Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[BrianMcQueso]

The Surye-hammer aspect was mentioned by other players. I'm sorry, I didn't know it would be necessary for me to redundantly state that just so it appears on my record. If I'm just echoing what other people say, then you'd be calling me out on that instead.

I've already told you what I think of Furcolow, multiple times. You seem offended that I'm not voting for him! If I, in my next post, unvoted ReaperCharlie and voted for Furcolow, how would you respond to that?

What part of my words don't line up with my actions? I was fairly single-minded about my pursuit of Furcolow yesterday, and I'm the same for ReaperCharlie today. Am I not allowed to change who I pursue? Would you prefer it if I had stayed stuck to Furcolow and ignored the behavior of ReaperCharlie? I'm building cases against the players I'm voting for, which I can't say for many people in this town, including yourself.

In fact, let's look at your play, MBL. Your first vote is in your ISO post #4, for ToonFighter. You then completely ignore ToonFighter in each following post (except for ISO Post #8 where he's only mentioned in passing on a list). This continues to your ISO Post #13, when you switch to vote for Medicated Lain. You then never address Lain again for the rest of the game-day. Why don't you question people you vote for, MBL? How do you defend that style of play?

In regards to my suspects on the Surye wagon, I have my doubts about:

* Cogito (who has been very hard to get a read on)
* AGar (every time he is talking about Surye, he is also highly-suspect of someone else. seems kinda wishy-washy)
* Kison (who seemed to hop on for inactivity and then never really addressed it after Surye became active)
* DeathNote (last minute hop-on is traditionally scummy)
* Primate (goes from liking Surye to being unsure about Surye to voting for Surye while still being relatively unsure?)

As for Porochaz, I don't have a problem with his play. I think it's fairly obvious that I don't have a problem with him voting for RC. I disagree with your assessment that "his post to content ratio is high", and I don't like how you tried to link him to the dead Amrun. I wouldn't call Porochaz a shining bastion of scumhunting, but he seems to be playing logically and is willing to share his opinions. Compared to many other players, I've got no issue with Porochaz right now.

[Battousai]

Medicated Lain 1334: So it's bandwagoning to vote someone if they are the leading wagon. Okay. But what if I find them scummy? Is that nullified by the fact that I am/was the second leading wagon, and that I can only find people scummy that have little chance of being lynched? Wait. Doesn't furcolow cover that? He's not being ran up to the gallows anytime soon, yet I point out that he was scummy yesterday. I can't find him scummy either because other people found him scummy? I know this is strawmanning what you said, but seriously. That is some BS.

Brian 1350- "I'm sorry that I don't have a grandmaster blueprint that accurately nails every other player's alignment based on the result of ReaperCharlie's alignment. My bad. Most people have an opinion of RC. Those who are defending him will have to defend themselves if he flips scum. How those players defend themselves will define Day 3. If RC flips town, we look at those suspecting him. We look carefully at their reasons for suspecting him, and that in turn drives Day 3's events. There is a lot of potential activity, there." Replace RC with TF, ABR, Furcolow, IS, or anyone who has been pointed at or defended this game. All of that can be applied to many other players, which is why it is not a supporting argument.

ABR- You ignored my question. Will you follow the town and vig the second leading wagon tonight?

Sensfan 1360- 1) I have not lied. 2) How is it lurking if we are posting every day (on the fact you are saying continued lurking)?

Brian 1368- 1) There were other people on the wagon, even if RC didn't hammer, Surye would have been lynched. 2) What about the post where he calls IS scummy and the post where I call TF and Furcolow scummy? How is that not giving opinions of any other players in the game

Brian 1375- Tell me, how is placing the hammer vote on an inevitable lynch without reason scummier than:

* Cogito (who has been very hard to get a read on)
* AGar (every time he is talking about Surye, he is also highly-suspect of someone else. seems kinda wishy-washy)
* Kison (who seemed to hop on for inactivity and then never really addressed it after Surye became active)
* DeathNote (last minute hop-on is traditionally scummy)
* Primate (goes from liking Surye to being unsure about Surye to voting for Surye while still being relatively unsure?)

