Fall of the Matrix: Game Over!

[Toon Fighter]

First of all, UNVOTE: . My vote is useless where it is right now, and that was a dumb vote anyway. Kublai Khan is posting more, but I still believe he could be more active and/or try to bring new stuff to the game. So far, he has repeated other players and commented on some thing others said. He is getting better, and I am gonna give him the benefit for now.

But one player whose game I am not appreciating is ABR. Look how active, defensive and aggressive he turned yesterday after he had a couple of votes on him. That seems like some scum cracking under pressure. He didn't do much so far in this game, as well, and had useless votes throughout D1. He recently voted IS without any real justification, and it seems to me that HIS defence of Surye yesterday was for town points, not other players defence of Vez.

Also, the RC wagon is horrid. He may have been lacking in the posting department recently, but that sudden wagon reeks of opportunism and scumminess. Also, the players joining that new wagon are (except from me) the same who joined Furc's yesterday. I know this may sound hypocrite, but I believe that Sens and Poro (and Brian) could be in the same scum team, and trying to bandwaggon another (town) player that is lurking and not posting much (albeit Furc and RC were lurking for different reasons) and getting a policy/quicklynch to harm town. I still maintain that Furc may be scum, but since that trio is now together on a different player, I find that unlikely.

[Toon Fighter]

Oh, I forgot,

vote: ABR

[HezLucky]

Yeah, at least Toon Fighter is giving me something to go on for later analysis.

Vote: SensFan

[Porochaz]

Hi guys, Im sorry I havent posted in the last couple of days. I have had a pretty rough week combined with a friends 30th. Ill get to it once Ive slept.

[DeathNote]

Game is lacking

[Kublai Khan]

Ugh. Still trying to fully wrap my head around this game.. Playerlist is just too damn full of really good and/or verbose players. A lot to digest.

Coincidentally, I'm heart-ing Cognito Ergo Sum so much right now. So sublimely succinct.

Because enough people have chimed in, I got a Cult Recruiter result on Kison. So yeah...

Awesome. Any of you fuckers want to claim having sent this in?

I'm not hearing a denial...

ugh, fine. You're off the suspicious list for now. Although I still really dislike the way you're staying away from hot topics and focusing on small cases that have slim chance of gaining momentum.

I told you time and time again I had a meta on Surye that everyone else didn't. Nobody listened. AGar "ABR AND SURYE ARE SCUM PARTNERS" no you fool we're not.

The only sensible players here are Yosarian and MBL. I also very much trust KK's skill in hunting scum, but he put Surye at L-1, what gives KK?

I think I explained it fairly well when I voted for Surye. I didn't have the strongest scum-read on Surye, but it was stronger than Medicated Lain or Furcolow. I generally trust your skill as well and I was asking you to convince me that Surye wasn't scum, but you never answered.

Vote: Toon Fighter

[Kison]

Kublai, I just reread all your posts since you replaced in. Your vote on Toon Fighter is just as sleazy as, if not more so than, Primate's vote on GummyBear. You have never once mentioned him, even in your last post.

[HezLucky]

Then what do you think is a better thing to do? (I

may

take it under consideration because i'm only on page 2 ;-; But another thing is I don't like to just start without really commenting on most that has happened)

Ignore him. A PBPA provides an idea of your suspicions, which is more than useful (for us and for you).

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote Count #15:

Have you ever had a dream, Neo, that you were so sure was real? What if you were unable to wake from that dream? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world? - Morpheus

Toon Fighter (3) - (LlamaFluff, Cogito Ergo Sum, Kublai Khan)
ReaperCharlie (3) - (BrianMcQueso, SensFan, Porochaz)
Albert B. Rampage (3) - (Zindaras, Medicated Lain, Toon Fighter)

SensFan (2) - (ReaperCharlie, HezLucky)
Ranmaru (2) - (AGar, Primate)
Porochaz (1) - (MrBuddyLee)
Kison (1) - (Yosarian2)
HezLucky (1) - (Furcolow)
Internet Stranger (1)- (Albert B. Rampage)
Primate (1) - (Kison)

With 21 alive, it takes 12 to lynch.

