Team Mafia: Pick Your Power (Game Over)

[Papa Zito]

1. Absolutely
2. This reads as "oh good I can change my reads"

I mean what made you feel the need to post that first bit.

[zoraster]

Day 2 Vote Count

Debonair Danny DiPietro ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

Faraday ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

Hoopla ( 3 ) Lady LambdaDelta, SpyreX, Kise,

(L - 3 )

Kise ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

Lady LambdaDelta ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

Papa Zito ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

PranaDevil ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

quadz08 ( 1 ) PranaDevil,

(L - 5 )

RegFan ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

SpyreX ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

Super Smash Bros. Fan ( 4 ) Faraday, quadz08, Hoopla, Papa Zito,

(L - 2 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

(L - 6 )

Not Voting ( 3 ) Debonair Danny DiPietro, Super Smash Bros. Fan, RegFan,
Total Votes ( 11 )

Deadline: June 2nd at 23:00 EDT
7 Days Banked
With 11 able to vote, 6 needed to lynch.

[Hoopla]

1. Absolutely
2. This reads as "oh good I can change my reads"

I mean what made you feel the need to post that first bit.

About LLD's credibility being reduced? Because it struck me as a weird interaction between the two, and given SpyreX is her main supporter, his perspective on the interactions seems worthwhile attaining.

[Faraday]

Regfan: So having lots of town reads = me more concerned about getting mislynches? I find that hard to reall buy as a genuine thought process. I don't think we've played before, but that seems a lazy analysis for someone who's using meta with LLD to take.

[Regfan]

Regfan: So having lots of town reads = me more concerned about getting mislynches? I find that hard to reall buy as a genuine thought process. I don't think we've played before, but that seems a lazy analysis for someone who's using meta with LLD to take.

1) If you'd read my posts properly you'd have noticed my suspicions of LLD are far more then meta.

2) You've read my thought process incorrectly. You admitt to having multiple, multiple town-reads however you haven't stood back and realized that the number of town-reads you have means that you probably have read someone incorrect, instead you seem happy to push your solo scum-read.

[Papa Zito]

Because it struck me as a weird interaction between the two

What's weird about it. It's goofy meta-based attacks and responses.

Do you put a lot of stock in meta?



P.S. This day really probably needs to end.

[Faraday]

2) You've read my thought process incorrectly. You admitt to having multiple, multiple town-reads however you haven't stood back and realized that the number of town-reads you have means that you probably have read someone incorrect, instead you seem happy to push your solo scum-read.

Of course there's 1 incorrect, numbers alone dictate that and there's ALWAYS 1 incorrect in my town reads. I'm not going to try and figure that out untill my scum reads are dead though.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

>_> can we skip the inevitable dance of 'replacement catches up, replacement is scum, we lynch him' and skip to step 3.

VOTE: Super Smash Bros Fan

Why yes, yes we can. It feels like we're just spinning our wheels right now and not making any actually progress.

[Papa Zito]

Regfan what do you think of The Plan.

Also Kise what are you doing.

[Regfan]

Of course there's 1 incorrect, numbers alone dictate that and there's ALWAYS 1 incorrect in my town reads. I'm not going to try and figure that out untill my scum reads are dead though.

If you take a look at Post #715 which you posted two days ago you said that a SSBF scumflip which you believe will occur would clear Spy, LLD, Kise and DDD however you haven't stated any issues with the plan of the vig shooting Spy or DDD if SSBF flips scum which you believe he would.

On top of that you also state in this post that you believe Hoopla/Slaxx are town leaving only Zito/Prana/SSBF however you haven't even attempted to attain a read on Prana or Zito behaviour wise. If you were to read them both behvaiour-wise and read them as town, wouldn't that disprove your SSBF scum-read? Or if you read them as scum wouldn't it solidify your scumr eadon SSBF? If so, why not read into them?

Regfan what do you think of The Plan.

I need more time to think over it as well as discuss it with my team however my early impression is that I don't have that many qualms with it.

[Faraday]

Of course there's 1 incorrect, numbers alone dictate that and there's ALWAYS 1 incorrect in my town reads. I'm not going to try and figure that out untill my scum reads are dead though.

If you take a look at Post #715 which you posted two days ago you said that a SSBF scumflip which you believe will occur would clear Spy, LLD, Kise and DDD however you haven't stated any issues with the plan of the vig shooting Spy or DDD if SSBF flips scum which you believe he would.

On top of that you also state in this post that you believe Hoopla/Slaxx are town leaving only Zito/Prana/SSBF however you haven't even attempted to attain a read on Prana or Zito behaviour wise. If you were to read them both behvaiour-wise and read them as town, wouldn't that disprove your SSBF scum-read? Or if you read them as scum wouldn't it solidify your scumr eadon SSBF? If so, why not read into them?

