Battle for Olympus - Game Over!

[AlmasterGM]

Okay, I was really tempted by MoI's argument about gandalf not forgetting the picture, so I actually did some research. This is the image he is talking about (it meets the description): http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv16 ... NZOMAN.jpg

Here's the thing:

If you search "eris goddess," "Eris, Greek God of Chaos and Discord," or "eris goddess of chaos," (all without quotes) it DOES NOT come up as a hit. If you search "eris greek goddess" or "eris greek goddess of discord," it DOES. However, it does not come up as the first hit, and there are plenty of clear, vivid images that come up before it.

I find it unlikely the scum were provided fakeclaim pictures, so I'm tempted to believe gandalf's claim. If he was fake claiming, I think it's more likely he would have either copy/pasted his full role name into the search engine or strongly abbreviated it, both of which return plenty of usable image results, but NOT the one he is describing. The only way he'd get the one he's talking about is if he searched for something oddly unique and then decided to scroll down and use a more obscure image ... something I don't see gandalf-scum bothering to do (especially when he didn't even have the thought to double-check and make sure he was getting his gender correct).

BUUUUUUT ... I'm still tempted, because there are other factors too and I don't want to put all my eggs in a basket reliant on gandalf's ability to use Google. I'll think about it. Right now, still leaning LC.

[MagnaofIllusion]

AGM- WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SMOKING!!!!

SERIOUSLY YOU'VE MADE ME GO CAPSLAWK WITH THAT INSANITY.

YOU DON'T THINK SCUM WERE PROVIDE PICS FOR THEIR FAKE-CLAIMS? YOU ARE BASING YOUR DEFENSE BASED ON MOD FUCKING OUTGUESSING????

I THOUGH GANDALF WAS NUMBER 2 ON YOUR LYNCH LIST!!!! WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THAT?

FUCKING EXPLAIN HOW GANDALF

SEES

THAT PIC THE FIRST TIME HE OPENS HIS ROLE PM AND

EVER EVER

MAKES THE MISTAKE IN CLAIMING HE'S A GOD.

EXPLAIN IT !!!!!!!

YOU FUCKING CAN'T. HE'S SCUM AND YOU NEED TO FUCKING VOTE HIM RIGHT NOW!!!!

[LordChronos]

Okay, I was really tempted by MoI's argument about gandalf not forgetting the picture, so I actually did some research. This is the image he is talking about (it meets the description): http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/vv16 ... NZOMAN.jpg

Here's the thing:

If you search "eris goddess," "Eris, Greek God of Chaos and Discord," or "eris goddess of chaos," (all without quotes) it DOES NOT come up as a hit. If you search "eris greek goddess" or "eris greek goddess of discord," it DOES. However, it does not come up as the first hit, and there are plenty of clear, vivid images that come up before it.

I find it unlikely the scum were provided fakeclaim pictures, so I'm tempted to believe gandalf's claim. If he was fake claiming, I think it's more likely he would have either copy/pasted his full role name into the search engine or strongly abbreviated it, both of which return plenty of usable image results, but NOT the one he is describing. The only way he'd get the one he's talking about is if he searched for something oddly unique and then decided to scroll down and use a more obscure image ... something I don't see gandalf-scum bothering to do (especially when he didn't even have the thought to double-check and make sure he was getting his gender correct).

BUUUUUUT ... I'm still tempted, because there are other factors too and I don't want to put all my eggs in a basket reliant on gandalf's ability to use Google. I'll think about it. Right now, still leaning LC.

What MoI just said + answer my question already.

[gandalf5166]

I don't thinly I was a god. I know too much about Greek myth to do that. I simply forgot the des at the end. And I dint redirect SD to agar. I redirected him to AV.

[gandalf5166]

Didn't think*

[gandalf5166]

Nice caps lock though. And that isn't useless selfmeta. That's me correcting you blatantly lying when you have personal experience that tells you I prefer being scum. And I'm glad that you have a case that doesn't hinge on two scumteams....... did you forget to post that one in the thread? Because right now it just looks like you're trying to cover your ass after making a HUGE contradiction. And yes, I brought up that you haven't died yet. You haven't. And that is definitely weird. I brought it up just now because up until now I hadn't taken a close look at you.