Furcolow, Internet Stranger, and BrianMcQueso have been prodded.

Cult recruiter seems too dramatic a role to get in this fashion for me to treat llamafluffs result that seriously, and earlier in the game mos as mod derided someone for the idea that he might put cults in the game so I don’t really give too much credence to the idea that kison is actually a cult recruiter. It’s probably some kind of scum message sender who overplayed his hand or similar.

You might want to actually click this link...

Does anybody know MoS's stance on cults? Agent Smith comes to mind in this game...

Poor Yosarian2 and lucky MrBuddyLee know my stance on cults.

Gleeman = Macros + MoS. I will neither confirm nor deny the existence of a cult, obviously, but my stance on the potential existence of cults in games is public knowledge.

[Ranmaru]

Then what do you think is a better thing to do? (I

may

take it under consideration because i'm only on page 2 ;-; But another thing is I don't like to just start without really commenting on most that has happened)

Ignore him. A PBPA provides an idea of your suspicions, which is more than useful (for us and for you).

Thank you, that helps.

[SensFan]

Cult recruiter seems too dramatic a role to get in this fashion for me to treat llamafluffs result that seriously, and earlier in the game mos as mod derided someone for the idea that he might put cults in the game so I don’t really give too much credence to the idea that kison is actually a cult recruiter. It’s probably some kind of scum message sender who overplayed his hand or similar.

Got to be honest I’ve never really liked bandwagon anaysis before a few people turn up dead and you can analyse whether scum were likely to join in groups. I’m increasingly not a fan of “one-of” arguments generally.

@Sens: Why’d you vote Llamafluff?

Vote GummyBear

I’ll review and maybe move that vote tonight, but I don’t vote enough so best try and break out of a bad habit.

On my phone for the weekend, so can't properly explain as I would want to. Will give a more thorough explanation on Monday, but for now I'll just say that it was for his way of going about evaluating cases/wagons on D1.

Alright, here's the full version. For the tl;dr people among you, just refer to the above quote and pretend I didn't expand on it.

---

That said I really am not loving a Furc lynch, the wagon on him is all sorts of twitchy. I mean its like leaning scum read, leaning scum read, leaning scum read, neutral, scum read, leaning scum... I would be willing to call ONE person on that wagon town right now. No one else is past neutral.

The wagon on him is just scum read after scum read, would be happy just nuking that entire wagon at this point. I mean you have one sorta town read in AGar, and then the closest anyone else comes is really slight scum read.

Because everyone on the Surye wagon is a decent strength town read and at worst neutral/lean town to the point where I would bet big that no more than one of those five are scum, and be 50/50 on all town. Based on that alone its reason to look at a person again.

I mean, I still like who composes the Surye wagon, but I really dont like the basis of it too that much of an extent, yet the Furc one is far worse in living members over/under is at 70% of scum, and the basis is so much worse.

I may have missed another similar such statement of his in my skimming of his iso, but 4 is plenty to make my point. As Yos has alluded to earlier, Scum lynchrate in D1 of games is abysmally bad, since D1 is the point in the game when information is lowest and so Scum manipulation potential is highest. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense to base your reads of players during D1 on your reads of the players who have a scumread on the player in question. That may be a little confusing, but it's basically saying that doing what LF did for most of D1 is terrible scumhunting; since the reads of each player are pretty bad during D1, it must therefore be even worse to base your read of X off of your reads of A,B,C who each have a scumread on X.
Conviniently enough for Llama, though, not only is it poor Town play to play like that, but it also makes for very good Scum play. Since he commented only indirectly on the main wagons, he didn't 'need' to give a read of the wagon'd player to give his support (or lack thereof) to the wagon, and so no matter what happens, he can't be accused of buddying/bussing/framing/defending the lynched player once their role becomes public. It even goes one step further than that: if he gets heat for his stance on any wagon that transpired, it lets him easily deflect it with "But my stance was based on the alignments of A, B, C; we need to lynch them now."

