ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[MagnaofIllusion]

Who, really was the first that performed this most heinous of acts?

Why, the person you're voting for. Which, if you believed that line for a second would sure as hell strengthened this point and make DGB AND Vezok likely scum together.

But you dont because its junk and just fists out swinging.

No. Just no.

I’m voting DGB (in serious mode) for her scumtastic reaction. You are jumping to crazy conclusions that “YOU DON’T BELIEVE YOUR THEORY BECAUSE DGB MUST BE SCUM WITH VEZOK”.

1.) Amount can be quibbled. You've said not once but twice now "I only think there is juicy, juicy scum there IF Vezok is scum." that is not a statement of proportions. That is an IFF.
2.) Go ahead and show that key word "all" in what DGB said. Then, when you cant, go ahead and get back to me.

1. No fucking didn't. I pointed out that my being attacked for calling a large amount of scum (aka juicy juicy scum) on that wagon was dependant on VEZOK BEING SCUM, That doesn’t mean that if Vezok is Town there isn't scum there. Just that it's not ripe for the picking. You’re drawing incorrect conclusions.
2. I’ll quote for you –

...that list. He's already got a list of players that aren't just scummy, but juicy juicy scum. Lined up to be picked off. He's scum licking his chops at

the thought of a whole lineup of townies

eating rope.

I’ve bolded for you. Please tell me the clear inference isn’t that everyone in that group is Town. Please.

Its the weird that wagon has scum on if IF vezok is scum business that I'm saying is shenanigans.

If Vezok is scum there is undoubtedly more scum on that wagon than if he is Town. Guarenteed. You can’t argue that with a straight face we go

Vote LMP
Vote Vezok
Vote LMP time 7 or 8

And not have that pattern support more scum if Vezok is scum.

Well, you can’t if you don’t live in Fantasyland.

--

This is a very good point. I've caught MOI-scum making ridiculously obvious "this wagon has scum on it" statements before. Specifically in this game and more specifically in this post.

Oh you caught me? In that game where I went all the way to LYLO?

Selective posting for the loss. I advise everyone to read that game and see how often LMP votes for and presses me.

[LimMePls]

Oh you caught me? In that game where I went all the way to LYLO?

Selective posting for the loss. I advise everyone to read that game and see how often LMP votes for and presses me.

What does how often I vote you in that game have anything to do with the comparability of your behavior in that game and this?

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

[hasdgfas]

I like this better.

… Spreads arms wide ….

Translation – elaborate on why you like Lost Butterfly better.

I know what my own action from ASoS meant

here you go:

FOS: LMP

What credibility did the wagon have?

Guess.

#1: Deliberate lack of information here. The burden of proof was on LB to back up his statement that the wagon had credibility. Instead, he tries to have LMP tell him the reasons for his wagon. This is like saying "LMP, why are you scummy?" I think it's more likely that scum would try to entrap someone like that.

I think your last point assumes optimal town play Empking, in that town can do scummy things, however I agree with your conclusion so I don't really care too much.

#2: What is this post? Seriously, what is it saying? "I disagree with you, but I agree with you"

#3: his ISO posts 11-13 are cute little accusatory one-liners without backup. Again, burden of proof.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

Nope. Pointing out that you are trying to draw an bad link between me being scum there and me being scum here isn't belittling.

It's defending myself from a crap attack.

Case in point - you linked to that game. Was I belittiling and undermining there? Anyone is free to go look at Return to Liten to make their own assessment.

You, however, are playing to your 'Storm of Swords' scum meta - aka your Day 2 Feysal case. You kept throwing whatever crap you could against him to acheive a mislynch. There it was because your partner Zdenek was under fire. Here it is possible SK is a partner to you and since he is the other viable wagon you are going to the well again.

That actually fits nicely with your cute little "Vote SK OMGUS" you made in your first post. Get that early but pointless distancing vote in.

[Lost Butterfly]

Hasdgfas: What do you think of SaintKerrigan?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Lost Butterfly - What do you think of me?

[Lost Butterfly]

I was okay with Setael's original point, I just disagreed with it. LMP's vote is spectacularly crap based on garbage meta though. And it doesn't look like a Bus.

Town.

[Bilbo Baggins]

I am so totally from the wrong epic fantasy series, aren't I?

