Team Mafia: White Flag Mafia

[Equinox]

Bit of an oddball question probably, but it's relevant: LlamaFluff, how are you usually with catching breadcrumbs? Links to games would be helpful, too.

[LlamaFluff]

Bit of an oddball question probably, but it's relevant: LlamaFluff, how are you usually with catching breadcrumbs? Links to games would be helpful, too.

Pretty bad.

[Amrun]

Once again, you and Equinox are conveniently ignoring what actually happened. I didn't set out to defend Llama or anything. I just made a comment that iPie was misinterpreting Llama's post, Equinox ASKED me what I thought about it, so I answered.

So, Equinox, if you thought it was better for me to wait for llama, then you probably shouldn't have asked me about it. Convenient how you forget that you actually prompted what you are taking issue with.

Ipie, I wasn't looking for scum or town points with the Cold War example. My point was that it's a null tell, not a scumtell. I don't understand why anyone is trying to cal that a null tell. Seems rather silly. What Cold War is is proof that Llama and I in particular will defend each other as town if we have town reads on each other. If you want to argue we would do it as scum, then okay, go ahead, but my point is that we have and would do it as town. So this thing you're hemming and hawwing about means nothing.

As for Llama's towniness, I already explained that I do NOT think that LLama would defend a buddy like that, especially in this set up. So his interaction with DGB says that LLama is town pretty clearly to me.

If he's ever under any sort of pressure, I might go farther, but that should be enough, really. Llamascum plays for the longhaul. Check it out.

[Equinox]

I did not forget that I asked you.

Ipie, you drastically misinterpreted (what I interpreted as) LlamaFluff's intent in that post.

This is from before I ever touched it.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

[Equinox]

Pretty bad.

Hey, InflatablePie, remember that one time when you were hinting at something and LlamaFluff kinda pushed it and you thought it was egging you toward the modkill? (Hey, I thought the same thing at the start of Day 1.) This might be why.

Though he didn't provide my any links, so I gotta actually look this up myself... but it's a thought.

Let's wagon up Amrun, guys. Competing wagons for lulz?

[Equinox]

Okay, actually, now that I think about it, Amrun wasn't actually doing anything with that statement, though I wish she'd have waited for LlamaFluff to say that himself. Still, her explanation for jumping in stinks...

GAH. Gonna think about this more. I'll be on the road today, so I'll look at Sotty7 later.

Unvote

[Sotty7]

I suppose the question is somewhat obvious, but why should I remove this action and put it on someone else?

Because you're wrong. It's really that simple.

You say I make good points but you ignore them anyway. I used my RVS vote to figure out where you came from, “Alt detected” was a specific trigger phrase I threw out to push your buttons. Equi unhinged my plan and that annoyed me but her read was probably right and after she explained it so I completely dropped out out of my scum suspects.

If you are grouping me with DGB in that I was using your Alt status as a point against you why do I never mention it again after my first post? That doesn't fit your claim of me trying to lynch you or discredit you on that basis. DGB on the other hand kept bringing up your lurking and mentioning your townperson status though out the day.

I'm not guilty of that in the slightest. I realized you weren't an Alt and moved on. But this isn't necessary a town tell. I really think scum would have done the same, it's just that DGB didn't. Maybe she thought railing against an unlikely lynch would get her brownie points or that she was annoyed you were pseudo cleared, I don't know.

As for DGB calling me town, well yeah she did. Nothing I can do about that. At first she had down as scum though, but it became clear who had the mometum in the towns eye between myself and Marble she flipped. I'm not the only one she called town, does this tell apply to Equi for example? If you remember Equi and DGB fought over DGB town read of her. What do you think about that?

As for DGB not being a good player, I don't agree. While she plays an unorthodox style, she knows what she is doing. She is just as likely to have her buddies in her scum reads as her town ones. To be honest the only reason she was lynched on day one in this game was because she got caught a little by team meta. I don't think I have ever seen DGB get lynch on day one before.

[Sotty7]

I am tempted by a Fluff vote at this point. However I would be voting him based on his DGB defense day one and not anything that Pie/Equi have been pushing on him and Amrun in the recent posts. I'm will to cut Amrun a little slack here. I still think she should have waited but I can see her just reacting to the post as town as well as scum.