Is it a failproof case? Hardly; in fact I've already removed my vote from him. At the time, though, I considered it a better lead to go off of than anything else I noticed from D1, and I still think it's worth noting.

[SensFan]

Then what do you think is a better thing to do? (I

may

take it under consideration because i'm only on page 2 ;-; But another thing is I don't like to just start without really commenting on most that has happened)

Ignore him. A PBPA provides an idea of your suspicions, which is more than useful (for us and for you).

Thank you, that helps.

Yeah, no. Mark me down as someone else who won't read a PBPA. It's useless and scummy, all at the same time.

[SensFan]

Ugh. This turned out longer than I had hoped; my apologies. For the tl;dr among you:

tl;dr: Hez selectively chooses single isolated posts of mine to accuse me of active lurking while ignoring my other posts, calls me Scum for disagreeing with him, calls me Scum for voting someone based on their active lurking, and then votes me for active lurking.

- SensFan's posts like #85 are doing nothing but clarifying theory, as opposed to trying to actively scumhunt.

Post 85. Yes, clearly it is OH SO SCUMMY to, when someone misunderstands my reasons for voting someone, stop scumhunting for a whole post while I clarify myself.

I follow Yos2's meta line of reasoning in that anyone who shares similar suspects to me is thinking about the game from
the same perspective that I am. He called SensFan, just like I did above upon the reread. Similar to Yos's theory, scumread on McQueso for
questioning the SensFan vote. Not thinking about the game from a townie perspective. So is Zindaras #122 (and putting Llama as town? ugh).

BZZT. "X is Town because he agrees with my reads; Y and Z are Scum because they disagree with me" is so wrong I'm probably wasting my time by bothering to include it here.

- SensFan #294. He's STILL not scumhunting. When does he plan on starting?

Post 294. This is the second time in the same post where you've taken a post of mine building on/clarifying my previous stance(s) (stances you've ignored completely in your IIoA PBPA) and then called me scummy for only clarifying things and not doing anything else.

Just curious. How do you accuse me both of being scummy for not scumhunting, and then also call me scummy for being the first person on both of the major wagons?

Those things are not mutually exclusive. Being on wagons is not scumhunting.

I didn't give you any points for that though.

I'm pretty sure those things

are

mutually exclusive, actually. I clearly wasn't wagon-jumping, so unless you think I was literally randomly voting both times (as in rolling a die and voting solely based on that), which its pretty clear I wasn't, then I must have been looking at who I think the lynch is that best benefits the Town and voting based on that.

SensFan #655 - still active lurking and pretending like he's scumhunting.

Post 655. 21 posts of mine in between this one and the last one you selectively chose to call me an active lurker for. Don't worry, you didn't miss much in that span. Oh, except for the part where Poro and I both simultaneously completely create the case on Furc and start the wagon on him.

Also a shameless post to avoid prod -- will resume read soon.

Though offhand Toon Fighter's last post looks awful and SensFan looks just as bad for not calling him on it (despite being the very next post)

Is this the part where I say you've done nothing all game but active lurk, based on this post alone? Or do I need to also only quote this post of yours and make it look like it's representative of all of your posts?
Sarcasm aside, here's more of the godawful "X is Scum for disagreeing with me" logic.

Not going to bother anymore with explaining slight differences in points. It will come down to "I like this person's
reads" and "this person isn't even trying" with the +1/-1's, so only going to point out interesting things.

This becomes relevant in a minute.

(FYI SensFan #818 - if Surye flipped scum, this would heavily implicate you)

Post 818. As mentioned before, this is complete garbage. "Even though X has already flipped Town, I'll go out of my way now to mention that it would make you look really bad if X had flipped Scum instead". What the fuck? This is so dumb I don't even want to waste my time pointing out how dumb it is. Oh, and by the way, if vez flipped "HezLucky Cult Recruit", it would heavily implicate you. Just FYI.

As mentioned earlier, SensFan really should've voted for TF's crap #927. He didn't. I'm happy with a lynch on either
one of these two.

More of the "He's Scum for disagreeing with me" logic that we all love so much.

