Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[PeregrineV]

@EmpKing- Kind of like a ninja doctor. He will never be spotted protecting someone?

[Empking]

@EmpKing- Kind of like a ninja doctor. He will never be spotted protecting someone?

I don't understand.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think this MBF/Rag dichotomy is the perfect place for an SK. Having two players confirmed essentially as mason-vigs is incredibly powerful for the town, and I don't see the mafia having anything near powerful enough to counter that. If they do, it's not a role I've ever heard of. It makes perfect sense for the mod to balance vig and SK by making them neighbors together. It gives the SK some protection because they can claim to be another vig, which is good since SK is generally a severely underpowered role. They can also try to influence the vig's kills somewhat. However, at the same time it makes the SK somewhat accountable for their kills, since they are neighbors with the vig. This is a good balancing factor for the town, as it encourages the SK to hunt for mafia.

If I was a mod, I would definitely want to include something like this. Honestly, I wish I'd been the one to think of it first, because it totally makes sense to have roles like that.

Thus, I'm thinking one of Rag/MBF is the SK. My gut wants to say it's MBF, based on his play today, but his Magua kill was more protown than Rag's kill on RC. There's also the fact that Rag hasn't done a lot of good scumhunting in the game thread, opting instead to apparently just pour it all into the QT with MBF. I can understand doing that to a point, since I've done that with Ant, but eventually you still have to say what's on your mind to everyone else or you aren't helping us find scum. You're just making MBF think you want to find scum. So I'm going to have to go back and look at my notes and see what I think about MBF/Rag again.

FoS: Rag

for good measure, since I already have one on MBF.

[Thor665]

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

I'll go into that once we have verification (or lack thereof) of a pro-town Dayvig.
I'm non-standard.

[Thor665]

Crappity crap crap - I'm going to go look through some of Mothrax's other modded games to see if I can figure out how he does his kill flavor.

@Mod - Can you provide any clarification to how Mothrax handled kill flavor in this game?

[Thor665]

I think this MBF/Rag dichotomy is the perfect place for an SK. Having two players confirmed essentially as mason-vigs is incredibly powerful for the town, and I don't see the mafia having anything near powerful enough to counter that. If they do, it's not a role I've ever heard of. It makes perfect sense for the mod to balance vig and SK by making them neighbors together. It gives the SK some protection because they can claim to be another vig, which is good since SK is generally a severely underpowered role. They can also try to influence the vig's kills somewhat. However, at the same time it makes the SK somewhat accountable for their kills, since they are neighbors with the vig. This is a good balancing factor for the town, as it encourages the SK to hunt for mafia.

This is a good point. It's a powerful setup and naturally the thought of one even/odd Vig would be that the other shares his alignment. As confirmed Vigs to each other they become frighteningly deadly to the Mafia who would need something powerful to counter them. RB isn't bad, and we don't know what else the Mafia may have, but I agree they're powerful paired with a cop and my role and a potential town Day Vig.

Alternate thought - they're the mafia, and an SK who killed ooba isn't willing to counter claim to sink them. Alternate nights jazz could just be hedging bets in case of tracker/watcher and they were just declaring who took the shots as dana was obviously blocking.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- If we have a town day-vig, why do you think they wouldn't claim it?

[Thor665]

I would guess since it's a self confirming and obvious power they may not have felt the need?
I dunno.

[PeregrineV]

@Rag- Does your role have a name?

[Empking]

@Rag- Does your role have a safe claim?

FTFY

[mikeburnfire]

Nobody here is even scumhunting anymore. You're just all trying to lynch an imaginary serial killer.

I bet I could moderate a game with 3 scum, 3 vanilla, and 6 vigs, and the mafia would win because the town would lynch themselves for being overpowered.

vote dramonic

. I learned nothing new from the mass claim, except that Thor sucks at fake-claiming.

[Empking]

MBF: You explaination for the night 1 results is...

[Ragnarokio]

Thor, is your role just vanilla?

My role name is NSA Agent John Casey

[Thor665]

vote dramonic

. I learned nothing new from the mass claim, except that Thor sucks at fake-claiming.

