Chuck Season 1 - GAME OVER

[Thor665]

@Thor - please look at the current gamestate. Please look at the last three days of play. Please look at the vote spread. Please do something pro town and drop your tunnel fishing so we can move forward.

Moving forward at this state includes the possibility of lynching MBF, so...

I can see how you might be frustrated at MBF being so stubborn, but you should be able to see, as a player that usually actually thinks things through, that MBF is far more likely to be town with-holding information than mafia or serial killer. Killing MBF will be killing a town power role, and could cost us more than just the loss of a vig shot. He isn't going to claim because he knows that the information is valuable enough that it shouldn't be released. You can doubt this all you want, but by pressuring him and advocating his lynch, you're being anti-town, and you could cost the town it's game because you didn't step down before MBF did.

Conversation about getting MBF to claim isn't ever going to get anywhere. You'll end up killing him before he claims, so I'd stop with the information push. It's a waste of time and will just stagnate real discussion. The only reason you should be attacking MBF is because you think he's scum.

Done.
Also, if he's town who would rather die than reveal his precious super secret role information that will destroy town if ever they know about it - WHY DID HE CLAIM TO HAVE NOT FULL CLAIMED YET?
Either town should know, or scum shouldn't know. Those are the two types of information. If scum shouldn't know *and* town shouldn't know than there is less than zero reaasons for hinting that you're any more than you already did.

Also, second Emp's question.

[mikeburnfire]

Rag, don't fall into their fishing trap. Thor and Dramonic might be relentless, but you and I, as well as other townies, can continue to move the game forward. I've defended myself from SK accusations, given my thoughts on mass claiming, done a rough player analysis, and formed a night plan with Ant, while Thor has chosen to stop the game. Since I would rather die than give the scum more information, Thor will continue to force the game's focus onto my role. And hey, if he's successful and we waste the day, at least Ant and I can fix it.

The best course of action, instead of responding to him, would be to give your opinions on players, and express approval/disapproval of the night plan with Ant.

MBF: Who am I voting right now?

I believe that would be dramonic, as the Delibird vote would carry over. So when I said "Mos, if scum, won't vote him until necessary", I could have been wrong. Or maybe you're town afterall. Although, your reason was weak, and it could very well have been bussing. Either way, you're seeming less and less likely to be scum than Thor.

[Thor665]

@MBF - why did you drop a hint to something you considered anti-town to have town know?

Also, congrats on noting your defender is doing absolutely nothing but defending you. Not that she's ever done anything very proactive in the game.

[mikeburnfire]

Continuing to ignore Thor and his strawmen.

mikeburnfire (4): Thor665, Empking, dramonic, PeregrineV,
dramonic (2): Mastermind of Sin, mikeburnfire
PeregrineV (1): Ant_to_the_max
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio

Not voting: N/A

With

8

alive it takes

5

to lynch!
Deadline is in (expired on 2011-06-20 01:00:00).

[Thor665]

It's a strawman to want to know why you would drop hints about something that you thought would hurt town if you revealed and would never wish to reveal? No - that's actually a very reasonable question to ask.
Let's lynch MBF.

[xRECKONERx]

PeregrineV (1): Ant_to_the_max
dramonic (2): Mastermind of Sin, mikeburnfire
Thor665 (1): Ragnarokio
mikeburnfire (4): Thor665, Empking, dramonic, PeregrineV

Not voting:

Notes:
Ant_to_the_max has limited access until June 25th.
With

8

alive it takes

5

to lynch!
Deadline is in (expired on 2011-06-20 01:00:00).

[dramonic]

I'm trying to understand what part of "neighbor vig with assassination for a flavor who drops info he won't tell in a hope to live longer when he really doesn't have extra info" is too town for Ant or MoS (ironically the OTHER neighbors) to hammer.
No really, what the hell is this?

@MBF: You've defended yourself from the SK accusations... how exactly? Also you're saying Rag is playing some great game in the QT, but here all she's done is go "dont bother mbffffffffffffffff!" so do everyone a favor and if you're not going to drop dead like you should switch her around and spout her useless stuff in the QT and hunt in the thread, kthx.

[mikeburnfire]

@MBF: You've defended yourself from the SK accusations... how exactly?

Here

[mikeburnfire]

An additional reason is that, as a Serial Killer, I'm badass. In the two times I've been, I won Mini 532, and almost won Mini 1022 (town was stupid and handed the game to the mafia).

So there.

[Thor665]

It's a strawman to want to know why you would drop hints about something that you thought would hurt town if you revealed and would never wish to reveal?

If you are a Vig and town I HATE YOU!
FUGGIN' ANSWER!

[Thor665]

@Ant - look at my last post, explain why it's pro town that MBF refuses to respond to this question. Explain why he's town.

MoS - same question as Ant.

