Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[Incognito]

vote: Green Crayons

, gently.

Obvscum.

[Incognito]

Actually...

unvote, vote: TripMyWire
Gentle FoS: Green Crayons

Serious vote.

[Incognito]

Why is this serious?

Vote Incognito

BANDWAGON GO GO!

I claim to have a serious vote on someone and you join a wagon on me instead of the person I'm serious voting? Odd.

Anyway, TripMyWire was on around the same time I was earlier this morning and didn't post in the thread despite the fact that the mod sent PMs to everyone saying that the game had started. I thought it was a good choice for a vote as a result.



FTR, I haven't seen the movie yet either, but I too will be watching it this weekend.

Oh, PS: I have been listening to Radiohead all week.

Have I ever told you that I love you?

[Incognito]

Green Crayons: Yes, I do.

I only have one reservation against not finding it suspicious, but I'd like to see what Trip has to say about it before saying it.

[Incognito]

I was pretty sure Magua was joking around but whatever.

The "very serious" is in relation to "not daykilling Camn if she votes for Yosarian." Not to actually confirming I have a daykill.

I don't really see the difference there.
I mean, the above obviously implies that if camn DOESN'T vote Yosarian2 she could be daykilled by you.
Unless you're saying you'd be equally "very serious" about "not daykilling camn if she

doesn't

vote for Yosarian2" as well which is pretty weasel word-ish.




@Lain: Why no vote?

[Incognito]

I didn't realize your 'serious vote' was actually serious.

I don't really see why not.

Anyone feel like a mass-nameclaim?

unvote, vote: camn

(reference)

[Incognito]

Fact is, it you said it was a serious vote and didn't give any reasons: I find it scummy when people do that.

I don't know which inconsistency's worse at this point: camn's or Haylen's.

1)

camn

2)

Haylen

Original Roll String: 1d2

1 2-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

[Incognito]

Thanks, dice.

unvote, vote: Haylen

[Incognito]

You're trying to say that you wouldn't follow someone who doesn't explain their vote because you find unexplained votes scummy in their own right but yet I'm showing a picture perfect example that shows quite the contrary.

^in words.

[Incognito]

To contextualize:

- In the camn-link, I'm showing a past game where the idea of a mass name claim was floated around and a camn town was strongly opposed to it. In our current game, she now seems to be pro-mass name claim. I'm trying to figure out why there's a difference.

- In the Haylen-link, I'm showing a past game where I actually voted someone without listing reasons and a Haylen town (IN HER VERY NEXT POST) quickly followed my vote and placed a vote on the same guy I reasonless voted for. In this game she's claiming that she both a) finds reasonless votes scummy and b) wouldn't follow my vote if I didn't provide a reason for it. It makes me think she's not being sincere.

- How do you feel about Trip's explanation? Does it fit into your "one reservation?"

Not to crazy about it. It's not like the random vote that Trip did eventually place after becoming unbusy could have been all that time-consuming; it wasn't exactly groundbreaking or anything along those lines.
My "reservation" was me thinking that maybe the "Who's Online" list wasn't being accurate, but Trip's admitting that he did get the PM but chose not to post anyway, which tosses that out the window.

[Incognito]

@Trip: It's along the lines of what GC said - most scum often have to THINK more about what they'd like to say before they post it. Most town don't have that same kind of problem.

Anywho, any thoughts about what's been going on now outside of that early stuff?

@camn: You look like you're backtracking pretty hard. You don't think there's any pro-town benefit towards mass name claiming but you somehow knew there would definitely be benefit to ASKING about it? That's your defense?

Relative to the camn case, I think it's the weaker of the two.

Please explain what you had to hide and what you were lying about. You don't have to go into great detail, just some context for your comments, please.

Otherwise I don't know what the hell you two are talking about so I have no basis to make any sort of judgment.

How do these two match up?

[Incognito]

Camn, was I pushing your lynch using that single data point?
No.
I remembered something that happened in the past that made me think you were being inconsistent, and I voted you for it to turn up the pressure and to get some answers.
You should know my playstyle by now; when I see something that I notice as being off, I prod and probe it to try and find out what's going on.
Why would you think me pointing that out is scummerific of me?
I'd think it'd be more scummerific of me to let something like that just go.

Anywho, now that you've brought up some more recent stuff, fair enough on the stuff I brought up on the past then.

FYI, I'd argue that this game never even HAD an RVS, so I don't think you needed to ask that kind of question to break us out of anything, but I guess that's beside the point.

How does the first part jive with the second part? Or do you not get the part that the "implication" is, in fact, the joke?

Maybe I'm missing something 'cause I still don't get it.

[Incognito]

Hmmm, where the heck are MehPlusRawr and Pine?

[Incognito]

Don't ever do that as Town again.

