Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[Amrun]

I do agree that this DH issue will not go away until he dies. *sigh*

What, this one? Yell away.

Is Sotty a doable compromise wagon? Or even better, Llamarble?

[Thor665]

I'd do Sotty, I'd probably do Llamarble over DH, but I'm not as excited as I would be for Sotty.
I think Equinox believes Sotty is obv. town though.

@Equinox - It's basically not even a question that there is at least one scum on the DH wagon if he's town. If he's scum than I think the other scum would be going for blatant defense because there's no reason not to.

[Amrun]

I keep forgetting this set up! Bump my thoughts on likelihood of defense up. But I have townreads on the people defending DH.

[Sotty7]

I hate this game.

DH's team can take a running jump for all I care. Saying I avoided contact with Sevei is lolsy when I have defended her hammer practically all day.

More later when I have woken up properly.

This smells ever so slightly of a "caught for the wrong reasons" hissy fit. Nothing definitive, though.

I was just extremely crabby when I woke up this morning, though I wouldn't say it is a hissy fit It's annoyance at this line of reasoning and at this game.

I'd do Sotty,

That made me giggle though

[Sotty7]

My team's case on Sotty:

Sotty tries to read the DGB case but just shows up and says it's interesting and votes for pressure. She avoids stating what she agrees with, however. Posts #210, #251, #252.

Sotty avoids contact with Sevei. She has contradictory reads and tries to line up future lynches. See posts #405 (the "Sevei is a distant third" comment), #447, #449 (lays off suspicion of Sevei)

Lastly, Sotty pushes the idea that lynching off the wagon was the best decision, but was backed by an illogical argument. DGB's end-of-the-day scum interactions would leave scum wanting to control the amount of suspicion placed on them. It'd be likely if the end of DGB's wagon had 1 or 2 scum on it. #538, #623 and #625 supports this.

They also say that Amrun is town. Can't discuss much because of the ongoing Team Mafia game, however; it has to do with Klazam and Amrun's role picks.

^ Read into this later when Pick Your Power ends. I don't want to risk a modkill.

Pretty sure I have defended the first and last points to death. The second point is funny when you actually read this post in context.

"Out of this list the only two I would really like to lynch are DH and Llamafluff. Sevei a distant 3rd."

I'm as about as interested in DH's team thoughts as I was in Ythill's VCA. Maybe I'm just bitter because my team aren't offering up that much help for me, but I'd like to play with people in this game. By all means use stuff your teammates say, but to build cases based on it just seems pretty weak to me.

"Well I didn't believe it but my teammate..."

[TheButtonmen]

D2VC14:

DH (5): mith, Sotty, Chris, IP, Thor
mith (3): Amrun, DH, LlamaFluff
Llamafluff (1): Equinox
Llamarble (1): Sevei
Sevei (1): Llamarble

Not Voting:

With 11 alive it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline with banked time is the 14th, deadline without using any banked time is the 9th.

[DemonHybrid]

My team's case on Sotty:

Sotty tries to read the DGB case but just shows up and says it's interesting and votes for pressure. She avoids stating what she agrees with, however. Posts #210, #251, #252.

Sotty avoids contact with Sevei. She has contradictory reads and tries to line up future lynches. See posts #405 (the "Sevei is a distant third" comment), #447, #449 (lays off suspicion of Sevei)

Lastly, Sotty pushes the idea that lynching off the wagon was the best decision, but was backed by an illogical argument. DGB's end-of-the-day scum interactions would leave scum wanting to control the amount of suspicion placed on them. It'd be likely if the end of DGB's wagon had 1 or 2 scum on it. #538, #623 and #625 supports this.

They also say that Amrun is town. Can't discuss much because of the ongoing Team Mafia game, however; it has to do with Klazam and Amrun's role picks.

^ Read into this later when Pick Your Power ends. I don't want to risk a modkill.

Pretty sure I have defended the first and last points to death. The second point is funny when you actually read this post in context.

"Out of this list the only two I would really like to lynch are DH and Llamafluff. Sevei a distant 3rd."