If I'm fakeclaiming shouldn't you be lynching me?

@Rag - no, I have explicitly said this.

[Thor665]

Unvote: dramonic

[Ragnarokio]

Then what's your role? Your ability is that it is implied that there is a dayvig in the game?

[Thor665]

@Rag - Empking already asked me the same thing, why are you expecting a different answer?
Yes - my role makes it very clear there is a pro town Dayvig.

[PeregrineV]

@Thor- The thought crossed my mind. If your not a doc, or are a doc that only protects from dayvigs, that sounds retarded and I wouldn't believe you.
Can you explain why your non-standard role hinges in any way shape or form on the existence of a vigilante that can kill during the day?

Unvote.
Vote: MoS

[Thor665]

If I was a doc that could protect from Dayvigs why would that make the Dayvig pro-town? It would be the opposite, yes?
Why MoS?

[PeregrineV]

@EmpKing- dichotomy in your posting:
Smart, insightful, makes me go hmmmmm, good point.

@Emp - explain what further? There should be a pro-town Day Vig or else my role makes very little sense.

But what is your role?

Also, I don't think I understand you Rag accusation there... I mean, I really don't understand how you came to that conclusion and how it makes Rag scummy. I might just be being stupid, could you clue me in?

Firstly,
* There are no unclaimed kills.
* The mafia did kill that night.
* Rag claimed the only kill

Therefore
* Rag claimed the mafia kill.

Ergo
* Rag is mafia.

makes me go "forealz?"

The first thing to come to mind is that mafia has the ability through Rag on odd nights to change their kill flavour to assasinated.

Also, can you comment on:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3132464

[mikeburnfire]

@Empking:

A cross-kill. Possible, as there is some confusion on how the MO is declared.
Somebody not claiming their doctor ability because their N1 target is already dead.
A mafia poisoner (kills take 2-3 nights to manifest).
Some unique mafia role that rewards inaction.

There's a lot possibilities. I will admit that Rag being the N1 mafia killer had crossed my mind, but it seems unlikely. If we're running under the assumption that town is really powerful, a killing restriction would not be something to counter-balance it. Also, still 100% sure on her character's flavor.

If I'm fakeclaiming shouldn't you be lynching me?

Nobody would join me.

[Thor665]

So you're certain the remaining scumteam is dram/Thor - or are you compromising here?
Also - why do you think my claim is fake?

[Ragnarokio]

@Thor: Please fullclaim

[Thor665]

@Rag - I will. But not prior till 9pm EST tonight. I'm still hoping the Vig wises up and claims, because between my power and his power we can deal with the you/mbf "vigs" and be looking very good going into tomorrow.

[Empking]

Peregrine What's wrong with the quote?

So the question is do we believe the neighbor vigs, the claimed cop, and/or the neighborizor?

Neighbor vigs
Why they could be town: Symmetry. Giving town a vig power but splitting it among two players to weaken/strengthen it. Make them neighbors to add confusion to roles and reduce the double vig power. No counterclaim for night2 (if the "real" vig killed ooba, they could claim and out the fake vigs as the mafia).
Why they could be scum: Their claim gives them everything the remaining scum players have- a QT and a NK.

Claimed cop
Why they could be town: Standard PR for town, pretty common and would seem to match name flavor, IMO.
Why they could be scum: All targets are dead, except EmpKing who is unconfirmed. Also, "neighbored" by MoS. This could be faked, obviously if Ant & MoS are scum. Ant could also fake it with lack of real cop counterclaim.

Neighborizor
Why they could be town: Role could give town another chance to confirm a town player if the neighborizor chooses correctly. Not a strong role otherwise, not doesn;t overpwer the town.
Why they could be scum: Step up from goon, so adds a little more power to mafia to counterbalance twin vigs. Generally the role is mostly given to mafia team.

P-edit: I'll address other posts separately if needed.

1. I don't think the remaining two mafia will link to each other.
2. I'm 95% sure Rag is Mafia. If he is then I think MBF, MOS and Ant are town.

MBF:

If we're running under the assumption that town is really powerful, a killing restriction would not be something to counter-balance it.

Isn't that against your point?