I thought it was fairly implicit I didn't read both as town in relation to SSBF. I mean I find prana's actions around the SSBF wagon to be fairly suspect. Zito is leaning scum due to POE anyway. My scum read on SSBF is 'rocksolid' there's no way it can get more solid barring a scum claim.

Uh what @ first paragraph. THE VIG ISN'T SHOOTING SPYREX OR DDD. Apparently the vig is shooting ME if SSBF flips scum which is fucking moonbeams in and of itself. I mean I've been the one to stay the course in this wagon. hey faraday you nailed scum. guess what you get fucking shot in the face. That's lovely.
I mean Spy and DDD are clear when SSBF shoots scum. What plan are you talking about and who proposed it? because I've not seen it in the thread.

[Regfan]

I thought it was fairly implicit I didn't read both as town in relation to SSBF. I mean I find prana's actions around the SSBF wagon to be fairly suspect. Zito is leaning scum due to POE anyway. My scum read on SSBF is 'rocksolid' there's no way it can get more solid barring a scum claim.

I don't understand the strength you have in this read, I understand how some of his actions come off as scummy and certaintly don't have any town-vibes from him however I don't see how ignoring all other possibilty because of your gut-read on him is beneficial.

Uh what @ first paragraph. THE VIG ISN'T SHOOTING SPYREX OR DDD. Apparently the vig is shooting ME if SSBF flips scum which is fucking moonbeams in and of itself. I mean I've been the one to stay the course in this wagon. hey faraday you nailed scum. guess what you get fucking shot in the face. That's lovely.
I mean Spy and DDD are clear when SSBF shoots scum. What plan are you talking about and who proposed it? because I've not seen it in the thread.

Wow. I've read the plan the opposite way around.

No. I don't agree with the plan then. Heck no. If SSBF flips town DDD and SpyreX are not good shots at all. If SSBF flips town either Faraday or LLD need rope.

[Hoopla]

Wow. I've read the plan the opposite way around.

No. I don't agree with the plan then. Heck no. If SSBF flips town DDD and SpyreX are not good shots at all. If SSBF flips town either Faraday or LLD need rope.

So, you think no scum in the 1's?

What do we do in the event of a SSBF scumflip? It clears SpyreX and DDD.

[Papa Zito]

No. I don't agree with the plan then. Heck no. If SSBF flips town DDD and SpyreX are not good shots at all. If SSBF flips town either Faraday or LLD need rope.

Bluh. Is this more space numbers.

[Regfan]

Not at all what I said. I don't believe DDD or SpyreX are scum, I've gone into why I don't believe scum would choose (1,1) as well as why I have town-reads on the both of them, if there's scum in the 1's it's SSBF otherwise I honestly believe there's no scum in them. Thinking about it a bit more I also don't see scum letting Quadz pick such a stupid and bizarre number as (8,13) meaning there's no way he's scum either.

I do very much see scum doubling up in the 6's though, so in the event of a SSBF scum-flip I think starting to deal with the 6's would be optimal, so I have no qualms with either Faraday or LLD being shot in that scenario.

In a SSBF town-flip things become much more difficult, although I see scum doubling up I see no way they would triple up or have two people at six and one person after that meaning Hooplas 9 makes her very unlikely to be scum with two of the 6's. This means, in the event of a SSBF town-flip, there's likely two scum in the 6's (LLD, Faraday, PZ) and one in the 2 or 3's (Kise, Prana).

[Hoopla]

So you think it's likelier that a scumteam deliberately sabotaged themself in the draft than you being wrong about one of Spy/DDD (if SSBF flips town)? I don't think Prana or Kise (in particular Kise), would consider doing such a thing. Most people would agree that if anyone doubled up it would be me or Spy. When designing this game with Spy, we both agreed that it was probably game over if scum risked 2/3 of their team on that strategy. It's like scum claiming masons together in a normal game. It's just too risky to work. And when you give the town 6-8 PR's for the price of doubling up, I can assure you anyone who thought about the consequences just a little bit, didn't double-up.

[Regfan]

So you think it's likelier that a scumteam deliberately sabotaged themself in the draft than you being wrong about one of Spy/DDD (if SSBF flips town)? I don't think Prana or Kise (in particular Kise), would consider doing such a thing. Most people would agree that if anyone doubled up it would be me or Spy. When designing this game with Spy, we both agreed that it was probably game over if scum risked 2/3 of their team on that strategy. It's like scum claiming masons together in a normal game. It's just too risky to work. And when you give the town 6-8 PR's for the price of doubling up, I can assure you anyone who thought about the consequences just a little bit, didn't double-up.