I'm not saying the ReaperCharlie wagon is inherently bad, as he might be scum (I don't know because he WON'T POST
ANYTHING) but the people on that wagon have no busiuenss being on that wagon. SensFan as #2 and Porochaz as #3 reek
of scum. How can you guys not have better targets at this point in the game?

Let's see, I'll start off by pointing out that active lurking is one of the more reliable scumtells, and so it's flawed to imply that it's a weak tell and that I should have something stronger. But I think more important here is that Hez has been calling me Scum all game long (and later put her vote on me) when the

ONLY

two points she's ever raised against me are that I'm active lurking and that I disagree with her. Oops.

^^^ Blatant misrepresentation of the point. You did not receive any points for the FYI. It was simply a thought that had crossed my mind.

*points to above "I'm not going to bother explaining what people get points for anymore" quote*

You STILL have not done any scumhunting whatsoever. I would like to see where this contradiction of yours occurs.

Part A) If you bothered to read any of my posts, you'd see the scumhunting for yourself. Part B) As earlier, you called me Scum earlier for both active lurking and being the leading vote on both of the major wagons of the time. That literally does not compute.

Why not do it now? My main argument against you is that you post nothing but fluff, are actively lurking and seem to refuse to engage in any kind of scumhunting whatsoever, combined with your questionable votes.

Again, if you bothered to read my posts, you'd see that in the 12 hours previous to this post, I had twice mentioned my lack of computer for the weekend.

The only way I could really see you "countering" my argument is by actual scumhunting, in which case I look forward to it.

Sorry to not point this out a couple days ago, but you can always just click "Display posts by user: SensFan" to see that.

[Porochaz]

Sorry going to be V/LA probs for the next few days, grad dinner tonight then moving out. I will try and fit a post in as I promised one but it will be difficult.

[Furcolow]

im back on page 40, will catch up tonight, i just woke up and am having real life issues from last night

[Ranmaru]

I should be done with my catch up in the next two days. I was busy.

I'm going to experiment with it this time around. Half Pbpa, half just quoting a few things I may feel is important to bring up again. Either way, I want to be able to comment on past events as if I was there when it happened. I feel more accomplished that way, and I don't feel cheap. Thank you for being patient guys.

[Yosarian2]

Ugh. Still trying to fully wrap my head around this game.. Playerlist is just too damn full of really good and/or verbose players. A lot to digest.

Coincidentally, I'm heart-ing Cognito Ergo Sum so much right now. So sublimely succinct.

Because enough people have chimed in, I got a Cult Recruiter result on Kison. So yeah...

Awesome. Any of you fuckers want to claim having sent this in?

I'm not hearing a denial...

ugh, fine. You're off the suspicious list for now. Although I still really dislike the way you're staying away from hot topics and focusing on small cases that have slim chance of gaining momentum.

Wait...you're talking Kison off the suspect list *BECAUSE* of the cult recruiter thing?

It probably means nothing, but how does it make Kison *LESS* suspicious? Even if it's a scum messanger, it's completly a WIFOM thing about how they would try to use it to mess with us. Something as overkill-silly as "cult recruiter" could very well be a "Look, I'm trying to frame person X, he MUST be town!" thing to clear one of their own. Or not. It basically doesn't mean anything either way.

[Medicated Lain]

I can't deny it's just a bit nice not having a heap load to catch up on at least once when I don't have time to post... but wow this game has lost its momentum. So, as promised, the MBL post.. with a bit more ABR thrown in.
First, addressed to thee:

@MedicatedLain, please explain your evolution of thought on AGar.

Agar's replacement hasn't shown up yet, so not much has changed. I still don't think the vote/suspicion style was very protown yesterday, but since Vez flipped town, it removes any idea that they were scum buddies. It could still be possible that AGar was figuring chances were high that Vez was telling the truth, and looking for something to cling to later... but somehow that doesn't seem likely with the very high level of defense for just a townie. That's a trend we certainly see with Albert right now, as Zinder pointed out. Seriously folk, have you actually looked at Albert's posts? That's our #1 chance at scum right now.

