Mini 1159 - Powerrox93's Mini Normal I (Game Over)

[mastin2]

So, I finally finished page five, but I think I have a way to get a quick read of the game. Our mod seems to have been very good about Votecounts, you see...

*watches as Pine screams at his monitor in rage as he knows what I'm implying*

Sorry, but what I'm doing now quite frankly isn't working. I will try--VERY hard--to only use these to get a general look at the game, and observe general trends to see if they match up to in-game events, and if I see them not match, I'll likely go with the in-thread evidence versus this.

If that makes sense. I obviously don't want it to become the basis of my reads; I already have learned multiple times that doesn't end well. But if I dont' use it, then I'm likely going to continue having poor to no reads at all, which is worse, so the risk (tunneling, or reverse-tunneling) is worth the potential reward (good, solid reads on the game).

[mastin2]

@Pine & mastin2: If you need more time to catch-up, just tell me and I'll extend the deadline

I'll likely be finished within 48 hours. (Okay, so that's only if I worked on this game for a long, solid time, practically non-stop [extremely unhealthy; trust me on that. ]. Likely closer to 96 hours when accounting for things like, y'know, Sleep ) Current deadline seems fine. (It says June 11th. I'll be done in less than four days; that leaves just enough time for me to stop any mislynches and get us on the right track.)

[Setael]

Holy...

[Pine]

@Mod: A reasonable extension would be great

*watches as Pine screams at his monitor in rage as he knows what I'm implying*

I WILL DESTROY YOU [/Morbo]

Cookie for ref.

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 3.10

Updated as of post #603

Setael (2) - Me=Weird, Pine
mastin2 (2) - Zdenek, imaginality
Pine (1) - tarsonisocelot
Zdenek (1) - Jase
tarsonisocelot (1) - mastin2

Not voting (2) - Uncle Pain, Setael

If there's a mistake let me know.
9 Alive == 5 to Lynch && 5 to No-Lynch

Setael

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Uncle Pain: June 3-5 + June 11-12
Zdenek: Untill June 7
Powerrox93: June 17-23. Empking will look over the game during that time

Deadline

June 14 14:00 CEST

[Uncle Pain]

Back from V/LA. Unfortunately, today was and still is too busy to really get back into game, so here are some quick thoughts as I read the new posts…

Skimmed the walls. Lynch preference of those most involved (level of scumminess): Zdenek>Setael>Uncle Pain (whose acronym I keep misreading as undead penguin).

Care to explain your reads a bit? Why you have Zdenek as null, why crazypianist1116/Pine tops him,…

Can anyone fill me in on what's happened so far?

Nothing against this approach to get into the game quickly but I do hope that you make your own image of the game by reading it yourself.

The town read on UP is not just because of activity, it is because of the nature of his activity

I’m sorry but this answer still doesn’t satisfy me.

You play by accusing people who seem to have flaked of avoiding the game? And it wasn't scummy enough for me to change my vote, it just seemed kinda weird to promise content and then take a really easy route that didn't do much. I haven't seen you interact much with anyone. Seriously considering voting you now.

Some OMGUS going around here. Chill, guys.

Unvote

. I need to ISO TO.

Erm, you’re backing away from your case? What makes you so unsure about it suddenly? I thought you were convinced of my scumminess, taken by itself as well as connected to Zdenek?

Enough for today, gotta go.

[Pine]

Can anyone fill me in on what's happened so far?

Nothing against this approach to get into the game quickly but I do hope that you make your own image of the game by reading it yourself.

I fully intend to read the game myself.

[Setael]

Unvote

. I need to ISO TO.

Erm, you’re backing away from your case? What makes you so unsure about it suddenly? I thought you were convinced of my scumminess, taken by itself as well as connected to Zdenek?

This is just weird. Are you seriously trying to make me look suspicious for NOT tunneling? What do YOU think of TO's statement that she finds both you and Zdenek town (him less so but meh) but if Zdenek flipped scum you'd be guaranteed scum? I have a huge problem with it, especially considering she hasn't said what if anything she agrees with as far a connections between you 2. I'm surprised you don't have a problem with it as well IF you're not scum with zdenek.