[BrianMcQueso]

What about the post where he calls IS scummy and the post where I call TF and Furcolow scummy?

Let me break this down for you. Here is ReaperCharlie's ISO. Anything in quotation marks is a direct copy-and-paste.

Spoiler: ReaperCharlie's posting history

#0: Hi guys! Looks like I'll be replacing in. "I may or may not be able to go back and read the thread in very much depth"

No content.

#1: "Up to about page 5. Should have time to catch up a little more tonight."

No content.

#2: "I'm going to have to break my word. I might not have a chance to re-read until tomorrow night."

No content.

#3: "Still having trouble finding the time to comment in here."

No content.

#4: "I have decided to forgo reading the last 20 pages, and wait to see what Surye flips."

No content.

#5: "I'm already accountable for having not caught up in a week." Acknowledges that he's accountable for his inactivity. No content on anything other than himself.
#6: "I am probably significantly busier than you..."

No content.

#7: "All I have to say is, somebody better make something happen..."

No content.

#8: "Vote: Surye" No explanation. That and an image was literally the entire hammering post.
#9: "Comments/etc in a while." "Having four flips to work with is magically awesome." Seems happy that townies died? Still no talk of any other players in the game.
#10: "Soooo I'm just gonna give reads. And they will be awesome. Expect something within an hour and a half."

No content.

#11: "P.S. You should all sheep me because I am excellent and sexy." This is just starting to get embarrassing.

No content.

#12: "Tomorrow is when it'll have to be, despite my (empty) promises."

No content.

#13: "It'll happen. Eventually."

No content.

#14: "Get off my nuts."

No content.

#15: "V/LA this weekend. May be able to post Friday."

No content.

#16: "Vote: SensFan This is a serious vote." That is the post in its entirety. Again, no explanation whatsoever. No mention of SensFan, or really any other player, outside of this post.
#17: My hydra is Death Ninja.

No content.

#18: "That'll make it an extra while, unfortunately. Sorry to all."

No content.

#19: Asks the mod about hydra.

No content.

#20: "Nice cop-out vote: Voting a lurker until he stops lurking. Yeaaahhhh SensFan is scum." The closest ReaperCharlie has come to expressing a game-related opinion thus far.
#21:

Hurrr durrr.... if I was scum, I would either have replaced out, or would have taken care of the game myself. I wouldn't have created a hydra to fill my slot. Yes, that is WIFOM.



And YES, Lynch All Lurkers is a cop-out. Nice OMGUS claim of cop-out, you cop-outting cop-outer.

Now stop outing cops.

It's WIFOM, and RC even acknowledges that. This is hurting your standing in everyone's eyes, not helping. It also still doesn't address any other players in the game.
#22: "No ploy. Just busy."

No content.

#23 "I have never played with IS before." Gee, thanks.

No content.

#24: (in regards to a Kison post) "This post reads like pure scum to me." Hey! An opinion! Would you care to elaborate on that? No? Ok, moving on.
#25: "don't expect much from me this weekend"

No content.

#26: A nonsense fluff post.

No content.

#27: "I do need to read the thread, yes, because I have absolutely no idea what went on after page 4."

No content.

#28: "Doing a powerful re-read on my other game. Once that one's done, this one will get the same treatment."

No content.

#29: "Albert is scum with Internet Stranger" No explanation? Not even a vote swap? Neat. You are contributing.[/sarcasm]
#30: "This paragraph makes literally no sense."
#31: "Anyway, I'm done catching up in my other 50ish page large, now to start on this one. When me and Battousai finish, prepare for GLORY." (I wish I was making this shit up at this point)
#32: "More votes on SensFan. Watch how cool it is when he flips scum. " Man, you are convincing.
#33: "I will vote IS as well.

I don't like what I've seen of him so far." This is starting to look like content. Except there's just so little of it to go on. And there's no explanations for anything. "X is scum" doesn't help anyone.
#34: "Haha, I didn't vote IS, you clowns. lol

I just got back from V/LA about half an hour ago. Stop this madness, haha. Let me read the thread please. " We've given you all damn game to read the thread.
Posts #35 and #36 are decent in length. Unfortunately, all they are is trying to tell everyone to stop voting him. RC continues not to make a case on any other player beyond "X is scum".

