Large Normal 132: Desert Mafia (Over!)

[Scott Brosius]

First of, basic protocal states that I should alert you that this account is being used as a hydra, heads will be revealed later. Unfortunatly I haven't had a chance to have a real discussion with Head one about the game yet hopefully I can catch him online very soon.

With the number of night-kills being so low it's safe to assume that there's just one scum-team and likely no serial killer, as for what delayed vig is I would tend to agree with Mastin, the kill will likely occur in twilight today.

Gorilla is indeed town, so is Deity however claiming then wasn't a good idea. Jailkeeper is a strong role late game, early game it's slightly useless, especially out in the open. I'm attempting to process Mastins posts as I'm yet to attain a read on him.

- Head 2

There is no pro-town reason to not reveal the heads of the hydra.

Vote: Skyquiem

[Scott Brosius]

Headclaiming is definitely protown. You are not claiming heads. Therefore not protown.

Hiding information can only benefit scum.

[Scott Brosius]

FAULTY LOGIC ALERT @ hiraki

I didn't say that. Releasing information benefits all. However, there are more town than scum, therefore will help inform more town. Hiding information can only benefit scum due to a less informed town

We are going to make better decisions knowing what accounts we are playing with. It's not a validation for a vote in your perspective but in a game with 30something posts and probably half by mastin, it's the most suspicious thing I have seen. I agree that instantly claiming JK is not protown either, but lynching a claimed JK today is not good strategy. I highly doubt that scum would come out and claim that immediately.

[Scott Brosius]

Also, I don't really care what you possibly WOULD have done if you wanted to hide information. The fact is you are.

[Scott Brosius]

You talk in a lot of "would" scenarios which is fruitless. Anyway this argument is turning to be not productive. My vote stays until the heads are revealed.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott-1

I've seen this before, a couple of times; where someone asks the hydra to 'headclaim' on grounds that hiding said information is Anti-Town.

I don't think I need to state that each of those times, said person wanting said information was scum.

So Scott, are you Scum?

Can you reference these games?

Silver's hesitation to vote is weird and scummy.

[Scott Brosius]

Scott, please answer this question: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 3#p3080683

Thank you.

Releasing information benefits all. However, there are more town than scum, therefore will help inform more town. Hiding information can only benefit scum due to a less informed town

[Scott Brosius]

Scott, I will allow head one to answer your question regarding references to games in which scum pushed on a secret hydra however I still would like for you to answer why you never once thought to ask us our reasoning for not revealing our heads.

Mastin, the person that posted the long wall and the smiley is head one, that's his only post thus far and from previous knowledge that's not how he generally posts. Can you explain your newb-town read on Silver, I'm having trouble seeing it.

Ranmaru, have you ever been scum in a completed forum mafia game, either here or at an alternate site? If so can you provide the link to the game.

- Head Two.

I do not see a pro-town reason for not revealing your heads. Therefore asking would be futile. Why can't you reference the games? You were the one who brought it up.

I care about this game, I just don't feel like voting. You misunderstand me. I suggest you look for scum elsewhere.

Fine.

Unvote
Vote Silver1337

Explain how lurking is your style of play to me.

Why would you move your vote off of him because he asked? At least you are pretty much conftown.

Ranmaru is looking town to me, I think his posts have more content than people are giving credit for. Gorilla looks scummy after that exchange.

[Scott Brosius]

He's also almost 100% town.

[Scott Brosius]

@Scott

>.<

I could only find the one that I played in, the other that I was watching is being a bitch to find within the mass of bookmarks that I have attained over the years.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 46&start=0

Have at it- you only need to look through day 1. I believe, if memory serves, that the Traitor made a big fuss about it. I seem to remember a cult doing so as well.

Anyways- migraine central after that, but brb with more.

- Head 1

Alright, one game doesn't really impress or serve as any sort of pattern. But since one head is already out there, my pressure is no longer necessary.