[Jase]

Zdenek 424 against CP - still doesn't mention cworl. Trying to swing momentum anywhere else

Good point

I don't necessarily want a competing wagon. What I want for there to be more information today, and not much scum hunting has happened. Ideally something would be brought up that would start a wagon that gains enough support to be considered competitive to the c-worl wagon, sparking a whirlwind of discussion. The second bit (I think) is pretty clearly misinterpreting my want for another wagon. I don't want to know who else people think we could maybe lynch instead of c-worl, obviously if we lynched immediately c-worl would be best. I want people to look for a GOOD wagon. I want to see some good solid scumhunting.

One day you want scum hunting and discussion, and the next day someone who's doing it is scum for trying to swing momentum anywhere else.

This is a misrepresentation. I don't find you scummy because you looked for alternative suspects. I'm suspicious of you because of your attitude toward C-worl. Not mentioning him much at all until asked while describing him as anti town instead of scummy. Could be scum not wanting to bus his buddy.

[tarsonisocelot]

Unvote

. I need to ISO TO.

Erm, you’re backing away from your case? What makes you so unsure about it suddenly? I thought you were convinced of my scumminess, taken by itself as well as connected to Zdenek?

This is just weird. Are you seriously trying to make me look suspicious for NOT tunneling? What do YOU think of TO's statement that she finds both you and Zdenek town (him less so but meh) but if Zdenek flipped scum you'd be guaranteed scum? I have a huge problem with it, especially considering she hasn't said what if anything she agrees with as far a connections between you 2. I'm surprised you don't have a problem with it as well IF you're not scum with zdenek.

I never said guaranteed. I never said Zdenek was town, I said null. From skimming the walls I got the feeling they were being a little defensive of one another. That could be a sign of thinking the other is town, of thinking that you, Setael, are scum or of being scumbuddies. A flip would eliminate at least one of those possibilities.

[Uncle Pain]

This is just weird. Are you seriously trying to make me look suspicious for NOT tunneling? What do YOU think of TO's statement that she finds both you and Zdenek town (him less so but meh) but if Zdenek flipped scum you'd be guaranteed scum? I have a huge problem with it, especially considering she hasn't said what if anything she agrees with as far a connections between you 2. I'm surprised you don't have a problem with it as well IF you're not scum with zdenek.

No, I’m not blaming you for anything, I just want to know why you suddenly backed off the case although you haven’t taken anything back. Considering that you were very convinced of the case, it looks sensible to conclude that your suspicions against tarsonisocelot must be quite strong, otherwise they wouldn’t supersede the case against me. I haven’t said

anything

about tarsonisocelot, please don’t lay words in my mouth, my point was only about you.

I don't think much of the spamwalls. They really don't help the game at all, and I really want UP and setael to consolidate their stuff into a few main points.

I wrote #523 explicitly for you tl;dr folks. Otherwise, I concur with Setael:

“This town is so lazy.”

I have had a townread on UP for a while, The slot that Setael filled was null but Setael has been townie. Zdenek has been a null read and remains one by himself.
Add the contents of Setaels's posts and Zdenek looks like they may be scum. If we lynch Zdenek and they flip scum, then UP scum is likely. Until then they are the towniest of those three players.

Zdenek alone is a null read. If they turn out to be scum that will change my UP read from town to scum. My read on UP has not changed.

I don’t get this. You’ve seen me as a townie all the time. Now you look for connections and find a good scum team: Setael and Zdenek. It would then be sensible to lynch Zdenek BUT should he flip scum (as you expect) suddenly

I

am likely scum. WTF? I even still don’t get it with your recent post:

I never said guaranteed. I never said Zdenek was town, I said null. From skimming the walls I got the feeling they were being a little defensive of one another. That could be a sign of thinking the other is town, of thinking that you, Setael, are scum or of being scumbuddies. A flip would eliminate at least one of those possibilities.

Zdenek and me were defensive for a good reason, Setael came here and threw a dirty case at us. On the other hand, I don’t see where Zdenek and me were

“a little defensive of one another”

, we defended ourselves and not each other. Hence, I think your three conclusions don’t apply here.

• Pine
  : Have you drawn any conclusions so far? Do you still suspect Jase and tarsonisocelot most (with reasons, please)? What do you think of the allegations against your predecessor crazypianist1116?
  