[gandalf5166]

nd yes, that is my picture, although mine was cropped so that I couldn't see the top end of the staff. That said, I seriously doubt scum don't have pics with their fakeclaims.

[Iecerint]

I know we got images with fakeclaims in Plum's Lay of Leithian, and I think Andy co-modded the follow-up LotR game.

We should've interrogated scum in the past. Ah well.

[AlmasterGM]

I know we got images with fakeclaims in Plum's Lay of Leithian, and I think Andy co-modded the follow-up LotR game.

We should've interrogated scum in the past. Ah well.

Oh, well nevermind then.

Unvote, Vote: gandalf

[AlmasterGM]

Also I made MoI CAPS. I'm proud.

[gandalf5166]

AGE, why are you voting me? What parts of the case do you still think are valid?

[AlmasterGM]

All of it.

[Chronopie]

I'm on limited Access for the next couple weeks, leading up to exams. [Study break]

Just throwing that out there.

[chesskid3]

less Q Q
more PEW PEW

[Gemini]

Katy and I have both been on V/LA. I'm just getting in and about to crash, but I can catch up tomorrow, probably in the afternoon. -mjaye

[Shadow Dancer]

@MoI: But if Gandalf had the picture in his fake PM he'd also stared at it and not forgotten that is is a god

dess

.... Unless he just carelessly copypasted the discription from his real role PM - which then would obviously not be Eris...
I cannot understand Alma's objection, though - I found the image without any problems both with googel images and with deviantarts search... And given the alternatives I got the picture was a rather obvious choice...

I trust MoI enough to second the proposition to empower him tonight. However, He'd lose his vote (if Gand didn't lie about that). Anyway - he is also a good target for Pie's extra vote.

@Gand: If your knowedge about Greek mythology is not muc more extensive than yours about Egyptian mythology I would not bother to bring that up as an argument.

Howevr I look at it, Gand is definitely a muc better vote than Chronos.

Unvote. Vote Gand

@Chronos: Have you claimed Zeus' last JoaT ability yet?

@Chess: Shut up. More than one proddodge post in 48 hours is over the requirement...

[ooba]

How do you know Snow was a tracker? Were there breadcrumbs I missed? Because Dekes’s word on the subject is pretty useless in that regard.

Make Artemis a tracker and make Ra a scum watcher with an apoolo fakeclaim. Not based on breadcrumbs; just seems a elegant addition to the setup.

@MoI - Understand that my passive is untestable; I guess the only way you can judge this is to see if my previous play is in line with whatever internal info I might have had with my PM from that time. (Basically what SD\Iece did)

---

@Mod: Need an extension until Nacho posts. Haven't had anything from that slot all day

@Gand: If your knowedge about Greek mythology is not muc more extensive than yours about Egyptian mythology I would not bother to bring that up as an argument.

Lol ..

LC needs to claim the third ability if I am right ..

[gandalf5166]

All of it.

I honestly can't even begin to understand what is going on between those two little brain calls of yours.

@MoI: But if Gandalf had the picture in his fake PM he'd also stared at it and not forgotten that is is a god

dess

.... Unless he just carelessly copypasted the discription from his real role PM - which then would obviously not be Eris...
I cannot understand Alma's objection, though - I found the image without any problems both with googel images and with deviantarts search... And given the alternatives I got the picture was a rather obvious choice...

I trust MoI enough to second the proposition to empower him tonight. However, He'd lose his vote (if Gand didn't lie about that). Anyway - he is also a good target for Pie's extra vote.

@Gand: If your knowedge about Greek mythology is not muc more extensive than yours about Egyptian mythology I would not bother to bring that up as an argument.

Howevr I look at it, Gand is definitely a muc better vote than Chronos.

Unvote. Vote Gand

@Chronos: Have you claimed Zeus' last JoaT ability yet?

@Chess: Shut up. More than one proddodge post in 48 hours is over the requirement...