You've confused me massively, I'm talking solely about draft-number order rather than role-order. I don't find role order to be that much to work with since mafia could simply claim that they attempted to get something different from what they really did. For instance LLD or Quadz could have gone for 3-Shot RB rather than tracker.

Mafia know that there's a massive likelihood of town also doubling up on numbers therefore mafia doubling up which puts 2/3 of their scumteam roughly in the middle to lower order of the draft which still means they have the ability to attain decent roles as well as avoiding suspicion in regards to their number picks.

Is what you're attempting to say that you don't believe mafia had none of their 3 members on 1? Is that the entirety of the argument you're putting forward?

[Hoopla]

I'm solely talking about draft-numbers too.

The argument I'm putting forward is, that scum deliberately doubling up, could at best, hope for a 9th/10th place pick from their numbers, with a strong chance of coming dead last. Whilst the chances of town doubling up with each other is likely, and will happen more than once, it's increasingly likely that the scum double-up will cluster with another townie or two, solidifying the likelihood of finishing last. If scum can expect that the number they double on matches one other townie, town needs 3 or 4 townies all to double-up on a separate number to give them a mid/mid-low pick.

There are 8 possible roles in the game, and giving yourself one good chance of netting a role isn't going to be worth going up against 6 or 7 town roles no matter how unlikely your positioning is.

Which is likelier; NO scum (three townies) picked 1? TWO scum picked 6?

Given you're arguing (or at least you should be arguing) from a town perspective, you'd declare from your PoV, that 2 of LLD/Zito/Faraday are scum. I don't see how you can possibly think that's likelier than no scum being in the 1's. The only other explanation is two of Kise/Prana/quadz/Hoopla being scum. How do you rank that idea? Less or more likely than a scum double-up in the 6's?

[animorpherv1]

Hold on folks. I'm replacing in for SSBF.

If their are any questions you wanted to ask him, or have any new questions for him but he never answered or whatever, let me know, from what he's said in the team QT I'll do my best to respond.

I have also requested all of the sent PMs.

[Hoopla]

Interesting...

Have you read any of the game, ani? How long will it take you?

[animorpherv1]

I've skimmed the thread every once and a while.

Reading the thread itself, considering that it's 1 AM and I'm on my DSi, I'll read later today, when I have a chance.

The reading will be one of the first things I'll do, aside from anyupdates in my Mish Mash.

Since I'm planning on reading through this entire thread, It'll take several hours from then while I read all 40 pages, instead of the 10 most recent. I feel that the mechanic will be understood better if I read through the entire thread.

[Faraday]

Any reason you've not been following along...what with your game ended and all?

[Hoopla]

I've skimmed the thread every once and a while.

Reading the thread itself, considering that it's 1 AM and I'm on my DSi, I'll read later today, when I have a chance.

The reading will be one of the first things I'll do, aside from anyupdates in my Mish Mash.

Since I'm planning on reading through this entire thread, It'll take several hours from then while I read all 40 pages, instead of the 10 most recent. I feel that the mechanic will be understood better if I read through the entire thread.

Claim your role.

[Regfan]

Welcome Ani.

First of we need to make sure we're talking about the same thing, when I state doubling up I purely mean their first number being the same, not both. I believe scum doubling up on their first number would consider themselves likely to be placed between 6-8 which isn't optimal placing sure, but it isn't harmful placing either and with their other scum member choosing a number that will likely place them in draft spots 1-5 I'm sure they wouldn't have an issue with it at all. That leads me to believe as stated earlier that if scum did double up in their first numbers either (1,3), (2,2) or (3,1) are their likely partners. I believe it's far more likely that two scum choose 6 than one choose (1,1) I can't say the same for (1,3) though because that feels like mafia taking the safe guarenteed middle of the draft slot. Given this player list and the amount of aggresive players in it I believe mafia had to account for players egos forcing them to take (1,1) thus they would believe there's at least one town going for it and avoid it as much as they can.

Personally I don't believe there's two scum in Kise/Prana/Hoopla/Quadz personally however that's not due the draft order or number order merely my disbelief in both Kise/Quadz being scum slotted with my town-read on yourself and Prana. From a numbers perspective I can understand how two scum in this pool would make a lot of sense but in this particular instance I would rather trust my reads over the number speculation because even if there is two scum in this pool, there would still have to be one elsewhere either in (1,3) or the (6's)

[animorpherv1]

Also, I have never played a bankable deadlines game, so an explanation on how that works would be great.

I haven't been following along mainly because SSBF was consistently saying that he was going to catch up, and he would post one big content post with everything. That, as far as I know, never really ended up happening, and he requested replacement, so I'm filling in.

I think that it would be best if I ISO SSBF right now to see where you guys are coming from.

I'm a VT. I haven't gotten my PMs yet, so I can hopefull expand in greater detail when I get it.