Pie, what about a DH vote here? His vote on Chris B is terrible combined with the rest of his play. Why so reluctant to vote here?

I think we're getting the point of needing a flip and having to come together to wagon someone up. I feel like everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room RE: DH right now. But whatever, let me know if this lynch isn't going to happen today and I will find something productive to do with my vote instead.

[Equinox]

How about this?

Unvote, Vote: DemonHybrid

I expect to return to SHINY THINGS.

[Sotty7]

<3

[DemonHybrid]

Pie, what about a DH vote here? His vote on Chris B is terrible

And yet you haven't explained why. In fact, you give a town read on Chris B while still scolding him on nearly every post that he makes, so...

[DemonHybrid]

Really, sotty? That was completely clear to you and can't see how that can mean "Wait, what was the case on DH again? I forgot and I need a reminder"?

When you read his question in the context of our conversation it was pretty obvious that he wanted me to explain the DH case in my own words. It looked like you saw something as a slip, when it wasn't, and proceeded to jump all over it.

DH how about you do something productive for a change and give your reads on the players left. Same request to Chris.

like this

While I'm in agreement with a lot of what Amrun says, I'm missing the argument that Sotty is town. I'm willing to hear a counter argument before I vote

lolwut?

This is the first I'm hearing that you find me scummy. How about you make a case on that instead?

and this

ChrisB: Sadly I agree with Equi that this guy is prob town still he's done Jack and shit all game.

also this

I suppose the question is somewhat obvious, but why should I remove this action and put it on someone else?

Because you're wrong. It's really that simple.

You say I make good points but you ignore them anyway.

this too.

Like, you're saying he's attacking you with absolutely no basis and you're sitting there with your finger up your nose wondering why and more importantly, not even starting to suspect him due to anything (like HIS lack of a presence, or his tendency to post sporadic but spread out mini-walls of cases that you say have no basis), so I haven't the slightest of what's going through your brain.

[DemonHybrid]

In fact, NOT A SINGLE PERSON has given me a solid, believable explanation on WHY they think Chris B is town. His play has been OPTIMAL newish scum play and you guys are focusing on fucking -Amrun-?!

[Amrun]

In fact, NOT A SINGLE PERSON has given me a solid, believable explanation on WHY they think Chris B is town. His play has been OPTIMAL newish scum play and you guys are focusing on fucking -Amrun-?!

I gave you one. You ignored it.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm listening, but I was more referring to DGB's clumsy attempt to redirect her wagon onto ChrisB. If that was a bus by DGB, I'll be impressed. I think she was trying to save her hide.

This isn't really good enough. DGB is competent enough to distance when needed.

Plus, you haven't commented on his play, which is the main point of my case.

[Amrun]

His play is clumsy, but I liked it day 1.

And day 2 he made a big ol' slip that just shows he's not scum.

[Sotty7]

Chris B is town on meta + interactions with DGB end of day one. It's that simple. He also has the best vote on me out of the three, case wise at least. I get the sense that he is trying and it feels genuine if off base.

DH, who else is scum outside Chris?

[DemonHybrid]

For right now (and I'll explain more if it's asked of me):

Amrun's replacement reads off as extremely strong. I'm not sure what to make of it, or her defense of me.
Llama's explanation that "Sevei and Llamarble are scumreads independently" was very weird.
I'm pretty okay with Sotty's suspicion and tunneling on me. She's using a lot of meta but it looks very genuine.
mith's tunneling, on the other hand, is bad. He's being very cautious with what he's saying and things look like elaborate future-lynch setups, such as the "Amrun can only be scum with DH" stuff that he put down. I'm not liking it.
After reading Sevei a lot more, I'm not comfortable with her lynch. Her attack on DGB just seems a little too real.

I still stand firmly by the theory that 1 scum was on DGB's wagon, 1 off. There's the problem of on-wagon/off-wagon probabilities. THAT'S why I'm having trouble finding a vote; most of the really scummy people today so far have been ON DGB's wagon but I'm looking back to probabilities. However, counting my scumreads with the amount of people on and off DGB's wagon, Amrun, ChrisB, LlamaFluff and Llamarble were off the wagon. All 4 of those slots have had scummy actions attributed to them (as well as townish actions). But at the same time, so has Thor and mith, who were on the wagon. I'm alright with IP, Sevei and sotty being solid town reads at this point, and because of that,

Vote: mith

, even though the greater probability is TECHNICALLY voting off the wagon.

