Mini 1186: Repo! The Genetic Mafia - Game Over!

[PeregrineV]

I have this movie on my Netflix queue, but haven't actually watched it yet. Since, you know, it's a musical.

Vote: Incognito

I can't tell who he is....

[PeregrineV]

To contextualize:

- In the camn-link, I'm showing a past game where the idea of a mass name claim was floated around and a camn town was strongly opposed to it. In our current game, she now seems to be pro-mass name claim. I'm trying to figure out why there's a difference.

- In the Haylen-link, I'm showing a past game where I actually voted someone without listing reasons and a Haylen town (IN HER VERY NEXT POST) quickly followed my vote and placed a vote on the same guy I reasonless voted for. In this game she's claiming that she both a) finds reasonless votes scummy and b) wouldn't follow my vote if I didn't provide a reason for it. It makes me think she's not being sincere.

- How do you feel about Trip's explanation? Does it fit into your "one reservation?"

Not to crazy about it. It's not like the random vote that Trip did eventually place after becoming unbusy could have been all that time-consuming; it wasn't exactly groundbreaking or anything along those lines.
My "reservation" was me thinking that maybe the "Who's Online" list wasn't being accurate, but Trip's admitting that he did get the PM but chose not to post anyway, which tosses that out the window.

Starting to feel a little pulled out of RVS. Most well-presented meta case based on other games I've seen in a while.

Unvote.
Vote:Haylen

[PeregrineV]

---

Most well-presented meta case based on other games I've seen in a while.

Unvote.
Vote:Haylen

I actually think Incog's "meta case" on Haylen is weak. Relative to the camn case, I think it's the weaker of the two. I'm willing to explain why (I don't think it's necessary at this point, especially before Haylen has said anything on the matter), but I'm curious about why you think the exact opposite. Why do you think that it's one of the most well presented meta cases you've seen in some time?

Because I generally don't like them, as they are extremely difficult to prove. However, the Haylen link is exactly as described, but the camn link is regarding name claiming, which a player could be for or against regardless of alignment.
Both cases are very weak. I figured all of this is for discussion's sake, and to move us out of RVS.

[PeregrineV]

@Mod

Spoiler:

Re: last vote count, Camn only has two voters

Fixed. Thanks. ~iPie

[PeregrineV]

@Magua- lol sorry, you are right.

Pine and Camn are really expressing their opinions in a manner I find intriguing. For example, I feel Pine is town, although his playstyle is very tempermental, and he takes offense and finds fault easily, and translates that into meaning they are scum, which is not necessarily so. Camn is doing an outstanding job of scumhunting and presenting her cases as they arise.
I find both equally capable players, and as of yet do not find either to be candidates for the mafia team.

Re: Pine/Camn: They'll work it out eventually. Meanwhile, they are providing more data for later use.

[PeregrineV]

Yes, let's.

[PeregrineV]

@Mage- Camn is currently holding a place as "neither town nor scummy" in my list, but I do like the activity level, as it gives more info. And this tends to lean town to me (depending on what is said, and how it's said also, of course).

[PeregrineV]

Yeah, that's why I can't fully place you town.

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- Today, right now, I would be against a lynching of me, Green Crayons, Incog, or Haylen. And your Incog vote doesn't make a lot sense. Can you provide further insight about your decision making process in that regard?

@Green- Umm, there is a reason all the crossed out crap was crossed out. That was a semi-sarcastic response to Magua.

[PeregrineV]

@MLain- This is day1 with effectively 11 strangers, some of which I played with before either as town or scum. However, since this is a new game, I have to dismiss all the earlier stuff, and consider 11 strangers. That is the basis between my exchanges with Magua and Camn. So, today I read, watch, participate, and guess along with everyone else. But as for "real case"s like every else seems to get day1, it usually doesn't happen that way for me.

As a matter of fact, need to wait for the next trigger to send me into a voting frenzy.

Unvote.

P-edit:
@Bvoight- Currently, seems town enough to not hang day1.

[PeregrineV]

Sure. I generally leave my vote where it is until I re-vote someone else, or until someone gets close to lynching. Then I re-examine if I want to keep my vote there.
So far, I haven't found a better place to put it yet, but I did unvote so it can be clear that

at this time

I have no suspicion of Haylen.

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- last two posts mainly. Although will continue to expect more. As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Battle- Welcome to town, were we don't know and have to guess/figure it out, and are in the dark until the mod makes the deathpost. Is it different for you?

P-edit: See, now Magua posted something. I'll post first then read it.

[PeregrineV]

@Magua- First post of mine you are referring to was 7 hours since Pine posted.
Last post of mine you are referring to was 48+ hours since Pine last posted.
And a scum read can be leaning scum without being scum.