Rag - same question as Ant.

[Thor665]

Oh, and you want to know what helps town - knowing things.
What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.
This is a very important day in the game and MBF is playing "neener, neener, I've got a secret" which is so drastically anti-town I would love to describe internet tough guy things I would do to him in person.

[Empking]

Oh, and you want to know what helps town - knowing things.
What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.

+1

[Thor665]

Look - friggin' even if everybody wants to put their pants on their heads and think I'm possible scumbuddies with dana - you have a friggin' confirmed town thinking the same thing - answer the question for him if not for me or start getting serious about GF discussion.

[mikeburnfire]

You won't be satisfied until I've done everything you've demanded, and since I've already refused to submit to your demands, answering your questions is a waste of my time. Your words are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.

No shit, huh? That's probably why I claimed and explained that the two kills were mine and the mafia killed Ooba, instead of letting everyone run around like a chicken with its head cut off.

[dramonic]

Quite frankly, I can't believe how ridiculous this has gotten. Dram and Thor are either idiots or scum, perhaps both.

Probably neither.

We're here, trying to figure out who the scum are, and I tell you that I have information that implies that Rag is town. Suddenly, you bring the game to a standstill until I full claim. If this game really is "stalling", it's because you're stalling it.

Translation: I COULD confirm Rag, and I'll say I can, but I won't do it.
Super pro-town move!

I wasn't under any suspicion at the time of my vig claim. In fact, everybody seemed to be confused about who killed who. A serial killer would have taken advantage of this confusion. I claimed in order to clear it up.

Rag was under suspicion at the time of my vig claim. I risked my neck to vouch for her towniness, and am sticking by it, something a serial killer would not do.

Everybody was talking about how Magua and RC were obv town, and that anyone who killed them is probably scum. I claimed to be their killer. Is this a smart SK move?

So I heard of this thing, it's called innovation. Ever heard of it? It's often affiliated with WIFOM.

I'm standing firm. I can't give you anymore information without giving away Rag's role (hint: not vanilla).

From my perspective there are only two possible logical options here, both of them make absolutely zero sense from a balance PoV if you're town, but make a shitload of it if you're scum/SK. Since it's in fashion, I won't say what they are, since it might give away Rag's role.

Either you believe me to be town and take me at my word that Rag is highly likely to be town too, or go against everything logical and waste a lynch on me.

Your "everything logical" is you saying you have a reason to believe she is town. Scumhunting and blindly taking you at your word is NOT logical. I don't think you're town, I think you're a SK. If by any chance you flip scum, all the freakin better, but that's unlikely since you claimed the extra kills.

I'll be very blunt.
If you're scum, I want you dead.
If you're SK, I want you dead.
If you're town and lying, you're an idiot and deserve to die
If you're town and truthful, your death will guarantee Rag a safe spot in lategame, assuming she doesn't get violently slaughtered by the scum (and if she does that's your fault for painting the biggest friggin target ever on her back)

If we choose not to lynch you and you're SK, we're in prisoner dilemna. If we choose not to lynch you and you're town, I still won't have any solid reason to trust your read on Rag because your play has been pretty damn fucked up from my own perspective for a pro-town role.

Basically, if you're town and won't tell me why I should believe you, then I'd much rather have you die as your flip will give me a reason with the extra bonus of not having to worry about you being a SK or a potential prisoner dilemna.
If you're a serial killer, you're too close to your wincon for me to not take the risk.
If you're town, we're not quite close enough to a loss for me to consider the risk too steep.

[dramonic]

Oh, and you want to know what helps town - knowing things.
What hurts town? Being confused and in the dark about things.
This is a very important day in the game and MBF is playing "neener, neener, I've got a secret" which is so drastically anti-town I would love to describe internet tough guy things I would do to him in person.

Honest opinion, I can easily imagine what kind of mysterious stuff he wants to hide from the town AS town.
Except I won't believe in it until I have a reason to think he's not a serial killer (barring his WIFOM).

And the two ways that happens is if Ant checks him (and even then that's debatable) or if he dies.
And we have no guarantee that Ant will not die tonight anyways.
And he's been a pretty lousy shot so far as vig
And if he's SK and we don't lynch him we're in PD tomorrow.

He's a player whose death will either confirm someone as town or insure we dont go hitting PD tomorrow

[mikeburnfire]

Are you anti-mass claim then, dramonic?

[dramonic]

I'm against a mass-claim right now.
Also for clarity's sake, if your great secret is anything like what I envision, it's absolutely irrelevant to my desire to lynch you. Actually if it's anything like what I envision I'd rather lynch you without you saying it in case you flip town

[Thor665]

You won't be satisfied until I've done everything you've demanded, and since I've already refused to submit to your demands, answering your questions is a waste of my time. Your words are full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Dodge, duck, dive, dip, and...dodge.