SPYREEEX!!! Your rhymes make me flashback to our first ever game together.

UNVOTE:

So if you knew her vig claim was a joke, and your cc was a joke, why did you vote DGB? Especially with all these juicy scum on the LMP wagon, why not single out the one you found scummiest and vote them?

I voted DGB to get a reaction. Not that hard to understand. And I got one in spades.

No. This 'lol reactions fake counterclaim' is just

bizarre

, especially from him. Countering an obvious joke (with a vote, even) seems to have no purpose and so is questionable. Trying to turn it around and say that out of his reaction fishing was the reaction he was gunning for is manipulative and scummy and false and wrong.

But you took my joke counter-claim of your vig claim DEADLY seriously. And it clearly was a joke. I’m not a moron who out himself as Vig Page 1 to a joke claim. I would have just shot you if that was the case.

My vote is good where it is. Outsized reaction to a single vote recorded for posterity.

DGB is scum of some sort. Lynch away!

No. Questioning something weird and not finding a pro-Town reason to do the weird thing is normal. Reaction fishing goes from questionable to scummy when the behavior

doesn't make sense

and the reactions react to the unsensability of it. Calling the reaction 'outsized' is using reaction fishing to justify your own ends. And that last line is just off, especially the little cap with the exclamation point; calls for lynch with excessive faked cheerfulness?

But I'm perturbed by the same sort of thing DGB is, albeit I'm less certain of relationships, when it comes to your initial stance on the LMP wagon. There's a lot of initial animosity in Vezok's general direction - suggesting he should have been power-wagoned, and that lots of things will become clear if he's scum. There is no expression of effort in terms of actually attacking the question of whether Vezok is scum or how much of a priority that should be - I'll give this a little because Vezok hadn't actually posted. But the focus on connections which are vague enough now and dependent on something happening in the future

which MoI did not support with his vote even as he insinuated that it would be useful

is a lot of hypothetical talk and no initiative taken, nor responsibility. It might or might not be far in the future the way DGB put it - but it's putting a hinge on something

3. Lining up lynches – a classic go to “Wiki Tell” for scum to use.

Guess what's also a classic Wiki Tell for scum to use? It's the old classic 'that guy's using a Wiki Tell that scumbag!'. That's not a rebuttal.

Again you keep dodging the issue about the LMP wagon – I only think there is juicy, juicy scum there IF Vezok is scum.

And you keep dodging the issue that this connection-speculating if you're unwilling to support Vezok-death is scummy false initiative. Distracting.

Magua. Your logic is flawed re DGB's meta post-structure variations; I don't think I need to point out where. Please just focus.

Holy page explosion, Batman!

So, why, yes, seeing as there are a couple walls of text already, I am going to shamelessly jump on the SK wagon. The "I'm rusty as hell" card (like most cards) + very weird answers to questions (by the way, the rusty-card is considered one of the weird answers) isn't going to cut it. Sorry SK.

VOTE: SaintKerrigan

Ping! There's so much packed in here it's amazing. A vote can either be shameless or supported by stuff, if you want to term them like that, but this uses the shameless card to play as carefree wind-in-my-hair Townie while nervously putting in a little 'this and this seems off' to justify jumping on. Using the fact that there have been wallposts to directly justify jumping on the SK wagon when there is a

middle ground

, after all,

is

shamelessly manipulative in pretending to be the helpful Townie in not posting too much. And the apology? There's no sincerity in the decision to have posted that apology (a sincere decision doesn't require a sincere apology - I mean that it looks inorganic as a part of the post).

But if you think Maemuki is scum, and Maemuki is voting SaintKerrigan, why are you still voting SaintKerrigan?

...Magua and SaintKerrigan have something going on. This post had a: "So you're suspicious of this one, so unvote mah friend" vibe to it.

Read the posts and try again. Also, stop making connections, especially such vague ones. "Something going on" is a useful thing to say in case one of them looks like a more or less attractive target later on. And it is fake fake fake scumhunting, completely divorced from analysis of context.

Who, really was the first that performed this most heinous of acts?

Why, the person you're voting for. Which, if you believed that line for a second would sure as hell strengthened this point and make DGB AND Vezok likely scum together.

But you dont because its junk and just fists out swinging.

No. Just no.