Uh... is this almost too blatant to be a slip? How do you know camn is town here?

FOS: Incognito

: Weird first couple of posts, then the dice-rolling to decide who was scummier. Not liking it.

Explain further.

[Incognito]

I've become increasingly paranoid in games to the point of refusing to believe power roles aren't scum pretending to be power roles and cop results because YOU NEVER KNOW WHO'S TRYING TO SCREW YOU OVER.

Right... That's why you "congratulated" me on my camn-find and voted her almost as quickly as you "congratulated" me (p.s. I'm being sarcastic).

That doesn't make sense, because if you were probing hard enough, you would have looked into camn's current meta to establish a full picture. Since camn has explained her new meta, I'm not quite sure why your vote is still on her.

I'm not even voting her anymore; I'm voting you.
Further, why would I take all this time and energy to look into current meta when I'm not even pushing for camn's lynch at this point? That'd be dumb.

-~-~-~

bvoigt <-> Pine seems like nothing more than a semantics disagreement. That said, I don't see what Trip and Green Crayons are seeing about Pine's "slip"; I don't think Pine's use of the word "if" there is exactly the same way Trip has described it.

Pine: A response to my 81 would be lovely.

[Incognito]

I'd normally agree with you but some of his indignance following that post is making me think he actually believes in what he's saying. Which is kinda stupid and scary coming from him, but I can't ignore that.

[Incognito]

Pine, I think the problem people are running into is this: your definition of "anti-town" is vastly different from everyone else's in this game.

Everyone else in this game is defining "anti-town" as something that could hinder town but that could come from

either

town or scum. Whereas your definition has anti-town being a complete synonym with "scummy." I used to think of the two words as being synonymous too when I first started playing Mafia, but I realize now that there is a pretty strong difference.

I don't think you should replace out over it though.

[Incognito]

I'm actually liking bvoigt so far; the thing he pointed out in his post 100 about Haylen was something I was thinking as well along with some of the "qualifier" stuff he pointed out recently about Trip too. I'm stunned that Green Crayons apparently has a town read on Trip; Trip seems flat-out neutral maybe even leaning slightly scummy if anything.

I no longer have a problem with Pine; I'm beginning to think he's likely town.

@Magua:

I noticed you voted Peregrine for "terribad posting" but you yourself never commented on what you thought of that Haylen-stuff I mentioned. Did you just disagree with it or something?



Medicated Lain, Battle Mage, MehPlusRawr: sometime this year would be nice.

[Incognito]

Yo, GC, since nobody else asked, what's up with the Battle Mage vote anyway?

[Incognito]

Trip, qualifiers are the things bvoigt bolded in his last post. It's like you'll say something about someone but then add something that completely counterbalances the thing you said about the person.

For example, if I said something like "Haylen is obvscum" (which, I should add, she pretty much is) but then added something at the end of it like "but I can understand why she might do that as town" that'd be a qualifier.

It's like you're trying to avoid stepping on people's toes.

[Incognito]

Trip, Haylen is obvscum because she's pretty obviously making up stuff as she goes along. The meta thing was one piece of evidence, but if you read along with my post 14 you'll see me pointing out more of her making stuff up as she goes along too.

The other reason why I think Haylen is obvscum has to do with meta, which I don't expect you to know about -- Haylen tends to get much more emotional and all over the place as town but in this game she seems fairly stable, which is scummy for her. Plus there's the fact that everyone and their mother hasn't attacked her yet, which would have happened already if she was town.

I don't really see why me finding her to be obvscum would be worthy of a vote though; that kind of came out of nowhere.




@BM, it's tomorrow. Can you provide that reasoning now?

[Incognito]

Really not seeing it camn. What do you think of his reactions? What do you think of his choice of people to suspect so far?

[Incognito]

Actually it shows him blowing up on people, nearly requesting replacement, AND suspecting three people that I wouldn't expect a hypothetical scum with his join date to dare to suspect in a game like this.

[Incognito]

Prod avoidance post.

Will catch up tomorrow.

[Incognito]

I think I'm just about caught up again.

BM, if I understand your case against me, you're basically saying that my attack on Haylen looks contrived because you think Haylen hadn't put forth much in the way of content to be considered "stable" and not "all over the place." If that's the case then I disagree with you; the Haylen that I know would be doing all kinds of silly stuff on the first few pages like claiming to be an octupusduckgoosehenchicken with laser beams shooting out of its ass and NOT producing actual reads like she did in say, her post 96. That's the kind of thing I'm noticing when I say she seems stable so far.

Separate post to follow.

[Incognito]

Why is it that you would suspect such a high level of play from him, yet have no such expectations from Haylen?

Ummmm... posting when you're supposed to (i.e. when the mod opens up the damn game thread) is considered a "high level of play??" Wow.