I'm as about as interested in DH's team thoughts as I was in Ythill's VCA. Maybe I'm just bitter because my team aren't offering up that much help for me, but I'd like to play with people in this game. By all means use stuff your teammates say, but to build cases based on it just seems pretty weak to me.

"Well I didn't believe it but my teammate..."

It's not my case, though. It's theirs, and I'm not using it in any shape or form. I'm relaying it to give everyone more information to work with.

I'm pretty sure I specified that if I followed their case, I'd be voting you by now. Instead, I'm voting for who I think is likelier scum.

[Sotty7]

If you don't believe it, isn't it a pointless info dump?

[DemonHybrid]

If you don't believe it, isn't it a pointless info dump?

Seriously? o_O

I am L-1 and you don't want me to relay any and all info?

ANY information is good. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because it's against you.

By the way, my team on mith:

mith is the weakest scum read for my team. He gets a FoS for his position on the wagon and the post in which he hopped on: #278. Since they know I'm confirmed town, his tunneling on me and his lack of pushing elsewhere makes him look worse. He'd be stating reads on ALL players if he were town. He hasn't even started to view my actions objectively; it's all been in a negative light, which really shows a lack of motivation to look on both sides of the argument and see whether my views are reasonable or not.

By PoE, they have a lot of town reads, so it got them started in the direction of seeing Sotty/Sevei/mith as scum reads.

They also want to know what everyone thinks of the Sevei/Sotty interactions.

Sevei's case will be done in due time.

[DemonHybrid]

I feel like I'm Whoopi Goldberg in Ghost.

[Equinox]

If you don't believe it, isn't it a pointless info dump?

[DemonHybrid]

And I realize now that Chell in my avatar looks like Demi Moore. Ugh. -_-

[Llamarble]

Blorg, no flashwagon.
I hate wagons where several members have townreads on the wagonee.
Can I get a poll on who would prefer Seveiwagon over DHwagon?

I'd do Sotty, I'd probably do Llamarble over DH, but I'm not as excited as I would be for Sotty.

Hot. Yay beardbuddies.

[Amrun]

I prefer DHwagon to Seveiwagon.

[InflatablePie]

I'm going to confess right here and right now that I'm losing it, and I haven't had the motivation to do any of the rereading, metagaming, or analyzing that I said I'd do because, when I look at this thread, I just want to roll over and die. Whatever the reason, I can't get myself moving, and I don't think I've ever felt so apathetic about a game before.

this


I'm going to chime in on the question posed to Amrun/Thor: I think it's more likely that scum would be stalling out the day, so, probably more likely they'd be defending him... if DH is town. In addition, scum would most likely stay off of DH's wagon, since I can see D3 being "let's see who didn't push DGB but jumped on DH" (which currently is... just Chris, I think).

Actually, regardless of the hammer-er, I can totally see DH flipping town and scum pushing ChrisB tomorrow, due to the AtE of pushing a wagon of the late lynchee plus his positioning on both these wagons.

Of course, I'm not psychic. So let's just leave it as "scum is most likely not on the DH wagon right now". This is also supported by the fact that no one's willing to hammer DH. Doesn't matter if he's scum or town for the following logic: scum is off the wagon and don't wish to hammer, because the scum are under enough suspicion that they wouldn't want to hammer a townwagon and be looked at tomorrow. This may also be due to a scumbuddy being on the DH-wagon, but I'm leaning towards both of them being off-wagon.

Anyways... yes, I think it's possible that DH is town, but it's also possible that his reaction is a scum one. Not to mention, like Thor and others have said, at this point he needs to be lynched. So while my read is slowly leaning towards town as the day drags on, thus making me extremely unsure about this lynch, I still think it should happen. If there's a D3, that gives us more information to use for tomorrow. Lastly, it's either this or a mithwagon, and... yeah.

Also, I really don't like how Sevei disappeared after her wagon disintegrated. If DH's lynch doesn't win us the game, I'd be fine with Sevei. And of course, my Fluff/Amrun senses are still tingling, but after thinking things over, if they were buddies it'd be too obvious. Not to mention they're both trying to push a mith lynch. So either one of Fluff/Amrun is scum, or mith is scum and both Fluff/Amrun are town.