I’m voting DGB (in serious mode) for her scumtastic reaction. You are jumping to crazy conclusions that “YOU DON’T BELIEVE YOUR THEORY BECAUSE DGB MUST BE SCUM WITH VEZOK”.

But once you realized DGB was scum for realz and people were still discussing your Vezok scum = LMP wagon choosers are more likely scum, it

is

likely you'd be thinking about it, and, sincerely holding to your prediction, considered what DGB-scum would mean about the LMP wagon vs. Vezok.

VOTE: MoI

- Plum

[LimMePls]

MOI is ABSOLUTELY playing his scum game right now. He takes little belittling shots like this at people when he's scum. Anything he can to try and undermine someone's credibility he will do.

Nope. Pointing out that you are trying to draw an bad link between me being scum there and me being scum here isn't belittling.

Nice deflection. The belittling is the "you never caught me in that game" bit, not the "pointing out a bad link". You try to undermine me with that throw away "oh you never voted me" buisness. You still haven't explained WTF that has to do with whether or not it's a fair comparison. Because it has dick all to do with it, but you're more interested in making a slick point than in showing my argument to be false if it is.

You also did have not explained why the comparison is bad, you only call it a bad link. So double fail.

[SpyreX]

No. Just no.

I’m voting DGB (in serious mode) for her scumtastic reaction. You are jumping to crazy conclusions that “YOU DON’T BELIEVE YOUR THEORY BECAUSE DGB MUST BE SCUM WITH VEZOK”.

I'm not saying lol, reactions has anything to do with this.

I'm saying if you believed what you said as an additive part you would have clearly stated the connection you yourself were drawing through:

1.) If vezok is scum, the LMP wagon is filled with scum protecting vezok.
2.) DGB is scum because of lol, reactions.
3.) DGB was one that made the LMP wagon.
4.) Therefore, 1 & 2 support each other.

There's no 4. Not even a pretend 4.

1. No fucking didn't. I pointed out that my being attacked for calling a large amount of scum (aka juicy juicy scum) on that wagon was dependant on VEZOK BEING SCUM, That doesn’t mean that if Vezok is Town there isn't scum there. Just that it's not ripe for the picking. You’re drawing incorrect conclusions.

Again you keep dodging the issue about the LMP wagon – I only think there is juicy, juicy scum there IF Vezok is scum.

So yes fucking did.

If what you were

implying

is that there's obvious and multiple scum IF Vezok is scum then who? Because that sure as hell would be back to the above.

Which leads pretty well into:

2. I’ll quote for you –

I asked for the word all. ALL.

So again how many scum are there? Its a cult game afterall.

So pretty sure there is a whole lineup of townies there. Unless we're arguing the word whole means all but only means butterflies when you say it.

If Vezok is scum there is undoubtedly more scum on that wagon than if he is Town. Guarenteed. You can’t argue that with a straight face we go

Vote LMP
Vote Vezok
Vote LMP time 7 or 8

And not have that pattern support more scum if Vezok is scum.

Well, you can’t if you don’t live in Fantasyland.

Considering I'm a POWERFUL WIZARD well I'll get on my broom and fly there.

LynchMePls (8) - SaintKerrigan, hasdgfas, DrippingGoofball, Thor665, Nexus, SpyreX, Hinduragi, Lost Butterfly

How many of those votes were for pure giggles? How many of those thought that ANY of this was anything more then beautiful chicanery?

Now, is there scum there? Yea. Is the scum there a function of protecting vezok (and again, PROTECTING VEZOK) versus jumping on the funwagon to awesome town in case it actually went through?

The kicker?

If you actually wanted to make a case on DGB being scum it would have made a whole lot more sense tying it together with vezok being scum. DGB shifted that wagon, AGM said he'd prefer vezok on page 2 and that spawned the whole "ohh, I'll take care of it." DGB was cheering for the lynch like it'd actually happen.

You know, like if you believed it yourself.

None of that. No actually looking at whats going on aside from DGB is scum for her reaction.

----

Preview edit:

Now LMP is scum? Ohhhh man

[LimMePls]

To make myself clear:

Oh you caught me? In that game where I went all the way to LYLO?

Selective posting for the loss. I advise everyone to read that game and see how often LMP votes for and presses me.

What does how often I vote you in that game have anything to do with the comparability of your behavior in that game and this?

ASKED AND NOT ANSWERED IN 103.