Assuming that's what you mean there, then, uh, I guess it just has to do with what I know Haylen for (see my last post in response to BM's hate). I don't know Trip, but I think I did incorrectly assume that he was much more than a newbie since I only looked at his join date rather than looking into past games of his or anything along those lines.

I don't have the Incognito hate, but I wouldn't shed tears at an Incognito lynch.

Uh why?

Ok ok, I've finally decided I'm gonna do one more post after this one so that it won't be one huge text wall.

[Incognito]

After reading the last few pages, I think Peregrine looks particularly bad; it's pretty obvious that Peregrine put little to no thought behind his post 184 when he produced his three scumreads:

As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

Man, you're not even

trying.

Let's turn up the heat.

unvote, vote: PeregrineV

Preview edit: Peregrine, I don't think the ordering matters there. You pretty clearly said that Pine was one of your three scumreads and then later in response to GC you listed Pine as completely null alignment-wise. It just doesn't look sincere. Explain in some detail what you were thinking when you posted those reads, please.

Other thoughts: Haylen continues to look like scum. Yosarian2's latest posting looks really town. bvoigt still looks town. And... drum roll please: I could see Green Crayons as scum, but he told me to be gentle in the queue. Damnit.

I don't know what to think of Battle Mage yet or Medicated Lain, but I expect that to change.

[Incognito]

Peregrine, what I'm trying to say is the order in which you said those two things about Pine doesn't matter in this case. It just doesn't make sense for you to list Pine as a "scumread" and then later on call him completely null alignment-wise when the guy didn't really do anything in between. For me, that shows a lack of sincerity on your part which is scummy.

And I didn't actually copy BM's wording; I hadn't even realized he used the exact same phrase when I typed it out myself.

Why do you think you've found it difficult to assimilate with this game?

I'm very well assimilated with this game. I was joking just now when I mentioned that thing about trying to be gentle on GC. The thing that's bugging me about him in this game is I don't really feel like he's come out and out-and-out attacked anyone just yet like I would expect him to as town. He seems to be asking a lot of questions and stuff, but I'm kind of waiting for this mega-awesome case that a GC-town probably would've made by now, and he just hasn't done that.

[Incognito]

Not really sure what to make of MehPlusRawr's replacing out - I'd say it's a slight scum-tell if anything. I'm interested in seeing the thoughts of whoever it is that replaces in (looks like Fugitive if the replacement list is correct).


@Haylen and camn: You've both now said that you're "leaving each other alone for now." camn, you've explained why you're doing so but Haylen, why are you? And since you're saying that, does that mean you find camn scummy? If so, why?

[Incognito]

Not feeling the Pine-hate; I think he's likely town. He's being pretty silly right now but town.

Sadly, Haylen could possibly be town too based on interactions with BM, but I want to see her finish that analysis.

GC and Yos2 look very likely town to me too based on interactions.

There's a nice circle of suspicious-looking people in {TripMyWire, Medicated Lain, Fugitive} with the latter of the three being mainly due to complete non-contribution. camn looks the shadiest to me of the people who were on the PeregrineV-town wagon.

Let's start with this:

vote: Fugitive

[Incognito]

Can't elaborate much from phone, but Incog pointing at those three (which I have no problem with in itself) but singling out Fugi, who just replaced in at the end of the day, and singling him out for non-contribution, looks sketchy to me.

Except I did that after you voted me? So unless you're a psychic that clearly couldn't have been your reason when you actually voted me.

Besides, I already said that I find MPR's replacing out slightly scummy anyway so it's not just the lack of contribution that I take issue with.

Fencesitting and opportunistic scum if I've ever seen it.

Where have I done any of this?



As for your question or what-have-you, MPR had plenty of time to try and read up on this game when he "remembered" he was in it. Instead, he chose to just give up and pass the baton to someone else. I think that's something scum are more likely to do than town hence why I said I found his replacing out slightly scummy. Your knee-jerk vote on me makes me feel even better about it though.

[Incognito]

Reading back on BM, what the heck was he talking about here:

Medicated Lain is also scum. the "digging for gold where there was none" seems to put the emphasis not on the action of digging for gold, but on the (unfortunate?) fact that there was no role to be fished. Every cloud has a silver lining eh? Nice to see another

mislynch

lined up.

Am I reading that incorrectly or is that a real slip?

[Incognito]

All of those are fencesit reads, but especially the middle one. And that's just one post.

Bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzt.

Wrong.

I called Pine likely town, I completely reversed my D1 opinion of Haylen and said that I think she might be town, and said that camn seems shady. I said Yos and GC are town based on BM interactions... All of that is very far from fencesitting. I'd be THRILLED if you could point out more instances of that because I think you're talking bullshit.

vote: Cognito

GC and Yos2 look very likely town to me too based on interactions.