So Battousai, what about the post where he calls IS scummy? #33? Does that post really convince you that ReaperCharlie is contributing to this game? What about all the other posts? Did you read them? Look, you seem to be a decent player, and I'm sorry that you're anchored to this dead weight. But go back through all of ReaperCharlie's posts and find me anything that points to RC not being an intentional lurker who votes with no explanation, does not make a case against any other player other than "X is scum", does not bother explaining any of their actions, and uses stupid WIFOM logic. Yes, a large portion of this is RC being 'useless', but during the rare moments that RC is posting something other than "I'll post later", it's all textbook scummy behavior.

I wish I could find upsides to ReaperCharlie's posting. Even the scummiest scum can have redeeming qualities, but not RC. Not even close.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR- You ignored my question. Will you follow the town and vig the second leading wagon tonight?

No I will not, but you can make recommendations.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If we lynch Internet Stranger, I will vig who you want.

But we all know that you don't want to lynch your precious Internet Stranger, so I will have to shoot him tonight.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The mod is back from V/LA. Thanks to Patrick for doing a VC while I was gone.

[Yosarian2]

Albert: Eh, I still think IS is probably town. He looked soooo town day 1. Stuff like this line just screams town to me :

This Vezo and Furc hate is getting annoying. I'm not supporting their lynch now simply out of principle (or at least until in convinced that they are scum).

[Battousai]

Brian- Nice selective answering. You said "has still not". Which means he continues to not post opinions, when in actuality the slot has made opinions on players. You can say in the past, but what you posted was blantant misrep.

Care to answer the other points I brought up, such as the fact that the wealth of information you claim we will get from the lynch, is the same type of information we would get from just about any other player that has been wagoned? Or how someone hammers a player who would have been inevitably deadline lynched in 4 hrs is scummier than:

* Cogito (who has been very hard to get a read on)
* AGar (every time he is talking about Surye, he is also highly-suspect of someone else. seems kinda wishy-washy)
* Kison (who seemed to hop on for inactivity and then never really addressed it after Surye became active)
* DeathNote (last minute hop-on is traditionally scummy)
* Primate (goes from liking Surye to being unsure about Surye to voting for Surye while still being relatively unsure?)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Zindaras, ML, thoughts on Yosarian?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Between Yosarian and Internet Stranger, who do you guys want me to vig?

[Yosarian2]

Between Yosarian and Internet Stranger, who do you guys want me to vig?

Oh, lord. Seriously? What the hell is wrong with you?

[Internet Stranger]

Albert is probably caught scum and his pride is hurting. I still want Charlie lynched first because I want to prove that im right. Of course the smart option would be to lynch Albert before he can kill me, but I want to show that Charlie is scum more.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Charlie can get lynched anytime he isn't going to survive until the end.

[BrianMcQueso]

Battousai:

I continue to make cases against ReaperCharlie. I do so in the efforts to show how he is worse than the other players I put on my suspect list from that lynch. I don't see how you can't get that. Do you want me to compare RC to each of those players individually? Is that what you want from me? Because that is ridiculous. How much more do you want me to post against your hydra-partner?

I addressed the information we get from ReaperCharlie in my post #1350:

Most people have an opinion of RC. Those who are defending him will have to defend themselves if he flips scum. How those players defend themselves will define Day 3. If RC flips town, we look at those suspecting him. We look carefully at their reasons for suspecting him, and that in turn drives Day 3's events. There is a lot of potential activity, there. If we don't lynch RC, then that potential is flushed, and people don't have to be held accountable for their actions and scum get to hide. That alone isn't enough justification to lynch RC, but combined with all the other terribly scummy behavior, RC is a great lynch for today.

If you disagree with my opinion, fine, but saying that there's no information to be gained from an RC lynch is misleading. Saying I haven't addressed at all it is misrepresentation.

