268: Bugsy Malone Mafia - Game over. Mod learns lesson

[chaotic_diablo]

oh man that was stark? whoops, my bad. well then C_D, no offense but it seems all of your information was a little late, by that i mean you gave us only things we could have figured out ourselves. to be truthful, i don't like that you claimed back up cop, am i wrong on this too? only because a cop isn't that important in this ind of game, and if a scum chose to try and be a back up cop, then he could even prove the town-ness of his scum buddies. just playing devil's advocate you know

My information would not have been late if no one had agreed to a mass nameclaim and if Meme hadn't posted her role information after I had told everyone to wait a bit for me to recieve it.

I'll go with Adele's promise plan only if we don't lynch tamuz and I can investigate either broom, Adele, or Pariah.

[Adele]

Who would we lynch, then? MeMe? That wouldn't work.

[Pariah]

Out of all the plans that have been suggested so far, I like none.

I'm on board the for the MeMe lynch, Adele. Her roleclaim is too close to that of a Serial Killers for my liking, and if we're not going on a mason hunt, MeMe > C_D (Tamuz's roleclaim is solid, IMO).

Soooo...

Vote: MeMe

[Pariah]

Unvote: MeMe

Wait, that's too fast.

I need to let MeMe talk first.

[Pariah]

Sorry, I'm being excessively paranoid and internally conflicted over what to do in this game. But, right now, I'll make it clear it is my intention to vote for MeMe.

[Adele]

It's okay, I guess. But how much more information can you hope to get now?

[Pariah]

It's okay, I guess. But how much more information can you hope to get now?

Not a whole lot really. It would be poor manners and poor play to not let someone to defend themselves before actually killing them though.

[Adele]

unvote

[vIQleS]

Vote Count:

Meme - 1 - Fritzler
Broomhead - 1 - Tamuz

4 to lynch

[Adele]

Meme - 1 - Fritzler

sorry, I thought broomhead was voting for MeMe too?

[vIQleS]

I forgive you.

New votecount:

Meme - 2 - Fritzler, broomhead
Broomhead - 1 - Tamuz

4 to lynch

PS. New rule: Votes must be on a new line (my display is quite long and it's too easy to miss votes on the end of a line)

[Fritzler]

Meme - 1 - Fritzler, broomhead

Haha, broomhead doesn't count.

[MeMe]

My information would not have been late if no one had agreed to a mass nameclaim and if Meme hadn't posted her role information after I had told everyone to wait a bit for me to recieve it.

I was

against

the mass name claim and no information you gave had anything to do with my actions -- just my name. What would have been helped had I waited? And, glory be, if I'd have waited until AFTER you gave your information, it would've been "oh, she's just matching her actions to what he said..." So, whatever.

As for no-lynching increasing the ratio of scum actions to town -- we're two for two with our lynches and we're drawn even in actions (making up for the day one no-lynch) since there were no kills last night. I say we're probably in the *best* situation for a no-lynch any town's ever been in on a fourth day in. Basically, lynching WRONG is what the scum wants -- lynching RIGHT is what we want. It's certainly possible we'll lose three pro-town players bam-bam-bam by lynching wrong, vigging wrong, and mafia hitting someone.

And Pariah -- why, exactly, do you suddenly want to vote me? I'm the one who said you're the most powerful of the claimed roles and should be left alive when Adele suggested getting rid of all the power roles. Remember? I'm the one who said that if you're going to be half of the lynching/vigging victims, you MUST be the viggee, not the lynchee to preserve your protection another night. Remember? And make sure to remember that this entire idea of you being on the chopping block comes courtesy of the masonry -- specifically Adele -- NOT me.

Stop and think, man. I don't want you dead

at all

. I prefer to prove myself by offing someone without powers. But, as you said earlier, the masons are kind of running the show right now and my choice is to voice my dissent while, basically, being forced to comply (or be lynched) if none of the other three of you want to come up with a different plan.

One more time: My preferences are no-lynching and me increasing the "town to scum" actions by me excercising my vig ability tonight. I'll gladly take vigging orders from the majority of all players -- not just the trifecta. But there

must

be input before that can possibly happen.

I'm just AMAZED that your intent is to vote ME. If you're sticking with that, fully explain your thought process so that it's on record. Just agreeing with a three-person group that will happily see me dead with no more than an "oops!" tomorrow shouldn't cut it at this point.

[MeMe]

Oh gosh. I'm embarrassed at the grammar/spelling in that post. Typing in shock doesn't become me.

[MeMe]

Also -- just in case it was missed by all (and it seems to have been) --

IF there is a baddie in the masonry and IF that baddie has investigation protection, then the masons being told that they can count on the townieness of their brothers is moot. The mod saying anything other than, basically, "trust your masons" would compromise the role.

And chaotic_diablo mentioned someone double-dealing against Fat Sam. Does ANYONE have information on that? Is this truly in the movie? Does anyone know the name of the role that does that?

[Pariah]

First of all, sorry to shock you and all, but I tend to find people who are emotionally stunned give better reactions. (Stupid smile not being on this board.)

Why? Because from my personal perspective, I see three real choices if the masons are to be excluded. Tamuz, who has claimed Bugsy. Nope, that's straight out. Then, there's C_D and you. You have a claim that could correlate with a SK. You edge him out currently in my thought process.

HOWEVER.

I am not a fan of the current masonery plotting. At all. In fact, I don't like their decisions or plotting. I honestly think they have too much power.

And while I do like that you prefer me not to end up lynched, it doesn't exactly prove you as town aligned.

I do not fully trust the masonery. Let me me make that clear. All of their behavior disturbs me.