There's a nice circle of suspicious-looking people in {TripMyWire, Medicated Lain, Fugitive} with the latter of the three being mainly due to complete non-contribution. camn looks the shadiest to me of the people who were on the PeregrineV-town wagon.

What? That makes no sense.

...
What makes no sense about what I said there?

[Incognito]

The votes on bvoigt are dumb. And I mean really dumb. I can't see what's scummy about what bvoigt said there unless you think he's scum with one of the four people he checked off as town.

Fugitive:

With respect to Pine, being silly is not a scum trait, so I can't even imagine myself somehow flipping that around on him at some point. And yeah, camn really does look the shadiest to me; I'd be willing to push her lynch right now because I find everyone else on the wagon rather town-ish, and I think there's a very high chance that we could find one more scum on-wagon and one more scum off-wagon (assuming a 3-person scum group), but I want to pressure someone who hasn't done a thing all game (i.e. your player slot).

Incidentally, how much of the game have you read? Will you be giving us some kind of a player by player? Because you look like you're flailing right now.

camn:

Are you scum? Why are you voting bvoigt?

[Incognito]

I don't know what others have meant by it in your past games but when I say it, what I mean is you look like you haven't really read the game and like you're just irresponsibly throwing votes around since both of the votes you've placed have been completely based on stuff that happened on the exact same page that you placed those votes on.

With the 14 pages of thread, and the info that could be derived from interactions from one dead scum, AND the info that could be derived from a D1 mislynch, I'd think your votes would be based on a lot more reasoning than what you've given so far.

[Incognito]

I should note that you're not the only one guilty of this - camn's, Trip's, and Medicated Lain's votes seem to have the same thing wrong with them too.

[Incognito]

I like how Medicated Lain is attacking me for something that Trip, not me, is guilty of.

[Incognito]

bvoigt covered a lot of my thought process in his 352. I too could get behind a Trip-wagon, no doubt.

Ready to go home now...

So...




@Haylen: What makes you think BM was attempting to bus me?

[Incognito]

a) you have used this early-real-vote to break the RVS before, iirc. DO you strategically use it to gain town cred?

I don't know. I mean, you can look at my past scum games to see if I've done something like that before as scum, and iirc correctly, I don't think I have.

b) I notice tripwire posted well before Battlemage this game... yet you only had comments for tripwire. Why is this? (I already know the answer, so be honest)

Uh, because Trip was the only one in this game who I had seen on the "Who's Online" list? I don't really get the point of this question.

I'm honestly surprised that you're claiming to buy into that BM/me-scum theory. You of all people should know that this is definitely my town play here. Why haven't you been lurker-hunting?




In other news, it'd be nice if people other than Yos2 and bvoigt would post already. This game's way too quiet.

[Incognito]

Is it just me or did the font size change?

camn, yes, I always try to exit random voting as quickly as possible because yes, I do think it's good town play.

As for your other questions, yes, I pretty much always actively check the "who's online" thing whenever I'm on. I've never met TripMyWire before this game; I just so happened to notice that he was online, then he disappeared, and then he didn't post in this thread. None of the other people in this game were online at that time, so I'm sure you could see how sketchy it might have looked from my perspective to notice someone from this game being online but who was putting off posting for whatever reason especially since the mod sent all of us reminder PMs about the game's start.

if you had to finger a serial killer, who would it be? (not that I am implying there is or isnt one)

Seriously, what's the point of this question?

[Incognito]

For instance, I know that right now Haylen's online and that she's online pretty often too. That's one of the things I find most frustrating about her; it's like she's always claiming to be knee-deep in work or something else but yet she's constantly online and posting everywhere else but her actual games.

[Incognito]

What's interesting though is that you haven't accused me outright of active lurking, merely danced around it a bit. Why is this?

Probably because you haven't been the biggest offender of active lurking in this game. I mean, with Trip, Lain, Pine, you, and Fugitive all not really doing anything so far during Day 2, it's hard to say "hey guys, we should lynch the active lurker of the bunch" because pretty much all of you would qualify and obviously all of you aren't scum.

Why is camn looking shady today, Incog?

camn looks shady because her attack on PeregrineV was probably the worst of the bunch; while I and others attacked him for what looked like a lack of genuineness in his reads, camn was attacking him because he said something about how scum don't really bus on Day 1 and that he should know better than that because of the last game her and he played together. A lack of genuineness is a scum tell but him saying he doesn't believe scum bus on Day 1? I don't really see how that could be a scum tell on his part.