[PeregrineV]

Allow me to be more concise:

When did Pine move

from "providing more data for later use" (which I read as "null")

to scum?

Thu Jun 16, 2011 11:02 am

[PeregrineV]

@Bvoigt- gut, guess, lurker

@Magua- One minute prior to the posting time of post 184. Which person do you most object to on the list?

P-edit: I copy/pasted the time from my post, and subtracted the one minute it took me to write the post. (See response to Magua).

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- I read the thread, and re-read it often. On day1 with 9 pages, if your looking for something more indepth, then maybe we can work out a deal.

@Magua- Before I answer that, I'm curious as to why your so insistent on it.

@Green- Pine is a hyper aggressive tunneling player who takes offense easily. While that has no bearing on his alignment, it does affect how he plays. Since I am somewhat put off by that playstyle, he usually trips scummy for me from the start. But, rationally and logically, no bearing on alignment. So, right now he's a straight null read alignment wise.
Camn I've only played one game with. So I base anything now on her actions. She's active, she's coherent, she's not belligerent. I like the playstyle. However, no bearing on alignment..etc. So, instead of thinking town like I want to, I have her as a null also.
And the interactions between the two of them haven't changed my opinions above, it's mostly how I arrived at them.

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- I spend hours examining all posts in minute detail, and vote someone, you vote with me. And if we hit scum day1, you vote with me the rest of the game!
Otherwise, analysis starts as we get more data, and as the game progesses, like in a normal game.

[PeregrineV]

@bvoigt- What tends to happen is that I vote the person I find scummiest, while everyone piles on a town mislynch. Then, the next day, I get accused of Nader voting since I did want to lynch the guy because all the cases were not really lynch worthy.

But, if good things happen then maybe I'll do it anyway.

Why bother bussing day1? Actually, why bother bussing at all? I've only ever seen it happen accidently- never by design.

[PeregrineV]

@Magua- Before I answer that, I'm curious as to why your so insistent on it.

My insistence on getting an answer is directly related to your insistence on you not giving me an answer.

Well, as I said to Green, he's a null alignment wise.

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- I'll be happy to read any links to recent (past 2 months) normal type games where scum bussed on purpose, esp. day 1.

[PeregrineV]

Well, as I said to Green, [Pine]'s a null alignment wise.

As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Magua- You probably just got mixed up in your mind. Otherwise, that would be serious hardcore misrepresentation posting my second post before my first post. I think you wanted to show:

@bvoigt- last two posts mainly. Although will continue to expect more.

As for scumreads...let's say Magua, Pine and MehPlusRawr for now.

@Battle- Welcome to town, were we don't know and have to guess/figure it out, and are in the dark until the mod makes the deathpost. Is it different for you?

P-edit: See, now Magua posted something. I'll post first then read it.

And then this:

@Magua- Before I answer that, I'm curious as to why your so insistent on it.

My insistence on getting an answer is directly related to your insistence on you not giving me an answer.

Well, as I said to Green, he's a null alignment wise

.

Which was refering this paragraph:

@Green- Pine is a hyper aggressive tunneling player who takes offense easily. While that has no bearing on his alignment, it does affect how he plays. Since I am somewhat put off by that playstyle, he usually trips scummy for me from the start. But, rationally and logically, no bearing on alignment. So, right now he's a straight null read alignment wise.
Camn I've only played one game with. So I base anything now on her actions. She's active, she's coherent, she's not belligerent. I like the playstyle. However, no bearing on alignment..etc. So, instead of thinking town like I want to, I have her as a null also.
And the interactions between the two of them haven't changed my opinions above, it's mostly how I arrived at them.

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- Sorry, my subscription to Mafiascum Monthly expired and I missed the headline about BattleMage's triumphant return to the game.
You may pick any game in the last 2 years, ok?

@Camn-
My quote:

@Battle- I'll be happy to read any links to recent (past 2 months) normal type games where scum

bussed on purpose, esp. day 1

.

Relevant posts from the link you posted that shows it was not

on purpose

.
Acronach's Post 307: anger about the bus.
Camn's Post 308: the apology for the bus.

and of course it was never discussed as a strategy in the QT.

Unvote.
Vote: Magua

Because now I feel like the misrep was on purpose.

[PeregrineV]

@Incognito- You're right, order doesn't matter. That's why posts are numbered and appear in numerical order.

Let's turn up the HEEEEAAAAT!
BM

Let's turn up the heat.

Is this a scum secret battle cry?


PeregrineV (4): Magua, bvoigt, Camn, Incognito

And can all my fans please post the link to their "cases", or present them concisely, if they want a response.

