DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[ooba]

Airbase is antitown crap that no town should take..

This is wrong.

ooba has done even less than usual ITT, plus he tried to swing it so that Total War was mathematically better

Total War IS quantitatively better - you get more shots at scum. The tradeoff is 9 shots vs 5 or 3 extra scum kills.

People made qualitative arguments such as
- Nuke shots will be better if we have two days worth of info
- Power roles will get revealed by not nuking before they have a chance to use the power role

Didn't see the point in arguing since I didn't see a unanimous decision on Total War.

And what does "less than usual" mean? Compared to MetaMafia where I made 5 big posts on D1? This is pre-game and I've commented on the two issues which are important
- Total War vs Non Total War
- Which troops town should aim for

---

Avox, what are you talking about?
Give me a Nuke over
- CI
- Fail Safe
- Fallout shelter
- eavesdrop
anyday .. Let scum have those powers if they want .. Think of it this way - it's One semi-lynch over something like CI which is of no use to town and minimal use to scum ..

[AurorusVox]

Avox, what are you talking about?

If you don't want a nuke

then you should put every power on your list at some point.

[ooba]

Avox, what are you talking about?

If you don't want a nuke

then you should put every power on your list at some point.

Hmm ok. But there is no reason why anyone should not want a nuke unless they are trading it off for the good-average powers:
Submarine
Air Base
Espionage
Aircraft Carrier
Battleship
Fighter
Radar

I reiterate - choosing Fallout Shelter, Fail Safe, eavesdrop, CI over a Nuke is a sub-optimal and anti-town move for town.

[inHimshallibe]

Mina is a "I promised content and haven't given any" thing. Removable upon the time she actually, you k ow, provides the promised content.

You are scum for your misrepresentation of Vi, calling Gamma town, and then turning around and calling him scum based off something ridiculous. Vi and Gamma ARE suspicious, but not for the reasons you give. Which makes me go "hmmmm"

I think you misinterpreted my response to gamma on this page which was calling mina scum, not gamma. Skimmah.

And seriously, I misrepped Vi. What is this.

[Swift Justice]

Mina is a "I promised content and haven't given any" thing. Removable upon the time she actually, you k ow, provides the promised content.

lol

[Vi]

People who need to hang from the highest tree:

(...)
Gamma

wat

Regfan is scum for saying "we should organize our claims" and then not a thing to help it.

I'm still attempting to fully grasp the benefits and negatives of each role, I don't think that puts me in any position to lead an organisation.

Just allocate four players to first pick each of the roles. According to how this 'works', there is probably only one of the four players scum and so town picks up every power role.

There are a few issues with this, mafia will be able to still organise themselves to recieve a decent amount of powers and they'll know which power is within which group of players.

The issue you're pointing out to Ludi doesn't exist (other players can put the various powers at #1 as well) and it's probably too late to be talking about this anyway.
Less talking, more reads.

---

ooba:
Fair enough on Total War being quantitatively better. Without it, Town gets two kills and scum get three kills.

And what does "less than usual" mean? Compared to MetaMafia where I made 5 big posts on D1? This is pre-game and I've commented on the two issues which are important
- Total War vs Non Total War
- Which troops town should aim for

It's analysis. I'd rather have reads than analysis. (Four out of your six reads are bad, btw.)

[inHimshallibe]

Vi, let's make amends. Lld is scum

[inHimshallibe]

, yeah?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Vi, let's make amends. Lld is scum

ITT Inhim will make alliances with his "scum reads" to lynch anyone who might consider nuking him.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Gamma's ISO 7-10 make him suspicious. The way he attempts to give some kind of valid reason for town to have their Silos in defensive positions screams scum.

Especially the line where he states that "if you feel that a town member is tunneling on you".

It's just setting off bells.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ebwop: "if you feel a town member is tunneling on you, it's justified."

[AurorusVox]

Hmm ok. But there is no reason why anyone should not want a nuke unless they are trading it off for the good-average powers:
Submarine
Air Base
Espionage
Aircraft Carrier
Battleship
Fighter
Radar

I reiterate - choosing Fallout Shelter, Fail Safe, eavesdrop, CI over a Nuke is a sub-optimal and anti-town move for town.

Yes, but I don't see what you're making a fuss out of. I'm not saying put anti-town powers higher than pro-town powers. I'm saying that IF you are choosing a non-nuke, you may as well rank all the others powers on your roster too.

Eavesdrop seemed to be useful for town in DEFCON 2.0 at least. Don't write it completely out, but it takes a certain mindset to be able to crack whatever codes the scum inevitably use.

[Toogeloo]

Just my two cents on those of you still trying to pick your deployments.

I would argue that Counter-Intelligence isn't going to be as high on the scum lists as anyone may think. A good scum team will have already established crypto and the framing is a crap shoot each night in most cases. It's useful, but not a required to get power for them in any way, and without the super cracker (Percy) in this game, Eavesdrop may not be as scary to them.

Coming from someone who put every role in the game on his list in the last game and still got a Silo, I will also push that you make sure that the one you absolutely think you have the best shot at, or the one you absolutely want to contest the most, is in the number one position. Make the decision as to whether you are going to contest a role or try and pick one you don't think others are going to pick. Because after that first pick, your odds of getting your second pick are abysmally low, and you will likely end up with a Silo.