Plus, I'm thinking in terms of some wagon analysis too:

PeregrineV (7): Magua, bvoigt, camn, Incognito, Yosarian2, Battle Mage, Pine

- Magua we know was town.
- bvoigt really hasn't pinged my scumdar so far.
- I'm pretty sure Yosarian2 is town given how BM tried to attack my town read of him during Day 1 and how BM attacked Yos2 at a time that wouldn't have been necessary if they were scum together.
- We now know BM was scum.
- Pine still looks town to me.
- I know I'm town.

So realistically, if I'm thinking the wagon had at least 2 scum on it, camn sticks out the most to me as the most likely "other scum" who was on the wagon. Thus she's shady.

[Incognito]

Reading through GC's case against Yos2, I'm not really moved by it. Even though BM did move his vote off of Yos rather quickly, it seemed to me like BM-scum didn't really have a choice there; Yos' responses to BM's "case" were pretty solid, and I think BM realized he'd probably have a harder time getting Yos (mis)lynched than he thought he would since the very first person to respond to his case against Yos immediately put it down.

There were also two separate posts made by BM that looked like he was still trying to rile support against Yos after the unvote: one was towards GC here and another was towards me here. I just don't see why a BM-scum would twice feel the need to try and keep up some level of paranoia against a hypothetical Yos-scumbuddy when it really wouldn't be that necessary there with a mislynch chance presenting itself in Peregrine the way it did.

Yos2 isn't someone I'd worry about right now.

On both D1 and D2 bvoigt was accused of following your lead. Thoughts?

It's something I've been keeping an eye on since I've been suckered by that kind of stuff by scum before, but I think it's almost been too blatant to be coming from scum. Peregrine did similar when he voted Haylen after I did in one of his first posts, and I remember initially thinking that seemed kind of townish of him too.

[Incognito]

Trip mentioned everyone in this game in some way or another, on day one, except for Magua.

I looked through this, and I'm really not seeing this. While it's true that Trip didn't mention anything about Magua throughout Day 1, I think there's a whole bunch of other people Trip didn't really mention on Day 1 also. In fact, I'd include you in that bunch, and I'd include BM in that bunch too. I can't see why you just randomly decided to disinclude him when his lack of mentioning BM completely throws your whole reason for defending Trip out the window.

[Incognito]

UNVOTE

Uh, why the unvote?

[Incognito]

Picking up prod - been busy with the holidays and ish.

I don't really see much to comment on from where I last left off. I don't at all see what Lain's talking about either, but I'm guessing she doesn't care at this point because for whatever reason she's already made up her mind on things when to me it looks like she barely even seems to be reading the thread.

Still not buying the case against Yos2. And I'm just really waiting for some input on the people who haven't really said shit all game.

[Incognito]

No clue but after two straight replace out's from that slot, I really think that player slot needs to die. camn should probably be next. I can't see her seriously believing the b.s. she's been posting so far.

alright, I'm here, but not very strongly tonight. My vote is doing nothing, as it stands.

unvote, vote: camn

scum tactics anyone?

Not that I mind this, but I'm kinda surprised by this quick flip when your last post seemed to show you confirming your suspicion of me. What gives?

[Incognito]

Well, Yosarian2 seems pretty obvtown.
You never commented on that thing I mentioned about BM calling Medicated Lain a "mislynch." Thoughts on that btw?

And your suspicion of me? Christ. In one of our past games together you pretty clearly illustrated your understanding of how I play as both scum and town but in this game you've supposedly been having a hard time.

And MAN OH MAN. Where's the lurker-hunting camn-town that I know and love? You haven't hunted a single lurker all game. It's like you've almost been ENJOYING the lurking of some of these players.

And then there's the Magua kill (assuming he was targeted by the scum last Night). You grudge-voted him on the first page. I could see a you-scum grudge-killing him for something he did to you in a past game. That's definitely your steelo.

So like... what's the deal?

[Incognito]

Picking up prod. Skimmed the thread, looks like nothing important has happened since I left for vacation. Vote on Incog remains. Had a good time, even worse 3G access than expected in the mountains.

Wtf?


Lain: I could go for a camn-vote, but I really think we should be lynching Thor Today.

[Incognito]

@Lain and anyone else who's asking: The way I see it, both MehPlusRawr and Fugitive came into the game almost like they were BOTH replacements. Fugitive was an actual replacement yeah, but MPR was kinda replacement-ish also because he started posting in the game so late. IMO, they both didn't put in any effort and both just completely gave up saying they suddenly had no interest in the game. Yes, I do think scum would be more likely to do that than town; it's hard for some people to replace into a game and manufacture suspicions on people when they're scum. I'm not gonna ignore the fact that it happened to TWO separate people who came into that same slot - that just compounds the chances that the slot is a scum one.