I swear...:.... if you keep contradicting yourself like this, I'm going to need a fullclaim from nacho, because I don't understand how you can possibly be town. And FTR, I spent 90% of my childhood reading Jason and the Argonauts and the like.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@Everyone

– if you ascribe to Ooba’s two scum / Norse as second team theory I’d like you to consider Gandalf’s claim. His butchering of the God / Goddess in his claim fits nicely in with the possibility that he is Loki, the Norse Trickster God. It’s a nicely themed match to his claimed role.

--

less Q Q
more PEW PEW

Then move your vote to Gandalf.

--

Make Artemis a tracker and make Ra a scum watcher with an apoolo fakeclaim. Not based on breadcrumbs; just seems a elegant addition to the setup.

Meh. I’m not going to make assumptions based on what I think is an elegent set-up addition. You may be correct. You may be dead wrong (as you have been with some of your other speculations … Dekes for example). It’s not effective Town play to based reads on conjecture.

--

@MoI: But if Gandalf had the picture in his fake PM he'd also stared at it and not forgotten that is is a goddess.... Unless he just carelessly copypasted the discription from his real role PM - which then would obviously not be Eris...

Don’t outthink the room trying to figure out Gandalf’s play.

Ask yourself this –

Would Town Gandalf with the Role PM he is claiming make the mistakes in his claims that he did? If you can't reasonably see it then the remainig option is he isn't Town. In this case his inadventant 'typo' regarding Eris as God isn't something I can see from Town.

--

I don't thinly I was a god. I know too much about Greek myth to do that. I simply forgot the des at the end.

Let me get this straight. You always thought you were a Goddess. You just inadvertently forgot to typo –dess when making your claim. And this accidental typo just happens to cause the meaning of your posted Claim look exactly like a busted fake-claim.

No, not buying it.

And I dint redirect SD to agar. I redirected him to AV.

You are correct, you did claim to redirect him to AV. But you’ve managed to dodge the question at hand.

Why is it believable that SD as Serial Killer ‘slipped your mind’ when you had the full extent of Night to make your initial selection (redirecting Iec to AGM) but when you are faced with a snap decision due to the PM by Charon you suddenly remember “Hey, I need to redirect SD”?

And why was AV your choice for your second target? Here’s the list of your Day 1 posts that question / respond to / mention AV at all –

….

Yeah that’s right … none.

Nice caps lock though. And that isn't useless selfmeta. That's me correcting you blatantly lying when you have personal experience that tells you I prefer being scum.

Um Whut? Your choice selections in Blackest Night (which I didn’t even remember you were in since you flaked / replaced IN THE SIGN-UP THREAD) means you enjoy being scum? That's hardly Meta evidence seing as you DIDN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME.

And I'm glad that you have a case that doesn't hinge on two scumteams....... did you forget to post that one in the thread?

See, here I know you aren’t paying attention. I’ve been clearly stating since Ooba started the “Two Teams” talk that I don’t know whether there are multiple scum teams or just one. Anyone reading the thread would know this.

Your post above is just looking for anything you think you can claim is scummy so as to wiggle out of the noose that is waiting for you today.

And yes, I brought up that you haven't died yet. You haven't. And that is definitely weird. I brought it up just now because up until now I hadn't taken a close look at you.

How do you know I wasn’t the target of the ‘missing’ kill last night? Hmmmm? We haven't had to have protection claims as of yet.

And answer me this – if I was scum with Chesskid and LC why would I hand a Daykill to Iec? Hmmmm?

[gandalf5166]

Responses in bold.

@Everyone

– if you ascribe to Ooba’s two scum / Norse as second team theory I’d like you to consider Gandalf’s claim. His butchering of the God / Goddess in his claim fits nicely in with the possibility that he is Loki, the Norse Trickster God. It’s a nicely themed match to his claimed role.

You're getting REALLY desperate, aren't you?

--

less Q Q
more PEW PEW

Then move your vote to Gandalf.

--

Make Artemis a tracker and make Ra a scum watcher with an apoolo fakeclaim. Not based on breadcrumbs; just seems a elegant addition to the setup.