• mastin2
  : What do you think about Setael’s case against Zdenek and me? What are your general reads on everyone? Is your case/vote against tarsonisocelot based on the first five pages?
  
• tarsonisocelot
  : Isn’t there anything to comment on Setael’s case?
  
• Me=Weird
  : Why do you suspect Setael and Pine most? Setael because of her walls? Pine because of… what exactly? Your last statement about crazypianist1116 was on Day 2 in #429 where you read him as null-scum.

Don’t worry, I’ll state questions to the others as well, soon.

[Me=Weird]

Not getting much of a read either way on mastin, although it does strike me as a bit odd that he disapproves of a wagon on someone he doesn't have a read on yet.
Another point against TIO is that he insists his town read on UP hasn't changed, he's still put UP on his top 3 scumlist, without much reasons.

Me=Weird: Why do you suspect Setael and Pine most? Setael because of her walls? Pine because of… what exactly? Your last statement about crazypianist1116 was on Day 2 in #429 where you read him as null-scum.

Seriously, read my posts. I'm not going to answer this question again. I initially suspected RotN for completely non-contributing, plus (lack of) interactions from C-worl, and setael hasn't changed that. The huge wall post cases are easy to fake as scum, as I've seen happen multiple times.
About pine, I don't? Maybe you're thinking of chk, now mastin, who I somewhat suspected because of trying to lynch lurkers and not really interacting with anyone.

[tarsonisocelot]

Not getting much of a read either way on mastin, although it does strike me as a bit odd that he disapproves of a wagon on someone he doesn't have a read on yet.
Another point against TIO is that he insists his town read on UP hasn't changed, he's still put UP on his top 3 scumlist, without much reasons.

Me=Weird: Why do you suspect Setael and Pine most? Setael because of her walls? Pine because of… what exactly? Your last statement about crazypianist1116 was on Day 2 in #429 where you read him as null-scum.

Seriously, read my posts. I'm not going to answer this question again. I initially suspected RotN for completely non-contributing, plus (lack of) interactions from C-worl, and setael hasn't changed that. The huge wall post cases are easy to fake as scum, as I've seen happen multiple times.
About pine, I don't? Maybe you're thinking of chk, now mastin, who I somewhat suspected because of trying to lynch lurkers and not really interacting with anyone.

Misrep. That list isn't a scumlist. It's current reads on the people who've been bombarding the thread with walls.

[Jase]

Seriously, read my posts. I'm not going to answer this question again.

I initially suspected RotN for completely non-contributing, plus (lack of) interactions from C-worl, and setael hasn't changed that.

The huge wall post cases are easy to fake as scum, as I've seen happen multiple times.
About pine, I don't? Maybe you're thinking of chk, now mastin, who I somewhat suspected because of trying to lynch lurkers and not really interacting with anyone.

Unvote
Vote: Me=Weird

Ok no. I already called you out on this. Saying that Set has not contributed is objectively wrong. You can't possibly being paying attention to the things you are saying. Not if you're town, and at this point I'm reasonable sure you're not. Also of course Set hasn't changed her slots interaction with C-worl SHE WAS NOT IN THE GAME UNTIL AFTER C-WORL WAS LYNCHED. You're trying to build a case up out of nothing. No points in your case are actually points in a case.

[Me=Weird]

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG
You know what else is objectively wrong? Saying that I said setael hasn't made contributions. I said her contributions by no means make her town, or are genuine. Neither do I believe the former, as for the latter, she

may

be bussing. I also never made the point that she didn't interact with c-worl. I first talked about RotN, which I'll just use instead of previous slot occupants, then lack of interactions

from

c-worl. As in,

C-Worl

failed to interact with this slot.
YOU are the one building a case out of nothing.

[Me=Weird]

Also, at TIO, I'm talking about this scumlist:

Skimmed the walls. Lynch preference of those most involved (level of scumminess): Zdenek>Setael>Uncle Pain (whose acronym I keep misreading as undead penguin).