I find it really annoying that people are just letting this pass like it's nothing major. In one of my most recent games (Mafia With The Hydras), I saw this VERY SAME thing happen and people just kinda shrugged it off and let the player slot live to endgame to win it for the mafia.

And for even more anecdotal evidence, I should mention that the only time I've just given up and replaced out of a game that I JUST replaced into was a game that I was scum in. So yeah, Thor needs to die.

[Incognito]

Yeah, this wagon on me is pretty dumb. I'm pretty positive that at least one of {Thor, camn} is scum on my wagon; it's silly to think that my only contribution to this game has been meta-cases or what-have-you. If you look through my iso, that's pretty demonstrably untrue. I could see Thor's walls coming from a town-him or a scum-him; no clue why Pine checked him off as town almost immediately.

I also think this is L-2 since ML unvoted, but I'll admit I'm not 100% certain so this might be L-1...someone should probably quickhammer for lulz.

I don't see why that would be lulzy at all.

People (and by people I mean Incog) should also explain how scum advance their win con by flaking out of the game - should be good for a laugh, and I'm a funny guy at heart.

This is a pretty obvious misinterpretation of what I've been saying about your slot this whole Day. What I've said has nothing to do with win cons; that's a pretty silly thing for you to turn it into.



I'd like a vote count; I have no clue where I'm at with respect to vote totals.

[Incognito]

Medicated Lain continues to convince me she's town; I think the mistake on Magua seems genuine enough and unlikely to be made by scum. As for ML's question, yeah, the serious vote GC made on BM is what makes me think GC is likely town considering the fact BM flipped scum and all.

@Thor: I've already said previously that I think Pine is likely town; I don't like him checking you off as town as quickly as he did or his complete lack of contribution all Day 2, but I'm thinking it's more him being lazy right now as opposed to some kind of scum-motivated buddying or something like that.

As for the case, no, I'm not repeating it for you. It's not you that I need to convince; it's the rest of the town that I need to convince. I know you'd love to get in a long drawn-out quote war because it'd make you look like you're actually doing stuff or whatever but sorry, ain't gonna happen.

If it is so demonstrable... Then why don't you go ahead and demonstrate it, Inc, because I was reading your Iso as I wrote that, and it seems pretty spot on to me

Uh no.



And thank God for some bit of sanity from Yos2's 475. I'd probably support any of the following lynches for Today: {camn, Thor, Trip}. Curious to see what Haylen might have to say about all of the recent stuff.

[Incognito]

He just did in his 475. See, unlike you and Thor, he's actually looking at BM's posts and putting things together to say why people like me probably aren't scum. You seem more concerned with spreading this dumb, paranoia theory about "ONE OF THESE THREE PEOPLE BM MENTIONED MUST BE SCUM," which is exactly the kind of theory I'd expect flailing scum to be creating right now.

[Incognito]

In response to Medicated Lain's thing, I'm gonna be completely honest: camn has been bugging me for a long while yeah, but at the same time I'd feel really awful if I'm just completely wrong about her and she's somehow town and ends up getting mislynched. Camn is just one of those players who holds a special place in my heart; I guess it's kinda like you and Trip in a way.

That said, the stuff she's been saying this game... it's just ridiculous. If we're not gonna lynch Thor, then we should lynch camn then.

unvote, vote: camn

I should also note that Thor's latest posts feel more town to me - I suppose it's possible that maybe the slot he replaced into was just dumb, uninterested town. I'm not really sure why ML thinks Thor's posting makes the slot look worse.

@Thor: I think one of your clears (a.k.a. camn) is a bad idea. I too think Yos is obvtown, and I think bvoigt looks pretty town too. What is it about her play that gives you a pro-town vibe? Have you ever played with her in a past game before?

As for why the flake slot felt scummy; as I explained before, I've just seen more instances of scum just giving up on a game without putting in effort into it shortly after replacing in than I've seen those same kinds of instances coming from town. Town usually at least try to engage in the action and figure things out - I could see scum just not feeling in the mood to put on this huge acting gig.

[Incognito]

Why would a band leader that appears in the movie for only two seconds be a pro-town power role?

I'd like a full claim now along with any information received over the Night. Camn, I'm surprised that you of all people would soft-claim like that with only two votes.

[Incognito]

I don't understand your question. How about we let camn answer though, eh?

I'd say the only thing that I can see in camn's favor is that if she's telling the truth about when she watched the movie (see her first few posts), her breadcrumb seems like it's probably legit because she couldn't have known a band leader was actually in the movie because she hadn't watched the movie yet.

That said, I'm still curious as to why an insignificant band leader would hold a town PR in this game and am even more curious as to what that PR could actually be. I could kinda see how Rotti Largo fits with being a Bodyguard, so I'm inclined to believe that the mod actually had a method to his madness when he was thinking up roles and fitting them to characters, so I wanna know how this so-called band leader might fit in with the mod's design.