I don't seem scum getting mad 100 posts in saying they are VT. It's terrible and quite anti-town but I really doubt it's scum. Going voting my new lead scum read.

Unvote
Vote: Gorilla

[Scott Brosius]

With Regfan basically putting himself on the line for gorilla, I will trust it for now.

Unvote

I have played with Emp a few times before if I recall correctly.

[Scott Brosius]

Winger's iso is indeed scummy. Nothing novel and nothing of substance.

I still think Ranmaru is leaning town.

Vote: winger

[Scott Brosius]

Mana's explanation about Sky and Scott~
I voted Sky based on gut. In his first post, he mentioned that Heads 1 and 2 hadn't had a real discussion yet with each other on the first page. I'm wondering then what there could have been discussed? The players? The one kill? The flip itself? Kabuto's claim? Revealing heads or not? The one kill, the flip, the claim and the revealment of heads were mentioned in that post, so it striked me as off. Now that I'm finally revealing what made my gut active, what did you want to have a discussion about with your other head?

I prefer not to give reasons during the RVS, so that I can look at reactions. This time, it was Scott who failed. There were players who mentioned that they didn't like that I gave no reason, but Scott wasn't one of them. While it was Scott who mentioned that it was scummy to keep information hidden. Even after I mentioned vaguely that I had a new suspect, he never asked whom and why.

Enjoy~

It was scummy to keep information hidden in that circumstance. Blatantly being combative about hiding one's identity is scummy, especially when that person goes on to reference how meta is helpful. Your attempt to make a point against me is a pretty big stretch.

I GUESS WE SHOULD ALL MASSCLAIM BECAUSE NO HIDDEN INFO IS GOOD. That's not what I was saying. I'm not saying that all hidden information is scummy. You took this and ran with it.

Ran has been prodding discussion and he looks like flailing newbtown more than scum to me.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm not going to answer for everything he did. As a whole he reads as newbtown especially with the FOSs everywhere.

I realize that newbie =/= scum immunity.

[Scott Brosius]

Winger's iso is indeed scummy. Nothing novel and nothing of substance.

This statement is not logically consistent.

The lack of anything "novel" or "of substance" is not an operational definition of "scummy". Someone being scummy implies there are things in their iso that are proactively scummy, or that stand out as scummy. My iso having "nothing" in it does not qualify as scummy.

In your eyes maybe, but just going with the flow and not providing anything novel is still scummy to me.

____________________________________________________________

Vote Count

• Ranmaru: 5 (RisingPhoenix, Skyquiem, Slaxx, Mana_Ku, inHimshallibe) L-3
  
  Reck: 2 (Kublai Khan, Scott Brosius) L-6
  Skyquiem: 2 (Ranmaru) L-6
  Kublai Kahn: 2 (mastin2,) L-7
  Scott Brosius: 1 (DeityKabuto) L-7
  RisingPhoenix: 2 (Reck, Hiraki) L-6
  
  
  Not Voting: 2 (Silver1337) L-7

With 14 players, it takes

8

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-06-17 18:39:00)

[Scott Brosius]

Khan is definitely scum after that late exchange end of D1.

Vote: KK

what sky said Slaxx, what sky said.

I'm a scum RB.

@Ranmaru: After the game, after the game.
@Reck: I'm not QQing, but there's a difference between good town play and your common TUNNELOFDOOMBSSSSSSS (trademark) getting followers. <<
Oh and for the record, the mason claim WAS very very fake.
You wouldnt blink at a mason iof yours being close to lynch.

@Slaxx: You were voting with me for 95% of the day. that hardly qualifies as GOOD.

This post to me almost confirms Reck, Slaxx and Ran (obv) as town. Major town points to Sky as well.

[Scott Brosius]

There's no need to reveal who you target ahead of time, gives scum more information. There is an obvious pool of players to choose from.