If you don't want a response, or don't have a case, then why are you voting me again?

[PeregrineV]

And can all my fans please post the link to their "cases", or present them concisely, if they want a response.

If you don't want a response, or don't have a case, then why are you voting me again?

I don't particularly want a response, and the only reason im not voting you, is because im not done with the day yet. But why would i want a response? You are essentially already dead.

Please explain how this is something that town would do.

@Magua- You got my read at each point in time. Do you want to discuss why you agree/disagree? It would seem to make sense. Otherwise, reads change. A lot.
And you know it.

@Camn- Yes, that is the purpose of words. That's why I said "on purpose". That's why I didn't say "on accident".

[PeregrineV]

@Battle- I'll be happy to read any links to recent (past 2 months) normal type games where scum bussed on purpose, esp. day 1.

Relevant posts from the link you posted that shows it was not

on purpose

.

Mine is: You are quibbling the semantics of "ON PURPOSE"?
I cartainly didn't but our partner

by accident

in that game!

@Camn- Yes, that is the purpose of words. That's why I said "on purpose". That's why I didn't say "on accident".

[PeregrineV]

OK, I'll do this in separate posts that way I can stop if I get hammered.

First off, my voters and their "reasons".
Magua - Not explaining my Pine reads and thier reasons to his satisfaction
Camn - Voted me here, because BattleMage voted me here for this reason
Bvoigt - A contradiction & "Plus, a quick ISO reveals that he's hardly done any scumhunting."
Incognito- "Peregrine put little to no thought behind his post 184 when he produced his three scumreads", but somehow, in the same post, the reason has changed in response to my post.
Yosarian2 - Agrees with Haylen, but more on this later, too. (Note: Haylen is not currently voting me)
BattleMage - No reason-"yeah, i cant remember lol. i assume it was just something i read at the time which wasn't particularly substantial.". But hey does that matter? "because what motivation would scum have for voting somebody without attempting to give a reason?"

[PeregrineV]

The Magua Incident.
I can't decide if he's aggressive scum or "Pants-on-Head" town. So here's the summary from Magua.

@Magua- You got my read at each point in time. Do you want to discuss why you agree/disagree? It would seem to make sense. Otherwise, reads change. A lot.
And you know it.

For the last motherfucking time, the question I've been asking you is

why did your read change

.

I mean, goddamn, at least four times now I've asked that question: #188, #190, #193, #204.

At this point, I don't really expect you to answer the question, and so you can go die.

My answer:
Magua 183:

Still want to lynch Pine

, but not as much as I want to lynch Peregrine.
Pine 195: "There were no posts on the 16th (or 15th, I think) whose timestamp ended in :02, Magua. The time Peregrine is arbitrary and perhaps sarcastic, indicating (to me) that Pere doesn't have a good response. Possible 'scumslip'."
Pine 212:"I'm V/LA, camn, how much detailed activity do you want from me? I get home Tuesday evening. You'll see a big up-tick in activity then. Also, you seem to define "pro-Town" as "doesn't suspect me". Not an encouraging attitude, though I'm starting to see you as less likely to be scum despite it."
Pine 213:"What open questions for me do you have? It's very hard to go archive-spelunking from my phone. Your moronic "dare" doesn't count."
Pine 272: "I landed in Syracuse safe and sound, just figured y'all should know. Content coming tomorrow. This game is second on my list of priorities.Gah. Midwestern accent is even creeping into my typing."
Magua 286: "Haylen seems townier now than in the beginning of the game.

Pine is probably town, but not as strong as Haylen

."

To summarize: The same reason you did.

[PeregrineV]

So Camn never really has a reason (but, hey, who needs one really, to lynch a townie, amiright?), but keeps the vote after her shepherd Battle unvotes me next post.

In seems the crux of any reason is that I do not think scum gives up their teammates day1 on purpose with any great frequency. I think it's very rare. And someone posted a link (with no mafia QT to look at) in which Battle apparently engineers bussing a teammate day1, but I haven't reveiwed the 250 posts to see if the teammate was aware and in on the plan.

Regardless, a theory argument is a piss-poor reason, especially since I'm not scum.

So, great

no reason

Camn!

[PeregrineV]

Bvoigt's reason is not great, but it's actually one I understand. It was a contradiction, (even though I changed my mind about my read), and I hadn't been doing much scumhunting when he posted his vote.

[PeregrineV]

@Camn- lol

[snark]
When Acronach said FUCK YOU after the game, and you apologized for the bus, then you did not plan it nor was it done intentionally.
If it was, why apologize? And why would he be pissed?
[/snark]

[PeregrineV]

Gotta go to lunch, more fun when I get back.