[Incognito]

With the deadline approaching, we really do need to do get a move on here. Here's the way the current lynch situation looks to me:

Possible me-lynch supporters: Pine, camn, Thor, Haylen, Trip
Possible Trip-lynch supporters: bvoigt, Yos2, me, Thor, Green Crayons
Most of the other people in this game don't seem to reach this five person threshold if I'm doing the numbers correctly.

Green Crayons is against my lynch, Medicated Lain is against my lynch, bvoigt is against my lynch, Yos2 is against my lynch which means that the majority can't be reached on me = this is a good thing. I'm kinda surprised by the situation actually; since I know I'm town, if any of the four people against my lynch were scum, I'd kinda think they'd find some kind of a reason to join my wagon for a deadline lynch unless they somehow think buddying up to me is still a profitable thing for them to do. Instead, they're all just voicing opinion against it still.

Because of that, I think the scum has a stronger chance of existing in the people supporting my lynch. I'm now especially leery of the two people who haven't really said jackshit all Day, but who suddenly begin chiming in saying they're ok lynching me just before the deadline hits (hint: Trip and Haylen). Since Trip is the next person who looks like he'd gain enough lynch support and he's looked pretty bad to me for most of the game anyway, I think he really probably IS the best lynch for Today.

So let's do this:

unvote, vote: TripMyWire

camn should still answer my question.

[Incognito]

You wanted to lynch me Yesterday? That's news to me. I'd say I know exactly nothing about your suspicions right now, Haylen. You've been keeping us waiting and waiting and waiting for you to produce this brilliant insight about the whole entire game that you were supposed to produce pages ago, and you vote bvoigt for a single prod dodge post? And claim that you've been wanting to lynch me for a long while now? Hahaha.

bvoigt ain't getting lynched Today and Pine ain't getting lynched Today either. So both Lain and Haylen need to park their votes on someone who will. And at Haylen specifically, you should really hurry up with your analysis already. I don't get why it's taking you so long.

[Incognito]

I haven't been online since last week, camn. If you bothered to look at my history or anything else on this site, you'd know that.

Anyway, I'd like camn to full-claim Today and reveal all the stuff she said she'd reveal. No clue why everyone just kinda seems to have forgotten about her soft-claim from Yesterday.

I was never 100% on Trip's lynch, and while I will support it if necessary, I feel Incog is the more likely choice.

"More likely choice?" Do you even really think I'm scum?

The no lynch Yesterday was stupid. I don't know what to think of Trip's character claim; I DO know that Trip is acting like scum.

vote: Trip

@Medicated Lain: Trip hasn't been in the hospital all game, so I don't get why you're still using that as a defense for him. When he was out of the hospital his posting still was pretty bad; why haven't you considered that when deciding whether or not to vote for him?

[Incognito]

Sorry for the lack of posts - haven't had much time lately.

ANd Incog.. why all the anger? What 'else on this site' should I be looking at?

I meant to say "something else on this site," with emphasis on the word "something." There ARE ways to find out whether or not a person's been online here on this site, and I find it strange and extremely lazy of you to just loosely toss a lurking accusation at me without doing some research.

And actually

unvote
vote camn

If getting you to L-1 is the only way you'll claim then consider this a step towards that. Trip ain't off the hook but I want this camn thing settled Today.

[Incognito]

Yos seemed in his defense like he had some definite reason for not voting, like there is some kind of link, and he knew it would be a bad idea for us.

I won't confirm or deny anything related to this but if you felt this way why did you end up voting me near deadline anyway?



If camn won't claim we should just lynch her. She's scum anyway - I just have high doubts about her soft-claim; I mean if she really was a PR of some sort, I'd think she'd have used her ability to find out I was town already or would have less reason to think I was scum and would have stopped attacking me relentlessly. Because she hasn't done that and has continuously pushed after two straights Nights of obtaining "info" or what have you I'm almost positive she's stalling scum.


Trip, are you even thinking about interactions? I don't see how you could have me as your top pick for scum and then Pine as your second choice.

[Incognito]

@incog: I voted for you because it was an option.

...that doesn't answer my question at all. Everyone in this game was also an option but you didn't vote any of them. You're now claiming that you saw something in-thread that made you think Yos2 had inside knowledge that led him to believe I was town but yet you still voted me. You had nothing like that with anyone else apparently. So why?



Camn, that's not a case - it's more common sense.

[Incognito]

A few questions for camn's silly claim:

1) Why claim now?
2) Why should Thor have died last Night rather than Yosarian2 presumably?