Meh. I’m not going to make assumptions based on what I think is an elegent set-up addition. You may be correct. You may be dead wrong (as you have been with some of your other speculations … Dekes for example). It’s not effective Town play to based reads on conjecture.

Another HUGE contradiction........ You reject this, but assume that all fakeclaims align with the real role based on a sample size of 1.......

--

@MoI: But if Gandalf had the picture in his fake PM he'd also stared at it and not forgotten that is is a goddess.... Unless he just carelessly copypasted the discription from his real role PM - which then would obviously not be Eris...

Don’t outthink the room trying to figure out Gandalf’s play.

Ask yourself this –

Would Town Gandalf with the Role PM he is claiming make the mistakes in his claims that he did? If you can't reasonably see it then the remainig option is he isn't Town. In this case his inadventant 'typo' regarding Eris as God isn't something I can see from Town.

You don't think it's possible that I looked at my role PM, then looked back, and in trying to paraphrase, I accidentally forget four fucking letters?

--

I don't thinly I was a god. I know too much about Greek myth to do that. I simply forgot the des at the end.

Let me get this straight. You always thought you were a Goddess. You just inadvertently forgot to typo –dess when making your claim. And this accidental typo just happens to cause the meaning of your posted Claim look exactly like a busted fake-claim.

No, not buying it.

No, it wasn't a typo. It was just a fuckup.

And I dint redirect SD to agar. I redirected him to AV.

You are correct, you did claim to redirect him to AV. But you’ve managed to dodge the question at hand.

Why is it believable that SD as Serial Killer ‘slipped your mind’ when you had the full extent of Night to make your initial selection (redirecting Iec to AGM) but when you are faced with a snap decision due to the PM by Charon you suddenly remember “Hey, I need to redirect SD”?

Because even though I still forgot that I thought he was an SK, he was a huge suspect of mine(although still ignored by most everyone else, so he still fit the scummy but largely ignored bill).

And why was AV your choice for your second target? Here’s the list of your Day 1 posts that question / respond to / mention AV at all –

….

Yeah that’s right … none.

I didn't think AGM was scum either(my first redirection, if you remember). My vigging philosophy, especially N1(I was treating my redirect like a vig) is to kill people who are hard to read and aren't really contributing.

Nice caps lock though. And that isn't useless selfmeta. That's me correcting you blatantly lying when you have personal experience that tells you I prefer being scum.

Um Whut? Your choice selections in Blackest Night (which I didn’t even remember you were in since you flaked / replaced IN THE SIGN-UP THREAD) means you enjoy being scum? That's hardly Meta evidence seing as you DIDN'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME.

No, but my color choices remained for my replacement(Sensfan). And you were also in A Comedy of Grins(marathon, but still), where I chose third party and claimed right at the beginning because I figured everyone knew I would pick either TP or scum, so I needed to at least try and establish that I wasn't harmful. Not to mention I've mentioned it several times ingame and postgame in games I've been in with you.

And I'm glad that you have a case that doesn't hinge on two scumteams....... did you forget to post that one in the thread?

See, here I know you aren’t paying attention. I’ve been clearly stating since Ooba started the “Two Teams” talk that I don’t know whether there are multiple scum teams or just one. Anyone reading the thread would know this.

Your post above is just looking for anything you think you can claim is scummy so as to wiggle out of the noose that is waiting for you today.

No, your case really does look like a piece of garbage once you take out the parts that assume there are two scumteams. And contradictions aren't reaching. You called me scum for assuming there were two scumteams and then made a case THAT ENTIRELY DEPENDED ON TWO SCUMTEAMS. HOW IS THAT NOT FUCKING SCUMMY. ANd yes, I'm aware that you've been saying that you don't know how many scumteams there are. WHICH MAKES IT EVEN WEIRDR THAT YOU MADE A CASE THAT HINGES ON THAT ASSUMPTION.

And yes, I brought up that you haven't died yet. You haven't. And that is definitely weird. I brought it up just now because up until now I hadn't taken a close look at you.