[Locke Lamora]

Hi everyone.

Vote: LMP

[Lost Butterfly]

Hi everyone.

Vote: LMP

^ town.

[Lost Butterfly]

Though if you could vote for his buddy SK it'd be real swell too~

[Locke Lamora]

If only I had two votes.

[Thor665]

MoI is not a good day 1 lynch, even if you think he's scum.
He'll be a good Day 2 lynch though.

You done best be explainin yo

MoI is not a good day 1 lynch, even if you think he's scum.
He'll be a good Day 2 lynch though.

Explain this please.

Really? I'm not sure if both of you are pulling my leg or being pedantic or what. Let's settle for a simple, MoI is not a good Day 1 lynch, and we can debate the rest tomorrow.

@MoI - I have a question, mostly I just skim over your walls anyway so maybe I'm missing something, but here;

1. You believe that if Vezok is scum, that the LMP wagon has a disproportionate amount of scum on it.
2. DGB calls you out for lining up a bunch of town mislynches.
3. You vote DGB and she is scummy because she's aware that there is a lot of town on the LMP wagon.

Did I follow that correctly?

@LostButterfly - it's amazing, I hadn't realized it was scummy to vote Lost Butterfly in this game. Man, now we'll definitely have to lynch you because than we'll know the entire wagon is scum. Win/win, yeah?

[Lost Butterfly]

@LostButterfly - it's amazing, I hadn't realized it was scummy to vote Lost Butterfly in this game. Man, now we'll definitely have to lynch you because than we'll know the entire wagon is scum. Win/win, yeah?

might want to read the thread in closer detail, champ.

[Thor665]

I skim a lot, but I do recall you calling both SK and me in quick succession scum while quoting our votes for you as evidence. What did I miss?

[Lost Butterfly]

If only I had two votes.

SK has a bigger wagon!

[Bilbo Baggins]

An Andy/Plum hydra? Yeah, I could be down with killing that too - but the Has thing sounds funnier so Bilbo can be town for a while.

Sooooo we're town for voting Cow? Making ol' NordIC gods belly-laugh?

Hobbit murderers are definitely not town.

Vote: Bilbo - He doesn't look sincere. "I must vote Has for winning a previous ASOIAF game." Doesn't make sense.

If you want me to go on bitterly raging and airing dirty laundry over HasCow's last win I'd be more than happy to- but since most of the people here have probably heard about it (SK an exception, and you too apparently) then I won't.

Explanation (ooba, if spoiler= tags aren't allowed feel free to smite them:

Spoiler:

Basically in the last ASOIAF game HasCow DayVig'd a Stark-Scum D1 and was insta-townified. However he had a post restriction that he never clearly defined and broke on multiple occasions. Despite my screaming that he was 100% irrevocably scum for faking the post restriction (having broken it) and lurked- IT IS ALWAYS POSSIBLE TO PLAY LIKE A TOWN GOD WITH A POST RESTRICTION. PR =/= YOu CANNOT PLAY OR HAVE READS OR SUSPECT PEOPLE. HasCow made it to Endgame against two townies and sat there without a slight read on either of them. He won, of course, and its famous because no one besides DGB and I ever called him out for faking the PR.

So yes. Its a sore subject and definitely a Cassandra Win for me.
So to call me insincere for that vote is, to be frank, bollocks.

Magua: Funny, because I find there much dignity behind dying N1. Though if he isn't dead by D3 in a ASOIAF game he's guaranteed scum, sooo.

Magna:

Hinduragi can't be cult because they can't recruit until N2, as per the rules.

I suddenly see what you're saying. What if they started out with more than one member?

1.There is a cult in this game.
2.The cult will be able to recruit from N2 onwards.

But Magna, you're basically saying that if vezok flips scum then the other scumbags are hiding out on the LMP wagon- so if vezok does flip scum (and I can see you bussing her D1

daykilling her D1

) then you're perfectly setting up mislynches down the line by saying the scum are hiding in the competing, larger, LMP wagon.
This of course, doesn't necessitate LMP_town if vezok_scum, but y'know.

IIRC SK was the one who started the LMP wagon, yes?
Yes, yes he did. So you're fine with a RVS vote but not the pressure?

If Vezok flipped scum, I'd actually look at you as a likely buddy for trying to tie random voters to him.