[Vi]

Vi, let's make amends. Lld is scum

I said that before, didn't I?~

You should be dancin'

, yeah?

I don't really have a problem with Gammagooey trying to defend Defensu Modo because the situation he described in #9 sounded reasonable at the time. It's just that the combination of someone being obvTown enough to get away with it and

consciously choosing ahead of time not to try to nuke someone that Day

is more or less not going to happen. The part about not getting dead'd from tunneling Townies is poorly thought out on a handful of levels, granted.

'Anything else to come from the Lemon Press and Toogs Report?

[danakillsu]

I'd like to take the opportunity to say right now that a hez lynch cannot possibly be something I will regret at this point. If you're town, hez, please don't take the Submarine or something, cause you're so anti-town that you're going to be lynched eventually.

[SpyreX]

Look at all the dead people.

THAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED COWARDS.

239 is a beautiful flower.

[Mina]

I come bearing still no content. My idealistic hope was that I could singlehandedly break the game with a Battleship-protects-Espionage-who-clears-a-player-who-is-declared-sole-survivor-when-Armageddon-comes plan, and thus coast to victory without having to do any scumhunting whatsoever. But then I realized that I forgot about Counterintelligence, and then that I'm too lazy to actually assign people draft lists or calculate statistics or account for a billion other role interactions. Therefore, while you valiant hardworking townies are proving your devotion to the American cause by discussing the relative merits of Radar vs. Fighters vs. Eavesdrop, I am just going to lurk in the shadows until DEFCON 3, a shady non-contributor with possible European or terrorist sympathies.

(Actually, just one thought: silo is objectively better than half the roles on the list,

but

something that really put a lot of pressure on the scum last game was that it was a de facto smalltown game by Day Three. Everyone knew just who had a nuke, and there was no leeway to fakeclaim. This is more a factor for catching the Europeans than the terrorist, but as wide a spread of roles as possible is probably optimal.)

However, Swift, I would be very interesting in knowing exactly how you managed to wrangle a town read from me after one "Post later." Are you scum again, Faraday?

Oh, and where did your LLD scum read come from?

[Katsuki]

Just my two cents on those of you still trying to pick your deployments.

I would argue that Counter-Intelligence isn't going to be as high on the scum lists as anyone may think. A good scum team will have already established crypto and the framing is a crap shoot each night in most cases. It's useful, but not a required to get power for them in any way, and without the super cracker (Percy) in this game, Eavesdrop may not be as scary to them.

Coming from someone who put every role in the game on his list in the last game and still got a Silo, I will also push that you make sure that the one you absolutely think you have the best shot at, or the one you absolutely want to contest the most, is in the number one position. Make the decision as to whether you are going to contest a role or try and pick one you don't think others are going to pick. Because after that first pick, your odds of getting your second pick are abysmally low, and you will likely end up with a Silo.

Panda makes a good point about Eavesdrop. Without Percy, the effectiveness does drop significantly. I would urge anyone who is good at breaking codes to give Eavesdrop a try though, as there is a HUGE difference in scum having eavesdrop and town having it (just ask yourselves, would you talk more freely as scum KNOWING that your QT is safe vs unsafe?).

Counterintellegence secures scum QT for one gameday. How about we make claiming counterintellegence a scumclaim and be done with that? (AKA, NUKE ON SITE).

[Katsuki]

People who need to stop being DERPS and look at the real scum:

Fate!hydra

LOL

[Swift Justice]

However, Swift, I would be very interesting in knowing exactly how you managed to wrangle a town read from me after one "Post later." Are you scum again, Faraday?

Oh, and where did your LLD scum read come from?

I'm never scum, so no. Your post shows you're at least thinking about breaking the game - townish, there's then the fact you as scum would have to come up with some sort of legit sounding gamebreaking plan, I just don't see Minascum opening like that. I also tend to notice in your town games you like to talk/think about the mechanics to some degree, you did in metamafia and of gods and men too, I think as scum you'd probably be less interested in discussing that.

LLD scumread came from me reading her posts, where else would it come from?

I like Katsuki's counterintelligence plan, actually. Nuking on site is always a good option.

[Swift Justice]

I'd like to take the opportunity to say right now that a hez lynch cannot possibly be something I will regret at this point. If you're town, hez, please don't take the Submarine or something, cause you're so anti-town that you're going to be lynched eventually.

OH GOD STOP THE PAIN IT BURNS IT BURNS.

[Swift Justice]

Ooba's also probably town. His wiki lacks scum games with funky mechanics to check, but he tends to veer into this sort of set-up talk as town quite a lot. I mean he spent the whole fucking first day of Encore mafia making lists.

[Katsuki]

Because I know people will miss it,

CLAIMING COUNTERINTELLEGENCE IS A SCUMCLAIM AND WILL BE NUKED ON SIGHT.

Don't take it.

[Swift Justice]

hey dana is HEZZZZZZZZZZ just a bad townie?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

hey dana is HEZZZZZZZZZZ just a bad townie?

No worse that you this game.

LLD scumread came from me reading her posts, where else would it come from?

Citation needed.