*sigh* I want blood. :<

[Sotty7]

If you don't believe it, isn't it a pointless info dump?

Seriously? o_O

I am L-1 and you don't want me to relay any and all info?

ANY information is good. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because it's against you.

I'm pretty sure you're scum, so I think you're stalling. Otherwise, where was all this juicy info days ago?

[LlamaFluff]

Reasons DH is town

~He would have to be scum with Sevei (who leans town), Marble (neutralish) or Amrun (solid town). When none of them are doing anything to stop the wagon outside of maybe Sevei, DH is town.

This has been "reasons DH is town"

Any questions?

[mith]

DH: This is what bothers me... taking things I say totally out of context and constructing a strawman out of them:

"The conclusion here is: There are some things I don't like about Chris B, mainly related to the DGB flip,"

vs.

"The conclusion here is: There are some things I don't like about Chris B, mainly related to the DGB flip,

but

..."

My stance, from the start of day 2, has been "Chris B's position off wagon is bad,

but outweighed by other things

". He's obvious town to me because of those other things... and however many times you want to claim they are null tells, I'm just not buying that scum-Chris B, whether on his own or prompted by his team or scumbuddy, threw in that kind of fake "slip" in that context just in case maybe someone picked up on it and decided it cleared him.

"And again, you didn't talk about the scummier parts of the play. You just said stuff like "Oh, well, that's not necessarily scummy", "Even if he DID do this", to try to warp my argument into being falsified and protect Chris." -

That is me talking about it.

I just don't agree with what you're trying to sell. (This argument doesn't get any less stupid as you repeat it, you know.)

"I'm not invoking Sotty. I'm bringing up an example. Another scummy way to twist my argument around." - Way to turn the conversation to semantics and avoid the actual point: That you made a claim (Chris B is making weak cases) and have provided

no

elaboration on that point. That isn't scumhunting.

---

Ugh, there's a lot I don't like on these recent pages... Amrun's "I do agree that this DH issue will not go away until he dies." and "Your town flip will help my cases so oh well." are no better than LlamaFluff's similar earlier comment, though I still don't see DH-town + Amrun-scum making sense; Llamarble is still dodging the whole pairing analysis thing; LlamaFluff's most recent argument for DH-town...

Actually... LlamaFluff: Let's say we're in some hypothetical totally implausible alternate reality where you and DH are scumbuddies, and one of you getting lynched ends the game. What would you be doing to "stop the wagon" other than repeatedly calling him town and voting for his attackers?

[Thor665]

I'd do Sotty,

That made me giggle though

I would totally do you over DH, it's not even a question.

...wait, which innuendo are we in right now?

@who ever the frell aksed it - I'd rather lynch Sevei than DH. I'd rather lynch Sotty than either of them. Frankly I'd rather not lynch DH, and if we get a few more people going 'gosh and golly, he looks town' I'm all game for the action of killing this wagon dead.

@mith - what do you think of the DH "hydra" calling you out for tunneling him and not offering reads on others?

[mith]

I'm not sure what they're talking about - I've certainly been focused on him as my top suspect, but I've been looking at and giving reads on others as well.

[DemonHybrid]

If you don't believe it, isn't it a pointless info dump?

Seriously? o_O

I am L-1 and you don't want me to relay any and all info?

ANY information is good. Don't get your panties in a bunch just because it's against you.

I'm pretty sure you're scum, so I think you're stalling. Otherwise, where was all this juicy info days ago?

Uh, they gave me their reads and I didn't ask for a clarification until just recently?

[DemonHybrid]

Seriously Sotty, damned if I do, damned if I don't. I don't get your resistance to extra information.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm also going to ignore mith, for the reason that he's starting to "not like" anyone who even thinks of defending me, as per his last two paragraphs. This is tunneling to it's most extreme.

[Amrun]

Mith, what don't you like about me saying DH town will help my cases etc? Do you think I am rolling over and letting the wagon go through?

[TheButtonmen]

Sevei is replacing out, their team is now sorting out replacement issues.