Time Travel Mafia (Game Over)

[Tasky]

LYNCHCOUNT 2.4:

LYNCH (5/8): Tragedy, GhostWriter, GreyICE, Kcdaspot, RedCoyote
NO LYNCH (7): MrTrow, Maxous, imaginality, smargaret, Amrun, Exe, C-Worl

With 12 alive it takes 8 "LYNCH"-votes to reach Nomination-Phase.
Deadline for D2 Discussion is 28.05.2011, 22:00 CET

[MrTrow]

really busy with a project a.t.m.

however i have a question or 2:

Amrun, care to explain:
You (a town-PR) leave breadcrumbs to someone (RC)(considering town wouldn`t want to give scum hints, a probable townread)
Yet you call him out on not pointing out finding your breadcrumbs.

WHY would town-RC (or any townie for that matter) point out having found a town-PR?

Exe: about the motivation thing.
Are you saying zinger self-voted because he was scum (thus his intention was to deny town information)
But when it turned out he(a claimed VT) was on the block(where he put himself) with Kcda(a claimed 'confirmable town powerrole'), he decided to throw out everything that he could possibly have gained by his self-vote in an attempt to lynch the confirmable-power over the vt who has stated his lynch will help town?

[smargaret]

At least Amrun got the right track on Smargaret.

Right now it's Amrun/DB/Ranger/Kcd for me, the last three may shift some.

1. Amrun
2. DB/Mist
3.
4. Ranger
5. KCD
6. Chrono
7. Grey

Funny how Mist suddenly gets into the list.

This is explained in the bit that you quoted right below ...

I find it amusing (read: scummy) that Mist pops in, posts fluff, votes to lynch, and doesn't provide a list or ask any sort of question. Also, the two questions she's asked have not been followed up on at all - there's definitely something going on as far as Mist not contributing. The reason she and DB are tied for second is because I have more to go on from DB (so I'm more confident in my read), and a DB flip would be more informative in terms of connections than a Mist flip, but Mist is slightly more likely to be scum (very slightly, IMO, but Mist has done more scummy things - I just can't be as certain that they're legitimately scum-motivated and not Mist being Mist) and I haven't figured out which way the balance should tip.

I find it real amusing that Smarg provides a list AFTER Mist comes in.
I see no 'Motives'... Ahem, 'Why' they should be lynched...
Although Smarg marks Amrun as top scum read, where the hell is the good reason?

The list was a formalization of things I'd been saying the whole day long. It should have been perfectly obvious why I was more suspicious of some people than others without having to spell it out - nobody else did, in fact, so why am I the only one scummy for it? This is either confirmation bias or a manufactured case.

Why is when I posted a list relevant? Time meta comes down to a bunch of things, from when someone is online, what time zone you live in, whether you're checking in from a phone or actually have access to a computer ... time meta just sucks as an argument, and I don't see you explaining how that's even scummy.

The "good reason" for Amrun as top scum read was the SAME ONE I'D BEEN GOING ON ABOUT ALL DAY LONG - namely, the interactions with KCD.

Amrun - scum 101 is to find a townie being wagoned hard and say "Gee, I don't think X is scum, I think they're town." Then you get bonus points when X is inevitably lynched and flips town - you weren't on the wagon, in fact you were against it. You certainly fit the "wagoned hard" part of the definition, and if you flip town, then the whole scenario fits.

This only reason came AFTER she keeps saying Amrun is the top scum tell. Really. At least we get the reason.. WAY after you keep saying she's scum...

Again, I don't see how this is scummy. And it wasn't the only/first time I gave a reason for Amrun scum.

Then, smarg comes in and says Zinger's so scummy without any reason as well. Along with Chronopie.
How the hell imaginality came into the scums list?
How the hell Maxous fails to make up for Chronopie, although he's actually doing a bit better than him?

Why did you originally call back the "AMRUN/KCD" scum tell earlier?

I just noticed smarg never really mentioned myself. -Gulp-

Trying to read.

1. Zinger committed the Amished tell. Is that not reason enough? And Chronopie was fluff posting.

2. Can you point out the Imaginality thing please? And please either leave the quote intact or provide a post number.

3. Chronopie was scummy. Maxous came in as a replacement, and his behavior was mildly scummy. Combine that with Chronopie being scummy, and you don't have someone scummy for flaking, you have a scummy playerslot. You know what we do with scummy playerslots? We lynch them.

4. There is scum in that exchange with Amrun and KCD. I've gone back and forth on where/how many, but I do believe that exchange wasn't TvT. I don't want it lost/overlooked.

Amrun looks even worse after that explanation - I only knew about her town PR in [redacted], which she didn't address. Can we lynch her please?

[GreyICE]

Okay, I've decided that if I'm going to stay in this game I owe you slightly more effort than I'm giving it. I will say that the last time I was this unmotivated was in Walking dead, and in that game I had the problem that every single day I had to erase all my town reads and start over from scratch with the assumption that one of them was scum... aka, every day was day 1. The lack of having a single flip to work with leaves me in the same boat here. Well, a similar boat, a strong town read can't become mystery scum overnight, c'est la vie.

Zinger's self-voting is more of a null than people are giving him credit for. Many, many players play the frustrated martyr bit as town. I've seen it too many times to count. OTOH if he knew that he wasn't going to flip, it would be an EXCELLENT time for him to inject some WIFOM into the thread.