[tarsonisocelot]

Also, at TIO, I'm talking about this scumlist:

Skimmed the walls. Lynch preference of those most involved (level of scumminess): Zdenek>Setael>Uncle Pain (whose acronym I keep misreading as undead penguin).

of those most involved

Not a full list. A list of only those who posted walls.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Me=Weird

[Setael]

Me=Weird is town.

TO is scum. Probably with Zdenek.

Zdenek is the common denominator. He should be lynched today.

vote: Zdenek

[Jase]

I initially suspected RotN for completely non-contributing, plus (lack of) interactions from C-worl, and setael hasn't changed that.

@jase: Setael because I found it scummy how the other members of her slot didn't contribute, and because she hasn't done much anything to change that.

You DID say both of those things. Right here in this sentence that I quoted right above In the post you just responded to, and in this earlier post. Not, "I don't like/agree with her contribution' but "No contribution" is clearly what you said.

Yeah, you say that the slot previously did not contribute, and had suspicious interaction with c-worl. You then say "and setael hasn't changed that." The first part is clearly wrong and the second part doesn't make sense.

I also don't like the attempt to discredit my case. As it is just as wrong as the thing I first called you out for. Not only that but you're backpedaling. Saying I never said "X" when you clearly did, or trying to spin things in a more favorable light.

Also, could you explain the bit about "She could be bussing" ? I'm not sure how that relates to what I said.

[mastin2]

/Trying to decipher things. (Have been busy with a RL project, sorry, but will still be ready before deadline.)

[Uncle Pain]

Seriously, read my posts. I'm not going to answer this question again. I initially suspected RotN for completely non-contributing, plus (lack of) interactions from C-worl, and setael hasn't changed that. The huge wall post cases are easy to fake as scum, as I've seen happen multiple times.
About pine, I don't? Maybe you're thinking of chk, now mastin, who I somewhat suspected because of trying to lynch lurkers and not really interacting with anyone.

Erm, please read your own ISO. I

did

mean Pine’s slot (Pine is crazypianist1116’s successor) and I was referring to your statement in #554 (which isn’t that long ago) where you mention crazypianist1116 as one of your main suspects. You never gave a reason for this, the only clue I’ve got was said #429 where you state a null-scum read on him because of a lack of commitment – but this was back on Day 2. Now that Pine has taken over, I’d like you to restate your thoughts about that slot.
Regarding Setael, I think you could have worded it better to avoid misunderstanding – my take on it was the same as Jase’s. What you can’t deny is that you said Setael didn’t contribute, just as her predecessors, which is totally wrong because she did contribute a lot – regardless of what you think about walls. You yourself state that her activity and her walls should be considered a null tell because scum could also fake it. So as far as I see, you have no valid scum tell on her, hence your suspicions against the slot can only be based on the play of her predecessors?

Me=Weird is town.

TO is scum. Probably with Zdenek.

Could you at least explain how you come to each of these conclusions? Especially the first one.

[Powerrox93]

Zdenek has been V/LA. He has one day before he get prodded.

[Powerrox93]

Votecount 3.11

Updated as of post #621

Setael (2) - Me=Weird, Pine
mastin2 (2) - Zdenek, imaginality
Me=Weird (2) - Jase, tarsonisocelot
tarsonisocelot (1) - mastin2
Zdenek (1) - Setael

Not voting (1) - Uncle Pain

If there's a mistake let me know.
9 Alive == 5 to Lynch && 5 to No-Lynch

Setael

will be lynched at deadline if votes doesn't change

V/LA

Uncle Pain: June 11-12
Powerrox93: June 17-23. Empking will look over the game during that time

Deadline

June 14 14:00 CEST

[imaginality]

Recent posts:

581 Me=Weird - I like this post. Good point about chkflip's response to his criticism of his (lack of) posting. Also, I agree Setael's unvoting in preparation for possibly changing her seems odd.

584 Pine - I quite like the "Can anyone tell me why they haven't been lynched?" line. Not that anyone answered but it seems a useful question to ask for trying to form reads based on people's answers. In my view: Jase didn't get lynched because once he'd explained his reaction-testingy early play, he was very obvtown from then on. tarsonisocelot didn't get lynched because [L] looked pretty scummy. I actually forgot tarsonisocelot was second wagon for the latter part of that day though. Might explain why C-Worl took the chance to quickhammer?