How do you know I wasn’t the target of the ‘missing’ kill last night? Hmmmm? We haven't had to have protection claims as of yet.

You very well could have. I don't see AGM protecting you though. That said, I keep having to remind myself that it's only D3. It feels like later in the game for some reason. This point probably isn't valid.

And answer me this – if I was scum with Chesskid and LC why would I hand a Daykill to Iec? Hmmmm?

Most likely, you can only give it to players not on your scumteam. Most scum inventors have that restriction(see Ythill's Gypsy Mafia or whatever, where the exact same thing happened, and then everybody treated Troll like confirmed town for it and they lost).

[MagnaofIllusion]

You're getting REALLY desperate, aren't you?

Nope. Not desperate at all. Just pointing out a possibility that came to mind when thinking about your butchered fake-claim.

Another HUGE contradiction........ You reject this, but assume that all fakeclaims align with the real role based on a sample size of 1.......

Are you trying to make me laugh?

Ooba’s speculation is just that .. speculation. Nothing inherently wrong at all about not relying on those speculated assumptions when looking for scum.

On the other hand we have evidence that scum fake-claims in the game match thematically with their real claims (Dekes claiming Apollo the Sun God when he was Ra the Sun God). Your assertion that the sample size is 1 is also incorrect. AV claimed a protection role with his fake-claim and flipped Bastet, Egyptian Goddess of PROTECTION and Cats.

Are you arguing that the Mod didn’t give fake-claims that thematically matched their real roles?

Where's the so called contradiction?

You don't think it's possible that I looked at my role PM, then looked back, and in trying to paraphrase, I accidentally forget four fucking letters?

No, it wasn't a typo. It was just a fuckup.

Nope. I don’t buy it.

Because even though I still forgot that I thought he was an SK, he was a huge suspect of mine(although still ignored by most everyone else, so he still fit the scummy but largely ignored bill).

You during Night 1 suddenly forgot you thought he was a Serial Killer even though that was pretty much what you made most of your Day 1 posts about?

Yeah, still not buying it.

I didn't think AGM was scum either(my first redirection, if you remember). My vigging philosophy, especially N1(I was treating my redirect like a vig) is to kill people who are hard to read and aren't really contributing.

1. That’s the stupidest Vig philosophy ever. Works great for a Cop philosophy. For a Vig philosophy? FAIL.
2. Why was I, who you have multiple time said am very difficult to read, never been the target of your redirection?

No, your case really does look like a piece of garbage once you take out the parts that assume there are two scumteams. And contradictions aren't reaching. You called me scum for assuming there were two scumteams and then made a case THAT ENTIRELY DEPENDED ON TWO SCUMTEAMS. HOW IS THAT NOT FUCKING SCUMMY. ANd yes, I'm aware that you've been saying that you don't know how many scumteams there are. WHICH MAKES IT EVEN WEIRDR THAT YOU MADE A CASE THAT HINGES ON THAT ASSUMPTION.

None of your scummy play depends on Two scum-teams. Sorry to break that to you. Let’s examine –

1. Scummy Night action choices? Doesn’t require Two scum-teams.
2. Execution ability that conflicts with a claimed Execution ability from a Confirmed Town player? Doesn’t require Two scum-teams.
3. White-knighting Dekes? Doesn’t require two scum-teams. You certainly pushed for Gemini to be Bolted over him and then came back with the WIFOM excuse as to ‘Why would I as scum do that?”
4. Botched fake-claim? Doesn’t require two scum-teams.

That’s just off the top of my head. None of which require a scum team. I notice you don’t give reasons why it is a piece of garbage. You just throw rhetoric in some desperate attempt to save yourself from the noose.

You very well could have. I don't see AGM protecting you though. That said, I keep having to remind myself that it's only D3. It feels like later in the game for some reason. This point probably isn't valid.

So you don’t see AGM as possibly protecting me N3 even though he already said he did N1? Yeah, you aren’t thinking things through.

Most likely, you can only give it to players not on your scumteam. Most scum inventors have that restriction(see Ythill's Gypsy Mafia or whatever, where the exact same thing happened, and then everybody treated Troll like confirmed town for it and they lost).