It's a very simple question, you're really working hard to ignore this one. I'm not even asking you to claim in this question (though I'd rather you did) I'm asking you to explain your pro-town decision. Y'know, that should be simple to do, right?

[mikeburnfire]

Fine.

@MBF - why did you drop a hint to something you considered anti-town to have town know?

This is the strawman in question. In the beginning of this whole debacle, you jumped to the conclusion that I had fully claimed. I threw out an "oh, really?" to signify that maybe I had, maybe I hadn't. I wanted to keep the scum guessing, but then you lost your goddamn mind.

You've been incessant on how likely I am to be a serial killer, despite how illogical that would be. Anything I say or do to defend myself gets chalked up as WIFOM, so the only way to save myself is to out my buddy Rag, which I won't do. I'll take that info to my grave, (exactly like a serial killer would do!).

Now unless you have something worthwhile for me to address, I'm going to make good on my claim to ignore you (and dramonic). I've already revealed a lot of information on my role, given my analysis of individual players, addressed who I think are the scummiest, and made a night action plan with Ant, all while defending myself (quite thoroughly) from the constant barrage of serial killer accusations while teetering on the brink of being mislynched. I'm satisfied with my play.

[dramonic]

Would "town has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much power" be a decent reason to think you're a serial killer?

Or would "you have a kill and somehow can confirm yourself to a role build specifically to avoid confirmation" be?
Or would "two town players sharing a kill is insanely powerful, add to that the fact that AFAWK follow the cop WORKS HERE" be?

Your claim timing may be off for a serial killer, every other sign in the game point there.

[mikeburnfire]

We didn't share a kill. Rag didn't know that I was a vig until quite recently. I didn't trust her enough to tell her.

And 'way too much power'? I disagree. One cop, one vig, and one protective or restrictive type role isn't too much, considering the mafia had a roleblocker and probably has a GF. Unless you think neighbors are really powerful.

Although, I wonder...
MoS, Ant, do you know each others' flavor?

[dramonic]

cop, vig, neighborizer, mystery role x, protector of sort.
that's a lot.

@Rag: Do you have ANY reason to believe MBF is town outside of personal read?

[Thor665]

This is the strawman in question. In the beginning of this whole debacle, you jumped to the conclusion that I had fully claimed. I threw out an "oh, really?" to signify that maybe I had, maybe I hadn't. I wanted to keep the scum guessing, but then you lost your goddamn mind.

So...your goal, as a claimed Vig, was to get the scum to be *more* scared of you...while there's a theory doc out there? And then you were unwilling just to go 'lol, naw, I'm just a Vig' when you saw that multiple (not just me or this wagon wouldn't exist) but multiple players lost their minds? Good pro-town focus keeping the scum off balance there, champ.

I've already revealed a lot of information on my role, given my analysis of individual players, addressed who I think are the scummiest, and made a night action plan with Ant, all while defending myself (quite thoroughly) from the constant barrage of serial killer accusations while teetering on the brink of being mislynched. I'm satisfied with my play.

If you flip town we'll re-visit how satisfying your play was considering you shot RC and Magua.
I also addressed your plan with Ant, ook like three seconds, the plan sucks. You never addressed EMp's reply to your plan with an alternate plan though. So...good job on that?
You actually didn't really make any cases, you zipped through a couple of them and just said 'lol scum'

Now that MBF is backing off of his very pro-town suggestion he had more powers he refused to reveal he is either *immensely* buying into Ant as town or is indeed a SK.

Okay, so what do we have?

"Vig"/Neighbor
not vanilla/Neighbor (verified by other neighbor who loves to confuse town to act pro town)
Cop
Theory Doc
Neighborizer
Whatever roles the unclaimed players have (That's Thor, Emp, Pere, and dram)

Vs.

Mafia Roleblocker
and whatever else the mafia have.

Last night Mafia had just lost their roleblocker, and had a claimed cop and a claimed confirmable PR. They shot at a confirmed town...
However, yesterday, Ant and MoS were both on at interesting points to help push the dana wagon ahead of the MoS wagon. Clearly not scum together, Ant looks even better for the move as he did have a vote on town Magua and opted for the shift at a pivotal point. MoS was working enough of a bus I find it unlikely for him to be scumbuddies with dana as well. Rag is actually pretty town too, and looks faaaar more town than MBF sadly enough.

I'm leaning CDB - Pere - MBF as possible SK.

Unvote: MBF
Vote: Dramonic

I could still actually lynch MBF pretty easy, if someone else get on there and puts him in hammer range I'm 98% likely to do it and laugh afterwards.
If MBF is Vig he would benefit town by not shooting tonight. If he has to shoot I would tend to point towards Pere, but would strongly advise against it unless Dram flips scum.