I'm actually curious about camn's claim - if a vig is still alive and well, then I'd think that a target that was done on someone who is still alive would have been more likely to have been performed by what I'd think would be a scum power role rather than a town power one since I really doubt we have any further town PRs aside from the ones we've seen flip so far and the one camn's claiming to be.

Kinda contemplating whether or not a mass claim should be done at this time.

My suspicions list goes something like this: camn > xofelf = Haylen. I think bvoigt and Thor are very likely town.

[Incognito]

Also

mod,

please change the title to Day 4.

Done. Sorry, like I said, it was 4 AM; coulda sworn I edited it... ~iPie

[Incognito]

Sorry for the lack of posting. I think it's pretty safe to say that my Mafia days will be gone soon.

I'm cool with the mass claim - I mentioned earlier that I thought massclaim was the way to go, but nobody really commented on that until recently.

I think my role should be fairly obvious at this point given mine and Yos's interactions, and the amount of hate I've gotten from everyone else all game - I'm the other gentern (mason). I'd like Haylen to go next.

Given the fact that camn and bvoigt have semi-confirmed one another as having the abilities each other has said they have, I think it's pretty safe to say that neither one of the two is lying about their roles. Whether or not they're both town is up in the air though - I could see either role being a scum or town role.

I think bvoigt gets some slight town points though for sticking with a Trip-vote for as long as he did even in the face of other wagons on town cropping up (aka me). bvoigt also called me and Yos town quite a bit all game, which is what made me think bvoigt might be town too for a good portion of the game - it's kinda hard for scum to get mislynches if they're constantly calling all the people who are actually town "town" all the time.

More thoughts later.

[Incognito]

Reading over the last few pages, I kinda like camn's WIFOM thing about her not being scum - it makes me feel better about her alignment.

I also had an interesting revelation with respect to bvoigt - since bvoigt claims that he jailkept Green Crayons on Night 1, I'm thinking that bvoigt stands a very very very strong chance of being town. Here's why: I think the scum probably thought Green Crayons was a vig and that's probably why they killed him on Night 2. I mean, I know that when I saw the BM kill I too thought GC was the most likely to be a vig considering the massive case he laid out against BM pretty much from the start. If bvoigt was a scum Jailkeeper/Roleblocker, he would have known that it couldn't have been GC who killed BM (since he targeted him on Night 1) and so it wouldn't have made sense for a hypo bvoigt-scum to have targeted GC for the kill on Night 2. Does this make sense?

Because of all this, yeah, I think the mafia/SK has to be in {xofelf, Haylen, Thor}. I'd guess Haylen as the SK since she's pretty much always SK and xofelf as mafia. Thor still seems pretty town to me. As long as he is, I think we can lynch one of Haylen/xofelf Today and then the other Tomorrow for the win.

vote: xofelf

Anyone have any thoughts about what happened to the second kill on Night 2? I could see it being a case of someone just not getting a chance to submit a Night action. With Pine's and Haylen's poor activity levels, I could see either one potentially having the same issue.

I'm pretty sure there's a good way to optimize our Night actions - I have to read over one of my old games to see if the situation is similar enough to do it the same way we did it there.

[Incognito]

I looked into the past game of mine and the situation there was different.

If xofelf flips town, I personally think the Jailkeeper should keep Haylen and camn should probably Watch me since I'd think I'm the most confirmed at this point - this should force whatever scum is still able to kill to make a less optimal kill. Keep in mind that if xofelf does flip town and a kill still happens Tonight, that in no way clears the jailkept person of being town - we'd still be dealing with two separate anti-town killers.

[Incognito]

Pretty glad I died when I did - I didn't have any access the last week, which explains why I'm late to comment on the game as well.

I enjoyed this game at first, but I think I grew bored with it when people just didn't bother posting. I was happy to see Thor come in when he did; I really felt like he injected some life into the game and made it pretty easy to see that the Fugitive/MehPlusRawr slot was obvtown, but at that point I think the game was already damaged beyond the point of return. I think my reads this game were pretty decent aside from my reads of bvoigt and camn; I was extremely happy to see that Trip really was scum like I thought he was. It was pretty annoying to deal with the obvtown Lain defending him all the time though.


I think the set-up was pretty well-balanced; I'm generally not a huge fan of SKs, but I think the mod did a pretty good job of making sure the town, the mafia, and the SK had a decent shot of winning. Town really screwed itself over when it no lynched though.

As for xofelf, looking back on it, I feel like an idiot for supporting that lynch; I was pretty sure Pine was obvtown for the majority of the game but then I got lazy and started resorting to POE when all the role-claiming and stuff started happening.

MVP probably goes to bvoigt; I had a tiny niggling suspicion that he might have been the skating scum that so often exists in games but with the type of posting we had going on in this game (and yes, I know I'm partly to blame), we simply didn't have a chance to figure out his alignment properly.

Good game all.