For everyone pushing Amrun: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3020678

You basically can't push Amrun AND assume that Zinger was scum, AND assume that the scum knew he'd noflip.

[RedCoyote]

But what if I assume Zinger is town?

[smargaret]

or assume scum didn't know about the no-flip? (ie no janitor)?

[GreyICE]

If we assume Zinger is town, kcdaspot scum starts to look pretty good to me.

If we assume Zinger is scum, and didn't know about the no flip, this game is going to get awfully painful awfully fast. Do we lynch Amrun today? If she flips... oh, she won't, so we don't know if Zinger was scum who thought he was giving a buddy town cred, town attacking scum, or if scum have pushed two mislynches... I don't see the town winning as a possibility.

I don't see scum going down making that sort of case on a buddy in any case. Too much attention drawn to them. Zinger scum = Amrun town, 90% certainty.

[Exe]

I still say C-Worl should be at the top of people's lists. I don't know why he's getting a free pass when GreyICE is somehow obvscum to people.

I don't agree with almost anything RC says. I can't even figure out how to deal with that.

Fuck it.

Vote: Lynch

This game is really frustrating me. No-flip is stupid as all hell.

[Kcdaspot]

Amrun, care to explain:
You (a town-PR) leave breadcrumbs to someone (RC)(considering town wouldn`t want to give scum hints, a probable townread)
Yet you call him out on not pointing out finding your breadcrumbs.

WHY would town-RC (or any townie for that matter) point out having found a town-PR?

reposted for goodposting.

I'd love to see this get answered.

[C-Worl]

Vote: Lynch

MrTrow
smargaret
imaginality
Maxous
GreyICE
Exe
Kcdaspot
GhostWriter
Amrun
Zinge
Tragedy

[GreyICE]

I still say C-Worl should be at the top of people's lists. I don't know why he's getting a free pass when GreyICE is somehow obvscum to people.

I don't agree with almost anything RC says. I can't even figure out how to deal with that.

Fuck it.

Vote: Lynch

This game is really frustrating me. No-flip is stupid as all hell.

For me it's because Doombunny was so very much :goodposting: that I'd hate for him to have been scum.

[C-Worl]

EBWOP

Put RedCoyote under GhostWriter and I meant to put Zinge over Smarg.

[smargaret]

Cworl, please address Amrun's lying about the PR. Actually, please justify ANY of your stances.

[Amrun]

I don't know what supposed power role you are talking about, smargaret. If you tell me, I'll address it. I can't, because you're being cryptic.

Trow: I never wanted RC to point it out. I wanted him to back off and find other suspects for the day, and then maybe revisit me on a later day if necessary. Why are people thinking I wanted him to point it out?

Because RC didn't back off and chose to simultaneously rolefish and keep attacking me, it essentially reversed my town read of him.

[smargaret]

Amrun, you had a town power role in a game that is ongoing that we have both died in. I cannot say any more than that without risking modkill/violating the discussion of ongoing games rule. We haven't been in that many games together, it shouldn't be too hard to find.

[C-Worl]

Amrun, you had a town power role in a game that is ongoing that we have both died in. I cannot say any more than that without risking modkill/violating the discussion of ongoing games rule. We haven't been in that many games together, it shouldn't be too hard to find.

The fuck does this have to do with anything? I'm moving Smarg to the top of my list.

[Kcdaspot]

... i think i unvoted...

VOTE: lynch

Cave Johnson, We're done here.

[Amrun]

Okay, I looked through my "ongoing games" list and I know what game you're talking about.

I totally forgot that game existed, but even so, I replaced into that game, so I could hardly breadcrumb, but that was like the weakest pr ever and totally non-standard. But I'll grant you that. Whatever. It doesn't matter to what I was saying anyway. You're nitpicking and trying to catch me in a lie when it's clear that it's totally irrelevant to what I was talking about. I woudnt say "I've never been scum" when my record shows I have and I wouldn't say "I've never been in this situation with a pr" if my record would show I had. I haven't.

You're focusing on little things that don't matter to the game and I think a townie would be far more interested in my alignment and the possibility of lynching a town PR than nitpicking over dumb shit.

[Kcdaspot]

Grey, what was that post all about after when you said that you were out?

it STILL scares me.

[GreyICE]

I am epically unable to get into this game with no flip. It's very similar to walking dead.

In walking dead, I had to eat all my town reads every day because any of them could be scum.

Here, I have no idea how I'm doing in terms of town and scum reads, because I have no idea where I was yesterday.

I'm going to soldier on, mostly because I realized it wasn't fair to throw anyone else into this, but I seriously just want to see a flip. ESPECIALLY Zinger's.

[C-Worl]

We're still at L1.

[Exe]

No-flip is dumb.

Here is why.

Because rather than being able to scumhunt all of D2, we've spent half the time arguing over whether we scumhunted effectively D1.

Which is stupid.

But whatever, I have my top choice and that at least is enough to see the game progress.

[GhostWriter]

Looks like it'll be Amrun and GI on the chopping block today.

[Kcdaspot]

We're still at L1.

L2.

my vote was still up...

[Kcdaspot]

grey that does nothing for me.