[Scott Brosius]

My guess is one of Mastin/KK is scum. 99% Khanscum. Thus I think Mastin is town.

Silver reads as VI more than scum.

I still say Reck and Slaxx are essentially conftown due to RP and Sky is certainly looking town.

I don't really have an opinion on inhim.

[Scott Brosius]

Scott, if 10 was for sure scum and 1 was for sure town what would you rate the following people: inHimshallibe, DeityKabuto, gorilla, Hiraki, Mana_Ku

No real opinion on inhim. DK is obvtown.

Gorilla hasn't impressed me but it seems that the general consensus is that he is town. I don't really understand this.

Hiraki looks like misled tunneling town.

Mana_ku slot is another suspect of mine with the general lack of content from that slot, and essentially process of elimination. Therefore

5,1,7,3,8

[Scott Brosius]

I'm back will read.

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: KK

Let's not let him slip through again.

[Scott Brosius]

It's confusing if mastin was the NK target, but given that I am quite sure that Khan is scum and one of mastin/Khan is scum, it's wifomy to me anyway. I would rather lynch Khan today.

Slaxx is still town to me based off of RP's reaction/flameout at the end of D1.

[Scott Brosius]

I cannot see scum randomly claiming VT D1 though. Silver has been useless but I do not think he's scum.

Who is scummy then Silver? You cannot just say something like Hiraki's aggressiveness is getting to you. Does that mean he is scummy? Not scummy?

V/LA until Tuesday hopefully.

[Scott Brosius]

Vote: KK

I am a broken record. Let's finally lynch him.

Vote Count

• silver1337 - 1 (Hiraki)
  
  Kublai Khan - 4 (Reck, Pine, Slaxx, Scott) L-1
  
  

With 9 players, it takes

5

to lynch.

Deadline countdown timer:

(expired on 2011-07-09 00:00:00)

[Scott Brosius]

I am JOAT. I have three abilities, I have only used two. It does not make sense for me to use the third one until I claimed. That is all I will say about my last power.

I did nothing N0.

N1 I copped Sky and got an innocent result.

N2 I watched DK, nobody visited him.

I'm still torn on Silver. I highly doubt scum claims VT unprovoked D1. It just doesn't feel right.

Slaxx and Sky are 99.9% town. That leaves probably 2 scum in gorilla, Pine, Hiraki, silver. I need to reread these four.

Slaxx: I was never on the IHSB wagon. I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

[Scott Brosius]

hehehe

obvious comments

you mean you are scum :3

I DID SO GOOD

@Slaxx: You were voting with me for 95% of the day. that hardly qualifies as GOOD.

Also this exchange doesn't look fake.

My power is not going to be 100% confirmable but could be obvious. It will not clear anyone.

[Scott Brosius]

Meh, I thought it would be more effective hidden, but I suppose it adds enough night WIFOM to claim anyway.

Last power is commuter. PM says that I will be immune from kills the night I commute only, not any sorts of investigations.

I was going to use it tonight assuming scum would kill me to prevent any further information from leaking and them not knowing what power I had left and assumedly wasting a NK on me and failing. But as I mentioned, the NK wifom it adds for scum is beneficial as well. So I may/may not use it tonight.

[Scott Brosius]

I figured one of BG or JK was going to be killed. Rather than waste the watch on what I felt was a 50/50 shot, I figured one of them would die, and I could watch the living PR of those two the next night.

[Scott Brosius]

I'm not completely sold it's LYLO. It was a night start and since it's pretty apparent we have no third parties running around, 3 scum in (what essentially amounts to) 14 certainly isn't ridiculous although the last scum member would have to be pretty powerful given the amount of town power. Still, it is better to proceed as if it is LYLO.

Barring a GF type role, my innocent on Sky eliminates him. Hiraki is almost certainly town. So POE leads me to Pine and gorilla left. I too have not really understood the town read that seems to be the consensus on Pine. I need to look into it further. I'm not voting yet but my first inclination is that Pine is scum.