As for the questions for me: DGB is a moderately hard person to read; I think IP asked me that. I didn't want to rush into a vote but you know that DGB's lurkiness really set off the scum radar for me for the most part. She's about a 7 out of 10 on a hard to read scale in comparison to other people. This is my first game with her, however, and the playerlist is very strong, so that might have a LOT of influence on my uneasiness of her; I'm very uneasy with a lot of peoples' lynches, as they have a lot of town AND scum motivation behind what they've been doing.

So, I would say at the moment that mith, LlamaFluff, ChrisB, Llamarble and Thor are my top 5 lynch candidates in that order. Amrun's really a conditional, but I'm not going to commit a read to that and speculate future lynches like mith did. Amrun and Klazam's spots by pure analysis get a town read from me at the moment; mith's flip, if the game continues, would have me look back at Amrun/Klazam's posts and re-evaluate my read on her.

[DemonHybrid]

His play is clumsy, but I liked it day 1.

And day 2 he made a big ol' slip that just shows he's not scum.

You mean the slip that really was null in the end, since it was ambiguous as to whether he really meant team QTs or scum daytalk?

[Amrun]

His play is clumsy, but I liked it day 1.

And day 2 he made a big ol' slip that just shows he's not scum.

You mean the slip that really was null in the end, since it was ambiguous as to whether he really meant team QTs or scum daytalk?

No, because it wasn't.

[DemonHybrid]

I'm used to that being the default. It was part of the reason I had the theory of you and IP working together - that would be entirely unworkable if day talk doesn't exist, and would partially explain why nobody else considered the theory.

I can also back up that I'm used to it being the default. I pointed towards my experience on the UKFF - you can see for yourself that I think there's maybe been one game that didn't have day talk if you go onto the site.

Oh, I missed this. I guess it was specified as scum daytalk. For some reason, I thought it was an ambiguous "scum can get advice from their QT" statement that was never explained.

This doesn't confirm anything though and I'm still not convinced. Using some meta to prove my point, I was just in 00's Band Mafia as Green Day; it was the game I was finishing up before completely focusing on this game. Tarsonisocelot, who's a relatively new player, claimed her band to be "Some band called Cage the Elephant; never really heard of them. Their main song is Free Love. Whatever." At the time, she sounded extremely convincing, because not only was she newer and not only did we assume that scum got no fakeclaims, it was also a very obscure song. She was relatively believed until endgame when other factors contributed to her and others' lynches; she ended up being Van Halen.

Anyway, my point is that

scum can lie

about behind-the-scenes stuff like that, like "assuming there's daytalk". Focus on Chris' play. DGB started throwing suspicion on Chris near the end of the day before getting lynched. Chris claims that he thought there was daytalk. However, he's making up cases with weak basis, active lurking and giving spread-out mini-wall posts, all of which are scumtells. Who CARES about whether he thought there was scum daytalk? Scum have night talk. Who cares whether DGB shifted suspicion on him at the -end- of the day? You realize that scum can do that to distance before the end of the day comes in order to relieve suspicion on them? It's the EARLY suspicions that really hit home as far as scum interaction goes and I'm really kinda shocked that everyone is arguing for Chris' innocence by forgetting that.

[DemonHybrid]

Did you stop to think that Chris started his Daytalk gibberish on Day 2? And did you stop to think that maybe, assuming he's scum, that he has a competent partner in a SEA of competent players?

[Amrun]

Except he didn't need a townie gambit. He was already not the lynch.

His play day 1 and the things he noticed made me think he was town with a level of confidence.

I'll look back and rethink it.

But for your sake, I'd think about another suspect you are willing to compromise on.

[InflatablePie]

Pie, what about a DH vote here?

I'll think about it. He's in my lynch pool, after all.

I think we're getting the point of needing a flip and having to come together to wagon someone up

I agree.

[InflatablePie]

^tags fail. Always preview first.

Pie, what about a DH vote here?

I'll think about it. He's in my lynch pool, after all.

I think we're getting the point of needing a flip and having to come together to wagon someone up

I agree.