[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Silver1337]

3 Vanilla Townies.
1 Mafia Goon.
Night start.
lolol d1 lynch

[CSL]

@CSL: You're right, but I think encouraging bad vig play like that (on the night of MyLo, or the night before LyLo, I think optimal vig play is to NOT shoot) is not something the setup should be aiming to do.

That being said, not having the vig be compulsive isn't an idea I'm wedded to--if it'll help the game get put in the open queue, I'm happy to change it, but given the choice, I'd rather make the vig action elective rather than compulsory.

An elective vig is better, because it can choose not to shoot unless he's pretty sure of who scum is.

[Max]

@CSL: You're right, but I think encouraging bad vig play like that (on the night of MyLo, or the night before LyLo, I think optimal vig play is to NOT shoot) is not something the setup should be aiming to do.

That being said, not having the vig be compulsive isn't an idea I'm wedded to--if it'll help the game get put in the open queue, I'm happy to change it, but given the choice, I'd rather make the vig action elective rather than compulsory.

An elective vig is better, because it can choose not to shoot unless he's pretty sure of who scum is.

At the same time I like the idea that they *must* shoot.
They don't prevent a death altogether they just delay and move the death onto someone else.

[Quilford]

nth

DY's setup

[drmyshottyizsik]

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia RB

1 Doctor
1 Jailkeper
1 Hider
4 Townies

[Amrun]

Two protective roles? No.

[Quilford]

Two protective roles? No.

They can't protect each other.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Two protective roles? No.

They can't protect each other.

That was the point. Only one can be protected at a time.

[drmyshottyizsik]

thoughts anyone?

[I_Chew_On_Grass]

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia RB

1 Doctor
1 Jailkeper
1 Hider
4 Townies

It's ok. But What if yjr RB blocks the Jailkeper when the keeper keeps the RB?
How about this?
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia RoleCop

1 Doctor
1 Jailkeper
1 Hider
4 Townies

[ConSpiracy]

thoughts anyone?

Far too townsided.
It is one of the newbie game queue with an added hider and knows PR's. That's a lot to cope for the mafia.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Look at the results of newbie games. arround 75% are mafia wins. Also @ChewGrass- I like that.

[Haylen]

^ Hence one of the reasons why the setup got changed. Your statistics are only taking into account results from games prior to the new setup. If you look at the new setup results, however, you do not have a large enough sample side to support/contradict your hypothesis.

[drmyshottyizsik]

^ Hence one of the reasons why the setup got changed. Your statistics are only taking into account results from games prior to the new setup. If you look at the new setup results, however, you do not have a large enough sample side to support/contradict your hypothesis.

Good point. I was talking about the old set up. Sorry.

[I_Chew_On_Grass]

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia RoleCop

1 Doctor
1 Jailkeper
1 Hider
4 Townies

What's wrong with this set up?

[Hoopla]

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia RoleCop

1 Doctor
1 Jailkeper
1 Hider
4 Townies

What's wrong with this set up?

Day 1 massclaim is the optimal strategy, quite clearly. You have three confirmable town roles out of seven. Scum are either forced to allow three players to be confirmed, or must counterclaim in order to minimise confirmations - this isn't really wise though, as you set up a 50/50 between yourself and that town player, and at best live until Day 2. As such, Doctor/JK/Hider become confirmed town. Doctor protects Jailkeeper who in turn acts like a RB. Hider hides behind the pool of townies/mafia declaring its target in case it dies proving a scum.

[Hoopla]

Synergy Mafia

Mafia

(3)

2x Mafia Goons
1x Mafia Godfather/Bulletproof/2-Shot Roleblocker/Role Cop

Town

(10)

1x Cop/Vigilante
1x Innocent Child/Tracker
1x Bodyguard/Jailkeeper
7x Townies

~~

- Daystart
- Pregame, the Cop/Vig, IC/Tracker, BG/JK, GF/BP/RB/RC have to choose which role they'd like to be.
- Innocent Child (if selected) is announced at the start of D1 by the mod.
- GF has investigation immunity only to the cop.

[Quilford]

There's no way mafia would ever select to be the bulletproof or the godfather.

I also strongly doubt someone would elect to be innocent child.

[Hoopla]

There's no way mafia would ever select to be the bulletproof or the godfather.

I also strongly doubt someone would elect to be innocent child.

Really? I was worrying that picking the IC was far too obvious of a choice over the Tracker. Coupled with a hidden Jailkeeper, an IC is pretty handy.

I think you might have a point in regards to the mafia's option, though.

[Tragedy]

Bulletproof Godfather / 2-Shot Roleblocker / Mafia Role Cop works better.

[Slaxx]

Maybe make Innocent Child a Gunsmith? So they have a choice between two week investigative roles? I had an idea like this I pitched on a different site, would love to see it being ran. Innocent Child seems greatly more beneficial than Tracker.

[Slaxx]

Also, I think the godfather should show up innocent on the GS report if you do choose to do that, or at least add that option in, that way GS can't gather confirmed innocents, especially in the presence of a cop too.

[Hoopla]

Also, I think the godfather should show up innocent on the GS report if you do choose to do that, or at least add that option in, that way GS can't gather confirmed innocents, especially in the presence of a cop too.

I suppose the point of the set-up isn't to find exact matches between pairings. The strength of a role depends on what the other players pick, hence the title of the game. There might be combinations more favourable than others for town in isolation, which is why I've given mafia a deeper set of options to compensate for whatever town picks. This way, in the event of multiple runs of the set-up, if a pattern, or belief of what is "optimal" for town surfaces, it enables mafia to pick the best matching option, thus forcing town to eventually start changing it up based on what mafia picks, which naturally balances the set-up. It's just a matter of finding the right variables though.

[DarthYoshi]

Hoopla--I'm actually fine with the IC/tracker choice, if anything, I might give the Maf PR playslot a choice of a Hitman ability to counter it.

I agree with Quil that there is no reason why the maf PR would choose GF or BP; maybe take them out and give it the Hitman choice (making the Hitman 1, 2, etc -shot if need be for balance)?

I do like the concept an awful lot, though. If the maf PR slot can be tweaked, I'll gladly nominate it.

[DarthYoshi]

@CSL: You're right, but I think encouraging bad vig play like that (on the night of MyLo, or the night before LyLo, I think optimal vig play is to NOT shoot) is not something the setup should be aiming to do.

That being said, not having the vig be compulsive isn't an idea I'm wedded to--if it'll help the game get put in the open queue, I'm happy to change it, but given the choice, I'd rather make the vig action elective rather than compulsory.

An elective vig is better, because it can choose not to shoot unless he's pretty sure of who scum is.

At the same time I like the idea that they *must* shoot.
They don't prevent a death altogether they just delay and move the death onto someone else.

That's a fair point, and I think it is a really intriguing role concept; I just don't know how to properly balance that for situations like MyLo or whatnot.

I think the setup has only been nommed and 2nded (by CSL and Quil respectively), if I can coerce/bribe/enchant someone else into 3rding/nthing it, I'd be a very happy evil dinosaur.