than crayons. I can look at the game in context and understand why the votes placed were done so. The bickering with Pine seemed really unnecessary, since Pine had declared what he meant, it looked like just trying to keep the fuel going. I don't like this.

@Magua:

and VOTE: MAGUA
THis is a grudge-vote, strictly.

Camn, if you vote Yosarian, I promise not to daykill you today.

The mention of promising not to day kill this game, is this a reference to the last game you two played together?

I will be looking over the rest tomorrow, and probably placing a vote on crayons then.

concussion? you voted for him like 2 sentences ago. How many votes do you have exactly?

I'm not buying GC hate atm. You're gonna have to try something else. Why not PBPA me?

BM

[Battle Mage]

anyone unclear about my Incog vote needs to be reading the post in which i made it, because really it is pretty clear he is scum.

BM

[MehPlusRawr]

@mehplus rahr... uhm... do you exist? Are we getting a replacement soon?

Yes and no, I'm reading. :U

[Medicated Lain]

No worries, I'm not an angry person, just aggressive when need be ^^

You'll get one tomorrow. I only allocate so much time of my life to back reading in games, so tomorrow will be the second half of the town.

Wow, I guess there was a little too much zydrate in my cereal this morning. I will leave my vote on him until tomorrow, and see if anyone looks anymore suspicious. First I want some answers to some of these questions.

[InflatablePie]

VC #4 - The Clean Incisions Votecount

Haylen (3): Yosarian2, Incognito, PeregrineV
Pine (2): bvoigt, camn
Incognito (2): TripMyWire, Battle Mage
camn (1): Pine
Battle Mage (1): Green Crayons
PeregrineV (1): Magua
Green Crayons (1): Medicated Lain

Not Voting (3): MehPlusRawr, Haylen

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch or 7 to No Lynch.
Deadline is at 10 AM Eastern on July 1st.
Please notify me of any votecount mistakes.

[Yosarian2]

I'm leaning towards TripMyWire being scum.

Vote:TripMyWire

First, his reaction towards Camn seems off:

Why, yes! Thanks for asking.
1. When reading through the posts I did not find camn's suggestion of a name claim terribly scummy. I don't think it's a great idea at this point, and I see why people would jump on it as if it were scummy, but to me it just didn't seem like scum would suggest something like that. Those were my first thoughts. Then she pointed out how she does that kind of thing often, which concerns me a little because it could possibly be used as a cover. That, to me, concerns me more than the actual suggestion of the name claim if it were to be an isolated incident.

Why would it bother you *more* that she does it often? If she does it often, and has done it as town, dosn't that make it less of a scumtell? I think it's plausable to suspect Camn for the claim thing, but he seems to not find it scummy, but then say it's scummy because she's done it before. Huh?

In the same post, he also kind of has it both ways with Pine, first calling him scum and saying the "town" line was a scum slip, then turning around and doubting himself. Don't really like that.

I also really dislike his attack on Incognito:

I never got a scummy vibe from her so I've been looking into this. You're saying she's obviously scum because of the inconsistency you pointed out with another game? I kind of mentioned it earlier, but at first I had a feeling from your posts that you were trying to toss out ideas to see what would stick... and then you rolled dice for your decision. Also, Haylen's "bandwagon" on you at the beginning was obviously not serious, but you reacted it to as if it were. I really don't believe there is anything scummy in the inconsistency you are basing your case on... I only read town things from Haylen and your belief that she's obvscum surprises me. Or am I taking the definition of 'obvscum' too seriously?
Unvote, Vote: Incognito

I really don't get why he's attacking incog here...are you attacking him just because you don't agree with his logic on Haylen?

And in his next post:

I don't really see why me finding her to be obvscum would be worthy of a vote though; that kind of came out of nowhere.

Well, I was still going on my random vote and since you're now my #1 suspect why wouldn't I vote you? A quick review reveals it became the only vote on you at the time so it's not like it was too threatening. You seriously voted me for just being online when the PMs sent out, and you rolled dice for another vote... I don't see it being all that radical by comparison.

He justifies it by saying "Incognito is my #1 suspect at the time." That's really odd; in a previous post, he attacks Camn, Bvigot, and Pine, but he dosn't vote for any of them. Why is Incognito your #1 suspect, when you made stronger points against other people just a few posts ago?

[Yosarian2]

I would like other player's input on my Yos suspicions. I've only seen Haylen "commenting" (in a warped understanding of the word) on it. I would like third party input on my suspicions because I thought they were fairly decent but nobody's said a damned thing. A thumbs up or down will suffice.

Huh. Are you claiming that your "yos suspicions" were intended to be serious now?

Really not liking this, gc. First you attack me for a really silly reason (which was basically "Yos said something that someone else had already said"), but fine, it was early day 1, I figured you were just trying to get a reaction and get something going, so I responded to you. Then you denied that you'd been attacking me at all, while attacking me further, and then after spinning up three attack posts on me out of nothing, you attacked me for defending myself against your attack posts ("104 and 105 come across as scatterbrained and defensive"). Now you're trying to get support for this attack by asking other people about it.

Whole thing looks like a textbook example of "how to push a bad lynch against someone when you don't have a case against them".

[bvoigt]

@Battle- Today, right now, I would be against a lynching of me, Green Crayons, Incog, or Haylen. And your Incog vote doesn't make a lot sense. Can you provide further insight about your decision making process in that regard?

@Green- Umm, there is a reason all the crossed out crap was crossed out. That was a semi-sarcastic response to Magua.

Why are you against a Haylen lynch?