Brian 1368- 1) There were other people on the wagon, even if RC didn't hammer, Surye would have been lynched. 2) What about the post where he calls IS scummy and the post where I call TF and Furcolow scummy? How is that not giving opinions of any other players in the game

1) If Surye would have been lynched anyway, then why did RC hammer regardless? If there was no reason behind RC's vote, then there wouldn't have been a vote. It was placed for a reason, and I think it's reasonable to ask what that reason was.

2) The post where he calls IS scummy? Are you referring to this?

I will vote IS as well.

I don't like what I've seen of him so far.

How does that contribute to the game? I don't care who you think is scum, I want to know

why

you think they're scum. My issue with ReaperCharlie's scarce content posts is the lack of "why" behind them. There is no explanation for his actions, and that is scummy. "X is scum" does not help. "Don't lynch me" does not help. Those do not contribute to the game. I am not judging your actions, Battousai, I am judging ReaperCharlie's. If you think your actions somehow magically absolve ReaperCharlie of his behavior, you are sadly mistaken.

Battousai, I want you to point me to specific ReaperCharlie posts and tell me how they have contributed to the game. When a player willfully does not contribute to the game, they are trying to hide so their words can not be turned against them. That is the underlying reason behind my original vote on RC, and continues to be my main point against him. People who lurk intentionally are scum. The Surye-hammer is only supportive evidence to the idea that RC is scum.

[Primate]

Alberts obviously not lying and it's a little weird that IS is still beating the ABR drum, though I think he's town.

I don't have enthusiasm for the Reapercharlie/Battousai wagon at the moment. I need to review and read others arguments against him though really, not just iso him. In particular I don't really see how Reapercharlie has done much scummy outside of general malaise regarding the game, most of the specific things, like the early lurking and bringing in a hydra are null tells. Most of my read is based on Batt becuase I think that's where the tells are.

[Primate]

Unvote

Should have done that a couple of days ago, I don't believe in that vote anymore. (Aware I still need to explain why I voted Gummybear in the first place)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote Count #17:

Do you believe that my being stronger or faster has anything to do with my muscles in this place? Do you think that's air you're breathing now? - Morpheus

ReaperCharlie (8) - (BrianMcQueso, SensFan, Internet Stranger, Furcolow, Yosarian2, Ranmaru, Toon Fighter, Medicated Lain)

Toon Fighter (3) - (Cogito Ergo Sum, Kublai Khan, Kison)
SensFan (2) - (ReaperCharlie, HezLucky)
Porochaz (2) - (MrBuddyLee, LlamaFluff)
Albert B. Rampage (1) - (Zindaras)
Ranmaru (1) - (Nobody Special)
DeathNote (1) - (Porochaz)
Internet Stranger (1) - (Albert B. Rampage)

With 21 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Prodding Furcolow and HezLucky. Kublai Khan has informed me of limited access via phone through June 15th.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Scum are Yosarian and Internet Stranger, I don't know who else. Look at the wagons they been on. Their posts. IS's certainty about everything, like Surye being scum or Deathnote being town. Yosarian's defense of IS. The interactions.

They are scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

BrianMcQueso may be too. You heard it here first, folks.

[LlamaFluff]

First two yes, third ehhh... I cant see it.

[HezLucky]

bam. i'm here. sick at the moment, but will make a catchup post immediately.

since we have a deadline.

unvote, vote: toon fighter

incase I do not get better by then

[HezLucky]

BrianMcQueso may be too. You heard it here first, folks.

Good post. (Though technically he was 3rd on my scumlist a few days ago.)

[Kison]

What makes you think Yos is scum, Llama? I don't recall you thinking that before.

[Kison]

Kison votes Toon Fighter for "terrible votes", which is a line of reasoning I disagree with but at least makes sense to me. The whole wagon seems to be crap. I'm not saying TF is innocent, but I just plain don't understand what people see in him.

What do disagree with? Voting someone for terrible votes, or that Toon Fighter's votes are not terrible? Neither makes sense to me.

[LlamaFluff]

What makes you think Yos is scum, Llama? I don't recall you thinking that before.

He has been bugging me on a gut level for quite some time now. Not really sure why, but some attention there wouldnt be the worst thing in the world