Question for furc folk: So suddenly it's ok to forget all about yesterday? No one even mentions him at all anymore. He had scummy patterns, and I think there's a possibility that he could be scum with ABR. Yet no one on the furc wagon comments on this at all? Something's not right there.


AAAhhhhh back to the MBL case. Looking through the posts, I still don't like it.

Youre likely to find a bunch of scum in that list, just sayin'

I agree. Which would you say are the worst votes in that list? Let's lynch those voters.

That's the only post that stands out as just complete scum. Just agree and decide to lynch? Great policy... That's the thing though, there's a very great lacking of actual content, just constant interrogation, with very little ideas thrown in at all. There have been more ideas today, but the general trend is, keep actually posting, but don't give any ideas, just ask questions. When voting, there was a tendency not to really go into detail why votes were being placed, often times just a comment. Trying to stay out of the spotlight while keeping the post count up?

[SensFan]

Question for furc folk: So suddenly it's ok to forget all about yesterday? No one even mentions him at all anymore. He had scummy patterns, and I think there's a possibility that he could be scum with ABR. Yet no one on the furc wagon comments on this at all? Something's not right there.

Furc was very likely active lurking, until someone called him on it.
RC has admitted to continued active lurking, even after being called on it.

Thus, for the time being, RC is higher on my priority list.

[BrianMcQueso]

McQueso #805 - I would like to see McQueso push someone's lynch hard. The identity of that person, I feel, would give us a lot of info regarding McQueso's alignment (I'm having a tough read here

I was pretty adamant about lynching Furcolow yesterday. He has since stepped up the quality of his posting (unlike ReaperCharlie, who has done nothing of the sort). Also, early Day 1, I was very skeptical of AGar's defense of vezok. If you want to see what it looks like when I'm trying to push a lynch, there they are.

BrianMcQueso #832 - you obviously have not read my posts. I have been heavily opposed to the Furc wagon all of yesterday. I am in no way "lynchable" for changing my vote to Surye. Though I'm sure upon reread you found that out, this still merits scumpoints on your part. (at least Zindaras #842 caught onto this - case on Agar is noted!)

My post was addressing people switching votes to Surye just so that someone would be lynched. There are other legitimate reasons to vote Surye, which is something that I acknowledged. If you switched to Surye for reasons other than "we need to lynch someone today", you're cool in my book.

[Internet Stranger]

Prod post. Damn that was a wild weekend. Im still here, skimming. I will find a scum to lynch soon enough.

[BrianMcQueso]

Question for furc folk: So suddenly it's ok to forget all about yesterday? No one even mentions him at all anymore. He had scummy patterns, and I think there's a possibility that he could be scum with ABR. Yet no one on the furc wagon comments on this at all? Something's not right there.

Furc was very likely active lurking, until someone called him on it.
RC has admitted to continued active lurking, even after being called on it.

This pretty much sums up my attitude towards Furcolow. The self-vote from yesterday still leaves a bad taste in my mouth, but he is the lesser of two evils at this point since he seems to be contributing, unlike ReaperCharlie who continues to provide no information to get a read on.

I straight up do not understand the votes on Toon Fighter. The votes on him are from Cogito (who provided no reason for his vote), Kublai Khan (who provided no reason for his vote), and LlamaFluff (who provided no reason for his vote but then later unvoted and it wasn't reflected in the vote count I think). Three votes, no explanations. How does that even happen?

Albert B. Rampage's attitude disgusts me, but I don't think he's scum at this point.

SensFan's case against HezLucky (post #1087) is an interesting one, and fairly convincing. I'd very much like a response from Hez.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nobody Special replaces AGar.

Additionally, due to his own limited activity problems, I am allowing ReaperCharlie to add Battousai as his hydra partner. This will be updated in the player list when they inform me of the account name for their hydra.

[HezLucky]

SensFan's case against HezLucky (post #1087) is an interesting one, and fairly convincing. I'd very much like a response from Hez.

It is!? I thought it was complete garbage. Alright, response to come very soon (likely after game 1 of NBA Finals)

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

NBA sucks.