Pretty much this.
Also, defense of SK noted.

I'm good at SIRIUS BIZNISS, DGB.

Basically, Magna's the strongest scumread at the moment. *Insert MoI vote here, but Plum already got to it so we're all good*
DGB is awesome. I love DGB_town second only to DGB_Mason. <3

A real vig doesn't counterclaim, a real vig shoots the fakeclaimant in the dark.

We should've shot hito, DGB. That would have been sweeter than sugah.

3. Lining up lynches – a classic go to “Wiki Tell” for scum to use.

Yet I find it to be a scumtell.

I find the whoe vig-vig claim-counterclaim thing funny mainly because the last time I was vig I was DGB's right hand. lol

DGB is scum of some sort.

Remind me to get back to this sometime. The line, that is.
I'm not sure how to read it and might need to do some research.

You guys are going to try my brain talking mafia theory. I'm sorry, but if you're going to talk Fonzian scumtells and theory-land I'm going to take 5 and be back later.
Though HasCow's point on Empking is rather interesting. Might do some digging in regards to Empking scumplay.

Ergo, DGB posting coherent thoughtful posts that I agree with is a scumtell.

I don't like your line of thinking, just because it takes responsiblity away from you. Like "oh DGB-meta this, DGB-meta not that, therefore DGB scum" so you're not really involved at all. Idk, that vote just reads scummy for miles.

#61 is such an amazing post.

Soooo what do you see as amazing? The case? Because you're not voting DGB. Is DGB scum, Faraday?

Don't know what to think about Maemuki. I don't like her posting and agree with AGM its scummy but I gut read her town. Not just from meta, but. Also, I think late-entry scum would actually promise more content/reading later. Mae just entered and did her thing. Its the little things.

MoI is not a good day 1 lynch,

even if you think he's scum.

Run this by me one more time. How does a scumlynch =/= a good lynch?
(Boldface mine.)

YESSS. PLUM VOTED MAGNA. <3 We rock.

Considering I'm a POWERFUL WIZARD well I'll get on my broom and fly there.

Do dead POWERFUL WIZARDS get brooms?

Let's settle for a simple, MoI is not a good Day 1 lynch, and we can debate the rest tomorrow.

This is not sufficient.

-A

I should get back to you with stuff I want to look at later, with some QT-first reads as well.

[Lost Butterfly]

I skim a lot, but I do recall you calling both SK and me in quick succession scum while quoting our votes for you as evidence. What did I miss?

I don't think you're scum. SK isn't scum for voting me, that's pretty blatantly not what I'm saying.

I said your post was terrible, as in bad, not scummy though. Your meta on me is just....pretty wrong, that's all. I don't really think I've sheeped anyway. I don't believe hascow is scum at this point either, but his points against me to me seem to come down to me being difficult and not willing to answer LMP's stupid question (which he didn't even care to follow up, thus further showing it was a stupid question)

Also SK's post where he re-votes us based on our 'new posts' seems disisgenous as there's no sheeping between the time he leaves and come back. It's even worse when he's far guiltier of sheeping and no content than pretty much anyone but Maemuki so far. You should vote him.

PEDIT: I'll take 'what is sarcasm' for 500 Andrius. I'm pretty sure Magua was trollin'. DGB is null.

[Lost Butterfly]

EBWOP: 'sheeping' as opposed to sheeping.

[hasdgfas]

Hasdgfas: What do you think of SaintKerrigan?

I don't understand all the heat on him(?).

I only see this:

Unvote: Lost Butterfly
Vote: MagnaofIllusion

Also, yay I haz votes!

as scummy from SK, but I don't see it as enough for votes, as I found you jumping on her more questionable than anything she did.

[Magua]

I don't like your line of thinking, just because it takes responsiblity away from you. Like "oh DGB-meta this, DGB-meta not that, therefore DGB scum" so you're not really involved at all. Idk, that vote just reads scummy for miles.

The One Ring has decimated your sense of humor, I see.

Can you get on with dayvigging scum so I can get on with sheeping you?

What do you think about AlmasterGM?

[Benmage]

Okay before I read PG 5 and on:

MOI, potentially.

I like what Spys getting at with MoI.

Moreover I like post 98. I think it is possible MoI could recognize vezo as a weak partner and look to make shitty associative tells.