If I'm hammered before then, I'm

Luigi Largo, Vanilla Townie

the smartest and toughest

If not, brief preview:
Incognito- not great vote
Yosarian- Suspicious from one post to my vote post
Battle- "Got no reason, but scum don't need no reason."

@Haylen- I don't mind agreeing to disagree. I think players may kill teammates on purpose, but voting doesn't kill, so voting doesn't count as purposeful bussing. And I have yet to see a mafia team strategy that says "Hey, bus me for town points. Here is how we'll do it...."

[PeregrineV]

Woohoo, twilight!!
Now I don't have to do all that work.

So truth time.

@Camn- big time fakeass tunneling on a question of theory? C'mon, how is that going to win you town pants? Better go fake scumhunt some more.

@Pine- trying to outguess the mod? And voting for it? You may be town (maybe), but this is why you give off scumvibes in most games.

@Yos- with more outguess the mod.
So, you ask me a question, then read what Haylen wrote, then decided to vote me based on it, when the poster himself didn't?
You'll be less likely to be outed as scum if you make up your own fake reason instead of latching on to someone else's weak reason.

@Magua- Your question went from "When", and I told you, to "Why", and you acted like you meant why all the time. But you didn't. Crappy pressure, crappy reason. Not even going to guess about town/scum since your last 10 posts have been to lynch a VT (at least address the rest of the game in each post while pursing your crap case).

So most likely town (to me) on my voters: bvoigt, Incog
Maybe town:Pine, Magua
scummy:Camn
Probably scum- Yos, Battle

And since there is always one off the wagon:
TripMyWire or the replace guy for MehPlus

[PeregrineV]

So, you actually going to respond to the reasons I suspect you, PeV, or are you going to just dismiss me as "agreeing with Haylen" and therefore somehow irrelevent?

Yes, I agree with specific points in Haylen's case. how about, rather then dismissing me, you respond to those points? If I am wrong and you are town, it's your job to convince me of that, ASAP.

If your town, you would unvote if you really believed this, since town doesn't want to lynch town.
But you didn't.
Because your not town.
Then you try to shore up that wonderful argument with a let's outguess the mod post. We'll see if that works for you.

[PeregrineV]

Gotta go to lunch, more fun when I get back.

If I'm hammered before then, I'm

Luigi Largo, Vanilla Townie

the smartest and toughest

If not, brief preview:
Incognito- not great vote
Yosarian- Suspicious from one post to my vote post
Battle- "Got no reason, but scum don't need no reason."

@Haylen- I don't mind agreeing to disagree. I think players may kill teammates on purpose, but voting doesn't kill, so voting doesn't count as purposeful bussing. And I have yet to see a mafia team strategy that says "Hey, bus me for town points. Here is how we'll do it...."

D1 VC #7 (Final D1 VC) - The Thankless Job Votecount

PeregrineV (7): Magua, bvoigt, camn, Incognito, Yosarian2, Battle Mage, Pine

Incognito (1): TripMyWire
Battle Mage (1): Green Crayons
Green Crayons (1): Medicated Lain
Magua (1): PeregrineV

Not Voting (3): Fugitive, Haylen

That's a lynch!

-----

Determined to find the scum that have invaded the Opera, the group finally decided on their first suspect. The man was shocked that he was being accused of being one of these people, protesting that he was the smartest and toughest of them all. When he went to pull out his knife, however, the group restrained him and hanged him right there, on the stage. Turns out he wasn't dangerous after all - he just had a little anger problem.

PeregrineV - Luigi Largo, Vanilla Townie, has been lynched.

It is now Night 1. Any and all QTs are now open. If you have a night action, send it in. Day 2 will begin in about 72 hours, or after about 48 hours if all night actions are submitted before then.

Doh!

The group of 12 had come back after a brief intermission following the death of Luigi Largo.

Well, I should probably say group of 10.


They found two bodies in the center of the stage - one male, one female. The male was none other than the founder of GeneCo - Rotti Largo. The other was his daughter, Carmella Largo, also known as the pop star Amber Sweet. The surprise came when they searched the bodies. Looks like daddy's little girl wasn't so innocent after all...

Magua -

Rotti Largo, Bodyguard

- has been shot.

Battle Mage -

Amber Sweet, Goon

- has had her "anatomy" removed.

It is now Day 2. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day 2 ends in three weeks - July 16th at 11pm Eastern.

Bah!
Go town!!

[PeregrineV]

I didn't think about a SK, but I hit it with my "dead" guess.

OK, first guess at scum:
BattleMage
Trip
Haylen

Haylen is my surprise pick. I always seem to fall for at least one players "town act".

@IP- thanks for modding!!