[Scott Brosius]

Pine's content can be best summed as flip flopping on Mastin/Khan on whoever was the popular wagon at the time. And not much else after Khan died.

[Scott Brosius]

I never flip-flopped on Khan/Mastin. I said one of them was scum, but I couldn't decide, and I consistently leaned toward Khan. Correctly.

I'm fairly positive of a Scott/Gorilla team. Scott especially because of his shady claims and behavior, but especially because of his recent "we may not be in LyLo, even though the numbers are likely". In my experience, that is a scumTELL. Town can't AFFORD to consider the possibility that we might not be in LyLo right now, on the odds that we are. It is 100% in scum's favor to seed the idea that we can afford another mislynch.

Gorilla's play reminds me an awful lot of 00s Band Mafia. I couldn't put my finger on it then, and I can't now, but I didn't see it coming then until it was too late.

I've had a few stupid-busy days of late, please bear with me. I'm leaning strongly towards a Scott lynch right now, but will withhold my vote because of LyLo etiquette.

First off "but I couldn't decide" is the definition of flip-flopping. Second you "consistently leaned toward Khan" yet hammered Mastin. Your votes have been as follows.

Mastin 6.17
Khan 6.18
Mastin 6.18 (2 hours later)
Khan 6.18 (8 hours later)
Then you hammer mastin a week later.
Then you are on Khan for his lynch the next day.

That is completely flip flopping.

Then you essentially vanish.

I'm proceeding as if it is LYLO. But I'm looking for the scummiest player. Not trying to see what 2 players fit together perfectly as scum.

[Scott Brosius]

I still don't understand why watching the claimed JK was bad. If I were scum, I would MUCH rather kill the player that has a chance to block kills in 2 fashions (blocking the killer or blocking the target) rather than the bodyguard who isn't that much of a threat to scum, because even if the kill is deflected onto him, at least someone still dies. Granted, I wasn't aware of the stellar play we were subsequently going to see from DK.

[Scott Brosius]

I still don't understand why they would shoot the BG first. I outlined why JK is clearly more of a threat.

[Scott Brosius]

Doesn't BG die in place of target? Anyway this discussion is useless. As I said before. I figured Ran and DK were obviously set up as the next 2 nights kills. Instead of wasting my shot on what I saw as a 50/50 chance, I figured I would wait until the next night and watch the living player of the 2 assuming the NK would go there (barring any other PR claims which we did not have).

Anyway, I am comfortable enough with my case on Pine to vote. The fact that there has been no content from him since Khan died, until now when some suspicion is being cast on him also makes me more confident in my vote.

Vote: Pine

Going through all of KK's posts there isn't too much of note. He basically calls all of us scummy besides Hiraki in an early post, then gets a town read on gorilla. After D1, he pretty much doesn't address any of us. There is some back and forth with Pine about mastin but nothing else.

[Scott Brosius]

Another point that it isn't LYLO...found this gem.

Spoiler: Cliff Notes for mastin2's tunnel

Scum-Khan is bussing one of his partners! Possibly both!

Notice he says both.

[Scott Brosius]

Well, at this point especially if there are 2 scum left, you are obvtown. Also we lose barring a Hiraki-Pine scumteam which makes no sense.

I'm still operating under the assumption especially based on Khan's comment that there is one assumedly very strong mafia member left based on the town power. I'm almost positive it is Pine which would explain why scum hasn't blitzed to hammer me.

[Scott Brosius]

I guess that doesn't answer your question. If there is a promise of lynching Pine (barring a town loss right now) tomorrow, I suppose I can slip in the noose.

[Scott Brosius]

I'll be expecting an apology.

[Scott Brosius]

You said you would apologize if the game was over .

We were pretty much screwed from the start.

[Scott Brosius]

Meh, with the night start I think it was fine. If we hadn't lost our only PR D1.....