593 mastin2 - as mentioned, criticising the wagon on Setael without having formed a read on her yet seems suspicious. 595 doesn't really excuse it, since it came across as expressing disapproval (especially since the 'neither' equates it with the wagon on himself, which he can be expected to disapprove of), rather than merely a null read.

The excessive excusing of his slow re-reading seems.. hm.

@mastin2

, can you provide a few links to other games you've replaced into recently?

598 mastin2 - The tarsonisocelot suspicion seems vaguely expressed, especially "I'm not sure if it's logic, gut, or a combination thereof which makes me suspicious of her."" Usually easy to tell logic from gut, I'd say. I'm wondering if the "I suspect TO but not too sure, maybe I'm tunnelling" is an attempt to get someone else to make a case against her first.

601 mastin2 - four days to complete your re-read, that close to deadline? I don't like the attitude of "that should leave enough time to stop mislynches". I feel like you were hoping to let town get on with mislynching and not have to contribute to the discussion in the meantime, until it was down to one or two wagons.

At least the deadline's extended now so we should have a decent amount of time to mull over the conclusions of your re-read/VCA.

607 Setael - Don't like this comment to Uncle Pain: "Are you seriously trying to make me look suspicious for NOT tunneling?" You can not tunnel and not unvote, you know...

What do YOU think of TO's statement that she finds both you and Zdenek town (him less so but meh) but if Zdenek flipped scum you'd be guaranteed scum? I have a huge problem with it, especially considering she hasn't said what if anything she agrees with as far a connections between you 2. I'm surprised you don't have a problem with it as well IF you're not scum with zdenek.

If UP = scum and Zdenek = scum, he'd also have reason to want to cast doubt on the "If Zdenek flips scum UP is scum" hypothesis. So him casting doubt on it would be pretty null, which means him not casting doubt on it is also kinda null.

608 Jase - I still feel like C-Worl seemed so clearly the likely lynch from so early D2 that scum are more likely on that wagon than off it. (For example, no-one backed up Zdenek's "the hammer wasn't scummy" suggestion, and even Zdenek offered that too weakly to seem like scum genuinely trying to save scum from a lynch.)

610 Uncle Pain - I like this question to tarsonisocelot:

I don’t get this. You’ve seen me as a townie all the time. Now you look for connections and find a good scum team: Setael and Zdenek. It would then be sensible to lynch Zdenek BUT should he flip scum (as you expect) suddenly I am likely scum. WTF?

613 Jase (and 618) - I think this is overly harsh on Me=Weird. I read his sentence as 'Setael hasn't changed that [read]' - it's clear from the following sentence he acknowledges she's been more active.

616 tarsonisocelot - I don't like how she jumped on the Me=Weird wagon here.

Setael (2) - Me=Weird, Pine
mastin2 (2) - Zdenek, imaginality
Me=Weird (2) - Jase, tarsonisocelot
tarsonisocelot (1) - mastin2
Zdenek (1) - Setael

Not voting (1) - Uncle Pain

Not liking the spread here, we could do with starting to consolidate this.

The last few pages make me feel better about Me=Weird, worse about Setael, mastin2, and tarsonisocelot. I'll stick with my mastin2 vote for now, but I'm happy to support a tarsonisocelot wagon also. Those two are definitely my preferred lynch choices for today. I could potentially be convinced to vote Setael, Pine or Me=Weird (in order of preference) but it would take a better case than I've seen so far. Not interested in Zdenek (mainly because I don't think his defending C-Worl is that strong of a point, and his town read on Uncle Pain early today looked much more likely from town than scum), Uncle Pain or Jase (both those two, especially Jase, have looked very town to me for most of the game).

[Uncle Pain]

As for my questions to the rest of you…

• Jase
  : Do you think Setael’s slot is town? How come you have so far seldom mentioned your thoughts about crazypianist1116/Pine?
  
• Zdenek
  :
  (as a direct follow-up to #605)
  What was/is the nature of my activity that makes you think I’m town?
  
• imaginality
  : Don’t you think that Me=Weird’s contradictions/backpedaling pointed out by Jase hold some water?
  
• Setael
  : see #620.