Yet, at the same time, I have to wonder about a limited 2 man mason group, and a three man normal mason group. How is that even possible?

Deeply internally conflicted, as I have said in many games past to always trust mason claims, lynching masons=dumb, etc., and now I'm faced with this situation where it seems utterly and totally unlikely.

Then you have the entire group saying they're positive, utterly, for SURE, that they're all town. I'm rather actually suspicious of how they can be so utterly sure. There's no way to really know that.

No, MeMe, my intent is no longer to lynch you at this point, because honestly, I feel too confused to make that kind of decision. My intent right now is to figure out what to do. And right now, I want to lynch a mason. But maybe later, I'll want to lynch someone else. It's all terribly confusing.

[Pariah]

And chaotic_diablo mentioned someone double-dealing against Fat Sam. Does ANYONE have information on that? Is this truly in the movie? Does anyone know the name of the role that does that?

...what if there was a role that appeared to be "So and So" to the other masons, but in reality was the person who stabbed Fat Sam in the back?

[chaotic_diablo]

I was against the mass name claim and no information you gave had anything to do with my actions -- just my name. What would have been helped had I waited?

I'm aware that you were against the nameclaim, as was I. The point was that a mass nameclaim effectively reduced a cop's power. A cop has to actually reveal his investigation before the player actually claimed, otherwise it would look like a hoax. The point Broomhead picked up was the most obvious way to reduce a cop's credibility. I don't like how broomhead used this to blame me for my lack of timing when it's obvious that the entire town messed up as a whole.

And, glory be, if I'd have waited until AFTER you gave your information, it would've been "oh, she's just matching her actions to what he said..." So, whatever.

There's the flaw. Whether I had revealed the information before or after you, one of us is to be blamed. I find the masons to be pretty conceited.

I've read somewhere about this person who was dealing weapons to Fat Sam, but was double dealing with Dandy Dan, which ultimtely lead to Fat Sam's gang being pummeled. I don't quite remember where the site was or if my information is clear. I'll have to spend some time to find it.

[Pariah]

I've read somewhere about this person who was dealing weapons to Fat Sam, but was double dealing with Dandy Dan, which ultimtely lead to Fat Sam's gang being pummeled. I don't quite remember where the site was or if my information is clear. I'll have to spend some time to find it.

That's

HIGHLY

interesting information.

The fact that there's actually possible movie evidence for a possible traitor makes me feel comfortable to make a vote I've wanted to make for a long time.

Vote: Broomhead

[Adele]

The fact that there's actually possible movie evidence for a possible traitor makes me feel comfortable to make a vote I've wanted to make for a long time.

Everyone

has wanted to vote for broomhead for a long time. He's been accused of acting scummy for a long, long time; saying the wrong things at the wrong times. Fritzler and I have spoken with him at night. I'll say it again:

if broomhead's scum he plays very cleverly at night and not very cleverly in the day

.

And can anyone tell me why everyone seems to trust MeMe? Going back to what alexander said on day one:

Tallulah is dead! Why is this good? Well, because she is somewhat "on the fence" character - not really evil, but not really good as well. So, had someone claimed Tallulah, I would not be at all sure they are a townie. But, Tallulah is dead and turned out to be town. With her out of the way, almost all remaining roles are clearly polarized between good and evil.

Then you've got someone (MeMe=Lena) who's only ever bad in the film, claiming bulletproof/vig which is identical, but for alignment, to bulletproof/sk.

I'm not "trying to lead the town" any more than I always was (I'm not shy with my opinions) - or, come to that, any more than MeMe does. She and I, you may have noticed, have been butting heads since day 1. The difference between us now? Her nameclaim isn't indicative of her alignment, while mine is. She can skulk and hide at night or go and kill someone, while I can talk with others who I have seen lots and lots of reasons to trust, and none to distrust.

If MeMe wants to survive today, she has to convince all three other non-masons to vote for a mason - and you guys are playing into that, bigtime. I don't feel lordly or anything right now - highly frustrated, in fact. Well played, MeMe.

[Adele]

Oh, and Fritzler, broomhead, how appropriate do you guys think it would be to disclose more fully the sorts of things we've been discussing at night?

[Tamuz]

Oh Adele, I don't trust Meme, the thing is though not killing her today, if she is scum, will not lose us the game. If the masons are, not lynching one of them will lose us the game.

I don't understand why you have such a hard time putting yourself in our shoes and looking at tht possibility.

[Adele]

Tamuz, what do you mean, "the masons"? You mean all three of us? You believe it's possible that this was a 5-scum game?

[broomhead]

well perhaps there is something you do not know. say we lynch me, everyone wants to. that leaves 6 for the night, MeMe makes her SK, the mafia make their kill, and you never know weather there is something else out there. so lets pretend there were two kills, Tamuz dies, she turns out to be town(just pretending) and adele dies, town also because when you lynched me, you found out i was town. that leaves 4 people left and possibly 2 mafia, and a Sk..or vig, only one way to find out... and then one town doc. then lets take into account if there is an unknown factor, a mafia doc, author killer or someone we think is town ie doc or cop, turns out to be mafia(not saying that is, just saying its a possibility.)

i am just saying you have more of a chance winning by trusting the masons

[chaotic_diablo]

I find it hard to trust the masons due to the arrogance they've been displaying as of late. It's true that they are part of protown, but that doesn't mean they can forcibly make everyone else do what they want. I'm guessing this is the main problem that's causing a great amount of resistance.

@Pariah, could you reveal your night results? If we've had two kills a night, it's probable that you got lucky and blocked most of them, although I highly doubt it.