Then why would I bother to give Not-Mafia-with-Me a Daykill? Give me the scum motivation for that that doesn’t involve referencing a game that has no relation (via Mod) to this one?

[MagnaofIllusion]

I'm going to continue grinding Gandalf's posts into scummy, scummy dust until 1 of the 3 following things happens -

1. The last three votes necessary to lynch him appear.
2. The day ends.
3. Someone provides irrefutable evidence that someone else is scum.

[ooba]

I'm going to continue grinding Gandalf's posts into scummy, scummy dust until 1 of the 3 following things happens -

1. The last three votes necessary to lynch him appear.
2. The day ends.
3. Someone provides irrefutable evidence that someone else is scum.

I do not oppose this lynch; but I would like to see Nacho really answer that question of mine before the day ends - Agar didn't do anything D2 and I really can't let a slot get away with not saying anything for two days - and plus did I mention Hades knowing Poseidon is town?

[ooba]

<setup-ramblings>
- Also,

I would like to add that Thor had a redirect ability in oGaM

- Checked, apparently he stopped people from being redirecrted
- One of the reasons the Chess-AGM-Agar scum team made sense was because if there are two scum teams, most mods prefer to use symmetry i.e trying to balance them out in numbers and power .. Which is why I preferred 3-3 over any other combination
-- Since mothrax claimed RB and AV a doc, it seemed to fit powerwise exactly with chess+AGM
-- On the other hand, I see one team having a redirecter and one team a roleblocker like we did in Star Wars Mafia
-- "Baldur, the Invulnerable" (again from oGaM) could be one-shot bulletproof to compensate for the Doc power in egyptians

<paranoid>
-- The fact that lightning was involved in the item given to Iece made me think it might be the work of Thor, but it is clear it is a "Bolt" .. And I don't think Thor can give his lightning powers to others .. So Iece and Magna have to be scum together with Iece being Thor with a daykill for all this to work out .. That's quite a long-shot and I'd rather trust my reads for now ..
</paranoid>

</setup-ramblings>

But all this conflicts with my town read on Gandalf - ya, I know I can be wrong but I was sure of it .. Need to give this another re-read to see if I can spot possible partners ..

[gandalf5166]

Well, the first half of your post is just you being stubborn and there's not much I can do about that. As for the last parts:

I haven't redirected to you because you ARE CONTRIBUTING. The second part is just as important as the first. And actually, that would be a horrible Cop philosophy, and you saying it would be a good one contradicts YET AGAIN with you earlier in the game saying that you should cop people who are going to be a powerful force for town.

1. Scummy Night action choices? Doesn’t require Two scum-teams.
2. Execution ability that conflicts with a claimed Execution ability from a Confirmed Town player? Doesn’t require Two scum-teams.
3. White-knighting Dekes? Doesn’t require two scum-teams. You certainly pushed for Gemini to be Bolted over him and then came back with the WIFOM excuse as to ‘Why would I as scum do that?”
4. Botched fake-claim? Doesn’t require two scum-teams.

1. Not valid.
2. There's still no reason to trust practically confirmed scum over me(nobody's yet to come up with an even halfway decent reason why the hell Axel would have turned up dead). And even if there were, I don't see how his and my abilities contradict. SD and chess have similar roles, only *GASP* SD's is stronger.
3. No really, WHY ON EARTH as scum would I do that?
4. Forgetting four letters is hardly "botched".

Yes, that's a piece of garbage. I don't bother explaining why because it's practically self-explanatory.

Iec was a good target for town-you to grant a daykill, and he wasn't likely to kill you after you gave him one. Presumably, he also didn't suspect your scumbuddies. Essentially, it's a free kill, with the risk that he'll shoot one of your buddies(which I would assume was insignificant, or you wouldn't have given it to him).

Oh, and re: 3. I already did that.

MoI is NOT playing like town MoI, btw. He's getting far too irritated.

PEDIT: Please don't confirm Magna as town off the random assumption that they must be Norse...............